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I wrote a blog post about using the Fiasco tabletop RPG to brainstorm/outline novels and short stories. It's nifty if you're stuck and need a kick in the rear end to get your creative juices flowing. Writing Brainstorming Tool: Fiasco
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Oct 22, 2014 20:21
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General Battuta posted:Haha, that's great. Apt term for all those people you meet who never clean up and submit. It's been way more than 36 hours, are you still not-train-splatter? How is it going? You are still a huge inspiration to me and many others in this thread--especially all of us trying to write under the oppressing weight of depression (gently caress YOU DEPRESSION!) I'd love to hear more about how the whole publishing process is going with you, if you can and are willing to give details. It sounds both like a dream come true and also like a loving nightmare. Also when does your book come out? Also Also, I can't believe I didn't check the thread for a week and we already had yet another conversation about how mean and insular Thunderdome is. LOL.
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Oct 24, 2014 07:47
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It's in! I am repairing all the stupid damage that deadline caused, fixing rent and health insurance and my obscene blood/caffeine ratio and all that. It got pretty dire at the end — deadline night cost me all my sleep and a good bottle of scotch. But it's all at rest for now. I'm glad to be an inspiration but we're all in this together  The process is moving along. I haven't really had a chance to stop and celebrate or even really think how cool this is. My editor's great, I got to tour Tor and get a bunch of free books. I'm trying to stay realistic and temperate about my prospects, but they're doing well by me and my agent is really competent at foreign rights. Hopefully Amazon won't turn the whole industry into Alderaan before I get to try my hand at I think they're shooting for a Fall 2015 launch. I wish I'd thought up a better title. 'The Traitor Baru Cormorant' looks nice enough on paper but it's hard to say and not wildly catchy. I'm taking a breather before starting the sequel (due March  ). Think I'm going to take a couple days to write a short story. I really appreciate you asking, it's nice!This article on why conventional praise may not work on writers was kind of interesting. Makes the case that it's hard to get meaningful positive feedback except from other writers with an appreciation for process instead of output.
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Oct 24, 2014 08:16
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:It's been way more than 36 hours, are you still not-train-splatter? How is it going? You are still a huge inspiration to me and many others in this thread--especially all of us trying to write under the oppressing weight of depression (gently caress YOU DEPRESSION!) I've been going through a divorce and that's like being a certain kind of depressed, where it hits you over and over. Even though you hate her and want her gone, you also feel like a piece of your heart is being slowly ripped out. And don't get me started on the kids. What I would recommend to you is to channel it into your writing more; some people might tell you it's bad to get hung up on one motif, but you seem like a cheerful person so maybe if you delved into those dark feelings, you would get some great fiction done. I don't really know your writing style, though, so maybe that advice is a bad fit. Thunderdome CAN seem a little estranging at times, but I think that's just people's nerves. I was terrified to watch Mercede's judgment video in the thread! But then I won, and now suddenly I understand why people stick around, because the rush of success after so many failures is an excellent motivation tool. And, Battuta: I won't say that it doesn't sting a little that a (I'm guessing) young man is light years ahead of where I wish I was, but like Dr. Kloc said, you're a real inspiration, and it's really nice of you to hang around and inspire us schmucks.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:22
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General Battuta posted:This article on why conventional praise may not work on writers was kind of interesting. Makes the case that it's hard to get meaningful positive feedback except from other writers with an appreciation for process instead of output. Thanks for linking this - the article (and podcast) were very interesting, and I've been reading the rest of his blog all day. Reminds me I ought to pick up City of Stairs before I forget (again). Also looking forward to being able to read your book, eventually. But drat, sequel due in March? I think I'll uh scrap any series ideas I had.
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Oct 25, 2014 00:14
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Echo Cian posted:Thanks for linking this - the article (and podcast) were very interesting, and I've been reading the rest of his blog all day. Seriously, I can hardly begin to explain how true that article rings for me. Apparently, actually attending high school courses instead of doing drugs makes you "smart." It was a real kick in the dick when I got to college and actually had to spend meaningful amounts of time with homework.
