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Pierzak posted:Wait, so it's actually unskippable as in "cannot exit to main menu/save new game+", not only for maniacs who want a special achievement for watching a post-credits cameo? Yeah, at least they could throw in a "A spent 30 minutes watching the credits and all I got was this crappy achievement" achievement like some games do. Some of the games do let you exit to menu, but I believe it was on oth the earlier AC games that didn't have a savepoint until after the credits had shown, so if you wanted to try and 100% the game, you'd have to play the endgame again, watch the full credits and only then were you allowed to roam around.
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Oct 18, 2014 12:17
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Ghostlight posted:Actually it repeatedly and very obviously pulls the player out of the game. The Great Oz is shouting at you to ignore the man behind the curtain but you can't because you already know there's no wizard, just a sad old conman. If you didn't know that already, I don't know what to tell you. Not being able to play the game because I don't know if it's worth sitting through a single stretch or if I have to leave it unfinished because the real world still exists certainly distances me more from it than being able to play it at my own pace. And again, if you don't want Oz to scream at you like that, click the “iron man” checkbox and go at it. Is a horror movie less of a horror movie because your media player has a pause button? Because you can pull your sweater up over your eyes? Because you had to go and pee and you can now go back on watch what happened while you were away? Should people who can't watch horror movies without doing all those things not be allowed to watch them, even though they enjoy the experience? e: Oh, and if a game does what you describe, then the game is very badly designed. It has nothing to do with the ability to save and everything to do with a failure of game development. Tippis fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 12:40
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All games should have a mini game as part of the credits like smash bros (I think?) where you shot the names with lasers for points
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Oct 18, 2014 12:44
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Pierzak posted:Wait, so it's actually unskippable as in "cannot exit to main menu/save new game+", not only for maniacs who want a special achievement for watching a post-credits cameo? I believe AC: Revelations also had a checkpoint at the start of the credits so if you quit out and and re-loaded the game it would just put you back into the credits again.
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Oct 18, 2014 12:50
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Bulging Nipples posted:All games should have a mini game as part of the credits like smash bros (I think?) where you shot the names with lasers for points Or Rayman Origins ( and Legends ), which let you kick the living crap out of the names and titles. They also had absurdly long credits, but at least you had something to do.
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Oct 18, 2014 12:52
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Fart of Presto posted:Yeah, at least they could throw in a "A spent 30 minutes watching the credits and all I got was this crappy achievement" achievement like some games do. Veotax posted:I believe AC: Revelations also had a checkpoint at the start of the credits so if you quit out and and re-loaded the game it would just put you back into the credits again.
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Oct 18, 2014 13:00
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Tippis posted:If you didn't know that already, I don't know what to tell you. Not being able to play the game because I don't know if it's worth sitting through a single stretch or if I have to leave it unfinished because the real world still exists certainly distances me more from it than being able to play it at my own pace. No horror game has literal hours between checkpoints/save points. If you don't have even a 15-30 -minute space to spend on a video game at a time then do realize that you are the exception, not the rule. Real world has existed before as well, and yet people have played and still play console games which extremely rarely if ever have a quicksave function without any kind of issues. quote:Is a horror movie less of a horror movie because your media player has a pause button? Because you can pull your sweater up over your eyes? Because you had to go and pee and you can now go back on watch what happened while you were away? Should people who can't watch horror movies without doing all those things not be allowed to watch them, even though they enjoy the experience? And please never try to compare movies with video games, it does not and never has worked as they are entirely different experiences that work completely differently. Not to mention that even then it's a flawed comparison because video games have a pause button too. Nothing in this comparison has anything to do with saving as a design element in a horror game. 
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Oct 18, 2014 13:09
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Kanfy posted:No horror game has literal hours between checkpoints/save points. 
