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somebody tell me cool death guard pre/post heresy books I've read the recent Space Wolf stuff which was pretty good but I also read Distant Echoes of Old Night and man that was steaming dogshit.
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Oct 29, 2014 04:49
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:somebody tell me cool death guard pre/post heresy books Nobody's written a good death guard book.
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Oct 29, 2014 04:51
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It's hard writing books about those whose mantra is "I just could not give a gently caress anymore."
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Oct 29, 2014 05:13
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I read Battle for the Abyss and while I didn't really like it I did enjoy the World Eaters in it, particularly the part where a group of World Eaters use one of their fallen as improvised cover. It's interesting reading those sorts of departures from the 'lesser' Legions when everything else in the HH seems relatively sterile.
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Oct 29, 2014 05:19
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Pyrolocutus posted:It's hard writing books about those whose mantra is "I just could not give a gently caress anymore." I don't know, you'd have to just make them really chill about everything. Even their best bud since the Siege of Terra exploding. "Oh, Jim's gone. Goodbye Jim."
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Oct 29, 2014 05:21
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Pyrolocutus posted:It's hard writing books about those whose mantra is "I just could not give a gently caress anymore." Find any book about Goths, substitute Death Guard instead. It's all nihilism. Say what you will about the Imperial Cult, but at least it's an ethos.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:00
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A lot of Bret Easton Ellis books would work pretty well as Traitor Legion books if you replace references to A. Testoni tasseled loafers and Brioni suits to Mk. IV panoply.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:10
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Shroud posted:Find any book about Goths, substitute Death Guard instead. It's all nihilism. Say what you will about the Imperial Cult, but at least it's an ethos. I like that the Terran Death Guard mostly came from far-future Britain. Seems accurate.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:57
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Sulecrist posted:Part of the problem with Atlas Infernal is that it's super poorly edited. There are comma errors on every page, character names transposed, insanely inappropriate dangling participle clauses, lovely adverbs, and so on. Then there's stuff that may or may not be intentional, like POV shifts mid-paragraph. I read Legion of the Damned immediately following Atlas Infernal and the difference was like night and day.
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Oct 29, 2014 20:07
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Hard to write a good book about big bloated puss-bags who just run around spreading plague all day.
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Oct 29, 2014 22:02
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Mange Mite posted:What? In The First Heretic, Lorgar tells Magnus that the Emperor never raised the issue; that he denied his divinity but did not care that Lorgar felt he was holy. It's apparently part of the reason why Monarchia's purging came as such a blow. He could be lying, though why he would lie to his best friend and confidant (and someone who can mind-read primarchs easily) is a bit of an issue. Or he could be deluding himself, of course. Most likely, no one bothered to keep all the retcons straight. I really wish someone would write a series of books about the Scouring; the reclaiming of the Imperium after the Heresy. I wonder if the whole God-Emperor faith was a conscious choice ("The people have seen daemons. We must give them a god to protect them"), or if things just degenerated slowly in that direction as the Primarchs died/vanished and no absolute personal authority was left to unify the species.
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Oct 29, 2014 22:17
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One of the recent audio shorts is from Bjorn's perspective and takes place during the scouring. The flight of the traitor legions left a lot of people thinking they'd never come back and eternal peace (or something less than 'only war' at any rate) had finally come around. Russ does not believe it so.
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Oct 29, 2014 22:21
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Uroboros posted:Hard to write a good book about big bloated puss-bags who just run around spreading plague all day. They're pus-bags but not puss-bags.
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Oct 29, 2014 23:07
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Sephyr posted:In The First Heretic, Lorgar tells Magnus that the Emperor never raised the issue; that he denied his divinity but did not care that Lorgar felt he was holy. It's apparently part of the reason why Monarchia's purging came as such a blow. I think it more likely, given what we've seen of the Emperor's character, that the Emperor expected Lorgar to think things through after hearing the Truth (as defined by the Emperor) and proceed to be the good little automaton the Emperor intended him to be. He really seems to stumble whenever the primarchs act... human.
