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Irony Be My Shield posted:So the "Clara Oswin Oswald has never existed" line was just straight-up fake? Fair enough I guess. It's actually rather annoying, but the trailer seemingly showed footage from BOTH episodes (unless they filmed a bunch of extra stuff just to confuse the audience). The trailer last week was definitely put together to give a very different impression of what Clara was doing. I don't have a problem with that, but I wish they had avoided showing the Cybermen.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:29
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Irony Be My Shield posted:So the "Clara Oswin Oswald has never existed" line was just straight-up fake? Fair enough I guess. There were a few shots that were in the trailer that I don't recall seeing in the episode. I'm guessing last week's trailer had bits from this week's and next week's episode.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:31
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Jerusalem posted:I liked that she kept dropping hints that suggested she could be Susan or, more likely, Romana ("the one you left behind" and the references to herself as "Mistress" like K9 used to call her) just so she could hit him with,"Haha gently caress you nope I'm the Master and I'm still loving batshit insane." I had the exact same Susan or Romana thought at that point too. I like to think it was deliberate, but it doesn't really matter either way. Of course it was always going to be the master.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:31
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PriorMarcus posted:I can't imagine that possibly being true. Just looked it up, seems like I was wrong. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16870579 quote:The population of the planet reached seven billion in October, according to the United Nations. But what's the figure for all those who have lived before us? Googling it got a lot of things from around 4th, 5th of February 2012, so maybe I was remembering that claim being thrown around at the time.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:32
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What I would like to know is why The Promised Land looked like a garden/tea party in the first few appearances and then became an office/dyson-city for the last few, and why The Master stopped handling the guests and handed it over to Seb.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:32
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Oh my lord they loving went there.  They made that so obvious with the Missy scenes throughout the series I was sure it was a red herring. They hid that in plain sight pretty excellently.I worked out it was Cybermen just before the reveal of Cybermen. That made me sad, Cybermen are rubbish. But when I worked out who Missy was (you know, as she was spelling it out), it was the exact opposite reaction. I can't stop smiling. And now she has people to actually interact with she actually seems quite interesting. She's ridiculous in all the right ways. Wanna see how she interacts with Capaldi now. He was great in this too. As usual. Now please don't let the Cybermen gently caress this up. And make sure the Doctor meets Seb.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:32
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I don't mind the reveal, I'm just not really sure what Missy being the Master is bringing to the series at this point. Though her killing of Doctor Chang at least sat better in hindsight, had that been an evil Romana, it would have been unfortunate. It makes me wonder though, is this a Regenerated Simm Master or has he taken someone else's body? I ask because there are still some Missy lines from earlier in the season which have yet to be explained, like her "I think I'll keep it" regarding 12's accent. If the Master took over a Time Lady body, it leads me to wonder if "Missy" might have been someone noteworthy before the Master took over and now he wants to take over the Doctor's body yet again. Of course if this is the Simm Master regenerated, then it's just a strange line. Teek fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Nov 1, 2014 |
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Nov 1, 2014 22:33
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Jerusalem posted:It's actually rather annoying, but the trailer seemingly showed footage from BOTH episodes (unless they filmed a bunch of extra stuff just to confuse the audience). Despite watching the trailer, and talking about it earlier today, somehow I managed to forget that the Cybermen were going to show up while watching. I think the weird first act distracted me. So the big reveal actually worked for me. And it was a fantastic twist. I do feel kinda dumb that the dark water didn't make me remember. But I'm glad, because wow. But even the iPlayer has a picture of Cybermen when you go there... it's like nobody actually realised that they were supposed to be a surprise in the script??!
