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echoMateria posted:Solitare mode has you trying to beat your own score in a chill out way, doesn't have dummy players to compete. How would that work? I haven't played Caverna, but I was under the impression there was almost no randomness involved. Wouldn't the game basically be over after you ran the numbers and came up with an optimal strategy?
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Oct 16, 2014 14:55
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pumpinglemma posted:How would that work? I haven't played Caverna, but I was under the impression there was almost no randomness involved. Wouldn't the game basically be over after you ran the numbers and came up with an optimal strategy? You could do that, yes, but as there are over 40 different buildings it would take a long time. The rulebook also says that solitaire mode is recommended as a way to learn the buildings and game mechanics rather than a game in and of itself.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:30
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Had a board game night on Tuesday. I'm usually the board game guy in my group so I bring/have all of the games and know the rules. One of my players decided he wanted to play some games more like the stuff he wanted and I told him to go ahead. He really likes theme and isn't very competitive/strategic so outside of co-ops my collection wasn't too far up his alley. He brought Winter Tales and Braggart. I brought Walk the Plank for filler plays and King's Forge to finish out the night. Winter Tales is never really about winning, or even really playing. You play cards with pictures that you interpret into a story to move, attack, and resolve quests. Five crudely drawn circles can be seeds or bullets or whatever. Some of these you have to get very creative with because a picture of a mermaid is a picture of a mermaid. It really comes down to playing more cards than the other player to win scenes and making sure you don't spend too many of them so you can win future scenes. Players are divided into 3 groups: The Winter team, the Spring team, and one player is the story Storyteller who has a character on both teams, they win if the game ends in a tie between Winter and Spring. The game is neat. That is the best I can give it. The more you know about games the less fun the game can be because it becomes a card counting exercise. It is one of those games that you know will get less fun as you play it. You will always have to find new players to keep it interesting because after 2 plays it exhausts itself unless you spaced it out and played it once a year or something. Box says 3-7 players, you need at least 5 players or don't bother. Also the $50 price is bullshit, you could do this game with just cards. If it were 2-3 decks it could fit in a silverline box and be closer to $25. It would also gain portability which would make it more likely to get played. In Braggart you make a play of 2-4 cards that tells a story of a quest you're bragging about, players can draw cards or play actions to swap cards from your play with lesser cards from their hand. After all the players have finished their turns the player with the highest value story takes all the cards into their victory pile for points. all other players may take 1 card from their story as points. It plays like a standard entry level card game like Poo, Munchkin, or Flapjacks and Sasquatches. If it weren't for the humor the game would be pretty flat. As it is though it makes for a good filler, that is if you use half the deck instead of playing until the entire thing runs out like it says. Walk the Plank is a straight up take that slugfest and it was the favorite of the night. Players move their pirates around the 1-4 in-a-row tiles trying to push each other off one of the edges. It is just like Get Bit in that you always have to make your plays based off what you think your opponent may be doing. Otherwise your actions may not do anything or worse you put yourself in a bad spot because they aren't where you thought they were. You set 3 cards like shove, pull, move or retract planks as your actions. Then each player resolves their first card then second and so on. It is like a combination of Get Bit and Robo Rally. King's Forge is more like Kingsburg than Alien Frontiers. You use dice as currency to but more dice of varying values, reds are worth more than greens etc., then you can roll those dice to get the required colors and numbers to build items. First to build 4 wins. You have to strike a balance between using your dice to buy more dice and abilities or saving them for the crafting phase (any spent dice that turn are not used then.). Dice as resources is a trait I really like. I seek out any game that does it like Yspahan or any of the other games mentioned in this paragraph. The art is great and the components are very nice.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:57
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I got Tragedy Looper, I'm reading through the rules, and I have a question. When something says [Loss Condition: Loop End] does that mean the loop ends immediately when it happens, or that it's only checked at the end of the loop? Like, in "A Place To Protect", if the Key Person dies the Protagonists lose instantly, but when 2 Intrigue shows up on the School, nothing happens until the end of the last day, when the Mastermind reveals the Protagonists have lost? The Time Traveler's loss condition seems to be the same thing, but it's written very differently.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:49
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Glazius posted:I got Tragedy Looper, I'm reading through the rules, and I have a question. Read it using the same syntax as, say, [Mandatory: Day End]. The bit after the colon is when the trigger is checked. So yeah, "A Place to Protect" checks for the loss at the end of the final day of the loop.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:05
