|
rotor posted:gettin some mixed siggies here ... SIGSEGV
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 05:25 |
|
|
sig hup hup HUP!!
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 01:58
|
|
|
Internaut! posted:math owns and analysis/geometry/topology are vital for understanding modern physics u baby just go read kobayashi and nomizu like an adult
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 02:47
|
|
|
rotor posted:sig hup hup HUP!! sighup is for betas, alphas sigkill even when not necessary
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 02:48
|
|
|
today will be known as the beginning of the end for math literacy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvIoYUr1SWI
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 03:55
|
|
|
theadder posted:yes no
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 04:10
|
|
|
http://youtu.be/DIwzjXYGV5g
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 04:14
|
|
|
Sniep posted:sighup is for betas, alphas sigkill even when not necessary SIGWINCH yourself out of this thread
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 04:19
|
|
|
maybe
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 04:22
|
|
|
MATH5MATICS
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 09:31
|
|
|
Math
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 10:09
|
|
|
qntm posted:mathematics is whatever doesn't lead to a contradiction I think the first time I came across this is when I heard about the gamma function.  Ok so this is n!, the factorial you know like 3! is 3*2*1 and 8! is 8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1. 0! is 1 because gently caress you. So the most preferred way to extend it to the real numbers is with the gamma function:  this curve looks good to me but... wait a minute what's going on over the negative n...   (the gamma function is some cool smart poo poo and it appears naturally in analysis when you want to define some function with the property f(x) = x * f(x-1))
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 10:53
|
|
|
so i was thinking today about how your brain is always subconsciously solving differential equations like, say you're driving a car, and you push on the gas pedal; the car will accelerate forward which will tend to push your foot backwards wrt the frame of reference of the car, so you have to apply more force, but if you apply too much then the acceleration is even more intense thus shoving your foot back harder, etc. but then your brain relatively quickly learns how to anticipate and control this which is kind of cool
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 10:55
|
|
|
give me another example because I never drove a car 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 10:58
|
|
|
with some people it's a delay differential equation because they're texting while driving and it takes 2 seconds to notice anything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 11:02
|
|
|
Symbolic Butt posted:give me another example because I never drove a car posting
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 12:20
|
|
|
bump_fn posted:u baby just go read kobayashi and nomizu like an adult that guy works for keyser soze; i'm not going anywhere near him 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 12:53
|
|
|
ol qwerty bastard posted:so i was thinking today about how your brain is always subconsciously solving differential equations ur brain isn't actually solving differential equations it just knows what parabolas "look like" after seeing them enough.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 12:54
|
|
|
computer parts posted:today will be known as the beginning of the end for math literacy this is neat, pity all it will be used for is cheating in algebra and destroying math knowledge
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 13:11
|
|
|
bump_fn posted:ur brain isn't actually solving differential equations it just knows what parabolas "look like" after seeing them enough. quote:ASE neurons report changes in concentration rather than absolute levels. Recordings from synaptic and sensory transduction mutants show that the ON–OFF asymmetry is the result of intrinsic differences between ASE neurons. Unilateral activation experiments indicate that the asymmetry extends to the level of behavioural output: ASEL lengthens bouts of forward locomotion (runs) whereas ASER promotes direction changes (turns). Notably, the input and output asymmetries of ASE neurons are precisely those of a simple yet novel neuronal motif for computing the time derivative of chemosensory information, which is the fundamental computation of C. elegans chemotaxis.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 13:26
|
|
|
Notorious QIG posted:this is neat, pity all it will be used for is cheating in algebra and destroying math knowledge or maybe we could start to focus on critical thinking, creativity, and problem solving?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 14:04
|
|
|
lord funk posted:or maybe we could start to focus on critical thinking, creativity, and problem solving? yes lets focus on these things by having computers do all these things for us
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 14:17
|
|
|
lord funk posted:or maybe we could start to focus on critical thinking, creativity, and problem solving? lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 14:36
|
|
|
Tin Gang posted:yes lets focus on these things by having computers do all these things for us I don't believe that counting is really that critical to problem solving. You have to know how to phrase a problem, and how to solve for a value manually, but developing a numeric solution is something that computers are much better at than humans. If you actually end up needing to add complex fractions by hand on a regular basis, you'll learn. I don't know how much value there is in teaching kids their times tables by rote these days. Learning algebra - how to manipulate variables - has value but even then it's just the language you use to describe things that are actually interesting. Speaking of which, have you folks read Lockhart's Lament? I imagine most of you have but it's a great essay to read and think about if you like math, particularly how it's taught versus how it could be.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 14:45
|
|
|
p. clear that doing the arithmetic is not because anyone needs to know arithmetic but rather that we believe it works as a proxy for some understanding of the logic of mathematics very unclear whether we have another way to teach people, but it is rather overdue to work more systematically at that problem
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:05
|
|
|
Cybernetic Vermin posted:p. clear that doing the arithmetic is not because anyone needs to know arithmetic but rather that we believe it works as a proxy for some understanding of the logic of mathematics if you cant understand whats going on in a simple "find x" problem theres no way you will ever understand higher-order math or the logic of math. i agree we put too much effort on rote problem solving but you cant just skip algebra and expect students to pick up calculus
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:10
|
|
|
I'm not gonna fishmech the american education system I just think the thought "math is useless and doesn't teach you anything about the world" is really dumb and anyone who says that probably does not know much math
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:24
|
|
|
