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Momomo posted:Was Keisuke any worse than Kaido, the guy who ran a gang that apparently killed people? Uhhh I'd say Keisuke was pretty bad, I mean he kinda literally snapped and killed like everyone he saw that did anything "bad."
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Oct 30, 2014 01:07
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Chaos as a philosophy has always been defined as breaking the world order for the sake of ruling through power and one's own will. It leaves the world in such a state that everyone is consistently killing each other until it becomes so that strength is the ruling force behind all decisions. Beyond the fact that Al's endgame is legit rebirth of the world and leaving it in the hands of the humans who helped give new life to it, he's in no way anything like Chaos characters that aren't Lucifer... and even then he's a hell of a lot nicer than Lucifer. Compare him with loving Jimenez, Walter, and even Naoya. He has the chaos colors, but that is a red herring (No pun intended) for who he actually is as a character. If you want a chaos character then Yamato is more up that alley because not only is he just Naoya again, he straight up wants a survival of the fittest world. Momomo posted:Was Keisuke any worse than Kaido, the guy who ran a gang that apparently killed people? Kaido's gang was considered a generally benevolent and he has a reputation for being helpful. Not like Keisuke who lost his poo poo and murdered multiple people in the span of a few hours until Kaido had to set his rear end on fire to stop him from murdering people.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:09
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I just meant there are people just as bad as him, so him being at the bottom of the list behind Naoya is kind of weird. Also, I kinda forget who Keisuke ended up killing. I remember his example of some guys that murdered an old woman for instance, but not much else.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:10
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Momomo posted:Was Keisuke any worse than Kaido, the guy who ran a gang that apparently killed people? ChaosArgate posted:Uhhh I'd say Keisuke was pretty bad, I mean he kinda literally snapped and killed like everyone he saw that did anything "bad." This was my basic logic. I mean after we go around helping the girl he was gooning over (good idea, and totally worth it) he just goes all Psycho Punisher and I was like "hit the road jack"
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Oct 30, 2014 01:10
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It's the 30th and the eshop has been updated and still no SMT IV Why do you do this to me eshop/atlus, whyyyyy 
Samael fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 01:10
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So I assume the game isn't out yet.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:13
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Keisuke was an annoying piece of poo poo and he wasn't even a useful character because his stats were rear end. gently caress that guy. Also I said "cool" Chaos characters for a reason. It was to distinguish Al from, say, Jimenez, who is a fuckwit.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:15
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Beef Waifu posted:Chaos as a philosophy has always been defined as breaking the world order for the sake of ruling through power and one's own will. It leaves the world in such a state that everyone is consistently killing each other until it becomes so that strength is the ruling force behind all decisions. Yamato is, in every sense of the term, a Law character. Chaos's philosophy is purely ruling through power; it's free will with no gods or masters. Yamato wants to remove free will... and enforce his will through God. Functionally, Yamato is Law-Dark! AO is the Chaos head insofar as he gives the idea for the route and is the face of it, but, yes, he's not really the Chaos character in every sense of the word. That's totally Hibiki.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:17
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Momomo posted:I just meant there are people just as bad as him, so him being at the bottom of the list behind Naoya is kind of weird. He kills a couple of cops on screen and is implied to have dropped others. Also Kaido was never in my party and thus never betrayed me by turning into a Todd McFarlane character. I dunno, I just don't like the dude.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:17
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Honestly Devil Survivor 2's a little weird when it comes to alignments because in certain lights, you could consider both Ronaldo and Yamato to be Law characters because they're trying to create a new world order by appealing to a higher power. I'll give you that the end results are a little easier to define as Law or Chaos, but their means are absolutely Lawful, whereas Psyduck's ending is the good ending where you're overthrowing the system in place for a result that leaves humanity free. In other words, Law endings try to set up a society where there are rigid rules in place, Chaos endings throw the rulebook out the window. Edit: What Dragonatrix said.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:17
