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It's almost refreshing to see an outpouring of hatred for a woman because of the content of her character rather than her gender.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:00
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TetsuoTW posted:
We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:05
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My favorite thing about that video is that the entire thing is pretty much six minutes of the political/gender equivalent of "our black friends".
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Oct 22, 2014 16:46
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I like that their largely transphobic movement's token tran is the craziest one possible, personally
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Oct 22, 2014 16:49
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TetsuoTW posted:My favorite thing about that video is that the entire thing is pretty much six minutes of the political/gender equivalent of "our black friends". Look! We have two women who agree with us! We're making a valid argument guys! Also LOL at their Patreon page saying they have no agenda. Literally everything anybody creates has an agenda. If your goal is to shoot down Anita that's your agenda, how transparent can you be?
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Oct 22, 2014 16:53
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That documentary is going to be enlightening in all the ways they aren't intending. I can't wait.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:09
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al-azad posted:Look! We have two women who agree with us! We're making a valid argument guys! Agendas, like politics, are thing only the bad people have.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:59
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Dr. Stab posted:Agendas, like politics, are thing only the bad people have. Also, bias.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:01
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Yeah they don't have an agenda, they're just out to provide a balanced and in-depth look at exactly why feminists are the literal devil who are all going to take our video games away.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:01
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http://www.clickhole.com/article/summary-gamergate-movement-we-will-immediately-cha-1241quote:Even if you’re only a casual internet user, chances are that by now you’ve probably heard something about the movement known as Gamergate. If you’re unfamiliar with what Gamergate is, we’ve taken the liberty of writing up a brief summary of the movement and its goals, which we will immediately change if anything in it offends anyone who associates with Gamergate.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:15
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Phone posted:http://www.clickhole.com/article/summary-gamergate-movement-we-will-immediately-cha-1241 This article is the best. https://twitter.com/fart/status/524955945449689088
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Oct 22, 2014 19:16
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al-azad posted:Also LOL at their Patreon page saying they have no agenda. Literally everything anybody creates has an agenda. If your goal is to shoot down Anita that's your agenda, how transparent can you be? I think it's mostly because they're informed by batshit Conservative/Libertarian sources and figures who view themselves as blameless and holy, while everyone else trying to destroy The Way Things Ought to Be are biased, agenda-having culture destroyers. These are the same people who complain when editorials contain an argument they don't agree with, because Something's Wrong if their side isn't catered to at every possible opportunity. They literally have zero empathy because they can't possibly imagine someone having/arguing for a different perspective than their own.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:02
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Are there any relevant podcasts still talking about GamerGate?
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Oct 22, 2014 21:05
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doctorfrog posted:Are there any relevant podcasts still talking about GamerGate?
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Oct 22, 2014 21:14
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doctorfrog posted:Are there any relevant podcasts still talking about GamerGate? It depends on your personal definition of relevant, I guess. Isometric podcast this week was a loving tough listen because Brianna Wu is one of the hosts of that podcast, and she talks about the last week of her life, starting with the rape/death threats she received, her family leaving their home, and the beginnings of the mass media blowup that is finally happening. It was really intense and (of course) a pretty angry and frustrating run down to experience, but holy hell it was well articulated. Actually, the first 2/3 of that episode is one of the most potent gaming podcasts I've listened to. It's three back to back segments that, when experienced in aggregate, hit me hard in three pretty different ways: 1) They open with one of the hosts (Maddy Meyers I think?) talking about how she went to a convention over the weekend, and it sounded like it was one of the first times she'd actually run into hardcore listeners of her podcast, who asked her to draw a picture of one of their injokes, and it was basically the happiest thing ever. 2) That goes IMMEDIATELY into the above mentioned GamerGate segment with Briana talking about moving out of her home. 3) Then the third segment is them breaking down Bayonetta 2 from the perspective of a collection of people who REALLY like that series (despite? while?) identifying as feminists. It's not a "feminist critique" of Bayonetta or anything like that -- it's a totally off the cuff classic podcast impressions style take on the game, but it goes down side-chutes of their past with the series, how they sit relative to other women critics and developers on the subject, and ends up also dropping into side talk about the history of women writers and developers in the games industry relative to when (and what) they started self identifying as feminists. Anyway I know some people in this thread really don't like Isometric because not only does it feature people laughing at their own material, but it features a bunch of women doing it so it can be called the even worse "giggling," but it's a show I enjoy more each week, and this week was just kind of nuts. Ramagamma posted:Relevant and GamerGate don't belong in the same sentence. ja2ke fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 21:14