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pumpinglemma posted:How would that work? I haven't played Caverna, but I was under the impression there was almost no randomness involved. Wouldn't the game basically be over after you ran the numbers and came up with an optimal strategy? Yeah, solo caverna was solved on BGG like a couple of weeks after release, and the answer was 'infinity points'. Then it became 'how many points can you get to add to your infinity, and I think the answer might have been 'infinity again'. There are some slightly hinky buildings in caverna. But it's a fantastic game and even if you own and love the 'gric, you should buy it and play it because it's so loving much better.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:35
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silvergoose posted:Hey, you've found the only good zombie game! (well and Mall) Woohoo! I only grabbed it after the feedback on dead of winter changed from excited to bleh.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:06
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Might be getting some sweet Terra Mystica + Expansion love soon if my friend that went there has done good 
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Oct 16, 2014 23:11
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Is there another "wizards + railroads" game out there that isn't Iron Dragon? A friend of mine insists that there is one, or an upcoming one was announced. I either want to play that game, or declare him insane with confidence.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:47
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I played Railways of the World or some such tonight and I, for the first time in my life, was mad at a board game. Or maybe the group. Either way, it was a dull Euro and that was fine, and I made all the worst choices and I figured my only choice was to go for the longshot 20 point super long route to even hope to compete. Playing with 6 players, after 3h of gameplay, I am just about to finish the route and another player beats me to it by one round. I can't block him from doing it as much as I try. Everyone says "oh, that's too bad, that sucks" and I just want revenge on this player who hosed me so I say I want to just spend the rest of the game giving other people points since there is no way I can accomplish anything but dead last. Anyways, turns out I'll be an "rear end in a top hat" if I "ruin the game for everyone else" by doing this. Wasting 3h of my life in a dumb game and I can't take spite-based actions? I'm not really mad at the player who cut me off and took the points, but I'm upset I'm not allowed to act out of spite. I think I need to stick either to games either where I am allowed to mess with other players or maybe ones that don't take 3h and are drier than saltines. Or find a group that doesn't mind me desiring revenge.
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Oct 17, 2014 08:19
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Don't be that guy, EvilChameleon!
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Oct 17, 2014 08:36
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Railways of the World always screws me up to play because I always instinctively make a branching system trying to quickly connect as many cities as I can. And then I remember that long lines are better than interconnectivity in that game, and earn no points.
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Oct 17, 2014 09:24
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Lichtenstein posted:Don't be that guy, EvilChameleon!  ' is really dumb.
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Oct 17, 2014 09:50
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EvilChameleon posted:I played Railways of the World or some such tonight and I, for the first time in my life, was mad at a board game. Or maybe the group. Either way, it was a dull Euro and that was fine, and I made all the worst choices and I figured my only choice was to go for the longshot 20 point super long route to even hope to compete. Playing with 6 players, after 3h of gameplay, I am just about to finish the route and another player beats me to it by one round. I can't block him from doing it as much as I try. Everyone says "oh, that's too bad, that sucks" and I just want revenge on this player who hosed me so I say I want to just spend the rest of the game giving other people points since there is no way I can accomplish anything but dead last. Yyyyyyup, that pretty much makes you an rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 17, 2014 09:58
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EvilChameleon posted:Anyways, turns out I'll be an "rear end in a top hat" if I "ruin the game for everyone else" by doing this. Wasting 3h of my life in a dumb game and I can't take spite-based actions? I'm not really mad at the player who cut me off and took the points, but I'm upset I'm not allowed to act out of spite. I think I need to stick either to games either where I am allowed to mess with other players or maybe ones that don't take 3h and are drier than saltines. Or find a group that doesn't mind me desiring revenge. I think there is a difference between dicking someone over as a valid tactic to win the game and personal vendettas against a particular player whether or not it's your best move. The first one will improve the game experience for every player, the second one leads to a bad time for everyone involved. So far my groups have been nice enough to understand that you can be vicious without being mean, so they take any dick move in stride and keep on trucking.