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Oct 18, 2014 13:11
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Kanfy posted:No horror game has literal hours between checkpoints/save points. If you don't have even a 15-30 -minute space to spend on a video game at a time then do realize that you are the exception, not the rule. Real world has existed before as well, and yet people have played and still play console games which extremely rarely if ever have a quicksave function without any kind of issues. quote:And please never try to compare movies with video games, it does not and never has worked as they are entirely different experiences that work completely differently. This is of course absolute nonsense. It does nothing of the kind. It only ruins their experience if and only if they choose to ruin it that way. They can choose not to. If they can't choose that, then there are two options: the game (or movie) is poorly made because it does not cater to their choice, or it is poorly made because it has to use cheap tricks to evoke its intended emotional response. quote:Not to mention that even then it's a flawed comparison because video games have a pause button too. You can savescrum in a movie too, and as with game it is less disruptive than just pausing for a breather. The comparison is only “flawed” in the sense that I'm pointing to a much worse intrusion as evidence that it isn't disruptive. quote:Nothing in this comparison has anything to do with saving as a design element in a horror game. The simple fact remains: there is no reason ever to not have a quicksave function. If it ruins the game, the game is objectively bad and its design is fundamentally flawed. Tippis fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 13:22
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Kanfy posted:No horror game has literal hours between checkpoints/save points. If you don't have even a 15-30 -minute space to spend on a video game at a time then do realize that you are the exception, not the rule. Real world has existed before as well, and yet people have played and still play console games which extremely rarely if ever have a quicksave function without any kind of issues. Why is it you can't fathom that people with active lives (which is the majorty of people btw) might not be enthralled with losing half an hour of progress when they've only got a couple of hours to play something a day. No-ones really brought up about quick-save(scumming), that was you. But i'm sure Palpek or someone else mentioned that checkpoints were somewhat spacious in the game and that you can get killed while trying to manually save the game. "Oh poo poo, real world calling, i gotta do something/lost track of time/have to be an active adult, where's the save? poo poo, it's like 5 minutes away. Ok, i can squeeze it in, careful, careful, careful, ah save point, i'll just push this but... oh gently caress, dead. Maybe the checkpoint is clo, oh have i just lost the entire last loving section i did? gently caress this game!" - Almost every person i know that plays games and has a job. I'm sure it's also been mentioned that cutscenes in the new Aliens game mask loading so they can't be skipped either. Kin fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 13:25
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Ah, the finest mother-eating game for the 32-bit era.
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Oct 18, 2014 13:31
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Tippis posted:Is a horror movie less of a horror movie because your media player has a pause button? Because you can pull your sweater up over your eyes? Because you had to go and pee and you can now go back on watch what happened while you were away? Should people who can't watch horror movies without doing all those things not be allowed to watch them, even though they enjoy the experience? And I was obviously talking about suspension of disbelief.
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Oct 18, 2014 13:45
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Ghostlight posted:Actually it repeatedly and very obviously pulls the player out of the game. The Great Oz is shouting at you to ignore the man behind the curtain but you can't because you already know there's no wizard, just a sad old conman. If the checkpoint system makes you think "I hope I don't die because them I would lose my progress in this game and have to do this again" how has that immersed you in the game?
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Oct 18, 2014 13:47
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Tippis posted:
It's not remotely the same thing at all and repeating that is not going to suddenly make it true. And in case it wasn't clear we're not talking about the medium as a whole here, we're talking about specific titles using it as a gameplay element and that being perfectly acceptable. What you are trying to say that this shouldn't be allowed at all and that all games must have a way to save at all times or their design is flawed. This is blatantly untrue. quote:This is of course absolute nonsense. It does nothing of the kind. It only ruins their experience if and only if they choose to ruin it that way. They can choose not to. If they can't choose that, then there are two options: the game (or movie) is poorly made because it does not cater to their choice, or it is poorly made because it has to use cheap tricks to evoke its intended emotional response. Again, a game relying on self-imposed limits to have its intended effect is not good game design. Different games set different rules, if you don't like the rules set by the game then vote with your wallet and don't play it. Not every video game (and this goes for any medium) can or should cater to literally everyone; the fact remains that a lot of horror game fans like the tension created by not having the safety net around them at all times and their money and opinions are not any less valuable than yours. You can both have the kind of games you like, there isn't some hard limit to the amount of different video games in the world. quote:So why don't they break the game in the exact same way? Great Oz screams far louder when you pause than when you quicksave, after all… I didn't speak of "Great Oz" in the first place but because pausing a game is not the same thing as saving. When you pause a horror game the actual thing you're afraid of doesn't go anywhere; you can pause it for as long as you like but eventually you will have to face whatever threat you're facing in the game. Free saving on the other hand removes or greatly diminishes the threatening element itself as there is zero consequence for failure. quote:…aside from the hilariously nonsensical claim that being able to control your own experience of the medium somehow removes the horror element. It doesn't do it for movies; why on earth would it do it for games (hint: it wouldn't). You control your own experience by choosing whether or not to play the kind of video game that has game design elements you like or dislike. Claiming that literally every video game has to do something the exact same way so that you personally wouldn't be inconvenienced is ridiculously self-centered thinking. Nobody's asking for quick saves to be removed from gaming so just stick to games that have it and let other people play things they like. Everybody wins. Enough of this derail from me at least, it's gone on for too long already. We'll just have to disagree I suppose.
