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Aida has also gotten the most character development at this point in time. Until this week's episode I could only guess at what Bellri's motivations were. Not that I dislike Bellri (he's great when he's playing off everyone else) but it sounds like they're finally going to start taking his character somewhere next week. Anyways I do genuinely enjoy how Aida has been handled and I really do want to see how they resolve her differences with Bellri, I think it's p good that she's hella conflicted about the whole thing despite Bellri seemingly being prepared to help them out. Srice fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 02:17
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Srice posted:Aida has also gotten the most character development at this point in time. Until this week's episode I could only guess at what Bellri's motivations were. Hey look, we agree on something! I actually do agree that Aida has gotten a lot of characterization. I don't think it is especially flattering, but I have a lot more knowledge of what the gently caress is up with her than Bellri or Braindead McGee.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:26
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Let's talk about Bellri for a moment. Does he actually feel any guilt over killing Cahill, or is he just using that as a pretext for staying aboard the Megafauna? I'm not even sure at this point, in all honesty.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:43
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I want to say he's not actually guilty about it since as far as he knows it was self-defence (and/or the G Self did it on its own), but it's obviously tearing up Aida so he still feels kind of bad about it.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:46
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Yeah, that was might take on it as well. They're not mutually exclusive feelings.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:49
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Bellris mom is the director of operations for the entire capital tower. She oversees all of its day to day operation, and the generation and allocation of energy to the entire world. She doesn't have power over the new capital army but presumably the only person she's directly accountable to is the spacepope. They've mentioned it before.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:11
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Bellri is more defined by his relationship to her than she is to him. Working so hard for so long also seems to leave her little time to spend with her son, which might also explain why Bellri is the way he is.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:13
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There are some interesting parallels between the Capital's technological taboo, I think Tomino's trying to make some kind of commentary on Abe's expansion of the SDF. At the same time, he also seems to be criticising America's pre-WW2 oil embargo. So he's critical of Capital Tower, and in doing so critical of both Japan and America. I still think that Capital is being portrayed as a deliberately sexist and patriarchal society, there's only a single woman in an authority role, and she's an older woman who's been there long enough that no one can get in her way. The Amerians seem a bit more equal.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:28
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Sharkopath posted:Bellri is more defined by his relationship to her than she is to him. As does a nitrogen rich atmosphere or a sharp blow to the head.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:33
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Caros posted:As does a nitrogen rich atmosphere or a sharp blow to the head. Says the dude who couldn't figure out what his mom does even though they mentioned it like 3 times, lol.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:37
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I love Klim and Bellri's interactions and relationship. They constantly snipe at each other to the point of casually putting each other in submission holds but Klim actually seems to respect Bellri quite a bit, which is surprising for a character like him. Normally when you have a self-declared genius character running into someone who can match his competence and/or can do something he can't do their attitude turns ugly, but Klim genuinely seems to want Bellri on his side.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:39
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Klim recognizes skill when he sees it: His true genius is as a talent scout. 
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Oct 25, 2014 03:42
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Kanos posted:I love Klim and Bellri's interactions and relationship. They constantly snipe at each other to the point of casually putting each other in submission holds but Klim actually seems to respect Bellri quite a bit, which is surprising for a character like him. Normally when you have a self-declared genius character running into someone who can match his competence and/or can do something he can't do their attitude turns ugly, but Klim genuinely seems to want Bellri on his side. Klim seems like a dude who is arrogant and vain as hell but does genuinely care a lot about his friends and allies. He's a paper tiger hiding a teddy bear. 
