|
I think if Matsushima had just apologized and said that she hadn't thought that fans would be a problem it would have been a lot better. Instead, she insultingly demeaned this and other issue as "zatsuon" and sort of tried to claim that the fans weren't actually fans.
mystes fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Oct 21, 2014 |
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 13:19 |
|
|
MaterialConceptual posted:To varying degrees I think you're right. Japan's ranking in the "Corruption Perceptions Index" is pretty rough considering it's just above the USA and below Hong Kong the land of unaccountable government, powerful gangs, and unfettered oligarchy. Then again I don't know if it's worth putting any stock in the CPI. Hey it's not corruption if it's legal. The social problems are extremely transparent so no corruption there ! Just outright brutal
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 05:11
|
|
|
MaterialConceptual posted:To varying degrees I think you're right. Japan's ranking in the "Corruption Perceptions Index" is pretty rough considering it's just above the USA and below Hong Kong the land of unaccountable government, powerful gangs, and unfettered oligarchy. Then again I don't know if it's worth putting any stock in the CPI. If I remember correctly the CPI doesn't actually measure corruption (as that is impossible to realistically do,) instead measuring how corrupt people think their own country is. Its not an applicable statistic, in my opinion.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 07:02
|
|
|
MaterialConceptual posted:To varying degrees I think you're right. Japan's ranking in the "Corruption Perceptions Index" is pretty rough considering it's just above the USA and below Hong Kong the land of unaccountable government, powerful gangs, and unfettered oligarchy. Then again I don't know if it's worth putting any stock in the CPI. Corruption Perceptions Index. There's a whoooole lot of people sticking their head in the sand and pretending corruption doesn't exist there. As Cliff Racer said, it doesn't really mean anything, except in this case pointing out how hilariously wrong people are about their perception of the pervasiveness of corruption in Japan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 13:44
|
|
|
Sheep posted:Corruption Perceptions Index. There's a whoooole lot of people sticking their head in the sand and pretending corruption doesn't exist there. As Cliff Racer said, it doesn't really mean anything, except in this case pointing out how hilariously wrong people are about their perception of the pervasiveness of corruption in Japan. In which direction? I assume you mean that Japan is about as corrupt as you can get without descending into warlords and barbarism.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 17:00
|
|
|
I didn't even really mean corruption, I meant that wining and dining your supporters is a universal thing for politicians, whether or not the local laws support it. It doesn't become a thing as long as you stay friends with the right people, but if you have a falling out with one of them then suddenly the watchdogs are interested.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 17:23
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:I didn't even really mean corruption, I meant that wining and dining your supporters is a universal thing for politicians, whether or not the local laws support it. It doesn't become a thing as long as you stay friends with the right people, but if you have a falling out with one of them then suddenly the watchdogs are interested. In this instance it looks like the politians involved didn't use the normal middle-person channels, and just directly paid for trips for supporters and gifts, to get around the law the teams normally use travel agents etc to "launder" the gifts somewhat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:I didn't even really mean corruption, I meant that wining and dining your supporters is a universal thing for politicians, whether or not the local laws support it. It doesn't become a thing as long as you stay friends with the right people, but if you have a falling out with one of them then suddenly the watchdogs are interested. The paper fan thing is hilarious given what it takes to nail someone for corruption in the US and similar stories usually get buried unless its about gays or drugs that it doesn't seem like anything more then she made someone else in the party mad and they decided to punish her for it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 00:23
|
|
|
pentyne posted:In which direction? I assume you mean that Japan is about as corrupt as you can get without descending into warlords and barbarism. It's not quite at that level but yeah graft and nepotism are huge here - heck, many parliamentary seats are basically hereditary at this point. The fact that Japan ranks so well on the Corruption Perceptions Index likely has some tie in with some of the other mass-delusions like "Safety Japan" - to admit that things aren't all peachy keen (and thus not leagues above arch-rivals Korea, Taiwan, and China) would be a gigantic blow to national pride and psyche.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 00:58
|
|
|
It's probably also a result of general voter apathy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 01:04
|
|
|
Completely unrelated to corruption chat, but I for one would be absolutely fascinated to see what would happen here with > 90% voter turnout.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 01:09
|
|
|
Stringent posted:Completely unrelated to corruption chat, but I for one would be absolutely fascinated to see what would happen here with > 90% voter turnout. You'd still run up against the 5:1 vote disparity between the rural and urban areas. I would also be fascinated by it, but it's unclear what would actually change. The voter apathy in Japan isn't just about the idea of going out and voting. The apathy is a more a general political apathy that extends to the political issues being discussed. My guess is that you would see more movement on banning nuclear power, banning lots of food imports from China, more saber-rattling about Japan not signing on to TPP, and not much else.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