Notorious QIG posted:if you cant understand whats going on in a simple "find x" problem theres no way you will ever understand higher-order math or the logic of math. i agree we put too much effort on rote problem solving but you cant just skip algebra and expect students to pick up calculus I don't even know what we're teaching kids in school at all. It seems like a system designed to bore the poo poo out of kids, in a subject they probably already hate because their parents probably hate it, their peers don't care about it, and the teacher probably doesn't know much more than what's in the teacher's edition (about 70% of poor kids are taught math by someone who never studied it in college). We'd be better off making math class more interesting with poo poo like study of geometric shapes, maybe playing chess. Understanding what's going on when you're solving an algebraic equation is important. But kids aren't really learning what's going on. They don't learn how to find the area of a triangle - they're given an equation, a = 1 /2 base * height, and told to plug in values. It's still just kids pushing buttons, even if they're doing it by hand. It's hilariously misguided at basically every step, but there are few educators with the background needed to effectively teach math as it should be taught. Really just read the paper it's quite good
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:33
|
|
|
Broken Machine posted:I don't even know what we're teaching kids in school at all. then why are you commenting on it
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:35
|
|
|
Notorious QIG posted:then why are you commenting on it I mean that it's not at all clear to me what they're actually learning by going through the activities they're being subjected to. Clearly they're learning something, but it's more along the lines of this is boring, math is stupid and pointless and I don't see why this is important. And they're right.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:39
|
|
|
the fact that kids arent learning why A=1/2 b*h is the fault of our overall educational problems, the same reason that kids learn to hate reading and loathe team sports. there are plenty of good teachers who do teach where stuff comes from, theyre just drowned out by the general shittiness of our educational system. also you cant teach math like you teach painting. there are famous painters who did nothing but throw buckets of paint onto canvases and theyre considered revolutionary. you cant just throw math at a canvas and see what sticks, there are rules. you need to know the rules before you can learn how to stretch them and do cool poo poo, the problem is that the rules themselves are taught really poorly as is the logic behind those rules
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:45
|
|
|
i tried to read how to solve it and i got to the word parallelopiped and stopped that's my story
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:47
|
|
|
Share Bear posted:i tried to read how to solve it and i got to the word parallelopiped and stopped that's my story aw, it's just a parallelogram what turned into a box made of six parallelograms. like a parallelogram cube
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 15:51
|
|
|
Notorious QIG posted:the fact that kids arent learning why A=1/2 b*h is the fault of our overall educational problems, the same reason that kids learn to hate reading and loathe team sports. there are plenty of good teachers who do teach where stuff comes from, theyre just drowned out by the general shittiness of our educational system. Mathematics can be a rather creative process, and a lot of math is applied without necessarily being formally understood. For example, they've studied islamic art from the 15th century and realized that they were actually applying some rather advanced concepts from crystalline geometry, and developed shapes and structure that we only studied formally this past century. There was an article in Science a few years ago, here's a summary. Math defines systems governed by rules, but the rules can be modified. Change the parallel line postulate and you have non-euclidean geometries. At the forefront of mathematics, researchers developing new proofs or studying in new branches of mathematics, there are rules there but they're still waiting to be discovered. Part of the issue is that there's a long time before you ever see that side of things. It's not until well into grad school in math before students typically even get up to this century. I'd like to see education be much more about what it is to discover mathematics, what that process is like and understanding much more about patterns and why they're interesting. Problem solving is important but as much as math is about rigor it's also about processes that are much more ubiquitous than given credit. I mean, if someone really likes baseball and spends a ton of time poring over earned run averages, times at bat etc., they probably have a solid understanding of statistics as it applies to baseball. A concert pianist has a complex understanding of time and the dynamics of sound intuitively. There was a neat article in Wired I was reading earlier today about a curve called the Tracy Widom curve that keeps popping up all over, and they're still figuring out its structure.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 16:07
|
|
|
look i dont disagree that math education in this country is lacking but youre literally arguing that people who will never enter a stem field should learn about alternative versions of the parallel line postulate. what possible use could that have?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
ol qwerty bastard posted:so i was thinking today about how your brain is always subconsciously solving differential equations dont feedback (+ve or -ve) do this without any form of "working poo poo out" and just more like equilibrium
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 16:16
|
|
|
Notorious QIG posted:look i dont disagree that math education in this country is lacking but youre literally arguing that people who will never enter a stem field should learn about alternative versions of the parallel line postulate. what possible use could that have? I like the idea of learning things because they're interesting, not because they're necessarily immediately of practical value. Does learning art have an immediate practical value? Studying music and dance are good things to learn as well; they may not be directly applicable to the real world, but studies have shown they improve the quality of life of those who study them in numerous ways. Besides which there are so many cases where theoreticians stumble on applications, or applied mathematicians stumbling across structures with profound theoretical implications.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 16:18
|
|
|
Notorious QIG posted:look i dont disagree that math education in this country is lacking but youre literally arguing that people who will never enter a stem field should learn about alternative versions of the parallel line postulate. what possible use could that have? because education is not just about stamping out worker drones for industry.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 16:24
|
|
|
Broken Machine posted:I like the idea of learning things because they're interesting, not because they're necessarily immediately of practical value. Does learning art have an immediate practical value? Studying music and dance are good things to learn as well; they may not be directly applicable to the real world, but studies have shown they improve the quality of life of those who study them in numerous ways. Besides which there are so many cases where theoreticians stumble on applications, or applied mathematicians stumbling across structures with profound theoretical implications. ok, i get that, but there are parts of math that have direct practical value and the goal of school should be first and foremost to prepare students for the real world. if i was a math teacher i think id pick teaching something like stat or finance over something like non-euclidean geometry since way more students will actually find that helpful and applicable once theyre no longer in school
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 05:25 |
|
|
rotor posted:because education is not just about stamping out worker drones for industry. primary and secondary education should primarily be there to acclimate students to the realities of the world around them, and that includes practical math. art and music and whatnot should be taught so they have a cultural understanding of society, math should be taught primarily so that they can understand the math theyll have to deal with on a day-to-day basis
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 16:27
|
|