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Dragonatrix posted:Yamato is, in every sense of the term, a Law character. Chaos's philosophy is purely ruling through power; it's free will with no gods or masters. Yamato wants to remove free will... and enforce his will through God. Functionally, Yamato is Law-Dark! Oh yeah, I guess Yamato's route did involve that poo poo, huh? It's been a while since I actually played his route. AO's is the only one I distinctly remember because he was cool and the last boss fight of his route had another lovely gimmick.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:19
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Samael posted:It's the 30th and the eshop has been updated and still no SMT IV Watch it get delayed until next year. You just have no idea how many bugs can be created by copying the exact same game from one region's shop to another, it's insane
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Oct 30, 2014 01:19
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I haven't played through Yamato's or Ronaldo's endings (because gently caress them both) but wouldn't that make more sense for Ronaldo to do? Yamato was pretty much a libertarian who thought the free market would decide who's on top, while Ronaldo wanted god to do everything.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:21
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Momomo posted:I haven't played through Yamato's or Ronaldo's endings (because gently caress them both) but wouldn't that make more sense for Ronaldo to do? Yamato was pretty much a libertarian who thought the free market would decide who's on top, while Ronaldo wanted god to do everything. Ronaldo's ideal world is literally the opposite of Yamato's. In Yamato's world, everyone has to earn their place in society, whereas Ronaldo wants everyone to be treated equal to one another. Both of them want Polaris to rewrite the rules of the world to adhere to their ideals, but aside from that, they don't really give a poo poo about what Polaris does as long as he's not bringing down the Septentrions again.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:23
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That doesn't sound like Yamato wants to remove free will though, he just wants people to fight for their ideals.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:26
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perhaps ds2 characters cannot be completely pegged into law or chaos or neutral archetypes, which is good because they're dumb
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Oct 30, 2014 01:30
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uh, I'll have you know that my favorite SMT character, Dante from Devil May Cry, is actually a "Cool guy" alignment featuring many other cool SMT characters such as Burroughs, Isabeau, those dudes who couldn't stop dancing in SMT2, babby Lucifer, schoolgirl Lucifer, and Raidou Kuzunoha.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:32
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I guess it's removing free will in the sense that no one will fight the system in place? I'm not entirely sure where the notion of removing free will comes from, really; I guess he's removing the will of the people too weak to earn their keep? Yamato's deal is basically he is sick of nepotism, inheritance of power and other factors that could bring incompetent or weak people to power and he wants people in power to have earned their position (Yamato having inherited his role as head of JP's being the greatest irony about this). As an aside, Yamato's one of my favorite characters in that game because he's completely consistent with his ideals, he warms up considerably to the MC as he more than proves his worth and when he's beaten in day 7 in any route except for Psyduck's (because gently caress Septentrions), he'll acknowledge that your faction is stronger, and thus more correct than his.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:34
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Momomo posted:Was Keisuke any worse than Kaido, the guy who ran a gang that apparently killed people? I recall trying to save Keisuke from himself and let Kaido die because he was too annoying to bother with recruiting. Sorry, if you're too rude to the MC (me) then clearly you didn't deserve a second chance in the New World  Momomo posted:That doesn't sound like Yamato wants to remove free will though, he just wants people to fight for their ideals. I thought Yamato wanted a world based on meritocracy? The best and brightest should be the leaders and everyone else is on their own.
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Oct 30, 2014 01:50
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Alder posted:I recall trying to save Keisuke from himself and let Kaido die because he was too annoying to bother with recruiting. Exactly. Kaido was some scumbag who hung around with Honda and occasionally got all weird about stuff. Keisuke comes into my camp, eats my food, uses my demons, and has the gall to ditch AND LATER ATTACK me when I don't want to be genocidal? yeah no I'm leaving this dude in a ditch.
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Oct 30, 2014 02:14
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Freak Futanari posted:Or play both games, since they are both very good, in different ways! Or play DSO on 3DS and then play Raidou 2 and DDS games (and Nocturne). Hell, with Valkyrie Chronicles coming to PC, maybe Sega will prod Atlus to get Nocturne a PC release. Wouldn't that be grand (wouldn't mind Devil Summoner or DDS games either)? Edit: Better yet, Play Soul Hackers, perfect 90s nostalgia!
