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EoRaptor posted:Previous 'new' balance systems have not fared well, so I don't think skepticism (mine and others) is surprising. There is a lot of work to be done around overcoming historical actions before people relax again. I'm not surprised at all. It's understandable and I hope that some level of trust can be rebuilt as time goes on with those who are skeptical of everything we do.
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Oct 17, 2014 18:45
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Number19 posted:I'm not surprised at all. It's understandable and I hope that some level of trust can be rebuilt as time goes on with those who are skeptical of everything we do. Tell them Urbanmechs would go a long way to helping out the situation.
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Oct 17, 2014 18:56
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Iron Tusk posted:Tell them Urbanmechs would go a long way to helping out the situation. No it wouldn't.
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Oct 17, 2014 18:57
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make urbanmechs only be able to be hit if you shoot your weapons using MC. Brilliant move: 
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Oct 17, 2014 19:00
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Number19 posted:I'm not surprised at all. It's understandable and I hope that some level of trust can be rebuilt as time goes on with those who are skeptical of everything we do. What'd build my trust would be abandoning garbage like Ghost Heat, "endgame content," and hiring someone to swat Paul on the wrist every time he suggests introducing a complex system to "fix" something that numbers tweaks will fix faster and better. Then giving the numbers a good balance pass to try to give every weapon a viable role. Then you can consider adding quirks to underperformers. Layering complex systems on top of each other to support dev "vision" of how the game "should" be played is the same reason City of Heroes players got really annoyed with their first lead developer, Jack "Statesman" Emmert. Oddly enough, that game got much better after he left and the devs were allowed to start tweaking numbers.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:05
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Iron Tusk posted:Tell them Urbanmechs would go a long way to helping out the situation. I thought y'all really wanted a Tetetae bobblehead.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:19
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Number19 posted:I thought y'all really wanted a Tetetae bobblehead. Urbanmech with Tetatae geometry?  Although seriously I thought the bobblehead was DOA?
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Oct 17, 2014 19:22
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PoptartsNinja posted:Layering complex systems on top of each other to support dev "vision" of how the game "should" be played is the same reason City of Heroes players got really annoyed with their first lead developer, Jack "Statesman" Emmert. Oddly enough, that game got much better after he left and the devs were allowed to start tweaking numbers. Statesman STRIKES FROM THE GRAVE!
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Oct 17, 2014 19:22
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Axe-man posted:Statesman STRIKES FROM THE GRAVE! It was an easy parallel to make, all things considered. PGI's making a lot of the same mistakes. 
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Oct 17, 2014 19:25
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Number19 posted:I'm not surprised at all. It's understandable and I hope that some level of trust can be rebuilt as time goes on with those who are skeptical of everything we do. being a real negative nancy is getting super old so I've decided to give you guys my faith I mean we know how far faith goes in this modern, godless world, but you've got it!
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Oct 17, 2014 19:32
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PoptartsNinja posted:It was an easy parallel to make, all things considered. PGI's making a lot of the same mistakes. The game is clearly too basic and needs more work.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:32
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WarLocke posted:Urbanmech with Tetatae geometry? I have no idea at all. If I were to guess I'd say an Urbanmech is more likely at this point but I don't know anything at all about the upcoming content pipeline so 
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Oct 17, 2014 19:33
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We want a hero raven called the Nevermore with its fluff tagline being "quoth the raven Alt+F4". Is that too much to ask?
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Oct 17, 2014 19:35
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So apparently Russ is leaking more quirks here CN9-D quirks seem underwhelming. Seriously "+20% SRM4 Range"? Only 4-packs?  e: Odds on the '-% (type) laser duration' not scaling/compensating for damage and thus being a nerf to laser damage until a hotfix? WarLocke fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 19:37
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mashed_penguin posted:We want a hero raven called the Nevermore with its fluff tagline being "quoth the raven Alt+F4". Is that too much to ask? The tagline is for sure but I've wanted a Edgar Allen Poe themed Raven for a long time so maybe it will happen eventually if I ask enough.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:39
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WarLocke posted:So apparently Russ is leaking more quirks here The CN9's are all great mech's regardless of the quirks. They're trying to give yo a reason to use that big gun arm. [quote] Staff Moderator 753 posts Posted Today, 10:24 AM Hunchback 4SP - Tier 4 Brawler Additional Armor (RT<) +9 Additional Structure (RT<) +12 SRM/6 Cooldown +20% SRM/6 Range +20% Medium Laser Duration -20% Medium Laser Heat Gen -20%/[quote] Return of the Munchback? Oscar Wilde Bunch fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 19:40
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Iron Tusk posted:The CN9's are all great mech's regardless of the quirks. They're trying to give yo a reason to use that big gun arm. Yeah I'm not saying they aren't. an SRM4-specific quirk though is just cat making sad face. Oh btw here's the new reward CN9-AL
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Oct 17, 2014 19:42
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WarLocke posted:e: Odds on the '-% (type) laser duration' not scaling/compensating for damage and thus being a nerf to laser damage until a hotfix? 100% +25%!