Initially sure, but no matter how apathetic voters are, the people trying to get elected are not. That's more what I had in mind, if voting were compulsory, like in Australia, what kind of things would politicians start offering people in order to court their votes?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 01:52
|
|
|
Stringent posted:Initially sure, but no matter how apathetic voters are, the people trying to get elected are not. That's more what I had in mind, if voting were compulsory, like in Australia, what kind of things would politicians start offering people in order to court their votes? Xenophobic rhetoric, much like Australia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 01:54
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Xenophobic rhetoric, much like Australia. So your impression of the Japanese people is that the heretofore silent majority shares the same views as the zaitokukai or whatever? This runs counter to my experience, but I've only ever lived in Tokyo. Everyone I know thinks those guys are a bunch of assholes who need to get out and get laid or something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 02:02
|
|
|
Stringent posted:So your impression of the Japanese people is that the heretofore silent majority shares the same views as the zaitokukai or whatever? The silent majority remain silent, so their opinions don't matter really. If Japanese politicians actually needed to run for office against opposition, there would certainly be several xenophobic parties. (Lots of Australians are embarrassed about their politics too.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
Stringent posted:So your impression of the Japanese people is that the heretofore silent majority shares the same views as the zaitokukai or whatever? That's an extreme interpretation of his point, but his point is still valid. Most of it isn't, "Let's kick out the foreign menace!", but there's still a lot of casual soft xenophobia. Most of it is couched as concern-trolling like, "We have concerns about foreign nurses being hired." that end up with massive roadblocks being put in place. You're right that the majority of Japanese people do not believe themselves to be xenophobic, but the number of casually-held xenophobic views is significant. Basically, they'd just end up using dog whistles which a shocking percentage of the public would probably agree with. ErIog fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Oct 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 03:10
|
|
|
ErIog posted:"We have concerns about foreign nurses being hired."
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 03:28
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:Where has this issue gone in the years since I have lived there, anyway? Anywhere at all? IIRC the first few batches of nurses that have went through the program only like a single digits percent passed. And of those even less stayed. A lot of people went back home fully trained. Turned this up. http://ajw.asahi.com/article/views/editorial/AJ201303300030 I guess they will wait for robots.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 04:04
|
|
|
Madd0g11 posted:IIRC the first few batches of nurses that have went through the program only like a single digits percent passed. And of those even less stayed. A lot of people went back home fully trained.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
ErIog posted:That's an extreme interpretation of his point, but his point is still valid. Most of it isn't, "Let's kick out the foreign menace!", but there's still a lot of casual soft xenophobia. Most of it is couched as concern-trolling like, "We have concerns about foreign nurses being hired." that end up with massive roadblocks being put in place. So given compulsory voting in Japan, the only thing you can see politicians here offering previously non-voting people in order to court their votes is xenophobia? Honestly, I think that speaks more of y'all than the Japanese public.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 04:35
|
|
|
Stringent posted:So given compulsory voting in Japan, the only thing you can see politicians here offering previously non-voting people in order to court their votes is xenophobia? What do you offer someone who doesn't care? Answer: nothing. You instead give them a reason to care. The most base reason to care: Protecting you/your family/your way of life from being ruined. That's xenophobia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 04:40
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:I figured they had eventually said no in one way or another. What old Japanese guy is going to be ok with being doted over by non-Japanese nurses? I agree with this, but the way you've phrased it is funny since a lot of old Japanese guys pay a lot of money to be "doted on" by non-Japanese ladies at various upstanding establishments that are legitimate places of business which follow all labor laws and treat their workers with respect.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 04:47
|
|
|
ErIog posted:I agree with this, but the way you've phrased it is funny since a lot of old Japanese guys pay a lot of money to be "doted on" by non-Japanese ladies at various upstanding establishments that are legitimate places of business which follow all labor laws and treat their workers with respect.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 04:49
|
|
|
Maybe that's their thing?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 05:02
|
|
|
They'll want a Japanese woman experienced in soaking up the abuse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 05:23