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Oct 30, 2014 02:42
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ChaosArgate posted:Ronaldo's ideal world is literally the opposite of Yamato's. In Yamato's world, everyone has to earn their place in society, whereas Ronaldo wants everyone to be treated equal to one another. Both of them want Polaris to rewrite the rules of the world to adhere to their ideals, but aside from that, they don't really give a poo poo about what Polaris does as long as he's not bringing down the Septentrions again. Except they're both dumb as hell because their respective complaints have the same solutions: make a world in which everyone is totally capable of taking care of themselves. That way nobody has to be unduly burdened by others, and nobody dies or gets left behind. But Yamato won't do it because he wants to be able to lord over the weak, and Ronaldo won't do it because he wants to be the righteous hero. The problem with Yamato and Ronaldo isn't their ideologies, it's that they've disguised petty vanity as some kind of grand philosophical battle and refuse to think bigger so that they can indulge in their narcissism. Noctourne does a similar thing, where the question being asked is ostensibly "what kind of world do you think is just?" when in reality it's "what makes you feel good about yourself?" PsychoInternetHawk fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 04:53
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Yeah. While I liked that their paths were at least slightly more interesting than "Listen to god/Demons are really cool", I still had zero incentive to ever go along with them.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:58
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Here's why I like Naoya: N: This is all because of Angels, who are dicks. Me: ...True. N: We could set you up as the new Lord, and you'd totally do a better job than them. Me: ...also true. N: Also we're Cain and Abel or something, and I don't want to kill you. Me: I don't want to kill you either. Count me in!
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Oct 30, 2014 06:10
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:Except they're both dumb as hell because their respective complaints have the same solutions: make a world in which everyone is totally capable of taking care of themselves. That way nobody has to be unduly burdened by others, and nobody dies or gets left behind. But Yamato won't do it because he wants to be able to lord over the weak, and Ronaldo won't do it because he wants to be the righteous hero. This is totally valid, but I don't think Yamato really cares about who rules over society, so long as they've proven that they deserve to be in charge. He probably will assume the position to begin with, but he's willing to step down if someone can beat him, as shown in any route but his. Ronaldo's a super vain dick though and I wouldn't be surprised if he came up with his blueprint for the ideal world right after Yamato announced his intentions for a meritocracy just because "gently caress YOU YAMATO." MonsieurChoc posted:Here's why I like Naoya: This is why Naoya's route is good.
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Oct 30, 2014 12:05
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SMT4 still not up on the EU eShop. I hope it hasn't been delayed. Again.
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Oct 30, 2014 12:34
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DoctorX posted:SMT4 still not up on the EU eShop. I hope it hasn't been delayed. Again. Maybe they should check their spam folder?
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Oct 30, 2014 12:59
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The Atlus PR guy says 3pm CET or 45 minutes from now. http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141030T15&p0=37
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Oct 30, 2014 14:15
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Downloading now 
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Oct 30, 2014 15:08
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Dehry posted:The Atlus PR guy says 3pm CET or 45 minutes from now. guys, it's out, it's really out! the wait is over 
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Oct 30, 2014 15:09
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Samael posted:guys, it's out, it's really out! the wait is over Prepare to replace your disappointment of not having it released in your territory with the disappointed of what SMT IV actually is! Which is fine but not worth waiting 18 months for.
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Oct 30, 2014 15:17
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Turns out SMTIV is too big for my SD card so it looks like i won't bother wasting my money on inevitable disappointment.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:13
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Freak Futanari posted:inevitable disappointment. The same thing I think every time I see a new Dorroile post.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:18
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Beef Waifu posted:The same thing I think every time I see a new Dorroile post. If you are disappointed by my posts it means you had any sort of positive expactations so that's your problem.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:22
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I bet your parents feel the same way.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:24
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Oct 30, 2014 17:29
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Finally, after more than a goddamn loving year of waiting I can play this poo poo.  I'm not even particularly hyped or have huge expectations, I'm just looking forward to some pleasant SMT shenanigans, so I probably won't be disappointed. Gotta find that little poo poo Navarre, and muscle memory is already coming back. It's time to grind like a motherfucker and become overleveled via teeny tiny increments of XP, because I'm a goddamn maniac! Is there some app I should give priority to, besides skill slots obviously, or I should I just get whatever?
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Oct 30, 2014 21:25
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Beef Waifu posted:uh, I'll have you know that my favorite SMT character, Dante from Devil May Cry, is actually a "Cool guy" alignment featuring many other cool SMT characters such as Burroughs, Isabeau, those dudes who couldn't stop dancing in SMT2, babby Lucifer, schoolgirl Lucifer, and Raidou Kuzunoha. I don't remember Isabeau having any character at all. She was just there.
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Oct 30, 2014 21:28
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Brumaldo posted:Finally, after more than a goddamn loving year of waiting I can play this poo poo. the mp regen ones basically make it so you never run out
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Oct 30, 2014 21:29
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Cake Attack posted:the mp regen ones basically make it so you never run out Time to pump MAG! 
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Oct 30, 2014 21:30
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