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The Razorjack/Ripper is a great Unreal series weapon and it's honestly really sad that it was way too easy to spam and get easy DM kills so they axed it instead of tweaking it. edit: Someone was talking about Sin and nGlide, yeah it makes the controls a bit looser than is normal for Quake 2 games. If you have an ATI card you can enable default OpenGL, but for Nvidia you have to either use Glide or Software. Karasu Tengu fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 16:28
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I learned a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCPJGt3m_v8
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Oct 14, 2014 23:25
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I could listen to that guy's voice all day. "THY FLESH CONSUUUUUMED."
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Oct 15, 2014 00:02
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I could listen to that guy's voice all day. "THY FLESH CONSUUUUUMED." On his own channel he's basically an American version of Pewdiepie, but when he's restrained and working from a script? Dude has a fantastic voice.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:16
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I was pretty disappointed to learn about this:
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Oct 15, 2014 00:36
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Besides the biodome in Opposing Force, the other thing that I really vividly remember is the pitch black sewer section...creeping through the dark with a pair of nightvision goggles and an M249 SAW, hunting those goddamned monstrous voltigores. That ranks up there as one of the tensest moments in the Half-Life games (for me).
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Oct 15, 2014 00:42
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Bouchacha posted:I was pretty disappointed to learn about this: Why? Doom was constructed in a garage by metal fan d&d nerds who copied stuff they love into their masterpiece. It's a great part of the story.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:54
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Amethyst posted:Why? Doom was constructed in a garage by metal fan d&d nerds who copied stuff they love into their masterpiece. It's a great part of the story. Hell, the damage calcuations are even D&D dice-roll based.  This explains why the berserk fist is such a crapshoot, too. It can do everything from 20 to 200 damage.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:20
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Please stop, my mind can only be blown so many times per page
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Oct 15, 2014 01:21
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Besides the biodome in Opposing Force, the other thing that I really vividly remember is the pitch black sewer section...creeping through the dark with a pair of nightvision goggles and an M249 SAW, hunting those goddamned monstrous voltigores. That ranks up there as one of the tensest moments in the Half-Life games (for me). No kidding, if I recall (I haven't played OF since 2000) the sewer was a maze and that thing was chasing you and was instant death if it caught you. I actually had to get a map of that level to get out because I kept running into it. Amethyst posted:Why? Doom was constructed in a garage by metal fan d&d nerds who copied stuff they love into their masterpiece. It's a great part of the story. Quake was originally supposed to be based on a D&D campaign the iD guys were doing during Doom's development.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:35
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Justin Godscock posted:No kidding, if I recall (I haven't played OF since 2000) the sewer was a maze and that thing was chasing you and was instant death if it caught you. I actually had to get a map of that level to get out because I kept running into it. It wasn't quite instakill, but (on the harder difficulties) their attacks were really devastating--like a supercharged Vortigaunt attack--and even their goddamned corpses could kill you because they automatically detonated in an electrical explosion. There was a whole nest of them down there in the dark, and they took a substantial amount of damage before dying. Like...3 or 4 times the health of one of Half-Life's alien grunts. I think they had 500 HP on "hard".
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Oct 15, 2014 01:46
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Is the texture mod for Marathon built into Aleph One now? It's been so long since I've played it I'm having a hard time telling if this is how it looked the last time or not. I know this comes up roughly once every 2 weeks but I really wish there was a gzdoom-style source port for Marathon. I always end up abandoning my playthroughs because Aleph One feels weird.
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Oct 15, 2014 19:39
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Turn vsync off, or play with a controller. Yes, the HD texture pack from Marathon 2 XBLA is included with the data files for the two games they fit on now.
