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well let me rephrase that. you do need swap for stuff like oracle because it hogs up a chunk of memory and 'manages' it. as in the kernel vm management can't page out anything
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Oct 26, 2014 23:27
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but then youre probably not running oracle because youre just a peasant who wants desktop linux
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Oct 26, 2014 23:29
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i havent bothered creating a swap partition for a few years now the only times ive run out of ram have been because of a really bad memory leak of my own creation
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Oct 27, 2014 00:10
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so consensus is that only old weird people swap?
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Oct 27, 2014 00:12
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like i said it depends but probably not. desktops most definitely dont need swap unless you're on some kind of poverty system from 2002. servers only need swap for stuff like databases, tomcat/jboss, edge case bullshit like squid and varnish. maybe kv stores like redis and memcache depending on how you use them
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Oct 27, 2014 00:23
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pram posted:if you hit max memory without swap the oom killer will just start blowing up potentially important stuff what happens if you run out of memory and also run out of swap
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Oct 27, 2014 00:26
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same thing
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Oct 27, 2014 00:27
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today i found out that qemu can't output 1366x768 through any of its vga drivers 'cause 1366 isn't divisible by 8. good poo poo.
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Oct 27, 2014 00:29
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i use os x
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Oct 27, 2014 00:46
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theadder posted:i use os x I'm sorry to hear that, I hope you get better
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Oct 27, 2014 00:48
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osx, the worlds most advanced operating system, will compress memory if it has to page  
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Oct 27, 2014 00:52
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zram was merged into Linux as of 3.14, and apparently:quote:Google uses zram in Chrome OS and it is also available as an option for Android 4.4 devices.[7][8] Also, Lubuntu started using zram with version 13.10.[9] As of December 2012, Ubuntu considers to enable zram by default on computers with small amounts of RAM installed.
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Oct 27, 2014 02:50
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Oct 27, 2014 03:01
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sounds as if theyre playing catch up with market leader apple inc op
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Oct 27, 2014 03:06
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maybe os x will get a real file system someday then
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Oct 27, 2014 03:13
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:maybe os x will get a real file system someday then it had a real filesystem back in the day but they deprecated it gg
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Oct 27, 2014 05:24
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pram posted:like i said it depends but probably not. desktops most definitely dont need swap unless you're on some kind of poverty system from 2002. servers only need swap for stuff like databases, tomcat/jboss, edge case bullshit like squid and varnish. maybe kv stores like redis and memcache depending on how you use them a linux with 4 gibbibytes of rams will swap quite a bit if you just open tabs in firefox
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Oct 27, 2014 05:55
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Deus Rex posted:linux has had good support for swap files since 2.6 and you can suspend or hibernate to a swap file just fine. "good" support would mean something like the macintosh operating system ten's dynamic_pager, which creates and destroys swapfiles on demand, functionality which always seemed to be lacking in linuxes. also i don't think i ever saw a linux install which defaulted to files instead of partitions. have these things changed at all? (my recent linux install experience is limited to red hate and it still does swap partitions because of course it would. kid, nickel, real computer, go buy one, etc)
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Oct 27, 2014 06:00
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Enlightenment WM, best double-u, em https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lOa8o1tgIU
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Oct 27, 2014 06:28
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BobHoward posted:a linux with 4 gibbibytes of rams will swap quite a bit if you just open tabs in firefox lol 4gb of ram, lol firefox etc
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Oct 27, 2014 06:48
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BobHoward posted:"good" support would mean something like the macintosh operating system ten's dynamic_pager, which creates and destroys swapfiles on demand, functionality which always seemed to be lacking in linuxes. also i don't think i ever saw a linux install which defaulted to files instead of partitions. have these things changed at all? it defaults to a fixed-size swap partition on lvm, because that is the only sane or reasonable configuration i'm sure you could mis-configure it to suit your very specific needs, but that's your own problem, neckbeard Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 06:56
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pram posted:lol 4gb of ram, lol firefox etc  but you dont always get to choose what's in your work pcNotorious b.s.d. posted:it defaults to a fixed-size swap partition on lvm, because that is the the "need" is wanting to boot the install dvd, press butan, and have it auto partition the disk as one partition instead of a bunch of tiny ones just because irrelevant decades-old big-iron neckbeard dogma insists that you must put swap and bin and sbin and root-FS and home dirs and opt each in their own mini partition. the "need" is not wanting to ever have to cj swap space. the "need" is not having to guess how much swap is enough potentially years before a critical event. in short, the "need" is wanting a linux to actually behave like real desktop operating systems in tyool 2014
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Oct 27, 2014 07:56
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BobHoward posted:
what kind of "critical event" are you thinking of, anyway? that sounds like the sort of thing that might happen on the sort of server that people are paid to cj, not your desktop
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Oct 27, 2014 10:23
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same but with a 5k retinal display op
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Oct 27, 2014 10:26
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what made all the lunatics come out of the woodwork. a Linux will run on 100 meg of ram just fine. popular distros have a "click button, use whole drive" mode. Linux is poo poo, but not for these idiot reasons.
