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I am so ridiculously pleased that no-one died! I loved the "you shall become our shoes!" thing, too.
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Oct 19, 2014 01:34
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So yeah, that Cyberdisc is a thing because unlike every other alien in the game it starts the map active. This means it will just straight up come into view on an enemy turn and then whoops it can attack. It is for this reason it is rightly known as The Douchedisc.
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Oct 19, 2014 04:22
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 So very pixellated. What on earth? This stuff changing the world? Hmm. It gets interesting when you review the requests and what happens. Shivs/Sectopods being used for police duties and so on. Oddly enough, given how much this stuff gets primarily used for combat duties, and given that even now we're still working well in terms of artificial limbs, AND given most of it is based off an element/elements we cannot get to nor synthesise(Elerium, MELD)-The common person isn't going to get much benefit, if any. Hopefully the new aerospace tech, while it lasts, can help us grab more stuff and perhaps allow stuff to get to a point where ordinary guys will benefit, but somehow I doubt it. The military, on the other hand, just got a whole whack of power. I hate to sound depressing, but that's about the size of it. The most interesting possibilities are with the items that can be sold freely, such as Alien Entertainment and med facilities. Maybe we can learn more about cloning. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 04:28
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Yeah, I have no idea why that blood is pixelated there, it's usually so much better.
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Oct 19, 2014 04:33
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Bloodly posted:
Another option would be that we'd be able to reverse-engineer the Alloy the aliens use. I mean now with an alien threat hanging over us it isn't the time nor place to try and reverse-engineer metal, but once they are driven from our planet we'd possibly be able to make such a metal on our own and make something useful out of it. And besides, didn't most feats of technology and engineering begin in the military sector anyhow? With advance laser and plasma rifles come more advanced laser and plasma tools; with AI drones and Cybernetics comes the possibility of actual robot workers to help where staff is low, not to mention the ability to enhance people who work in factories and the like. Advanced Genetics could lead to finding cures for several horrible genetic diseases, not to mention perhaps some non-genetic ones as well. The coming fighter-planes would revolutionize the aero-space industry as we know it, and with the Alien engines we could possibly even make lunar colonization a fact. I mean, I know I come across as the optimist to outweigh your pessimism, but I do think there are many good things that could come out of this in time, despite the lack of natural resources to do so. That just means we have to take to unnatural means to do so, no? There exists only a set number of base elements after all.
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Oct 19, 2014 04:40
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Luhood posted:Another option would be that we'd be able to reverse-engineer the Alloy the aliens use. I mean now with an alien threat hanging over us it isn't the time nor place to try and reverse-engineer metal, but once they are driven from our planet we'd possibly be able to make such a metal on our own and make something useful out of it. Well the plasma and most late game tech all takes elerium to build, so it's probably only going to exist in the quantities xcom makes since elerium is very limited in quantity and only accessible from the aliens. Ditto on meld tech. You have a point with lasers and early game tech though, for instance the medkit buff you get from thin men would in theory be an advance usable across the planet, and carapace and skeleton armor could probably have civilian applications if you looked for them.
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Oct 19, 2014 04:44
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quote:Another option would be that we'd be able to reverse-engineer the Alloy the aliens use. You suddenly remind me that in old X-Com, you WERE able to reverse engineer and manufacture the alloy outright with only a money outlay. Here? Can't, alien only. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 04:46
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To be fair, the inability to reverse engineer things like Elerium, and Meld, could well just be due to lack of study. Sure, you can't do it within the space that the game takes place, but what about in another year? Five years? Research and study on point directed to immediate use, as is the case with the XCOM research and development, only goes so far. If given more time to study, and research without the need for IMMEDIATE results to use against the aliens, we could possibly reverse engineer much of it. Or at least find ways to substitute them for other materials, that we CAN make, to produce similar, if reduced, results. As for how it could change the world? Massive advances in transportation technology could easily lead to more solid, reliable, and long-lasting space colonization. Maybe not on the moon, maybe not even on a planet, but even orbital colonies would become far more plausible. Our ability to travel through space would be far enhanced by studying the alien vessels, leading to discovery of new star systems, and planets. We might even be able to start doing stuff like mining asteroids for valuable resources. (Possibly even Elerium, or MELD, who knows.) As for things I'd LIKE to see changed in the world due to this tech? The entertainment systems of aliens integrated with video games. I want my virtual reality as soon as possible, preferably in the cheap, and easily made variety. Also, increase in the ease of transportation around the world, I have no friends that live near me, so being able to easily travel across countries, or even continents, would be awesome.