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doctorfrog posted:Are there any relevant podcasts still talking about GamerGate? Relevant and GamerGate don't belong in the same sentence.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:16
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TetsuoTW posted:
No matter how many times I see him, I still can't get over lovely Kane.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:25
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jellycat posted:No matter how many times I see him, I still can't get over lovely Kane. Slopgut Gillette is funny to me too and this is while fully admitting I own one sloppy gut.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:28
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ja2ke posted:It depends on your personal definition of relevant, I guess. Isometric podcast this week was a loving tough listen because Brianna Wu is one of the hosts of that podcast That episode is really important for people to hear, I think. A lot of Gamergate coverage is done through blogs, chatlogs, tweets, and John Nash redline conspiracy MSpaints, and it's easy for me to get inured to just how absurd the whole thing is. That might just be me, so I will speak for myself. Hearing the heartbreak and resolve in her voice is simultaneously a bitter pill to swallow and a revelation. It's a tremendous benefit of the audio medium that the true human cost of this horseshit can shine through and confront the listener. Having written that, I realize it's likely that there are people who get off on hearing Briana Wu cry. I'd prefer to hope that they are few in number and there are more people who gain a better emotional understanding of the consequences of this kind of harassment.
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Oct 22, 2014 22:01
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http://duckfeed.tv/asp/59 I like how Abject Suffering consistently brings out the strangest topics in Gary and Kole.
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Oct 22, 2014 22:37
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Song For The Deaf posted:That episode is really important for people to hear, I think. A lot of Gamergate coverage is done through blogs, chatlogs, tweets, and John Nash redline conspiracy MSpaints, and it's easy for me to get inured to just how absurd the whole thing is. That might just be me, so I will speak for myself. Came here basically to say this. That episode is very hard, but necessary, to listen to at points because it's loving horrifying actually hearing what women who are targeted by GamerGate are going through. When Anita Sarkeesian was getting so much poo poo back when she started Tropes vs. Women (doesn't that seem like a lifetime ago now that all this poo poo is happening by the way) I naively thought it couldn't get any worse but here we are, it really puts into perspective what they've been going through. The people that have been behind all these threats and harassment need to be held to account.
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Oct 22, 2014 22:45
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Has idle Thumbs done any new streaming yet? Those old streams of kerbal, frycry, ck2, etc were some of the best thumbs content imo and I'm itching for some new streams
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Oct 22, 2014 22:48
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Song For The Deaf posted:That episode is really important for people to hear, I think. A lot of Gamergate coverage is done through blogs, chatlogs, tweets, and John Nash redline conspiracy MSpaints, and it's easy for me to get inured to just how absurd the whole thing is. That might just be me, so I will speak for myself. I acknowledge it, I understand it, and have incorporated what I feel is the right mindset regarding its central issues, and will integrate them into my actions to be a slightly better moral person. I'm very fortunate in a way that nearly everything about this issue was a complete alien surprise, since I've never had a problem with Sarkeesian and more or less appreciated what she was trying to do, don't care about who sleeps with who, and the friends I play with have no explicit women issues that I'm aware of. I don't consider games journalism to be any more or less important than book or movie reviews--they are not as crucial as other branches of reporting, which deserve much more attention. I live in a privileged bubble that has been formed in part by my own good choices in association, in-built privilege as a white male, and what I once thought was a hardcore interest in games, but now seems very moderate by the scale I'm seeing. I may be a terrible person for saying this, but I'll listen to this podcast, then, I'm done with GamerGate. Not that GamerGate is done, or solved, just I'm done with it. After every other headline I read throughout the day, my own personal bullshit, I just don't have enough room for GamerGate. A lot of folks are at the center of that storm, but I'm not. I know, who cares, I sound like a jackass, etc. And I don't want to stop progressive conversation about it. I don't want people to stop talking about it, but is there anything new to be said about it? Or is it just fresh outrages, or "those guys are dumb lol" at this point? edit: bald turtleneck guy in bad video is certainly worth mocking. It's one thing to pick hip clothes from a checklist, but you have to know how to wear them as well. doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 23:03
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ImPureAwesome posted:Has idle Thumbs done any new streaming yet? Those old streams of kerbal, frycry, ck2, etc were some of the best thumbs content imo and I'm itching for some new streams They're really busy making a video game now. Something called Firewatch. I don't know what it is. edit: I'm going to assume Jake and co were in the audience but if not I really hope they've seen the panel bits about Firewatch in that Best Of video. Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 23:20
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Captain Invictus posted:They're really busy making a video game now. Something called Firewatch. I don't know what it is. I don't understand. Fire..watch?