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Oct 17, 2014 19:43
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Iron Tusk posted:The CN9's are all great mech's regardless of the quirks. They're trying to give yo a reason to use that big gun arm. I'm not sure that structure bonus is enough. The new arm doesn't look all that smaller than the old one and going from 48 to 64 total damage before it's gone is a 25% increase but 64 damage is not a lot with the kind of alphas you see people packing. Plus if you try to shove an LB10X in there you are devoting 20%+ of your weight to that arm. Witness a random quirk-centric build I just whipped up in 5 minutes.
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Oct 17, 2014 19:51
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WarLocke posted:I'm not sure that structure bonus is enough. The new arm doesn't look all that smaller than the old one and going from 48 to 64 total damage before it's gone is a 25% increase but 64 damage is not a lot with the kind of alphas you see people packing. lots of quirks here: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/173062-october-road-map/page__p__3827000#entry3827000
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Oct 17, 2014 20:07
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Number19 posted:I'm not surprised at all. It's understandable and I hope that some level of trust can be rebuilt as time goes on with those who are skeptical of everything we do. When I saw this I wanted to write a book in response to this and being a product manager at an IT company I really like that kind of user feedback. What stops me is I don't know if you're forwarding this stuff on or just reading and shaking your head in agreement? Even if you are forwarding this on I have no idea if 'Goon feedback' is thrown into a special category that's used for rear end wiping and laughing. So I'll keep this short. My love of the franchise prompted me to dump a bunch of money into the game, founders, MC, and phoenix etc. Lack of apparent testing and knee jerk fixes that would completely flip the meta or play style is what drove me away. A good example being 'Ghost Heat', I was open to hear how they wanted to fix or balance things and I tried it. Lack of continued development, documentation, clueless responses, invalidation of stock builds, and not trying out other balancing options in a testing environment drove me off. I still read the email updates and occasionally skim the forums but it doesn't seem like the course has changed but I would love to have my opinion changed.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:07
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Super 3 posted:When I saw this I wanted to write a book in response to this and being a product manager at an IT company I really like that kind of user feedback. What stops me is I don't know if you're forwarding this stuff on or just reading and shaking your head in agreement? Even if you are forwarding this on I have no idea if 'Goon feedback' is thrown into a special category that's used for rear end wiping and laughing. So I'll keep this short. I apply my own filter to the feedback and pass it on if I think it's a good idea. Often I'll talk to someone one-on-one about their idea to help refine it a bit and make sure that I understand it before passing it on. I certainly can't and won't promise that a change will be made and it doesn't happen all that often but sometimes a good suggestion will get implemented. I'd say that they get implemented at the about the same rate as any other feedback we get from the community (and before you laugh at that, that rate is definitely higher than "zero"). Most of your specific feedback is well known by this point. The community has made their feelings on all those topics well known. Russ has even commented that he'll have a discussion about Ghost Heat with the community. I don't know when though.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:20
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There is a joke to be made about removing ghost heat and hell freezing over.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:25
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Number19 posted:Russ has even commented that he'll have a discussion about Ghost Heat with the community. I don't know when though. 
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Oct 17, 2014 20:29
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Chronojam posted:There is a joke to be made about removing ghost heat and hell freezing over. The removal of ghost heat will cause hell to hit 0 kelvin and pigs to get wings before freezing and shattering on the ground?
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Oct 17, 2014 20:32
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Number19 posted:Most of your specific feedback is well known by this point. The community has made their feelings on all those topics well known. Russ has even commented that he'll have a discussion about Ghost Heat with the community. I don't know when though. Soon after Community Warfare? 