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Nov 1, 2014 22:33
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PriorMarcus posted:I can't imagine that possibly being true. (yes, yes, trap sprung and all that) e: and then we have Dabir providing empirical evidence that k is a lot smaller than 1.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:36
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Teek posted:It makes me wonder though, is this a Regenerated Simm Master or has he taken someone else's body? I ask because there are still some Missy lines from earlier in the season which have yet to be explained, like her "I think I'll keep it" regarding 12's accent. If the Master took over a Time Lady body, it leads to wonder if "Missy" might have been someone noteworthy before the Master took over. Of course if this is the Simm Master regenerated, then it's just a strange line. This being the Master, I wouldn't be surprised if the line regarding the accent was that she was deigning to allow the Doctor's latest regeneration to live. The Master has always been enormously self-centered so it makes a mad kind of sense that she would think this is her decision to make - she likes the Doctor's Scottish accent so she is going to "allow" him to keep it.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:38
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Teek posted:I don't mind the reveal, I'm just not really sure what Missy being the Master is bringing to the series at this point. Though her killing of Doctor Chang at least sat better in hindsight, had that been an evil Romana, it would have been unfortunate. "How is the Master not dead" is one of those questions you're never really supposed to think too much about. See Fire, Planet of.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:39
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I liked the episode. I'm keen to see how it'll turn out. I'm not sure how I feel about the "obvious" reveal yet; I guess it seemed so obvious that it couldn't be the direction they'd go with it. Probably what they were counting on.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:39
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, we've only seen him INSIDE the Matrix Slice, so there's nothing (yet) to indicate he is actually a "real" person. We've seen Missy inside the NS too, when she was angry, so you can move between them both. Also, what did W3 actually stand for? DoctorWhat posted:"How is the Master not dead" is one of those questions you're never really supposed to think too much about. See Fire, Planet of. Sorry dude, that just doesn't work in modern storytelling.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:41
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PriorMarcus posted:We've seen Missy inside the NS too, when she was angry, so you can move between them both. "The Three Words", aka "don't cremate me".
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Nov 1, 2014 22:41
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PriorMarcus posted:Also, what did W3 actually stand for? It was "3W", so I guess it was "Three Words". EDIT: ^Beat me to it.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:41
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Clara really did put the sleep patch on him at the beginning, the Doctor dreamt he outwitted her, this is all a dream.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:42
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dsub posted:Clara really did put the sleep patch on him at the beginning, the Doctor dreamt he outwitted her, this is all a dream. Ask me what happens if you die in reality.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:43
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PriorMarcus posted:We've seen Missy inside the NS too, when she was angry, so you can move between them both. I'm not surprised she can jump between them, but I would be surprised if Seb could too - I don't see her sharing access like that. Who knows though, the Master did it before back in The Deadly Assassin. PriorMarcus posted:Also, what did W3 actually stand for? Three Words, named for the phrase that convinced the founder of the company (all a fiction, obviously) that humans continue to live after they died - "don't cremate me!"
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Nov 1, 2014 22:43
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Thom12255 posted:What I would like to know is why The Promised Land looked like a garden/tea party in the first few appearances and then became an office/dyson-city for the last few, and why The Master stopped handling the guests and handed it over to Seb. PriorMarcus posted:We've seen Missy inside the NS too, when she was angry, so you can move between them both.  .e: OR DOES IT? WELCOME TO MOFFAT'S NEXT TWO-PARTER
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Nov 1, 2014 22:46
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Metal Loaf posted:It was "3W", so I guess it was "Three Words". How did Clara not notice this massive contemporary scientific development? And how did Danny not know about it to change his cremation request? Was the 3W part of the episode taking place in the near future, because a few of the transistions made it seem like they were both taking place at the same time. Also, why do robots want to go to The Promised Land and how was it known about for thousands of years when it's actually sitting around in contemporary London being advertised as a company? Why take that one soldier from the Dalek episode or someone who was already a android? I know we've got a Part 2 but I'm going to guess nearly none of that is answered.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:47
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Jerusalem posted:I was kind of hoping when Missy told Doctor Chang that she wouldn't kill him till he said something nice When she said that I said to myself "don't say something nice, that way she CAN'T kill you!"
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Nov 1, 2014 22:47
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PriorMarcus posted:How did Clara not notice this massive contemporary scientific development? And how did Danny not know about it to change his cremation request? I assumed it was all invented for the Doctor's benefit.  quote:Was the 3W part of the episode taking place in the near future, because a few of the transistions made it seem like they were both taking place at the same time. Maybe "Heaven"/"The Promised Land"/"3W" is all actually inside the Master's TARDIS?
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Nov 1, 2014 22:49
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Just a heads up for all the Who-lovin' goons: I'm selling my collection of classic episodes (on VHS, so you can pretend to be Mugabe  and hoard tapes) and Target books over in SA-Mart.http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3677863 If nothing else, I want someone to appreciate the joke I made with my choice of thread tag. We now return you to discussion about tonight's episode, already in progress (I haven't seen it yet, so I'll be back under my rock).