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Oct 22, 2014 23:29
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ja2ke posted:It depends on your personal definition of relevant, I guess. Isometric podcast this week was a loving tough listen because Brianna Wu is one of the hosts of that podcast, and she talks about the last week of her life, starting with the rape/death threats she received, her family leaving their home, and the beginnings of the mass media blowup that is finally happening. I watched a documentary on bullying the other day and seeing a funny-looking kid get onto the schoolbus in the morning and then have the kid he sits next to literally threaten tell him he's going to "bring a knife tomorrow and loving cut your loving face off you little bitch," and all the kid can do is half-heartedly try to laugh it off gave me the exact same feeling as Brianna's initial listing of a handful of the threats to herself and her family. http://www.veoh.com/watch/v45037010aXNkPw8X?h1=The+Bully+Project+Full+Movie (the school administration are amazingly useless - my favorite bit was when she forces a kid being bullied to shake hands with the bully and apologize - for being antagonized until he lost his temper. The kid's parting line "He was my friend - until he started bullying me" was heartbreaking. Chris Kluwe wrote a pretty cutting blog piece the other day on gamergate, and while it's remarkably fun to read due to his amazingly impressive ability to make up insults, it was really cool to see someone with that kind of fanbase that's not directly-connected to either the online or gaming culture pulse, make such a public statement. https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-gamergaters-piss-me-the-f-off-a7e4c7f6d8a6 doctorfrog posted:
coyo7e fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 23:29
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In his videos, he sips hard liquor on the rocks and smokes cigarettes like some kind of Frank Miller parody.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:03
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coyo7e posted:Chris Kluwe wrote a pretty cutting blog piece the other day on gamergate, and while it's remarkably fun to read due to his amazingly impressive ability to make up insults, it was really cool to see someone with that kind of fanbase that's not directly-connected to either the online or gaming culture pulse, make such a public statement. https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-gamergaters-piss-me-the-f-off-a7e4c7f6d8a6 This is sort of what I'm talking about. It's a fine piece, and this is SomethingAwful.com, and I made fun of a dope's wardrobe. But is there anything new to say here other than, "Those guys are jerks?" I have a daughter. I worry about how her life's going to be. A lot. But I'm not that worried about this, because, quite frankly, the bums already lost. The battle rages on, goes back and forth, vollies are hurled, but the war is over. I work with middle school kids part time, and though my sample size is quite small, they're already ahead of the 4channers and GamerGaters, as well as the super nice well-adjusted guys and gals on the other side. Even as they're being indoctrinated by the stupidity of the world they're inheriting, they're already questioning sexism and (better yet) taking a less sexist attitude completely for granted, as integral to their personalities as being against behind-the-times-bullshit like Jim Crow was when I was a kid. Again, I'm willing to accept that I'm probably in a decent corner of the planet and seeing things skewed, but even still, dang it, I'm pretty optimistic. The bums lost, and it's why they're so mad. If you're not on the front lines, the war is a little puzzling because it's so clearly just a hot spot in the midst of a sea change: it's over.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:55
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I'm a week behind on Thumbs episodes, but holy poo poo there are 10000 holes in Desert Golf? I've got a lot of work to do.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:57