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Oct 17, 2014 20:37
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PoptartsNinja posted:Soon after Community Warfare? CW Phase 2 is our top priority as Russ has stated several times.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:39
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Number19 posted:I apply my own filter to the feedback and pass it on if I think it's a good idea. Often I'll talk to someone one-on-one about their idea to help refine it a bit and make sure that I understand it before passing it on. I certainly can't and won't promise that a change will be made and it doesn't happen all that often but sometimes a good suggestion will get implemented. I'd say that they get implemented at the about the same rate as any other feedback we get from the community (and before you laugh at that, that rate is definitely higher than "zero"). Would you consider bending a few ears about the possibility of decoupling torso twist speed from engine rating? A lot of times it feels like you 'need' the biggest engine possible not for the speed it provides but for the snappier twisting. If torso twist speed was decoupled from the engine (ie, each mech had a flat twist speed regardless of what engine was in it) then they could also be balanced around their twist speed (this mech is a brawler, give it faster twist; this mech is a sniper/LRM boat, it can live with slow twist, etc).
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Oct 17, 2014 20:58
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WarLocke posted:Would you consider bending a few ears about the possibility of decoupling torso twist speed from engine rating? A lot of times it feels like you 'need' the biggest engine possible not for the speed it provides but for the snappier twisting. DO NOT loving LISTEN TO THIS. You're the reason we can't have nice things. 
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Oct 17, 2014 21:02
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Kazvall posted:DO NOT loving LISTEN TO THIS. A Centurion with a 200 engine twists slower than a Centurion with a 275 engine. Let's just use bullshit numbers and say 20 degrees/sec versus 35 degrees/sec. My suggestion was that Centurions should just all have (again, bullshit pulled-out-of-my-rear end number) 35 degree/sec twist speed no matter what engine they have. I'm not sure why you find it such a bad idea?
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Oct 17, 2014 21:09
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WarLocke posted:I'm not sure why you find it such a bad idea? Someone is probably typing up a novella right now.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:13
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Kazvall posted:Someone is probably typing up a novella right now. Hopefully it won't meander on to cones of fire.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:21
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Kazvall posted:Someone is probably typing up a novella right now. Meh. Twist speed should remain tied to engines, because that's a good choice to make for your builds, and different variants should have different twist speeds, it's a good way to differentiate roles. That's part of why the Truckernaut goes all the way for the 360 engine, to get as twisty and turny as it's possible to be in a fatlas. Variants tagged to make good brawlers should get a higher multiplier on that speed though. AKA an Atlas DDC with a 325 engine might have the same twist speed as an RS with a 350. And the DDC with a 360 will be considerably more maneuverable than the RS with a 360. Etc.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:28
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Iron Tusk posted:All in all I think it was just a subjective look at which mechs people actually play and are determined by the community to be good and which mechs are crapwagons. I think as a first cut approximation it's a sensible way to start balancing. At the least there'll be some fun chaos as the new meta gets worked out.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:23
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Number19 posted:I apply my own filter to the feedback and pass it on if I think it's a good idea. Hey 19, can you ask the programming guys to put the tips/advices the player sees during the loading screens on a timer? Right now they flash randomly, and you might start reading one tip and finish reading another. Something like 5 seconds per tip would be good. Pycckuu fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 22:23
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Russ posted:Keep in mind that having JJ or ECM will remove a quirk - hence why we have two on the Jester Nice. JJ = ECM in the eyes of the  balance gods.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:29
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quote:Keep in mind that having JJ or ECM will remove a quirk - hence why we have two on the Jester It never stops.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:36
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RangerAce posted:Nice. JJ = ECM in the eyes of the You'd have thought that those would already have been considered in the Mech tier list... Or is that a stupid assumption? EDIT I was quite suprised that the Phoenix sale had ~50% of the sale numbers than the Founders packages. I'd have assumed they'd get more people to pay some bucks for the Reseen. Tank Boy Ken fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 22:41
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They'll never remove ghost heat until the population levels fall so low that it's obvious to everyone and by then it's too late. It's probably too late now. It does seem that some people made a lot of money from mwo, so there's still hope that a future dev company will resurrect mechwarrior in ten years or so.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:46
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Tank Boy Ken posted:You'd have thought that those would already have been considered in the Mech tier list... Or is that a stupid assumption? By the time the Phoenix sale went up it was clear that MWO was in terrible hands (the hands of PGI). That it reached 50% at all is a sign of just how badly people want a Mechwarrior game. Hey if there's someone from the dev team in here I got a solution for all your balance woes: It's called MWLL. Play. Look at their weapons. Copy as much as possible, because those guys knew how to make every BT weapon flavorful, balanced and distinctive.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:14
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