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Oct 25, 2014 03:45
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Kanos posted:I love Klim and Bellri's interactions and relationship. They constantly snipe at each other to the point of casually putting each other in submission holds but Klim actually seems to respect Bellri quite a bit, which is surprising for a character like him. Normally when you have a self-declared genius character running into someone who can match his competence and/or can do something he can't do their attitude turns ugly, but Klim genuinely seems to want Bellri on his side. I think what his deal is is that he's pretty drat sure he should be in charge because of his genius  , but he also knows how he's supposed to treat subordinates.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:53
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Sharkopath posted:Says the dude who couldn't figure out what his mom does even though they mentioned it like 3 times, lol. Says the dude who thinks the cast of G-Reco is 'mostly' women despite being almost entirely men. At least I can count. I wasn't confused as to her title, I was confused as to what she loving does, because the show doesn't tell me. quote:Bellris mom is the director of operations for the entire capital tower. She oversees all of its day to day operation, and the generation and allocation of energy to the entire world. She doesn't have power over the new capital army but presumably the only person she's directly accountable to is the spacepope. They've mentioned it before. The only hint I've actually seen in the show that she controls anything of the allocation of energy is when she complains that they'll have to cut Ameria's rations, which is of course phrased as a "we'll have to do this". She dresses in a military uniform which would imply she has command of at least some of the capital guard forces, but no one listens to her at all, and I don't think we've actually seen her issuing orders. Hell, the fact that she says "My crown has been repainted" when talking about the elevator suggested to me that she is only one of many directors. Yay for clarity.
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Oct 25, 2014 04:52
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Caros posted:Hell, the fact that she says "My crown has been repainted" when talking about the elevator suggested to me that she is only one of many directors. Yay for clarity. Actually I took that as more "those loving Army guys have stolen one of my crowns  " rather than that specific one being hers.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:18
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Actually I took that as more "those loving Army guys have stolen one of my crowns Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the intended reading.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:22
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They also repainted it in forest camo, I guess to better hide amongst all the dense foliage in space.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:25
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Pureauthor posted:They also repainted it in forest camo, I guess to better hide amongst all the dense foliage in space. I got such a kick out of that. Nothing says military inefficiency at its finest like pointless camo just to look more 'tactical'.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:27
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Caros posted:I got such a kick out of that. Nothing says military inefficiency at its finest like pointless camo just to look more 'tactical'. It's stupid as hell, but it's a quick bit of visual shorthand in a short scene to show that it belongs to the Army so I'm not complaining too much.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:33
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's stupid as hell, but it's a quick bit of visual shorthand in a short scene to show that it belongs to the Army so I'm not complaining too much. It's stupid as hell, and something the capital army would very much do. These are the same dudes who spent hours setting up all their caitsiths to holding banners for a private party that nobody else was going to see.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:45
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Caros posted:Says the dude who thinks the cast of G-Reco is 'mostly' women despite being almost entirely men. At least I can count. That's just wrong though, especially now that we are away from the capital and on the pirate ship.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:46
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Like even at the smallest unit it's two women who can pilot the gundam, and bellri.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:48
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Sharkopath posted:It's stupid as hell, and something the capital army would very much do. Hey. Hey. We are a very serious army doing serious army things and you should take us seriously: 
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Oct 25, 2014 05:49
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Caros posted:Says the dude who thinks the cast of G-Reco is 'mostly' women despite being almost entirely men. At least I can count. So can anyone looking at the end credits. It's a pretty even match along both dance lines.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:50
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Neddy Seagoon posted:So can anyone looking at the end credits. It's a pretty even match along both dance lines. Yeah it's a pretty even split, but so much of the pirate and amerian crew are women that right now the cast of the show is stacked in their favor, its cool. More widespread representation of women in a franchise that usually only caters to boys and men is nice to have.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:53