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doctorfrog posted:The bums lost, and it's why they're so mad. If you're not on the front lines, the war is a little puzzling because it's so clearly just a hot spot in the midst of a sea change: it's over. "Winning" doesn't mean you might get a good result, it sometimes just means that the other side got so demoralized that they stopped opposing you and found other avenues to cause damage. That's kind of where we're at, and do we really need to salt the ashes of the internet to prove that you shouldn't send someone a threat to "choke them with their husband's tiny asian penis (also here's your home address)." I had someone just yesterday, PM me online asking for my address "because I'll come teach you a lesson and you'll be sorry." I explained that I am a great big guy who's got a baseball bat behind my door and live in a stand your ground state, and his best retort was "I was't threatening you." I seriously had to stop myself because I was considering giving him my address, and then when he showed up asking him to leave and then assaulting him with a bat because he was then trespassing on my property - which I've carefully read up on, and I can and do have the legal right to use "up to and including lethal force" on someone who refuses to leave my property when I ask them to. That's a sick situation for all involved. (spoiler: it was because he thought I was a "snitch" for thinking that taking a picture of someone poaching salmon and then txting it to a game warden was acting responsibly, rather than being a narc.) That person was probably full of horseshit, from his facebook pics I am obviously half-again his size and I'm armed if he came to my home, but what the gently caress are you supposed to do when that happens? You can't ignore it, because it puts you into fight/flight response immediately. The fact that he is a short skinny white guy in a rasta hat doesn't matter, nor does my ability to defend myself - it's loving sick, and despite me obviously "winning" in that debate by not being a possibly-violent lunatic, he's still rolling around unopposed. 
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Oct 23, 2014 01:09
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I guess the thing I don't understand about the attitude that "the war's over" wrt Gamergate or that it's not a big deal or worth talking about anymore is, like, what the hell else is worth talking about? Videogames are terrible!coyo7e posted:You can't ignore it, because it puts you into fight/flight response immediately. No but you can just turn the computer, off, you see, you can turn the computer off, and then that data isn't being stored anywhere...... (there is a place where it stays)
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Oct 23, 2014 01:13
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You're totally right however, should the answer to someone being a terrible sack of insane behavior be "clear the area and let them continue doing what they're doing"?
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Oct 23, 2014 01:18
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The thing I was saying is that even when you walk away from the computer the place the data of the bad men is stored is in your head, which you cannot turn off without putting a bullet in it, and so the argument that interactions on the internet are all bullshit that doesn't matter or affect reasonable adults is really dumb and wrong I'm on your side I just type like a weirdo itt
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Oct 23, 2014 01:55
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C-Euro posted:I'm a week behind on Thumbs episodes, but holy poo poo there are 10000 holes in Desert Golf? I've got a lot of work to do. I only know Desert Golf by the things I've heard on podcasts and its starting to sound like a mix between Eversion and Frog Fractions and I am very, very scared.