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Oct 18, 2014 13:49
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Has anyone else been able to get the key for xcom from gmg? I voted using the same email as my gmg account and never got one. 
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Oct 18, 2014 13:50
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Morter posted:Thanks a lot, jerk, you made me break my "No video game purchases until next week" rule so I can get this game. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY I'll be honest when I say I don't know if I'll fire up The Stanley Parable again because I've gotten my fill. In the long run I basically just spent $5 to spend my Friday night giggling and having a good time and that's a pretty good value to me. It honestly did have one of the coolest moments in games I've experienced in a while, though. The first ending I stumbled upon ( the countdown ending) blew me away. The music kicked in at just the right time and it was phenomenal. I was frantically running around trying to solve the mess of buttons laid out before me. I noticed messages on the screens corresponding to what I was pressing and I was confident I was figuring this out. Then the narrator asked me if I honestly thought any of these buttons actually did anything and that it was even possible to save myself. All I could do was shake my head with a smile and realize I was beaten and embraced the sweet release of death. Then I did it again and he asked me how many times I was going to repeat the segment thinking there was actually a solution. 
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Oct 18, 2014 13:54
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Tippis posted:The simple fact remains: there is no reason ever to not have a quicksave function. If it ruins the game, the game is objectively bad and its design is fundamentally flawed. Oh I can think of plenty. Remember the old days of accidentally hitting the QS right before you were going to die ( not knowing it was about to happen! ), or right before a boss battle at low health? Or when you were totally hosed in a stealth game, but you just didn't know it yet, because the patrolling guards hadn't come back around to catch you being stupid yet? Aliens is literally 90% that. You will be spending 5-20 minutes in a single encounter sneaking around, and mistakes at the start of the encounter can mean you die near the end unknowingly. If you were a Quicksave Master and spammed the key, guess what, now you get to start again at the Checkpoint save anyway! There is no way to know where/what the Alien is doing at any time, and if you've actually trapped yourself in a closet for 10 minutes to get killed anyways because it's toying with you. Or you made to many mistakes and now the Androids know you are SOMEWHERE in the room and won't leave, so combat ( re: death ) is the only option. You'll probably now say that's bad game design, and games should be designed to cater to you or some poo poo. But guess what, none of us are the center of the world. I can't play stuff like CK2 because it's way beyond my patience level/time commitment I'm willing to give to games. I'd love to, and think it's a really neat game for cool people, but gently caress if I'm able to get into it. My response to being baffled by it though isn't to say it should lose it's complexity/become easier, because at that point I'm taking away from the game experience people actually enjoy. Aliens is a game designed for those hardcore stealth/horror people who want to immerse themselves fully into an experience, and want that kind of loss tied to their progression to keep things tense. That's not even counting basic immersion/atmosphere, which is a huge chunk of the horror since it isn't jump scare based. Jumping in for 30 minute romps would just be you realizing how gamey the whole thing is, because you never gave the game a chance to cast it's spell on you when it comes to atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, I can understand where you are coming from. I'm getting to the point I have enough responsibilities it's getting harder and harder for me to play games. Hell, some games that really focus heavily on story I have to put aside until my weekends, because I keep getting interrupted and end up forgetting whats going on/where I'm at by the time I get back. But I can also look at Alien and realize why it couldn't just have a QS key, and that just might mean it's not for me. Industrial posted:If the checkpoint system makes you think "I hope I don't die because them I would lose my progress in this game and have to do this again" how has that immersed you in the game? You have to think about the resources you have on hand, and it encourages you into specific behaviors. If you losing will send you back 10-15-30 minutes, you aren't going to charge in guns blazing, but will instead start running/hiding the second things go south. The player WANTS to survive, so they'll start using all the tools at their disposal rather then sitting on 10 thousand medkits/bombs/whatevers because who cares, reload when you gently caress up. It's a tension builder. Death has meaning ingame, so situations in which you are close to dying will build more tension. The trick is to make sure the player has enough tools to deal with combat to make sure they can survive even when at low health, which the game does fairly well.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:00
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Industrial posted:If the checkpoint system makes you think "I hope I don't die because them I would lose my progress in this game and have to do this again" how has that immersed you in the game?