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Oct 19, 2014 05:25
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Later games mentioned manufactured elerium (Either Apocalypse, Interceptor, or both) being possible but also bonkers expensive to do so going out to mine for it was still preferred, while manufactured stuff was saved for small 'need it now' stuff like elerium missile warheads. Or at least something along those lines. Then again, your research rate was determined by how good your Wi-Fi service was in interceptor  I think the inert because Chtulu is dead Zribite got used as a lens component in laser sniper rifles or something for Apoc. And then in Apoc oh look since you blew up the giant generator in another dimension, your dimensional rift powered toys probably don't work anymore. So at least with Elerium, there's some odds of working it out trying to make it yourself at all. Compared to 'yeah, just it's useless/gone now'. EDIT: But it's okay, because X-Com will loving research how to fly through a black hole, so they can blow up a sun with a fighter mounted missile, because the Aliens built something where the gun barrel is the size of the death star... Interceptor may have not been the best game, but drat if it didn't escalate quickly. Section Z fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 05:36
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You know something funny? Elerium is element number 115, and that particular number was chosen because Bob Lazar claimed that element 115 was the secret power source of the UFO's stored in Area 51 back in 1989.
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Oct 19, 2014 05:45
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Feinne posted:So yeah, that Cyberdisc is a thing because unlike every other alien in the game it starts the map active. This means it will just straight up come into view on an enemy turn and then whoops it can attack. It is for this reason it is rightly known as The Douchedisc. I'm just lucky it was where I found it. I'm actually a little disappointed, if it killed anyone I wanted it to be Zhang, on the end of his mission chain. Didn't even get to see it transform because I totally blew it away. Good for gameplay, bad for dramatic tension.
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Oct 19, 2014 06:41
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Funny you say that, in one of my three ironman games, Zhang died to the Douchedisk. It's kind of hillarious. And sad, at the same time, because Zhang is actually pretty drat good. His SECOND death was because a Rookie panicked because someone got SHOT by the Douchedisk and the rookie shot Zhang. That rookie lived to become one of my first psionics.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:04
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The manner in which this technology will change Earth already has precedents in human history. Many times in the past, more advanced civilizations have invaded less advanced civilizations for... whatever reason, be it God, Glory or Gold. Often the less advanced civilizations ended up under the invader's boot, and the invaders forcefully dragged the invaded civilization up to something resembling their own technology level, for their convenience. This fate of enslavement in exchange for advancement is what awaits humanity if the invaders win and decide to let us live. But if humanity survives and drives the invaders off... I can't think of many examples of a large invading force, one that is hundreds or maybe thousands of years more technologically advanced than the nation they are attacking, being repelled and leaving so much of their equipment behind. The raw cultural pressure to adapt if they were in charge won't be there. Adaptation will be a little slower. But these secrets we have unlocked will be used, to push humanity forward, at a pace we choose.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:31
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It really all depends on if elerium is something we can synthesize/is within our reach or is not. Because if it isn't. Well, then basically, everything that we see will be the last of it, pretty much.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:38
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NewMars posted:It really all depends on if elerium is something we can synthesize/is within our reach or is not. Because if it isn't. Well, then basically, everything that we see will be the last of it, pretty much. Unless one of the parts of the composition is elerium, in which case welp.
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Oct 19, 2014 10:02
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I think Shen at one point explicitly states that given a year or two of straight research they could probably figure out how to synthesize Elerium; it's just that you don't /have/ a couple of years to spare while the invasion is on, and reverse engineering looted tech is going to take priority because it gets you the stuff you need /now/. That's why the plasma weapons basically resemble the aliens' weaponry with the trigger and aiming mechanisms adapted to human hands; that's why the various interceptor boosts and equipment uses up alien corpses; that's especially why all the gene mods involve plugging alien organs into humans. Once the war is over, assuming Humanity wins it of course, there's going to be a great deal of investment into research -- Globally, rather than "a few dozen scientists in a single classified lab working underground under wartime conditions" -- and knowing that it /can/ be done is often the first step into learning /how/ it's done.
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Oct 19, 2014 10:12
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JT Jag posted:I can't think of many examples of a large invading force, one that is hundreds or maybe thousands of years more technologically advanced than the nation they are attacking, being repelled and leaving so much of their equipment behind. Two spring to mind, both against the British Empire: the Zulus at the battle of Isandlwana and the Anglo-Afghan Wars. The former ended the first invasion of Zululand, but paved the way for the heavily reinforced and successful second invasion. The latter, three costly and bloody conflicts which really didn't accomplish much, with the highlight being the Retreat from Kabul in 1842, from which one person of the entire British contingent, military and civilian, made it to safety.