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Yeah, this is a group for whom pomp and ceremony have been a vital part of their national policy for what sounds like centuries. Anyway, the political structure in the Capital Territories is really interesting, but not that hard to follow. It appears that Belri's mom is the director. She's in charge of everything to do with running the whole facility/country. She's the president (which makes Mr. Genius a good rival/friend for our protagonist). However she seems to derive her power from His Holiness, in a system not unlike modern Iran, where they have a secular president that runs the country, but who rules on behalf of the Ayatollah. This is where things seem to break down for her, as the Research and Development branch seems to be a parallel power structure. I guess since it didn't directly have to do with operations, it doesn't fall under Belri's mom's purview. Instead the only thing they have to worry about is approval from the Ayatollah. Between the R&D head and His Holiness there seems to have been an arrangement made. We don't know who's idea it was, but the situation has resulted in the ancient taboos being flagrantly violated... which means poo poo's really serious, as the Capital Territories are the ones who benefited most from the taboos. I guess they knew enough of Belri's mom to know she wouldn't approve, but at the same time she must be a competent manager, as she is not being replaced but merely sidestepped with a new branch of power being created outside her control. I get that you want to poo poo on this show, Caros, and if your only point was that it wasn't exactly a feminist ideal, I'd agree with you. But you're just not paying attention if you don't think Belri's mom is a well-developed character, with a complex story of her own, who's been receiving a good portion of the spotlight. (We pretty much see all the Capital stuff of consequence through her eyes.) And honestly, this is an anime. My expectations in terms of feminist stuff is just about rock bottom. So the fact that a major character who is a woman who is not an attractive young girl even exists is pretty much mind-blowing to me. I'm a huge fan of her character. (Which makes it super embarrassing that I can't remember he name.) But seriously- try and name major female characters in anime who are neither cute nor sexy. It's a truly depressing exercise. I'm glad we're past making fun of Aida for crying, for the most part. I still think it's earned and is powerful character development. Her story is about her powerlessness, though. Which, I'd agree, isn't the most fun or groundbreaking role she could have in the story. But it's not like it's inherently demeaning. I think it's being fairly well done. She's not a weak character. She can control herself. This episode was all about her doing her duty, despite a huge emotional burden. She smiled and thanked Belri to his face, and only broke down when she was in (relative) private. It's an interesting story, and I'm hoping it goes interesting places.
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Oct 25, 2014 06:08
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Eiba posted:(Which makes it super embarrassing that I can't remember he name.) Wilmit, I believe. I think they mostly refer to her as just "Operations Director," so it's not terribly surprising.
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Oct 25, 2014 06:20
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Neddy Seagoon posted:So can anyone looking at the end credits. It's a pretty even match along both dance lines. It's actually exactly even because they intend it to be exactly even, not because it is representative of the cast. Lets do a fun experiment. Name them or point out where you have seen them in the show. There are 14 on each dancing line. For the Guys: Colonel Klink, Space Pope, Not Char, Best Character, Some guy, some guy, pilot, Captain Zinnerman from unicorn, Head Mechanic, Navigator, That mechanic who yells a lot, That guy who tried to punch Not Char, Some guy who is probably from space, and Bellri. 10/14. I think #5-6-7 might have appeared but I don't remember them. #13 is probably a space guy so we won't have seen him. For the Girls: Aida, Helmsman, Mama director, someone, someone, space someone, blonde who had three lines, first officer, lady who doesn't want to touch Bell's junk, someone, someone, someone from space, Monday, Cheerleader. 8/14, and of them only Aida, Mama, Monday and Cheerleader have featured in any significant way. Of the girls in the conga line only seven have had lines that I can recall. Of the ten guys I can recall every single one getting at least one line, if not more. The guy's lineup is also missing Captain Cahiiiiiiiil and the guy who is going to die next episode. The women's board has already scrapped the bottom of the barrel to fill it out, while the male version had to omit characters. I think more telling still is the fact that men get roughly double the screen time and literally twice the number of speakers (unless you count the cheerleaders cheer the count is 15-8 on my rewatch) to say nothing of spoken lines. I'm not saying the show doesn't have a decent number of female main characters, but as I pointed out you can say the same thing about Gundam Seed. So saying something like this: quote:Yeah it's a pretty even split, but so much of the pirate and amerian crew are women that right now the cast of the show is stacked in their favor, its cool. Is blatantly untrue. Even if you ignore all the extras (who are almost all men) you've got this for the split: Men: Captain, Klim, Head Mechanic, Tech Engineer, Guy on the bridge, Cahill (rip), and some random pilot who got a line this episode so I'm counting him. Women: Aida, Helmsman, First officer, Not-Ms.Matilda Seven-Four, pretty much an even split. I guess you could bump that as seven-six if you count Cheerleader and Monday even though they don't do anything. quote:I get that you want to poo poo on this show, Caros, and if your only point was that it wasn't exactly a feminist ideal, I'd agree with you. But you're just not paying attention if you don't think Belri's mom is a well-developed character, with a complex story of her own, who's been receiving a good portion of the spotlight. (We pretty much see all the Capital stuff of consequence through her eyes.) Actually I don't want to hate this show or poo poo on it. I don't think this show is doing any worse or any better than your typical Gundam show in terms of feminism. Its just when I see bullshit lines about how the females on this show are totally empowered, and look at how the cast is pretty much split it pisses me off. Gundam loving SEED had three female bridge crew, including a female captain and a female first officer. Seed Destiny had a female captain for every one of the show's capital ships, along with an abundance of female bridge crew. Gundam SEED is not a very feminist show by any stretch of the imagination, so the idea that this is somehow something new or something to be proud of is just bullshit. Its a step up from bikini suicide squad, but lets not pretend that it is something it's not. I wasn't even going to say anything in the thread before shark started on about how great it was that we finally have a gundam show with equality, even though almost none of the female characters have any agency or lines to speak of. Caros fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 06:48
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Equality and more representation are not equivalent statements, but I'm very glad you went into ultimate tonedeaf pedant mode to prove me wrong.