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Nov 1, 2014 22:49
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I think Forest of the Night had something mentioning it was 2016, so yeah, "Next Sunday" rules are in effect.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:51
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PriorMarcus posted:How did Clara not notice this massive contemporary scientific development? And how did Danny not know about it to change his cremation request? PriorMarcus posted:Why take that one soldier from the Dalek episode or someone who was already a android? I'm not sure if the robots actually "knew" about The Nethersphere, it could just be The Master trying to co-opt afterlife ideas.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:54
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PriorMarcus posted:How did Clara not notice this massive contemporary scientific development? And how did Danny not know about it to change his cremation request? The conversations with Chang indicated it was still being kept a secret introduced to people on an individual basis, although there was also Governmental oversight of some sort. I'll have to watch again but I'm also pretty sure there was a line included about it being extremely expensive to get a spot in the dark water, so maybe the Master is being her typical jerkish self and gleefully using the bodies of 1%ers as her mindless slave army. 
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Nov 1, 2014 22:56
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PriorMarcus posted:How did Clara not notice this massive contemporary scientific development? And how did Danny not know about it to change his cremation request? Why do you need to put a human skeleton into a cyberman? A skeleton doesn't have a brain. Are they all fleshy first and the fleshy parts get somehow integrated over time? Where do you get the skeleton from? Is it dug up? Is it stolen from a morgue? Why does your afterlife body still feel what your real body feels and how is this relevant to cybermen? If it's because the real body is in a cyberman already, then why is being cremated even brought up? Is that kid a cyberman? 
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Nov 1, 2014 22:56
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It's pretty loving stupid to design a Cyberman whose body and mind are seperate but can still feel pain. Also, the Cybermen aren't loving robots driven by organic parts, they are cyborgs. If a loving skeleton with no brain is inside them and the mind is connected wirelessly why even bother with the skeleton? How is that related to the Cybermen at all really?
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Nov 1, 2014 22:59
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ITT: Trying to understand Moffat plots.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:01
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You know, I honestly thought Seb was played by Simm, but now looking Simm up I realize they don't really look alike.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:01
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PriorMarcus posted:It's pretty loving stupid to design a Cyberman whose body and mind are seperate but can still feel pain. If that's even true and not some BS they came up with to convince people to purge their emotions
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Nov 1, 2014 23:02
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PriorMarcus posted:It's pretty loving stupid to design a Cyberman whose body and mind are seperate but can still feel pain. The Cybermen's pre-existing history of conceptual/execution-of-concept idiocy is kind of A Thing that the Mistress probably has to "go with". That or it's the New Who equivalent of the ludicrously over-complicated Masterplans made famous by Time-Flight and The King's Demons.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:05
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PriorMarcus posted:Of course, now the question is... Whose Seb? The Rani
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Nov 1, 2014 23:06
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Looke posted:If that's even true and not some BS they came up with to convince people to purge their emotions Well the entirety of this episode being exposition was already pretty bad, so if it turns out all of that exposistion was a lie that doesn't play into the plot then that's even worse. Honestly, even if you delete your emotions, what drives you as a Cyberman? Do you know your body is stamping around inside an Iron Man knock off? Do you control it? If not then why keep the mind. What do the Cybermen get out of this? I mean, I guess next week could be amazing and answer all of these questions, but it's going to lead to another episode of mainly exposistion. Any way - Going to put money on a power of love ending.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:07
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Looke posted:If that's even true and not some BS they came up with to convince people to purge their emotions Yeah, it seems pretty clear at the end that they get the new arrivals all hosed up emotionally and then offer them the sweet release of "deleting" their personalities so they can enjoy the rest of their afterlife without feeling miserable.... at which point THEY BECOME LIKE UZZZZZZZZ. That kid probably doesn't exist at all, but is a mental representation of Danny's grief and self-loathing over killing him, brought in by Seb who hoped to push him over the edge into accepting wiping his memory. It'll probably backfire as Danny's subconscious telling him he hasn't earned the right or the luxury to forget what he did.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:08
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PriorMarcus posted:Well the entirety of this episode being exposition was already pretty bad, so if it turns out all of that exposistion was a lie that doesn't play into the plot then that's even worse. It's exposition that plays into character development. The exposition is meant as much for Danny, Clara, and the Doctor as it is for us.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:09
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The kid is real. Danny and the kid will team up next week to escape the NS. Also, that means there's a 4 foot Cyberman out there.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:10
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Danny as a cyberman companion next year, we know the Doctor can grow to like individual ones!
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Nov 1, 2014 23:11
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Doug Sisk posted:Danny as a cyberman companion next year, we know the Doctor can grow to like individual ones! The Cybermen win, Danny exist was one for thousands and thousands of years. Danny is Handles.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:13
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PriorMarcus posted:Any way - Going to put money on a power of love ending. The Master will have planned for that, because that's how she lost when she was Mr Saxon.
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Nov 1, 2014 23:20
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