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Oct 19, 2014 10:35
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kaosdrachen posted:Once the war is over, assuming Humanity wins it of course, there's going to be a great deal of investment into research -- Globally, rather than "a few dozen scientists in a single classified lab working underground under wartime conditions" -- and knowing that it /can/ be done is often the first step into learning /how/ it's done. Yeah, future high-school text-books talking about the History of Technology will look like: The Neolithic Revolution The Industrial Revolution The Xenotechnological Revolution
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Oct 19, 2014 10:49
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JT Jag posted:The manner in which this technology will change Earth already has precedents in human history. Many times in the past, more advanced civilizations have invaded less advanced civilizations for... whatever reason, be it God, Glory or Gold. Often the less advanced civilizations ended up under the invader's boot, and the invaders forcefully dragged the invaded civilization up to something resembling their own technology level, for their convenience. It's not quite the same thing, but I'm getting some Meiji Restoration vibes - "Oh poo poo, there's a whole goddamn world out there, we need to catch up super-fast or who knows how we're gonna get curb-stomped in the future."
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Oct 19, 2014 11:08
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I predict all this new tech will lead to some sort of new Metal Gear... Also a whole bunch of Cyberpunk stuff.
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Oct 19, 2014 14:48
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This reminds me of a heavily-intoxicated discussion me and some of my college dorm-mates had some years back about the original X-Com. Back then, you could manufacture tech you researched and sell it for a profit, which quickly became one of our main sources of income, and some of my friends got to wondering just where the gently caress those dozens of giant laser cannons we sold every month were going. If you're just offloading that poo poo on the black market to the highest bidder, think of how much that would shake up the world geopolitical scene - big gently caress-off energy weapons just randomly showing up in the hands of whoever can afford them. The news ticker in this game hints at a lot of poo poo being shaken up by the alien technology you deliver to funding nations on requests (I seem to recall a cure for Alzheimer's being mentioned if you deliver a certain alien corpse, as well as some of the funding nations successfully reverse-engineering large-scale laser weapons out of the rifles you send them). Once the war is over, and you've got all this poo poo you can study without the imminent threat of total destruction looming over everyone, it's pretty much all up from there. Even if they never figure out how to reverse-engineer elerium, if this series is holding to the old series fluff at all, there are huge deposits of the stuff on Mars. And even if not, elerium is ultimately just a power source, so all you need is enough electricity. Then there's all the tech advances that don't require elerium or alien alloys - if nothing else, the technology you discover is going to revolutionize medicine. And what about psionics? There are a bunch of psychic-potential humans kind of just floating around out there and we now have the technology required to detect them and begin training them.
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Oct 19, 2014 15:25
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Mister Bates posted:big gently caress-off energy weapons just randomly showing up in the hands of whoever can afford them. I kinda assumed we were inadvertently arming the Defias (uh, EXALT) and before Enemy Within, we just didn't realise it.
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Oct 19, 2014 15:35
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Mister Bates posted:big gently caress-off energy weapons just randomly showing up in the hands of whoever can afford them. "In political news today, Mitt Romney handily won the Presidential Debate versus Barack Obama when he produced a laser pistol and vaporized a wall while declaring that a vote for Romney was a vote for lasers. An ABC poll taken after the debate shows 92% of respondents would vote for Romney if the election were held today; analysts expect a full Republican 'wave' election to follow on his coattails."
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Oct 19, 2014 20:32
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AJ_Impy posted:Two spring to mind, both against the British Empire: the Zulus at the battle of Isandlwana and the Anglo-Afghan Wars. The former ended the first invasion of Zululand, but paved the way for the heavily reinforced and successful second invasion. The latter, three costly and bloody conflicts which really didn't accomplish much, with the highlight being the Retreat from Kabul in 1842, from which one person of the entire British contingent, military and civilian, made it to safety. Excuse me. Two people. Hector of Afghanistan after all.