|
|
|
drilldo squirt posted:Maybe that's their thing? Over robots? Man maybe I just misunderstand men but I'd think they'd prefer any real breasts, foreign or not, over the Bride of Pinbot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 05:25
|
|
|
From what I can gather having read discussions by actual medical professionals, a lot of the resistance is from Japanese nurses who don't want the competition which will bring down wages. There are a lot of incentives being offered right now for going through nursing training (educational subsidies, etc.), and they aren't going to give those up without a fight.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 05:38
|
|
|
There's also hiring discrimination like crazy. I doubt it even gets down to the end-user level of, "I don't want a foreign nurse taking care of me." I bet a lot of places these foreign nurses would be applying are just tossing their applications in the trash for fear that they would upset the harmony of the workplace.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 05:49
|
|
|
Protocol 5 posted:From what I can gather having read discussions by actual medical professionals, a lot of the resistance is from Japanese nurses who don't want the competition which will bring down wages. There are a lot of incentives being offered right now for going through nursing training (educational subsidies, etc.), and they aren't going to give those up without a fight.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 05:57
|
|
|
The lack of nurses is the reason why nursing education is subsidized and salaries are high. The strongest opposition from within hospitals to bringing and training foreign nurses is the Japanese nurses who don't want to compete with people who will work for significantly lower wages. Most doctors don't really seem to care one way or the other provided the nurses are properly trained, and patients will take what they can get. If you can't wrap your head around why the Japanese nurses aren't exactly thrilled with the idea of having their good salaries undercut, even if it is for the future of glorious Nippon, I don't know what to tell you. Systemic issues kind of take a back seat when it's your paycheck.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 10:42
|
|
|
Stringent posted:So your impression of the Japanese people is that the heretofore silent majority shares the same views as the zaitokukai or whatever? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxL383jN484 The head of Zaitokukai, Makoto Sakurai, and Osaka mayor Hashimoto got into a shouting match the other day. Notable is that Hashimoto, who I don't agree with 99% of the time, straight out says "we don't need your kind in this city" and calls Sakurai racist, to which Sakurai gets defensive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 12:18
|
|
|
ErIog posted:There's also hiring discrimination like crazy. I doubt it even gets down to the end-user level of, "I don't want a foreign nurse taking care of me." I bet a lot of places these foreign nurses would be applying are just tossing their applications in the trash for fear that they would upset the harmony of the workplace. From what I remember, a lot of the foreign nurses who pass wind up leaving because they get given all the poo poo work (literally, I imagine) and never actually given any real responsibilities or duties, just whatever the Japanese staff doesn't want to do. Then they leave when their obligations are up and Japan whines about "we trained these people and let them come to glorious Nippon and they don't even stay!" when they decide to leave for greener pastures because they are, after all, experienced nurses well before they even set foot in Japan and can easily find work in like Europe or something. Navaash posted:The head of Zaitokukai, Makoto Sakurai, and Osaka mayor Hashimoto got into a shouting match the other day. Notable is that Hashimoto, who I don't agree with 99% of the time, straight out says "we don't need your kind in this city" and calls Sakurai racist, to which Sakurai gets defensive. Good to see Hashimoto finally did something commendable. Sheep fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Oct 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 13:07
|
|
|
Didn't he have Ishihara down there for meetings?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 13:48
|
|
|
Yeah, but Ishihara is an influential racist.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 15:37
|
|
|
Navaash posted:Funny you mentioned them:
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 15:49
|
|
|
Navaash posted:Funny you mentioned them: This is amazing. But what is こっかいぎんうえ(what it sounded like to me), Hashimoto said it a few times. I'm assuming it relates to the Diet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2014 00:21
|
|
|
Kenishi posted:This is amazing. But what is こっかいぎんうえ(what it sounded like to me), Hashimoto said it a few times. I'm assuming it relates to the Diet. Not 100% on context, but it's 国会議員に言え - 'tell it to a member of the Diet'. I think he's telling the Zaitokukai guy to complain to parliament if he believes there is abuse of privileges by Zainichi Koreans with special permanent residency, instead of spouting hateful rhetoric to the public.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2014 00:45
|
|
|
ozza posted:Not 100% on context, but it's 国会議員に言え - 'tell it to a member of the Diet'. I think he's telling the Zaitokukai guy to complain to parliament if he believes there is abuse of privileges by Zainichi Koreans with special permanent residency, instead of spouting hateful rhetoric to the public.  Ya that's it. I should have known that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2014 01:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 13:19 |
|
|
Robot nurse, hurry the gently caress up Japan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2014 02:02
|
|