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Oct 18, 2014 14:11
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I have been thinking about buying Alien: Isolation for quite some time now - the player feedback seems to be even more positive ( in general ) than the critics' consensus. I am a huge fan of Ridley Scott's Alien, but I am a bit of a wimp when it comes to tension in games. Heck, I barely survived through Dead Space, and had to quit games like Amnesia and the new Silent Hill -demo ( PT ) because I just couldn't go on. I can watch any given horror-movie, but when it comes to games, I am a coward. This game might be too much for me - in comparison The Evil Within is just in that sweet-spot of being thrilling, but not being too scary for my taste. The other thing I am wondering about is the randomness of the Alien itself. On paper I like the concept - the creature absolutely should be unpredictable and a killing-machine - but since I am not very good in stealth games per se, I wonder if the experience is going to be too frustrating for me. Or am I just thinking too much into this? Maybe I should just man up and get it.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:12
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This argument reminds me of the people who complain that Dark Souls should have had a quick save/load system.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:20
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Verdugo posted:Has anyone else been able to get the key for xcom from gmg? I voted using the same email as my gmg account and never got one. I did. Did you put in your info on this page?
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Oct 18, 2014 14:23
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Arthe Xavier posted:I have been thinking about buying Alien: Isolation for quite some time now - the player feedback seems to be even more positive ( in general ) than the critics' consensus. I am a huge fan of Ridley Scott's Alien, but I am a bit of a wimp when it comes to tension in games. Heck, I barely survived through Dead Space, and had to quit games like Amnesia and the new Silent Hill -demo ( PT ) because I just couldn't go on. I can watch any given horror-movie, but when it comes to games, I am a coward. This game might be too much for me - in comparison The Evil Within is just in that sweet-spot of being thrilling, but not being too scary for my taste. It's literally nothing but tension, they don't go for jump scares/body horror at all, instead making the tension be at the potential loss/fear of death they instill in the player through the save system, mixed in with strong atmosphere. The Alien isn't random at all, and you can grow to understand it's patterns. The big one that usually kills people is the Alien is using vents around the level just like you are. So when you hear it in the walls, it's in the walls, and when you hear things above you, it's above you. Most people just think this is white noise, so when the Alien grabs them the first time they start making a bunch of noise while wandering around, they scream about random deaths. When in fact you can see it's drool dripping from the ceiling, and can hear it crawling in the vents before you get in. Outside of that, it's just a good hunter and is portrayed as such. Every time I've died I've been able to internally think "gently caress, I shouldn't have done that." or "gently caress, I knew my character was partially sticking out of the table.", because it almost never kills me when I play it smart/safe. It's not a physic or anything, just thorough and most people are bad at hiding. Although to point out what Palpek said earlier, if you try and cheese the game by doing the same thing over and over again ( hiding in closets, using the vents, hiding under tables ), it'll start adapting to that strategy in such a way that you can't do that anymore. If you use closets constantly, it'll just start ripping the doors off all closets as it finds them trying to find you. If you hide under tables constantly, it'll start crawling on all fours and sniffing for you. And if you use the vents to get around constantly, it'll start using the vents as well.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:25
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Ghostlight posted:All of those do dispel a lot of any atmosphere it might have been building. That doesn't make it less of a horror movie, it just diminishes the tension it is trying to build for you. As for suspension of disbelief, quicksaving doesn't do that any more than the regular saves — arguably even less when manual saving is deliberately made such a clear (and often far from effort-free) goal as it is in A:I, and it's not the save that breaks the suspension of disbelief, but the loading process. The one that will happen anyway when you die, regardless of whether you saved manually, quickly, or automatically through a checkpointing system. Kanfy posted:It's not remotely the same thing at all and repeating that is not going to suddenly make it true. And in case it wasn't clear we're not talking about the medium as a whole here, we're talking about specific titles using it as a gameplay element and that being perfectly acceptable. What you are trying to say that this shouldn't be allowed at all and that all games must have a way to save at all times or their design is flawed. This is blatantly untrue. And yes, it is the same thing: the assumption that there is only correct way to experience something, and that any deviation from this ruins it all. quote:Again, a game relying on self-imposed limits to have its intended effect is