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Oct 15, 2014 19:42
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Amethyst posted:Why? Doom was constructed in a garage by metal fan d&d nerds who copied stuff they love into their masterpiece. It's a great part of the story. Using D&D as inspiration should be assumed of Carmack and Romero and co. They were ultranerds. But straight up stealing licenced artwork? Id really got away with murder, since games were a nothing industry at that point and nobody cared what they did. Finding out that the caco was stolen art really bummed me out, just like realizing that half the doom soundtrack is just midi versions of metallica/slayer/pantera/etc Its cool if you emulate existing metal, and some of the songs do, but others are just straight-up copies and that's bullshit. For most of the monsters they did clay models and photographed them, for the caco they just clipped somebody else's art. That's lame. At least make a clay model of the cacodemon, even if you're directly copying the design, and use the digitized picture of the clay model, not the original artwork. Because if you used Id's music or artwork now without paying or attributing, they'd sue the poo poo out of you. (Or rather Bethesda would) Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 22:46
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It's a horned monster with a creepy face. Although it's similar to the cacodemon, I think you would have a hard time convincing someone that it's stolen. For one thing the caco has no arms, legs, etc. Also they built their own clay models and photographed them to create the sprites. Inspired by the monster manual? Sure. Stolen from the monster manual? No. edit: The horns, teeth, etc. don't even really match the monster manual version. Also they had to do a lot more to add all the different angles, etc. that aren't shown in the monster manual cover. 
mod sassinator fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 22:52
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It's very inspired by that, I'm pretty sure one of them said that exact book was the inspiration for the Cacodemon. However, there wasn't a sprite sheet of the super beholder there that they scanned and knocked the arms and legs off, they made their own sprites and poo poo.
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Oct 16, 2014 22:58
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It's a straight up trace, don't even act like they didn't steal it. It's also the best monster design in the game.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:23
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DiscoMouse posted:It's a straight up trace, don't even act like they didn't steal it. The horns and teeth don't match at all, it's not a trace. I'm not saying it's not related or a direct inspiration, but if it were truly stolen I'm pretty sure WoTC would have gone after id long ago for a slice of the hundreds of millions of dollars that Doom generated.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:29
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I'm so confused by the statement "the horns and teeth" don't match. Uh, they do. Here it is superimposed with some transparency. The only real difference is the angle of the mouth and some slight scale differences, but otherwise it's almost a near-identical trace job.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:04
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Who was negatively affected in any way, shape, or form by the tracing of the D&D pic?
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Oct 17, 2014 02:07
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It's not a trace: I don't know what else to tell you if you think it was traced from the D&D image. It's stretched differently, the horns are different, the teeth are different, there are different features on the chin.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:11
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mod sassinator posted:It's not a trace: It's not traced but to claim it's anything less than REALLY heavily influenced by it is self-delusion.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:15
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It is a trace, obviously. But the the the fact that Doom is partially a collage of other works - in particular, nerd media for misfits -to me, is interesting and marks it in time. It was a moment in history when games were a nothing industry made by enthusiasts in garages. It's a part of what makes Doom unique.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:16
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They still had to draw the other sides and the butthole, as well as animations. Also isn't all content of the shareware episode + code to execute freeware at this point?
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Oct 17, 2014 02:20
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Dewgy posted:It's not traced but to claim it's anything less than REALLY heavily influenced by it is self-delusion. Sure, but I'm not denying it's heavily influenced from D&D. Just that any kind of copyright or infringement claim would never hold up in court. quote:They still had to draw the other sides and the butthole, as well as animations. It's free to play but not in the public domain. id software still owns the copyright on all the content of the shareware episode, so you can't pull the images out, put them on a t-shirt, and try to sell it.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:25
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mod sassinator posted:Sure, but I'm not denying it's heavily influenced from D&D. Just that any kind of copyright or infringement claim would never hold up in court. Wow that's really interesting and definitely the most pertinent angle to discuss
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Oct 17, 2014 02:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzLqwYvWCJE
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Oct 17, 2014 02:32
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Zaphod42 posted:Using D&D as inspiration should be assumed of Carmack and Romero and co. They were ultranerds. If a few nerds in the early 90s cribbing stuff for their weird shareware game "really bums you out" maybe you're overthinking it. That was the 90s gaming scene for you, and obviously things are different now. Anyway, I'm off to play Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oww7oB9rjgw
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Oct 17, 2014 02:39
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Amethyst posted:Why? Doom was constructed in a garage by metal fan d&d nerds who copied stuff they love into their masterpiece. It's a great part of the story. On this subject, every fan of early FPS games owes it to themselves to read Masters of Doom if they haven't already. It's a fantastic story that's entertaining the whole way through. And it's only $12 on Amazon! http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Culture/dp/0812972155 I'm sure most people here have read it, but if you haven't you really should. The technology vs design i.e. John Carmack vs Tom Hall sections are particularly cool and really hammer down why Doom and Quake are the games they are. Cribbing the Caco design from a D&D manual fits with early 90's id perfectly.