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Oct 19, 2014 20:54
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JT Jag posted:Same story with the Meld. Except the Meld seems to be some sort of chemical composition and not an element of its own, so the likelihood it can be retrofitted is possible and at least we have an unprecedented breakthrough in cybernetics and genetic modifications. A thought about Meld: it shows up at abduction sites and landed and crashed UFOs. I think it's made out of people, or at least manufactured on-site from Earth-native ingredients. I should be possible to recreate it without the aliens' assistance, assuming like you said that Elerium isn't a critical ingredient. That is, if you have the ethical flexibility to use people to make new Meld. Consider Exalt - all of their advanced operatives are gene-modded out the ears. This would cost boatloads of Meld. I could see Exalt figuring out how to make their own, and mass-producing it to make their soldiers. Even if it's people - Exalt is already described as evil enough to do such a thing. In any event, if the aliens are thwarted, there is going to be a mad scramble to recover and research any alien technology left on Earth. Various governments and corporate powers are going to want to corner the market on whatever alien-derived technology we can make, and that's going to bring them in conflict with each other.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:06
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Thing is, why would they need to do that? They have clone tech. Good clone tech too. Just make some clones without a brain, use that for meld. Bam, Ethical sourced Meld right there. and if it DOES require a brain for whatever reason, just feed it braindead clones.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:10
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Zebrin posted:Thing is, why would they need to do that? They have clone tech. Good clone tech too. Just make some clones without a brain, use that for meld. Bam, Ethical sourced Meld right there. and if it DOES require a brain for whatever reason, just feed it braindead clones. I am so reminded of The Island.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:26
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Zebrin posted:Thing is, why would they need to do that? They have clone tech. Good clone tech too. Just make some clones without a brain, use that for meld. Bam, Ethical sourced Meld right there. and if it DOES require a brain for whatever reason, just feed it braindead clones. I wouldn't be surprised if a viable-enough-to-be-useful clone requires a reasonably well-developed brain. You might be able to get away with e.g. the equivalent of a person with an IQ of 60, but that's still smart enough to be a gigantic ethical can of worms.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:46
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Speaking of, one little thing that bugs me about XCOM is that you can't break captured gear down into its components, even at a loss. It'd give you something else to do with (say) broken UFO components, and it'd provide incentive to keep capturing aliens in the late game. A couple extra funbucks don't matter then, but weapon fragments and alien alloys at a better return rate than if you just shoot them? Yes, please!
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Oct 19, 2014 21:48
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FredMSloniker posted:Speaking of, one little thing that bugs me about XCOM is that you can't break captured gear down into its components, even at a loss. It'd give you something else to do with (say) broken UFO components, and it'd provide incentive to keep capturing aliens in the late game. A couple extra funbucks don't matter then, but weapon fragments and alien alloys at a better return rate than if you just shoot them? Yes, please! There's only a couple of times this is an issue, in my experience. When you need to foundry-ize a lot more stuff but don't have enough weapon fragments. It is hideously expensive to build some of the late-game equipment, though, so you're gonna want to do live captures just to get their stuff.
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Oct 19, 2014 23:53
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I recently read a few interesting articles on VICE.com about the chances of invading the US, the UK and Russia with current day technology, albeit with a few caveats once the answers boiled down to "Nuke or nope". I'm guessing that while the US would still have the defense budget and the infrastructure to make the most use of alien technology, nations that are decades behind the US when it comes to conventional weapons could suddenly be on equal footing. That would shake things up quite a bit. Another important aspect in the article was the lack of any kind of usable anti-nuke system in a MAD scenario, because of the land/air/sea capabilities of nations like the US and Russia, and the incredible power of nuke-equipped subs. With new detection methods and vastly improved interceptors, could nuclear deterrence be a thing of the past or would superweapons improve in step with their countermeasures? Love the LP by the way. Would this be a good thread to ask for advice on The Long War (I've only been reading Speedball's posts up until now), or should I take it somewhere else?
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Oct 20, 2014 00:24
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Black Griffon posted:Love the LP by the way. Would this be a good thread to ask for advice on The Long War (I've only been reading Speedball's posts up until now), or should I take it somewhere else? Glad you like it! The regular XCOM thread in the Games forum is literally nothing but Long War posts now, so they can definitely help you.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:27
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Speedball posted:Glad you like it! The regular XCOM thread in the Games forum is literally nothing but Long War posts now, so they can definitely help you. Man, we still have an thread in games, hiding in plain sight. Thanks!
