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DoctorWhat posted:I think the "forgetting" was meant to be more metaphorical than literal. Yeah absolutely it was, though that really doesn't work particularly well with global communication and the easy accessibility of information in the modern age. The whole story had a strong disconnect between the local and global, and again I was reminded of the RTD era where the episodes would have events that should have had gigantic and massive changes on the entire population of the Earth but had no impact at all. If a forest suddenly covered the entire planet (or even "just" London) I'd still expect there to be tens of thousands of people wandering about on the "streets" anyway, as opposed to a work crew of about 5 Government dudes, a mom on a bicycle and a small class of kids on a field trip. The only thing that would have made this story more RTD-like is if they'd shown a middle class family huddled together in fear in their living room, with maybe a crash zoom on some trees sitting menacingly close to the window.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:23
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah absolutely it was, though that really doesn't work particularly well with global communication and the easy accessibility of information in the modern age. There would be literally a billion photos of the forest that sprung up overnight on Facebook by the end of the episode.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:27
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Noxville posted:There would be literally a billion photos of the forest that sprung up overnight on Facebook by the end of the episode. They even go out of their way to have the kids taking selfies throughout the entire episode!
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Oct 25, 2014 22:30
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Seriously, Clara may as well have personally taken a gun to the head of every one of those kids, and the Doctor did not give one single poo poo. Sure you can still hang out with me in my magic floating armoire. But don't go stealing USB 55.0 from the future or else you get left behind.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:35
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I'm most concerned by how the situation was resolved by deliberately withholding brain medication from a mentally ill child.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:38
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qntm posted:I'm most concerned by how the situation was resolved by deliberately withholding brain medication from a mentally ill child. Did you miss the part where she wasn't ever mentally ill?
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Oct 25, 2014 22:40
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Jerusalem posted:The whole story had a strong disconnect between the local and global
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Oct 25, 2014 22:44
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VextheGrey posted:Did you miss the part where she wasn't ever mentally ill? A child is obviously having some kind of stress reaction, her friends are screaming at the adults to give her the pills she needs to be well again - the Doctor shouts them all down. He can't prove she's not ill, he doesn't know her, and he's arguing against giving the kid help. It's just worrying.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:48
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VextheGrey posted:Did you miss the part where she wasn't ever mentally ill? Yeah she just heard voices her entire life , and had been diagnosed with a metal illness and was taking medication for it. Sure in this particular case this was the worst thing ever and it was actually the trees talking to her. But is that really the case 99% of the time ? It feels a bit wrong for the moral of the story to be stop taking your medication; the voices are telling you the right thing.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:51
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VextheGrey posted:Did you miss the part where she wasn't ever mentally ill? How do we know that anyone diagnosed mentally ill actually is?!? Stop taking your zombie pills, sheeple.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:53
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I enjoyed that quite a lot, despite how ridiculous the whole thing was. The Doctor, Clara and Danny trio works really well. As for the next episode preview- man that looks terrible.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:54
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qntm posted:I'm most concerned by how the situation was resolved by deliberately withholding brain medication from a mentally ill child. Yeah that's gonna be the biggest "lovely message" of the series, by far. The abortion stuff in Kill the Moon was at least complex and considered enough that a pro-choice reading thereof isn't a real stretch, but as someone who relies on psychiatric medication myself and have done since childhood, this pissed me the heck off. You just KNOW anti-meds whackjobs are going to take advantage of this one.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:00
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marktheando posted:I enjoyed that quite a lot, despite how ridiculous the whole thing was. The Doctor, Clara and Danny trio works really well. vv 
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Oct 25, 2014 23:02
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I was dumb, Clara WAS one of the teachers supervising the night at the museum. For some reason I missed that and thought she was just eagerly running around outside trying to contact the Doctor to come see, then ran into Danny and the kids. It's me, I'm the guy who is bad at watching television and the reason they throw in all those unnecessary flashbacks and voiceovers to explain what is happening 
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Oct 25, 2014 23:03
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dsub posted:Can you be more specific because I'd really like to see the good side of this episode despite how caustic I've been about it. Are we supposed to like Danny or is he just there to pour cold water over everything? I don't know if I can articulate it too well, except to say that I like Danny, and the dynamic between him and the kids was fun.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:09
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dsub posted:Yes, it wasn't about the characters, it was about everyone admiring the scenario for half the episode. They spiced it up with a tiger, and then with the end of the world. We know that won't happen, though, because it's Doctor Who and he'll save the world with his magic wand. The only surprising thing about the ending was that the Doctor was completely impotent and it all went away of it's own accord, which was frankly extremely disappointing. What a wreck. So that's the *SECOND* loving time this season the Doctor has been utterly useless and didn't even need to be there and the problem just MAGICALLY GOES AWAY loving Hell
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Oct 25, 2014 23:11
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Burkion posted:So that's the *SECOND* loving time this season the Doctor has been utterly useless and didn't even need to be there and the problem just MAGICALLY GOES AWAY Counterpoint: many great stories have featured the Doctor as a marginal presence or observer. Planet of the Ood, for instance. Ood Sigma had it all worked out, Ten and Donna just went along with it. And it's great.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:14
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Autonomous Monster posted:CALM DOWN My word, Doctor Who is not taking itself seriously? 