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Oct 25, 2014 00:43
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Cache Cab posted:Thunderdome CAN seem a little estranging at times, but I think that's just people's nerves. I was terrified to watch Mercede's judgment video in the thread! But then I won, and now suddenly I understand why people stick around, because the rush of success after so many failures is an excellent motivation tool. Hey, you wrote a good story. I was Mercedes's second for that brawl and we were both enjoyed reading it. Good job of crafting an amusing story that fit your prompt. By far the hardest thing about TD is taking that first blow to your ego. Followed closely by the second, third, and fourth hits. I know it took me some time to get over myself and appreciate the fact that a bunch of strangers on the internet were willing to take the time to give me feedback. And I'll say that in forty something weeks of writing for TD I've only actively disagreed with judgement twice. Which I think is pretty impressive.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:25
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Tyrannosaurus posted:I know it took me some time to get over myself and appreciate the fact that a bunch of strangers on the internet were willing to take the time to give me feedback. Absolutely. To me it's really getting over that fear of holy gently caress someone else is actually looking at these terrible words I wrote. I loving love TD and the fact that there is a group who genuinely want to provide feedback and help people grow. (Plus the general tough guy/gal facade is hilarious, and people who get sensitive about it are even more hilarious) Thanks for helping to judge! My entry for the brawl w/ Cache Cab was the second piece of writing I've actually finished (the first being a TD from a month/two ago) since college 4+ years ago, and even then I was an English major so only wrote a few pieces of fiction during that time. So it's been at least 8 years since I've really written consistently (back in high school  ).So again, just that anyone is willing to read this poo poo and provide honest feedback is amazing.
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Oct 26, 2014 04:21
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wrong thread lol whoops sorry!
anime was right fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 04:25
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I haven't shown anyone any fiction writing yet because I haven't done any seriously for a while, I'm on script writing projects. I did show a couple of goons the beginning of my script in its first draft. I got really useful feedback. But, the feedback I got was that it was rough, everything needing rejigging at the least and I'd gotten a lot of the format conventions wrong. It was basically all unusable material that needed a good scrubbing up. My dialogue was awful placeholder dialogue that no non-robot would ever say. I wanted to show someone at the rough, crap stage because as I sat writing I was terrified of someone reading it. I would spend half my time imagining someone reading it and telling me I was a waste of ink, oxygen and paper. Wasting my time and theirs. The other half I'd spend doing the actual writing/brain rattling and fighting against my sad brains. The fear of showing anyone was stifling my ability to write, despite the fact I know that I have to put the rubbish words down before I can sculpt them into gooder ones with gooder sentence making. Just getting that first feedback was a great step. It was more interesting than scary to see how far I'd succeeded, and what ideas I'd actually imparted to the reader compared to what I thought I was doing. Now I'm not super nervous when I try and write. It's really unpleasant the first time handing work over to someone and then seeing that reply email pop up with 'man this is a load of butt' written in it. But I really recommend getting it out the way as soon as possible because on the other side is people helping you craft better.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:04
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Tyrannosaurus posted:By far the hardest thing about TD is taking that first blow to your ego. Followed closely by the second, third, and fourth hits. I know it took me some time to get over myself and appreciate the fact that a bunch of strangers on the internet were willing to take the time to give me feedback. It only sucks when you see other people getting critted and yours gets skipped and you have a rush of self entitlement screaming at you "what, I'm not even as good as Benny the Snake, he got a crit" - which is selfish and dumb, and Benny the Snake has gotten a lot better anyway so I probably shouldn't single him out but w/e
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Oct 28, 2014 16:54
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I actually wouldn't mind Thunderdome, I just think that a chronological thread makes it really hard to parse what's happening and I generally find it messy, especially when there's overlap between brawls, previous entry crits, and current signups/entries. I'm sure the structure makes sense after x entries though. I'd crit but I don't think I have enough for people to take my word for it.
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Oct 28, 2014 17:42
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Szmitten posted:I actually wouldn't mind Thunderdome, I just think that a chronological thread makes it really hard to parse what's happening and I generally find it messy, especially when there's overlap between brawls, previous entry crits, and current signups/entries. I'm sure the structure makes sense after x entries though. I'd crit but I don't think I have enough for people to take my word for it. The thread generally follows a weekly cycle of prompt post (mondays), signups (end friday), submissions (end sunday), and results (monday evening) with most of the activity occurring in short bursts. Then there's the random poo poo talking and brawling in between. There are several people who contribute who just read the prompt, sign up, and post their story. It's not necessary to follow all the other stuff, as it's mostly just people like me being a jerk. We also have an offsite archive (http://writocracy.com/thunderdome) which posts the prompts, entries, and results, which is a bit easier to wade through than the thread. A crit is appreciated by pretty much everybody no matter the pedigree of the person giving it. We're all aiming to write enjoyable things for [a sizable audience] so lots of different opinions is good. Even looking at the different opinions of the three judges ever week is really interesting. I love reading crits that others have done, because it helps me think about my own writing. edit: I just read this list of author v author insults and laughed. http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/books/35-author-on-author-put-downs crabrock fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Oct 28, 2014 |
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Oct 28, 2014 17:59
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Speaking of Thunderdome, I want to start participating again, but I've got like six thousand unread messages going back to January. Did anything important come up?