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Oct 25, 2014 06:57
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Your count is wrong also, so you didn't even do the pedant part right.
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Oct 25, 2014 06:58
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Sharkopath posted:Equality and more representation are not equivalent statements, but I'm very glad you went into ultimate tonedeaf pedant mode to prove me wrong. Hmmm... quote:Yeah but Grecos cast is mostly women. quote:Also this cast is full of women characters, the vast majority of it is women in varying roles accomplishing various things. It's the most loaded in terms of robot shows I think I've seen. quote:yeah I apologize if it came off that way, I'm just trying to stress how seriously there are so many women characters in this show. Wow, its almost like you are completely full of poo poo.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:00
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The women in G-Reco have agency, and there are a lot of them, and I like their characters a lot and would like to see more of them.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:01
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A really cool thing about the story so far is that bellri is actually an incredibly passive character, most of his traits and personality are derived from how other people treat him, and Aida is actually the driving force of the plot. Aida's really cool too because she shares a lot of features with Sochie Heim, who is my favorite woman character in a gundam show. They're both young women who have been forced by outside pressures to adopt a role and responsibility that they were left very unprepared for, and hopefully watching the overall journey for her will end up as satisfying.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:15
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The big names at the Capital remind me of the Zabi family, with Colonel Cumpa being Gihren, his Holiness being Degwin, and Bellri's mother being Kycilia. They even look similar, visually. And, well, let's not forget what happened with Gihren and Kycilia at the end of Gundam 0079.
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Oct 25, 2014 15:47
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I wonder if the water balls are just whatever the storage tank for the su-cordist energy is, and the pirates filled it full of water, like its a hyper pressurizer or something. Bellri seemed to think it was crazy they had them.
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Oct 26, 2014 02:00
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Sharkopath posted:I wonder if the water balls are just whatever the storage tank for the su-cordist energy is, and the pirates filled it full of water, like its a hyper pressurizer or something. Yes, compressing water is loving insane.
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Oct 26, 2014 02:16
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If you're looking for anime to advance your favorite social justice issues, I'd say you're looking in the wrong loving place. Also literally the only reason the captains in SEED were female is so they could cut to a shot of their boobs shaking whenever the ship got hit.
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Oct 26, 2014 02:27
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Sharkopath posted:I wonder if the water balls are just whatever the storage tank for the su-cordist energy is, and the pirates filled it full of water, like its a hyper pressurizer or something. I took that as him realizing that the pirates were actually a military unit, not just suspecting them of being one. The tech was testing if they were still usable as they were a bit worn out, unlike a new unit which would have recently been stolen from the capital.
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Oct 26, 2014 02:27
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The Missing Link posted:Yes, compressing water is loving insane. Since they seem to be light enough to put half a dozen in a box and it was hanging from a thin cable, they probably don't "compress" the water.
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Oct 26, 2014 02:28
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