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Oct 20, 2014 00:35
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Black Griffon posted:Another important aspect in the article was the lack of any kind of usable anti-nuke system in a MAD scenario, because of the land/air/sea capabilities of nations like the US and Russia, and the incredible power of nuke-equipped subs. With new detection methods and vastly improved interceptors, could nuclear deterrence be a thing of the past or would superweapons improve in step with their countermeasures? Caution: this is all stuff I dimly remember reading about, so it could be wildly inaccurate. There are two problems with missile interception. The first is that missiles move incredibly quickly. Just hitting something moving that fast is a major problem, let alone disabling it. Lasers can hit more reasonably, but need to stay on-target an improbable length of time to actually cause enough damage to get the missile to veer off-course. "Realistic" missile defense thus relies on being able to get to the missile while it's still in its boost phase (i.e. while it's taking off, not while it's "landing"), simply because they move so much more slowly during that period. Of course, that means mounting your anti-missile batteries near your opponent, which isn't much good for international tensions. The second problem is simply that there are so many goddamned missiles out there. And only one needs to slip past the net to really ruin your target of choice. Let's say that your missile defense is 95% successful (which is wildly, incredibly stupidly optimistic for modern ICBM defense)...well, congratulations, your opponent just fires 20 missiles at each target and wins anyway. Mind, a 95%-successful missile shield would still be useful against smaller nations, but it's still not the kind of thing you want to count on working, when you lose millions of civilian lives if you fail. It's not clear how much X-COM would affect the detection side; the main thing they accomplish is putting satellites in geostationary orbit above most of the major parts of the globe. That might make a difference in determining that a missile has launched, but I rather expect that "we" (i.e. each major nation) has 24/7 surveillance of the entire globe anyway, though probably not via geostationary orbits, which are a bit expensive and high-up. As for interceptors, even the late-game upgrades still take a few hours to get across the globe. I think the main thing that X-COM solves for the MAD situation is just improving the success rate of your missile shield. X-COM's lasers are orders of magnitude more powerful (for their size) than anything in development right now, and might actually be enough to achieve a 95% success rate on missiles that you have the gear in position for. I guess one question is the divergence rate of the beam (i.e. how quickly it diffuses with distance). Some diffusion is unavoidable simply because you're firing in atmosphere, but a hypothetical net of low-orbit satellites armed with lasers and onboard nuclear power could be pretty effective -- not just against missiles but anything else your enemy tried to put in the air. Of course, then your satellites get shot down and orbit gets filled with junk, and nobody gets to launch anything up there.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:44
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Black Griffon posted:I recently read a few interesting articles on VICE.com about the chances of invading the US, the UK and Russia with current day technology, albeit with a few caveats once the answers boiled down to "Nuke or nope". I'm guessing that while the US would still have the defense budget and the infrastructure to make the most use of alien technology, nations that are decades behind the US when it comes to conventional weapons could suddenly be on equal footing. That would shake things up quite a bit. There's a reason why US invasion stories such as in Modern Warfare 2 or World in Conflict or Homefront have to come up with some really contrived explanations as to why the invasion works such as the satellite hacking in MW2 as a conventional invasion fleet would've been detected really really early and just sunk before even laying eyes on the US coast. Maybe adding a wild card in the form of Alien tech would've helped but I kinda doubt that at the same time because the one you're invading will probably also have access to it so it balances out. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Of course, then your satellites get shot down and orbit gets filled with junk, and nobody gets to launch anything up there. At least until someone retrofits a certain later inceptor with a giant vacuum cleaner or something. Even then it'd be years until the anything could be put into orbit again without being torn to shreds.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:13
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Conventional War against/between modern nations is pretty much impossible and highly unfavorable to both sides (unless one side is incredibly weak). That non-interceptible ways of bombardment exist make it really dumb to mobilize a standard army. There is a reason why asymmetrical wars are the only kinds that are waged anymore.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:50
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Advanced cyber warfare could reopen some of those possibilities. A fleet can't be sunk if the enemy thinks that fleet is still at port 3000 miles away.
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Oct 20, 2014 02:37
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I don't think that it is soylent meld, but I imagine that it's also because EXALT is taking sort of the same route as the aliens. They aren't actually trying to make things mesh all nice and humanely like we do, they just want results. They probably use less meld than you do for their operations.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:38
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Love that bounty. So what's your limiting factor on gear now? Money? Time?
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Oct 20, 2014 09:48
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Glazius posted:Love that bounty. So what's your limiting factor on gear now? Money? Time? To make gear you need money, components (usually Alien Alloy, sometimes corpses), time, and to have completed certain research goals. At the moment (unless Speedball's been leaving stuff out), I think the main limitation he's facing is that his scientists don't know how to build fancier toys. Hence why in the narrative the Commander's saying they need a new research lab. Once they do research plasma weapons, they'll get a plasma rifle for free, since they've captured a Muton who was carrying one. It just needs to be adapted for human use.
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Oct 20, 2014 15:05
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