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Oct 23, 2014 02:15
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Zombies' Downfall posted:The thing I was saying is that even when you walk away from the computer the place the data of the bad men is stored is in your head, which you cannot turn off without putting a bullet in it, and so the argument that interactions on the internet are all bullshit that doesn't matter or affect reasonable adults is really dumb and wrong I have come to this spot in my moral and ethical map where it's just all, "here there be dragons!", and I'm really kind of torn between "welp, loving stay away from dragons," and also "welp, things are gonna be bumpy but you can't hide because someone else claims there's a mythological creature here that will eat you - that's obviously a ridiculous way to navigate!" I am kind of landing on the side of "don't back down." I don't want to escalate, but I'm not going to leave the playground because of a bully. I grew up as a bully who wrongly felt that he was being unfairly treated and picked on, and these guys are in the same loving angry-victimhood syndrome which I managed to outgrow (eventually, after getting through a lot of hard things.) If it's easy, then can it be valuable? Maybe, maybe not.. Yet, if it's risky and difficult, is it inherently more valuable? I ran into a self-diagnosed aspergers-suffering videogame programmer the other day on a different site, he was railing because he found out that one college which he'd never attended, had abolished A+ grades (thus he was concerned that it would make his perfect-100s grades be less valuable than the inferior 93.7%+ grades of other job seekers), and he was also "fighting the good fight" against "ageism" (the guy is 40 years old, and when asked if he was actually encountering difficulties in finding employment due to his age, he reacted by calling me a liar and listing a bunch of fake-sounding personal accomplishments while labeling me "probably a Democrat" LOL)... The folks on that Isometric cast summarized it pretty well with the "tired of these white guys claiming how much harder it is for them." In Catcher in the Rye, a key scene involved a quote about the desire to be a martyr for a cause, which I feel is highly apropos for the whole "culture wars" bullshit going on right now with the nominal aggressors commonly painting themselves in the light of victimhood.. quote:Mr. Antolini lit another cigarette. He smoked like a fiend. Then he said, "Frankly, I don't know what the hell to say to you, Holden." Apologies for the hosed-up punctuation and lack of periods, but on top of being pretty topical to the issue, one might go on to note that "Catcher in the Rye" is a book which has been found in the possession of some really, really unbalanced people with axes to grind - and who used that axe on others, physically. Holden's hand-waving and deflection response to his own agenda being challenged, is also extremely telling because it's just what is happening today. 
coyo7e fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 02:22
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ImPureAwesome posted:I don't understand. Fire..watch? It's a tie-in to the Twin Peaks podcast they're doing. Fire Watch With Me.
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Oct 23, 2014 02:31
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coyo7e posted:things I'm not prescribing actions here. Do what you feel is the most right for you in the place that you're in. I think what I'm saying is that a lot of this stuff sounds like a call to action, "do you not see this? are you not enraged???" is sounding on both sides, and that some, but not all, of that action is really necessary. It's a rallying of support, when all the relevant support has been gathered. At this point, it's more of a drum beat. I'm not thoroughly convinced of this stance, mind you. But from where I sit (as priviliged as that may be), it's over and the losers can probably flail, flagellate, and fellate one another in the dark. The good guys can straighten their stooped posture and stop calling them names because their true natures are very evident at this point. They'll devour each other and peter out. Since it's still actively being discussed in podcasts, I guess we can kick the ball around some more here. Otherwise, maybe we can talk about these dumb sexist guys in another thread. doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 03:28
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doctorfrog posted:I'm not thoroughly convinced of this stance, mind you. But from where I sit (as priviliged as that may be), it's over and the losers can probably flail, flagellate, and fellate one another in the dark.
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Oct 23, 2014 03:38
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A recent survey showed that 10% of Americans on the internet do not know what "USA Today" is. Do you feel that enough people know what gamergate is? Walk into a random *anything* and ask the first person you see what it's about, and you'll quickly find out that only a very, very small portion of the population knows or cares what's going on. Enough that you might again start to be worried about anything actually coming to a head and forcing a change.
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Oct 23, 2014 03:41
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doctorfrog posted:Since it's still actively being discussed in podcasts, I guess we can kick the ball around some more here. Otherwise, maybe we can talk about these dumb sexist guys in another thread. It's still being actively discussed because the pretend-ethics crusaders have been become more ruthless in targeting specific individuals and have dropped the pretense of caring about anything but punishing people who make them feel uncomfortable. Yeah, anyone with half a brain worked that out long ago, but the discussion isn't just about picking sides, it's about working out what the hell to do with these shameless idiots who can't be pressured or reasoned with. Some people argue that upping the rhetoric against gamergate just galvanises the worst elements of that community and makes them more determined to lash out, but really, what other choice do people have?
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Oct 23, 2014 04:02
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