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Oct 27, 2014 10:58
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who the gently caress actually contemplates swap space
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Oct 27, 2014 10:59
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BobHoward posted:a linux with 4 gibbibytes of rams will swap quite a bit if you just open tabs in firefox works on my machine
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Oct 27, 2014 12:40
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BobHoward posted:
seriously also lol, if the one-click install pushed everything into partitions nobody except the neckbeards would even know the difference
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Oct 27, 2014 13:40
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bobbilljim posted:who the gently caress actually contemplates swap space linuxes
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Oct 27, 2014 13:55
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BobHoward posted:
the only reason I even bother with this hobbyist garbage with it's terrible armchair ~innovators~.
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Oct 27, 2014 16:07
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BobHoward posted:"good" support would mean something like the macintosh operating system ten's dynamic_pager, which creates and destroys swapfiles on demand, functionality which always seemed to be lacking in linuxes. also i don't think i ever saw a linux install which defaulted to files instead of partitions. have these things changed at all? I'm pretty sure Ubuntu defaults to files now though I haven't done an install on metal in ages
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Oct 27, 2014 17:06
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https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/10/27/1 glad they nipped this 'un in the bud
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Oct 27, 2014 17:08
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BobHoward posted:a linux with 4 gibbibytes of rams will swap quite a bit if you just open tabs in firefox My phone is a Linux with 2 gigs of ram and it runs Firefox v well, op
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Oct 27, 2014 17:22
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BobHoward posted:the "need" is not having to guess how much swap is enough potentially years before a critical event. it will create more swap than you have physical memory, so that in a worst-case scenario you can dump 100% of physical memory to swap worrying that the amount of RAM in the system might change over "years" is the neckbeard option here
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Oct 27, 2014 19:20
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Rahu posted:My phone is a Linux with 2 gigs of ram and it runs Firefox v well, op lmao
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Oct 27, 2014 19:31
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 to all who actually answered my question whether non-red-hate distros can now configure them are selves to swap in a file without cjingi still dk if there's anythign comparable to dynamic_pager (expands and contracts amount of space used by swapfiles as needed), which is the second essential component of behaving like a real desktop os, but whatevs Notorious b.s.d. posted:it will create more swap than you have physical memory, so that in a worst-case scenario you can dump 100% of physical memory to swap lol if u think amount of ram changing is what i care about the idea that a fixed allocation is desirable in any way at all is horrible broken-by-design stupidity. and it's actually dumb everywhere, not just desktop i'll give u a real world non desktop example so u can comprehend. my former employer only gave me 4gb ram in my linux desktop because they have rackmount linux compute servers to run the real poo poo on. these have a minimum 64gb ram, many have 96 or 128. lol if u think its appropriate to dedicate 128gb of a 300gb SAS disk (what most of them had) to swap. the guy who set them up guessed how much swap partition was needed but inevitably that guess was sometimes wrong with dynamic allocation this is simply never an issue. another example of dynamic allocation superiority: whoever installed linux unfortunately went along with the installer's preferred (?) partition layout which made a root FS partition just large enough for the distro with home dirs elsewhere, because everyone knows you should do that on a unix because that's the way the neckbeard prophets did it turns out eda tools need a lot of disk space at /tmp, we had all kinds of fun with tools making GBS threads themselves in weird ways thanks to that fuckup. the minimum cost solution accounting for labor and disruption was of course to buy another disk and mount it on /tmp (lol), but the point is that ever needing to do this is super dumb when file systems are a thing. dynamic allocation superior to static. if u dont get this please gtfo this thread and yospos tyvm BobHoward fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 22:27
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quote is not edit
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Oct 27, 2014 22:28
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the only time you should ever touch swap, ever, is to dump kernel memory to disk. either for debugging, or for suspend/resume. this requires a fixed swap partition of known size to be immediately available w/out any code executing to create it any other use of swap is a perversity. it is not my fault your desktop is seriously loving hosed up. that is a problem with your employer not a problem with the sane defaults established by your distribution's installer
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Oct 27, 2014 22:30
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fuckin lol at 4 gb in a developer desktop you poor bastard
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Oct 27, 2014 22:31
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if what bsd is saying is true then how does swap/suspend/hibernate work on os x?
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Oct 27, 2014 22:36
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