not good game design. Different games set different rules, if you don't like the rules set by the game then vote with your wallet and don't play it. quote:I didn't speak of "Great Oz" in the first place but because pausing a game is not the same thing as saving. When you pause a horror game the actual thing you're afraid of doesn't go anywhere; you can pause it for as long as you like but eventually you will have to face whatever threat you're facing in the game. Free saving on the other hand removes or greatly diminishes the threatening element itself as there is zero consequence for failure. quote:You control your own experience by choosing whether or not to play the kind of video game that has game design elements you like or dislike. Except, of course, that there isn't. Especially not in video games where there is this neat thing called “options” that lets you decide which design elements you want to play with and which you don't, all without having any impact whatsoever on the experience of other players. quote:Claiming that literally every video game has to do something the exact same way so that you personally wouldn't be inconvenienced is ridiculously self-centered thinking. “Also”, not “instead”. That definitely qualifies as ridiculously self-centered thinking. quote:Nobody's asking for quick saves to be removed from gaming so just stick to games that have it and let other people play things they like. Everybody wins.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:27
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Mega Comrade posted:This argument reminds me of the people who complain that Dark Souls should have had a quick save/load system. Dark souls is a bit different since it actually has things that carry over and affect future gameplay when you die. It's not just a binary success/failure state like Alien.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:28
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Kaubocks posted:I'll be honest when I say I don't know if I'll fire up The Stanley Parable again because I've gotten my fill. In the long run I basically just spent $5 to spend my Friday night giggling and having a good time and that's a pretty good value to me. Honestly that's what the first day or so of Goat Simulator sounded like to me. ...And you know what, I did not regret throwing those  down. So thank you for refreshing my memory. 
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Oct 18, 2014 14:30
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Ghostlight posted:My assertion that constant access to a quicksave reduces any attempt to build tension by eliminating the only actual risk the game can present the player doesn't require me to also believe that living in constant meta-fear of having wasted your time playing a video game is immersive. video games ARE a waste of time That's almost exactly what you said in the post you quoted, or at least that is what I got from your weird analogy. Also, you are weird.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:32
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Steam keys for AI War and all of its DLC are discounted silly at GamersGate.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:43
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Rookersh posted:Oh I can think of plenty. What quicksaves do is make the player feel more in control of their decision-making. Whether he is or not is actually a different matter and will depend heavily on the game. In a non-deterministic game, they'll pretty much only work as a safety blanket — again, a way to moderate your tension — since there is no way of telling whether you'll be able to do better next time. Hell, it might not even be the same situation at that point. quote:You'll probably now say that's bad game design, and games should be designed to cater to you or some poo poo. But guess what, none of us are the center of the world. I can't play stuff like CK2 because it's way beyond my patience level/time commitment I'm willing to give to games. I'd love to, and think it's a really neat game for cool people, but gently caress if I'm able to get into it. My response to being baffled by it though isn't to say it should lose it's complexity/become easier, because at that point I'm taking away from the game experience people actually enjoy. Aliens is a game designed for those hardcore stealth/horror people who want to immerse themselves fully into an experience, and want that kind of loss tied to their progression to keep things tense. If you're in the former category, check the option that disables quicksaves. If you're in the latter category, uncheck that same option. Design difficulty: utterly minute. Impact on an individual's ability to enjoy the game: zero. Failure level for not including such a simple option: very very high. quote:Don't get me wrong, I can understand where you are coming from. I'm getting to the point I have enough responsibilities it's getting harder and harder for me to play games. Hell, some games that really focus heavily on story I have to put aside until my weekends, because I keep getting interrupted and end up forgetting whats going on/where I'm at by the time I get back. But I can also look at Alien and realize why it couldn't just have a QS key, and that just might mean it's not for me. I fully understand the argument that “so don't use it” is a bit silly, which is why I'm saying it should be a difficulty option rather than something you do or don't do in game. It's really no different than choosing between Easy or Hard difficulty at the start of the game, and no-one seems to be upset with having those kinds of options. 