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Oct 25, 2014 23:15
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In the Forest of the Night gifs       
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Oct 25, 2014 23:23
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DoctorWhat posted:Counterpoint: many great stories have featured the Doctor as a marginal presence or observer. Planet of the Ood, for instance. Ood Sigma had it all worked out, Ten and Donna just went along with it. And it's great. They saved lives however and did STUFF along the way. And it ultimately proved important for the Tenth Doctor as a character to be there. Here it literally wouldn't have mattered if they were there or not. They did jack poo poo and learned nothing from it.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:33
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Burkion posted:They saved lives however and did STUFF along the way. And it ultimately proved important for the Tenth Doctor as a character to be there. Well, we can't tell how "important" this story is going to be, retroactively, until there's been some time to build on it. And they did, and learned, loads. Clara and Danny made progress on their relationship; the Doctor revealed/realized that he really does think of Earth as his "home"... stuff happened. It just wasn't sonic-ing some tree-machine or whatever.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:37
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On the other hand, "A Coke is only this big, but it contains this much sugar" is one hundred percent accurate, relevant information which more people should know.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:41
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DoctorWhat posted:Well, we can't tell how "important" this story is going to be, retroactively, until there's been some time to build on it. What progress? It's the same to and fro we've seen throughout. And the Doctor giving a poo poo about humanity is a reveal?! I know you're hardcore about this stuff but these are mere crumbs in an otherwise barren episode. I need big meaty chunks damnit 
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Oct 25, 2014 23:50
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qntm posted:On the other hand, "A Coke is only this big, but it contains this much sugar" is one hundred percent accurate, relevant information which more people should know. That might be my favourite way the Doctor's ever explained the TARDIS. Capaldi's really good at 'wacky uncle' Doctor. And Maebh's taking it in stride with an "I'm a kid, I assumed this is normal and grown-ups just didn't tell me" attitude was great. I found this one lightweight, but charming, and the Doctor's protestation that "This is my world too. I walk your earth, I breathe your air..." was great and might end up being one of Twelve's big defining moments for me.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:53
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dsub posted:What progress? It's the same to and fro we've seen throughout. And the Doctor giving a poo poo about humanity is a reveal?! I know you're hardcore about this stuff but these are mere crumbs in an otherwise barren episode. I need big meaty chunks damnit there's a difference between "giving a poo poo about humanity" and "earth is my home". The Fourth Doctor, who ~walks in eternity~, would never consider Earth his home even in the hypothetical absence of Gallifrey. This is clearly something that only the Twelfth Doctor, so far, has felt comfortable feeling and expressing - not event the Third Doctor would make that assertion, despite it being objectively true for years.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:54
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He didn't say it was his home, he said it was "his world, too." When he leaves, Clara tells the kids he's gone home. It was nice to see some warmth and affection from him given how cold he's been for most of the season, but I think that's all it was.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:18
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Well The Doctor needed to be there to prevent humans from loving up the planet's natural defensive system. I think that's a good idea for a "threat" and it's a shame that it was introduced way too late and resolved really poorly. If the episode had focused more on efforts to remove the trees (maybe with The Doctor helping at first) before having The Doctor learn about the flare and then changing sides and stopping the operation with some clever trick then that would have made the episode a lot less boring and aimless, I think. Speaking of which they definitely leaned on the twist too heavily, I mean "So the trees are there to protect Earth" was actually the first thing I thought of when the solar flare was introduced, and it took me a while to catch up with the idea that they could be hostile.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:26
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My first thought was,"Maybe the trees are evil and are going to kill humans with gentle breezes that make them go mad!" but then I realized that only an idiot wouldn't immediately discount that idea, and no self-respecting writer would ever produce such a story.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:31
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Robot Uprising posted:Yeah she just heard voices her entire life Didn't the voices start only after her sister disappeared?