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Oct 28, 2014 20:36
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Benny tried to brawl the entire human race. So... no.
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Oct 28, 2014 20:39
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FouRPlaY posted:Speaking of Thunderdome, I want to start participating again, but I've got like six thousand unread messages going back to January. Did anything important come up? Any super important stuff would go in the OP (nothing super important happens in TD though). Incidentally, there is always a link to the current prompt in the OP, also! You don't really need to read anything else in the thread, except for crits maybe. There is usually someone in #Thunderdome on synIRC who can answer questions, too. Or hell, PM me! If anyone was wondering, this week is an anonymous submissions week. That means that everyone is sending their signups to one designated person, who will pass the stories onto the judges without telling them who wrote what. It's a cool way to get rid of any bias.
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Oct 28, 2014 21:07
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FouRPlaY posted:Speaking of Thunderdome, I want to start participating again, but I've got like six thousand unread messages going back to January. Did anything important come up? lol no
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Oct 28, 2014 21:18
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Thanks for your encouragement in the Nano site, Blade_of_tyshalle. (Also, as a repeat, thank you again for your critiques on my entry in TD from back in March, Echo Cian and God Over Djinn.) I look forward to some more TD ripshit after November. I have what I guess might be a fairly specific question about transitions. How do you guys handle glossing over time which has passed during a narrative? Say the protagonist is injured and there's a long recovery time that isn't all eventful, or there's a long trip from location A to B and you really just aren't gunning for a re-imagining of The Road. Do you have any recs for fic out there that handles the passage of this low key time well?
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Oct 28, 2014 21:27
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RedTonic posted:Thanks for your encouragement in the Nano site, Blade_of_tyshalle. (Also, as a repeat, thank you again for your critiques on my entry in TD from back in March, Echo Cian and God Over Djinn.) I look forward to some more TD ripshit after November. "Three months later, "
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Oct 28, 2014 21:47
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"It had been an uneventful six weeks since [[TRAUMATIC EVENT]]," Don't overthink it.
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Oct 28, 2014 21:57
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I've definitely done both of those things, but in workshop feedback, people seemed uncertain about whether time had passed. Not sure if I should chalk that up to a bad workshop or me somehow burying the transition. Thank you. I do overthink. That's one of the biggest barriers between me and output.
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Oct 28, 2014 22:27
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It's almost always awkward. If i can, i like to get away with just not mentioning it and implying it with a break: He looked at the tubes going up into his dickhole and knew it's be a while before he walked again. # He ran through the park with his dog. The snow had melted and it felt good to shake out his tube free dick.
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Oct 28, 2014 22:33
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crabrock posted:It's almost always awkward. If i can, i like to get away with just not mentioning it and implying it with a break: do you see what I did there
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Oct 28, 2014 22:41
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ONE FISCAL QUARTER LATER, he ran through the park with his accountant. The snow had melted and it felt good to file his taxes on time.
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Oct 28, 2014 22:55
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THREE MONTHS EARLIER he ran through the park with his velociraptor, happy to have successfully tested his time machine.
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Oct 28, 2014 23:08
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I say leave it out and if people are confused make a small nod to that to clarify. "It was spring by the time his bed-weakened limbs felt strong enough to keep up with his dog as it frolicked in the park. The sun felt good and his dick felt good, no longer containing as it had for those long months a tube connected to a bag full of piss." Either way, don't overthink it and don't draw too much attention to it. These things are structural, they're supposed to impart the necessary support to the narrative without distracting the reader. It's the same reason interior designers go out of their way to hide the poo poo holding the roof up instead of hanging signs everywhere that say "Hey, look at this load bearing wall!"
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Oct 28, 2014 23:09
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Just write everything in the form of diary entries with clear date stamps.
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Oct 28, 2014 23:10
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Just write everything in the form of diary entries with clear date stamps. What, someone's still on livejournal? I think there's something in using fiscal accounting periods for writing fiction, there, B_o_t. Or maybe I'm still scarred from last quarterly closing. Good to know this is something I can expend way less mental energy on.
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Oct 28, 2014 23:15
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Just finished the 1st draft of a fantasy novel. I'm itching to get back to working on it (edit, revision, rewrite, etc), but I've heard it's best to set it aside for a time and go work on something else. What's the best time frame for this? I would guess it varies from person to person. Any experienced goons with tips?