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Oct 18, 2014 14:46
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Tippis posted:The simple fact remains: there is no reason ever to not have a quicksave function. Word. Couldn't agree more. Life's too damned short. Even if it's made an opt-out configurable thing, it should be an option. If someone can work out how to mod a quicksave function into Alien:Isolation, I'd personally appreciate the hell out of it.
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Oct 18, 2014 14:50
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SelenicMartian posted:Steam keys for AI War and all of its DLC are discounted silly at GamersGate. http://www.gamersgate.com/DDB-AIWC/ai-war-collection €3.40 for the whole shebang seems like a great deal.
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Oct 18, 2014 15:03
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Flopstick posted:Word. Couldn't agree more. Life's too damned short. Even if it's made an opt-out configurable thing, it should be an option. If someone can work out how to mod a quicksave function into Alien:Isolation, I'd personally appreciate the hell out of it. This is why other games have Ironman mode. Those who don't care about playing the game a certain way can do what they want, while those who want the extra experience (and especially those who do want it but would cheese the gently caress out of saving if the option weren't forcibly taken from them, like me) can click that and get a shiny badge at the end for their trouble. And I appreciate the whole "replicating the real-life fear of death" thing going on but save-retracing doesn't look like a core part of the Alien experience, it's not a roguelike
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Oct 18, 2014 15:04
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I've never played a game where being able to save whenever you wanted to negatively affected my experience. As long as there are checkpoints/manual saves at set events, the worse that can happen is to revert back to them after you decided to mash F5 with a sliver health against a roomful of enemies. If savescumming takes anyone out of their immersion or sense of accomplishment, just don't do it. It's a  to argue against. It doesn't take that much self-control not to hit F5 every five minutes.Also, is Deep Dungeons of Doom any good? It's by the Surgeon Sim devs and is a mobile port. Looks kind of interesting and its pretty cheap. Sivek fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 15:05
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Sivek posted:It doesn't take that much self-control not to hit F5 every five minutes. We're talking about video games, man -- self-control? I have like 200+ save files in Dishonored. My entire hard drive was filled up with New Vegas saves until I realized how large they were. Edit: Also, self-control in the Steam thread, hurr
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Oct 18, 2014 15:08
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Yes. I suppose travelling is an adventure.
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Oct 18, 2014 15:42
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Does that game even have saves? Tippis posted:What quicksaves do is make the player feel more in control of their decision-making. Whether he is or not is actually a different matter and will depend heavily on the game. In a non-deterministic game, they'll pretty much only work as a safety blanket — again, a way to moderate your tension — since there is no way of telling whether you'll be able to do better next time. Hell, it might not even be the same situation at that point. Do you have any idea how much tension and fear a game loses when it gives you that ability? All the fear fades away when you can bumblefuck into a scary situation with zero fear of consequence because you just slap the quickload key and everything's back to normal? Things need consequence in a horror game to instil tension into your every decision, to cultivate that doubt and nervousness about doing anything that builds a strong atmosphere. Having the ability to make all of the decisions free from the consequences chucks all of what makes a horror game an exciting experience right out the loving window. Go play the PC silent hill games (they allow quicksaving) and slap the quicksave key every two seconds and tell me those games don't just get the tension sucked right out of them when there is zero consequence for your actions. Go play Bioshock 1, which is actually pretty spooky and tense right until you realise that Vita Chambers are a thing then the game ceases to be difficult or challenging in the slightest. I mean, sure I wouldn't be against having it as an option because an option is an option and I can ignore it but I can't help but feel like playing such a game with quicksaves and thus no weight to your decision-making to be absolutely missing the point. I honestly don't think you'd like the game even if it did have quicksaving. Bitching about the lack of one on the other hand, is not something I'm down with, the game clearly has a goal and quicksaves go against that goal. If that goal isn't something you can get down with, then the game just isn't for you.