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Oct 17, 2014 03:47
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I don't think it's wrong to steal art or even heavily inspire yourself from it. Even as a lawyer, I wish there were no intellectual property rights. I was just mildly disappointed to see that the Cacodemon design that I hold so dear was 95% someone else's idea and work.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:16
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mod sassinator posted:It's not a trace: After you finish tracing it, you go back and change a few details to make it look a little different. Also its pixel art so a trace isn't going to translate perfectly, you're going to go dither some colors and stuff. That does not remotely excuse plagiarism. Its still 100% plagiarism. That's what matters. Traced, influenced, whatever; what matters is its illegal. Otherwise plagiarism wouldn't exist. I changed a few words! I moved a few pixels! Is not an acceptable defense. If you traced the pinky demon and then changed its horns you'd still get sued by Bethesda. Id is lucky they and TSR were both too small to get into the kind of legal bullshit we have happen all the time now. Bouchacha posted:I don't think it's wrong to steal art or even heavily inspire yourself from it. Even as a lawyer, I wish there were no intellectual property rights. I was just mildly disappointed to see that the Cacodemon design that I hold so dear was 95% someone else's idea and work. I do really believe that fair use should be stronger than it is, remixes and stuff are actually pretty cool. And its not like any artist exists in a void, we all have influences. I just don't like the inherent hypocrisy of profiting on others' work and then not allowing them to do the same from yours. Carmack has always been really free with the code that he writes, but its just him and just the code. It'd be nice to see them open up some of the other assets too; who cares? GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:If a few nerds in the early 90s cribbing stuff for their weird shareware game "really bums you out" maybe you're overthinking it. That was the 90s gaming scene for you, and obviously things are different now. I think you misunderstand. I'm not crying in a corner or refusing to play doom because it uses stolen art. I love doom, its a great game regardless. I'm just sad that game developers now exist in such a tightly restricted and litigated environment, when it used to be the wild west  And the same people who got rich off that wild west period are now the gatekeepers.
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 16:40
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Can we stop acknowledging Zaphod42, the worst poster on SA, and let this derail die? This thread owns and this whining about plagiarism is pointless.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:55
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He's not whining, it's an interesting topic, it's most definitely true that the design is plagiarised, and you're weirdly defensive about it. Full disclosure I love DOOM
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Oct 17, 2014 17:08
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titaniumone posted:Can we stop acknowledging Zaphod42, the worst poster on SA, and let this derail die? This thread owns and this whining about plagiarism is pointless. Sorry about that, we now return to your regularly scheduled bitching about brutal doom. 
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Oct 17, 2014 17:31
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Zaphod42 posted:After you finish tracing it, you go back and change a few details to make it look a little different. Also its pixel art so a trace isn't going to translate perfectly, you're going to go dither some colors and stuff. Ok if we want to go down that slippery slope, then why aren't we crucifying the D&D monster manual artists for stealing their designs from other sources? I mean, the super beholder is just a ripoff of Harryhausen's cyclops from the 50's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25GLhEo8ZgE They traced it and added more horns & teeth! I guarantee more stuff in the monster manual is ripped off other classic monsters from literature and movies. If Doom ripped off a ripoff, then what?
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Oct 17, 2014 18:33
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mod sassinator posted:I don't know what else to tell you if you think it was traced from the D&D image. It's stretched differently
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Oct 17, 2014 19:06
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Linguica posted:Stretch the Caco image by 20% vertically and get back to us (16:10 to 4:3 correction) That doesn't make any sense, the id guys had 20" or so CRT monitors for their NeXT workstations that were all 4:3 aspect ratio.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:35
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Seriously you guys want to think the image is a direct trace from the monster manual, even when there's an entire sprite sheet of images that were created at different angles and poses? Why would they trace one head on image when they're already building the models, photographing them, digitizing them, and cleaning them up so they can get all the angles. They traced the one head on image? Seriously!?
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Oct 17, 2014 19:38
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mod sassinator posted:That doesn't make any sense, the id guys had 20" or so CRT monitors for their NeXT workstations that were all 4:3 aspect ratio. Yes but Doom runs at a 16:10 pixel ratio, stretched to 4:3 on the display. It's why direct rips of cacodemons, explosions, etc. look squashed: They're drawn that way so that when they were rendered on the target hardware they'd be correctly round.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:43
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