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Oct 17, 2014 10:07
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This is why I dislike games that encourage or just allow for kingmaking. That's what this is, at the bottom of it. Regardless of who's been a dick and who hasn't, just the fact that the game ends up putting someone in a situation where they can't possibly win any more but can make someone else win just annoys me.
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Oct 17, 2014 11:04
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The only games immune from kingmaking are bland multiplayer solitaire euros and stuff like Puzzle Strike where you can only target guy next to you (though arguably you could probably take a dive if you want to kingmake your neighbours). The real answer to the problem is just growing up.
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Oct 17, 2014 11:25
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Games with good catch-up mechanics tend to counteract it, though. A big reason why kingmaking even happens is because you feel you can't win anymore. But if there's even a small chance that you can catch up, I find that most people are much more likely to go for that rather than throw up their hands and give someone else points.
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Oct 17, 2014 11:38
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And, you know, coops and traitor games. And Dixit probably too. But the real issue is whether there are adequate incentives to not kingmake, or, in a less wankery wording, whether you can meaningfully do something for yourself instead of just picking someone else to win.
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Oct 17, 2014 11:41
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You people severely underestimate how easily some people can get butthurt over a game. Ever been targeted since turn 1 because of something you did in the last game?
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Oct 17, 2014 11:57
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Yeah, butthurt people suck. But the more the game punishes you for being a vengeful jerk, the more stupid the jerks will have to be to not do something that actually lets them win. Of course, if I for some reason I have the choice of attacking one of two people, and one guy just won the last game, yeah, I'm going for him if the gain is roughly the same.
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Oct 17, 2014 12:03
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My friend did something like this once. Everyone was pissed, including the winner. It fucks up the whole game. It really has nothing to do with mechanics, it has to do with someone being mature and rational enough to let everyone else have a good time even if they can't win. People who act like babies over a board game really are the worst. topiKal fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 14:03
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I buy the games my group plays and usually they gang up on me because they agree having read the rules before them gives me an edge. Lately I've been selecting more co-op stuff or at least games that try to prevent this from happening because it can get real tiring.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:24
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They are just playing the metagame. Game theory dictates that if you become a petty jerk after being hosed over in a game you are less likely to be hosed over in subsequent games. Though it is a fine line between incentivising people to leave you alone and being invited to the next game.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:26
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BioTech posted:I buy the games my group plays and usually they gang up on me because they agree having read the rules before them gives me an edge. Lately I've been selecting more co-op stuff or at least games that try to prevent this from happening because it can get real tiring. Have you any of those games multiple times, to see if they keep beating on you after you lose the first game? I'm curious whether they still target you!
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Oct 17, 2014 14:27
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BioTech posted:I buy the games my group plays and usually they gang up on me because they agree having read the rules before them gives me an edge. Lately I've been selecting more co-op stuff or at least games that try to prevent this from happening because it can get real tiring. Do they do that on repeat plays of games? I mean whenever I bring a new game over, I'm generally the first target in that game for that very reason. However after they have grasped the rules and what it actually takes to win, that typically doesn't happen again. Or you could just embrace your place as the enemy and be the Mastermind in Tragedy Looper 
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Oct 17, 2014 14:35
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Rutibex posted:They are just playing the metagame. Game theory dictates that if you become a petty jerk after being hosed over in a game you are less likely to be hosed over in subsequent games. Though it is a fine line between incentivising people to leave you alone and being invited to the next game. It's the difference between brinksmanship and being an rear end. It helps if you actually make your threat explicit beforehand, for example.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:37
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The only games where I can stand being vindictive like that are highly diplomatic games where the diplomacy is an integral part of the game, and even then I warn people first. For example, I was playing an early era game of Republic of Rome and there was this senator that I needed. Someone had a choice to screw me over by stopping me getting the senator, something that wouldn't help him directly and would expend his precious resources to do it. I warned him that if he went ahead, I would hold an in-game grudge over that. He went ahead, so I made good my promise. We eventually ALL lost because everyone was too busy squabbling to deal with the Carthaginians militarily (the early era scenarios are weighed towards requiring more cooperation and less power-plays). This is still different from playing a euro and then kingmaking because someone took the spot you wanted.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:39