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Oct 18, 2014 15:57
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Hank Morgan posted:Yes. I suppose travelling is an adventure. Netflix once recommended that I watch Dexter, because it was similar to Family Guy  .My point is, sometimes (and in the case of Steam, all the time) recommendations aren't based on anything and they just want to sell you something. edit: everybody is forgetting that you can consciously choose to NOT hit F5, adding the option doesn't suddenly flip a switch in your brain that makes you flail your fingers into the F5 key every 20 seconds, jesus christ people mr. nobody fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 15:58
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Go play the PC silent hill games (they allow quicksaving) and slap the quicksave key every two seconds and tell me those games don't just get the tension sucked right out of them when there is zero consequence for your actions. Go play Bioshock 1, which is actually pretty spooky and tense right until you realise that Vita Chambers are a thing then the game ceases to be difficult or challenging in the slightest. You know, I'm not trying to argue or even join in this conversation but despite the fact that the game had Vita-Chambers, I used the save feature and loaded whenever I died. It was never any less tense for me, because I tried to avoid dying, and I enjoyed the game's atmosphere. I still had trouble with enemies, and I still got spooked by certain things. Never did I even think "Oh yeah well I can obviously reload if I die so there's no big deal!  " Sure, it's mildly self-imposed, but just because there is a feature or function that can make a player's life marginally easier, doesn't mean it will be willingly utilized/exploited by everyone. Maybe I'm just a bit different than others, but I certainly don't. Even if I could quicksave every 2 minutes, I certainly wouldn't.
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Oct 18, 2014 16:02
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Go play the PC silent hill games (they allow quicksaving) and slap the quicksave key every two seconds
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Oct 18, 2014 16:05
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Here's why checkpoints without QS are (usually) terrible. Say there's a very atmospheric section of the game (or difficult if we're talking about a game that's not horror). You give it a few tries and eventually get past it. Right past that point there's a difficulty spike. You die. Now you go through the same section only you know everything in advance and do it much quicker. You die again at the difficulty spike. So now you're tired and pissed that you have to go through the same section AGAIN before attempting the part you're struggling with. The atmosphere is dead as you're just plowing through that part. It's stupid and tedious now instead of tense and exciting. So what's the answer? Checkpoints before each challenge? All you're doing then is signposting your difficulty spikes making the game predictable. Your other choice? Checkpoints all the time everywhere so what's the point in not having a QS anyway? It's a bad system that some people seem to have some weird need to defend. A few months ago I was playing a checkpoint game where there was a really long hard section that was exactly the situation I was talking about above. I got all the way through it finally only to have a checkpoint hit at the exact moment an enemy spotted me. My playthrough was hosed unless I reset the whole chapter and not only having to re-do the pain in the rear end section but alot of unskippable cutscenes and other nonsense. Now don't get me wrong. I don't think Checkpoints are impossible to make well but they nearly never are and the few times they are it's a case of Darksouls where it's just part of the gameplay or indistinguishable from when I'm just allowed to save at will anyway. You have to have a designer that has tuned it perfectly and it's a waste of effort when there's a simpler solution out there.
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Oct 18, 2014 16:09
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Put checkpoints everywhere convenient (i.e., anywhere there's not a fight). That's how a bunch of games like the Lego series and Batman does it and it works just fine.
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Oct 18, 2014 16:12
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