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Oct 26, 2014 00:32
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Well that was absolute dogshit and next week's doesn't look much better.It's such a disappointment that Capaldi is being wasted on episodes like that.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:33
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saucerman posted:Didn't the voices start only after her sister disappeared? I'm pretty sure that's what they said, yeah. That said, having the Doctor out right say,"Somebody starts hearing voices and you give them medication?  " was a pretty terrible message to throw out there. Being more specific to Maebh's situation would have been a lot better than such a blanket statement.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErWSYJYKM-Q This thread is stupid sometimes. Capaldi has gotten into his dotty Doctor stride, the kids were great and some people talk to the trees. Don't come crying to me next week.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:44
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Well that sure was a show. Why did only one parent seem to care at all where their kid was during this crisis? Why did she not even call the school and instead wandered into this mystery forest that still allowed bike paths to run through it? Possibly because the child was the only kid who wasn't awful in every regard. Not really a fan of this season's "Everybody gets into the TARDIS" theme. Maybe Chatterton made a deal with the Doctor to let every Coal Hill student get one free ride. Also I am assuming when we weren't looking, the Doctor soniced away any and all pictures taken on board. My other little gripe, and it it just me being snarky, because kids are stupid but why would the kid leave her phone as the first piece of her trail? Stupid kid, you shoulda gotten eaten by
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Oct 26, 2014 00:53
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Why,at no point,did any of the kids say "Hey,weren't you the caretaker a few weeks ago?
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Oct 26, 2014 01:02
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marktheando posted:I don't know if I can articulate it too well, except to say that I like Danny, and the dynamic between him and the kids was fun.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:06
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I thought that was a great episode. And no, the moral of the episode wasn't don't take brain meds, anti medication people are not goig to hold this up as propoganda. Swan Curry posted:Why,at no point,did any of the kids say "Hey,weren't you the caretaker a few weeks ago? Because none of them would have interacted with him as the caretaker, it wasn't like he was teaching them how to mop floors. Teek posted:Ehh, wasn't a big fan of that. I like that there was a call back to something earlier this season with the previous flare. It looks like it's tying into Missy in some way, so if it gets fleshed out or explained in the finale, then I might retroactively appreciate it a bit more. Otherwise is was pretty drat boring. What do you mean "tying it in some way"? It was fairly obvious that Missy was directly involved in causing the solar flare and meant to destroy the Earth. Mr Beens fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 01:06
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ewe2 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErWSYJYKM-Q Then the story didn't go anywhere for a while. Okay. It was building tension. Then it went really, really stupid places. Like I guess I feel like a bit of a heartless nerd, but the science was unspeakably dumb. It would have made a lot more scientific sense if they actually called it magic. Like, they go out of their way to do things like mention Tunguska... which means they must know about and understand Tunguska... but then they get it so loving entirely wrong. There's no excuse for that! It's not ignorance, it's just... lying! But okay. Whatever. I can fix that with my brain. It was actually magic, and the doctor didn't say those things. Was the good then? No. The emotional climax involved Clara casually telling the Doctor to just let them all die. It wasn't just dumb, it was cruel. Yeah, they'd miss their parents. All else being equal, they should be with them. But they should not die with their parents if their parents are doomed. That's just... horrifically cruel. I'm not even twisting things. This isn't even some sort of, "well, I could twist it to make it feel bad" type of thing. Clara wanted the kids to stay behind and die because otherwise they'd miss their parents. Literally, with no tweaking on my part, "better dead than sad". I'll give the show this, I was actually on board with the "Doctor doesn't have to do anything but make sure humans don't gently caress it up" story. I think that says an interesting thing about the world and the Doctor's role in it. So... if I liked the premise, the characters, and the conclusion, it should be okay, right? No. It was brain-dead cruel garbage because of everything in the middle. The writers seem like they just gave up and didn't think anything through, and produced garbage as a result. The only way I could enjoy this was if I just deliberately ignored vast swathes of it. I will say this isn't an issue with Capaldi, or even this season. Last episode got everything right. It was creepy, it was funny, it had really compelling characters- both sympathetic and unsympathetic ones. The (entirely fantasy) ideas were well presented, coherent, and interesting. It was inherently kind (Clara's disregard for those she lost is condemned by the show as horrible). It succeeded at pretty much everything this episode failed at. These aren't impossible expectations. This episode just... was dreadful.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:19
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The actual main plot this week could've used a couple more lookovers, but hey if Moffat was fine with it, who are we to argue?  The finale preview makes me kinda cringe, was kinda liking this (what I felt) experimental season which felt more like The Clara Show featuring The Doctor at times which I really liked. Time to go back to Moffat plot vomit for the finale though where they throw in wibbly wobbly timey whimey in to confuse everyone. Seriously I don't care about the context but the "Clara Oswald never existed line" physically made me cringe.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:22
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Sober posted:The actual main plot this week could've used a couple more lookovers, but hey if Moffat was fine with it, who are we to argue? The viewers who have to watch and enjoy it.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:42
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Sober posted:The actual main plot this week could've used a couple more lookovers, but hey if Moffat was fine with it, who are we to argue? 
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Oct 26, 2014 01:42
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