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Oct 30, 2014 22:48
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Just finished the 1st draft of a fantasy novel. I'm itching to get back to working on it (edit, revision, rewrite, etc), but I've heard it's best to set it aside for a time and go work on something else. What's the best time frame for this? I would guess it varies from person to person. Any experienced goons with tips? The benefits of your current enthusiasm would have to outweigh anything that sitting on it can do. I've never written a novel, but I think common sense says start it while you're keen.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:52
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It's really totally a matter of personal preference. Some people can turn around and start editing right away. The most common answers I've heard are "a week" and "a month or two." The idea is just to give yourself enough time that the words aren't fresh in your mind, so that you can examine them from a slightly more objective perspective. However, some people go overboard, too. Just remember that no matter what you write, a year from now you're going to look back at it and cringe. This will probably keep happening for the rest of your life. Or you can just be dumb like me and edit as you write!
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Oct 30, 2014 22:56
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Just finished the 1st draft of a fantasy novel. I'm itching to get back to working on it (edit, revision, rewrite, etc), but I've heard it's best to set it aside for a time and go work on something else. What's the best time frame for this? I would guess it varies from person to person. Any experienced goons with tips? Give it a week, probably not more — just my feeling!
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Oct 30, 2014 23:17
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if you haven't seen the beginning since you've started, and it's been a few weeks/months, then you've already waited!
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Oct 30, 2014 23:31
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crabrock posted:if you haven't seen the beginning since you've started, and it's been a few weeks/months, then you've already waited! In the beginning I would read everything I wrote to get the voice back again, but as it got bigger that wasn't as doable. Final wordcount is 216k (EEEEEK!) so by the end I'm like gently caress how did all these words happen??? Thanks for the advice ya'll, think I'll wait a month (JUST finished it) and jump back into it.
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Oct 30, 2014 23:39
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:In the beginning I would read everything I wrote to get the voice back again, but as it got bigger that wasn't as doable. Final wordcount is 216k (EEEEEK!) so by the end I'm like gently caress how did all these words happen??? Don't be scared of the word count. As you do your revision, you'll find that you'll trim that by a significant amount as you edit, re-word, cut scenes and dialog, etc...
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Oct 30, 2014 23:49
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King's advice, if I remember correctly, was to drop the writing into a drawer and not even look at it for six months. That always struck me as kinda batshit, but I've got a crippling Edit As I Write problem so I'm likely the last person you should listen to anyway. Really though the idea is to just make yourself look at it a little more objectively, which you can never do in the heat of the moment. It's up to you how long that might take, but anything more than a month would probably be excessive. vv- Also what they said. 200k+ is bonkers. Toaster Beef fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 02:02
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I would definitely worry about that word count. You need to trim, like, a hundred.  edit: thousand General Battuta fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 02:13
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General Battuta posted:I would definitely worry about that word count. You need to trim, like, a hundred. I wish I could remember who it was. I want to say Brian Sanderson, but I think that's wrong. Basically, they said they'd write and write and write on the first draft. Just dump every scene, all the dialogue, everything that landed in their head onto the story and end up with an ungodly number of words. But then over various revisions and edits end up cutting a third or more of that as they tightened up the dialogue and narrative. At times removing entire chapters or scenes because they served no purpose. They then ended up with a much more manageable manuscript that could be sent to an agent or editor for further revision and cutting. Just approach it like you're a doctor and the manuscript is a baby with cancerous tumors. Cut out all the tumors. Too little and the story dies. Too much and the story dies. No pressure. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 02:50
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newtestleper posted:The benefits of your current enthusiasm would have to outweigh anything that sitting on it can do. I've never written a novel, but I think common sense says start it while you're keen. I would actually disagree with this philosophy. Writing a novel, especially a long one, is a taxing but rewarding accomplishment, and the excitement you get from finishing it will cloud your ability to look at your work with a critical eye. Giving it a month to sit and collect dust while you move on to other projects gives your mind time to forget about it. Then, when you pick it back up, you're able to look at it with a lot more focus and honesty. That's my two cents anyway, and what I've found works for me. As others have said though, everyone's different! Toaster Beef posted:King's advice, if I remember correctly, was to drop the writing into a drawer and not even look at it for six months. I think it was six weeks, not months, because yeah, that would be simply ridiculous. It's been a while since I read On Writing though. Also, 200+k isn't that long for a Fantasy novel. Other genres, sure, but hell, City of Stairs was like 170k and I considered it short given what else is out there. This post came out very contradictory to other things people have said. I swear, I'm not trying to start any fights!
Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 14:58
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200k is long for a debut fantasy novel. Your sweetspot is like 100-120k and if you're really good you can edge up from there. There are some debut fantasy novels which are long, but that doesn't stop shorter from being better in a lot of ways, including your chances of getting a deal and the amount of money they have to spend to print your book.
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Oct 31, 2014 15:30
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