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I usually get targeted by my less nerdy friends, for being the ruthless boardgame guy that knows his poo poo. Which is perfectly fine, as it's a legit and sensible decision (it is a fact I'd probably whoop their asses when left to my own devices). The pressure also usually lightens at some point when/if someone gains a noticeable edge. That's a good kind of metagame. Rutibex posted:They are just playing the metagame. Game theory dictates that if you become a petty jerk after being hosed over in a game you are less likely to be hosed over in subsequent games. This, however, is a Rutibex kind of metagame.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:40
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silvergoose posted:Have you any of those games multiple times, to see if they keep beating on you after you lose the first game? I'm curious whether they still target you! Madmarker posted:Do they do that on repeat plays of games? I mean whenever I bring a new game over, I'm generally the first target in that game for that very reason. However after they have grasped the rules and what it actually takes to win, that typically doesn't happen again. Yeah, it happens on repeat plays. Catan for example was impossible since each round started with everyone agreeing to a boycot on trading with me, no matter what I offer or what they need. Have fun using docks exclusively. It really messed up more than a few games, but the usual reply is that they don't necessarily want to win as long as I don't win. It was frustrating, but now it just means we play stuff like Space Alert. Hard to be grumpy about that.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:49
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Yeah, sounds like the right move; never, ever, ever play any game that's not coop with that group, and find another group to play competitive games with. Awful people, though, can you talk to some of them individually and tell them it's not cool and they're being asses? And that you winning is not actually a horrible thing?
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Oct 17, 2014 14:53
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Rutibex posted:They are just playing the metagame. Game theory dictates that if you become a petty jerk after being hosed over in a game you are less likely to be hosed over in subsequent games. Though it is a fine line between incentivising people to leave you alone and being invited to the next game. There is no line. That kind of behavior is acceptable in an competitive environment, where placing higher in a series of games matter. Anyone who plays the metagame in a friendly, casual environment can kindly go find the loving door.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:53
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I played Wolfhawk from the Lost Legion expansion for Mage Knight last night and I can safely say she's the first hero I've played where I felt like I've had enough movement. Maybe even too much movement. Her ability tiles definitely feel pretty weak to me, especially compared to Tovak's (who I usually play) fantastic ones. I lucked out getting her tile that lets me add 2 to any card that gives Attack pretty early, that was a definite bonus. I'm gonna try and wrangle up a game against Volkare tonight, should be pretty fun.
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Oct 17, 2014 15:02
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panascope posted:I played Wolfhawk from the Lost Legion expansion for Mage Knight last night and I can safely say she's the first hero I've played where I felt like I've had enough movement. Ostensibly Wolfhawk hits a little behind everyone else - one of her foci is on not using units, which kind of sucks in a game where having units is Really loving Important. Tirelessness is definitely real good, I admit, though ideally everyone needs to pick up a little extra move as they go through the game. She has some astounding skills, but only a couple. Know Your Prey lets you ignore a single offensive/defensive/resistance ability off a monster each round, which tends to be really loving critically important when it's needed. Her coop/competitive skill allows her a sideways for +4+1 per empty unit slot she has, also amazing. Stelas fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 15:14
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Just play Intrigue it almost requires that you screw people over and act like a dick, problem solved. Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 15:39
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BioTech posted:I buy the games my group plays and usually they gang up on me because they agree having read the rules before them gives me an edge. Lately I've been selecting more co-op stuff or at least games that try to prevent this from happening because it can get real tiring. Are you me?
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Oct 17, 2014 16:21
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echoMateria posted:Are you me?
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Oct 17, 2014 16:22
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Rutibex posted:They are just playing the metagame. Game theory dictates that if you become a petty jerk after being hosed over in a game you are less likely to be hosed over in subsequent games. Though it is a fine line between incentivising people to leave you alone and being invited to the next game. You won't be invited back, so nope you won't be hosed over either. Win-win! I don't run day care for five year olds, sorry.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:35
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Tekopo posted:We are all one, all part of the TGBG hivemind. Tekopo revealed as also being Rutibex.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:42
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Lorini posted:You won't be invited back, so nope you won't be hosed over either. Win-win! x1000 times this. I am constantly perplexed that people continue to allow petty shitlords into a gaming group. It's no different than any other social activity; if you're going to be a prick who brings everybody else down, don't expect to keep getting invited.
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