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Oct 29, 2014 23:19
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Lorgar wasn't acting human, Lorgar was acting contrarian. He was spreading exactly the opposite message of the rest of the Primarchs; of course he was going to be corrected. The Emperor's big shtick was reason and truth and science and you have Lorgar running around saying 'hey guys the Crusade sure is awesome but just so you know the science stuff is all wrong, there's totally a God he's right over there' with an eighteenth of the mightiest combined military force in recorded history pretending to play nice with the Crusade but he's undermining it the whole time, even before he fell to Chaos.
A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 00:36
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Lorgar wasn't acting human, Lorgar was acting contrarian. He was spreading exactly the opposite message of the rest of the Primarchs; of course he was going to be corrected. The Emperor's big shtick was reason and truth and science and you have Lorgar running around saying 'hey guys the Crusade sure is awesome but just so you know the science stuff is all wrong, there's totally a God he's right over there' with an eighteenth of the mightiest combined military force in recorded history pretending to play nice with the Crusade but he's undermining it the whole time, even before he fell to Chaos. I think it has something more to do with where he grew up. Basically he couldn't help being contrarian because he was a zealot who had just finished purging the other religion on his planet, because he had a vision of the emperor's coming. Probably the vision made him believe his own father was some kind of god based on his upbringing. Kharn_The_Betrayer fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 02:32
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Mange Mite posted:They're pus-bags but not puss-bags. Ah, totally what I meant to say... REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Lorgar wasn't acting human, Lorgar was acting contrarian. He was spreading exactly the opposite message of the rest of the Primarchs; of course he was going to be corrected. The Emperor's big shtick was reason and truth and science and you have Lorgar running around saying 'hey guys the Crusade sure is awesome but just so you know the science stuff is all wrong, there's totally a God he's right over there' with an eighteenth of the mightiest combined military force in recorded history pretending to play nice with the Crusade but he's undermining it the whole time, even before he fell to Chaos. Doesn't help when he has 2 devils sitting on his shoulders the entire time. You think since Erebus and Kor Phaerbon(spelling?) were chaos worshippers from the beginning, they would of had some sort of really negative reaction by merely being in the presence of The Emperor. TheArmorOfContempt fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 02:47
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Depends on whether or not you think the Emperor had some intrinsic anti Chaos thing. I also liked the Dornian Heresy thing where Kor Phaeron dies during gene seed implantation and without good influence Lorgar goes on to loyally defend The Imperium and found Imperial Cult.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:06
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Has there been any news about anything new coming out of the BL any time soon? I haven't heard of any big releases aside from the talon of horus. What has abnett been upto?
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Oct 30, 2014 05:04
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Abnett was involved in the recent Alien Isolation to some capacity. He showed up as a writer in the credits.
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Oct 30, 2014 08:58
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MrNemo posted:Depends on whether or not you think the Emperor had some intrinsic anti Chaos thing. I also liked the Dornian Heresy thing where Kor Phaeron dies during gene seed implantation and without good influence Lorgar goes on to loyally defend The Imperium and found Imperial Cult. Well...he is the Anathema. The Grey Knights literally melt away demons with their presence.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:04
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Lorgar wasn't acting human, Lorgar was acting contrarian. Are these two somehow contradictory now?
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Oct 30, 2014 17:14
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Not sure why people are so down on the idea of Death Guard books, I can think of plenty of examples where the main characters were self loathing relentless sources of destruction and it worked pretty well. They are all generally over into the horror genre though, rather that space fantasy. Stover would be the closest I can think here.
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Oct 30, 2014 19:23
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Uroboros posted:Well...he is the Anathema. The Grey Knights literally melt away demons with their presence. Another thing i thought was wonky in first heretic is shouldn't the emperor recognized the word bearers proto chaos chapter symbols when they were all on monarchia? Seems like he would've erased them then and there.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:22
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How much the Emperor knows about Chaos at that point is unclear. He clearly sees faith as harmful and wants to seal the Warp by getting humanity to colonize the Webway, and has dealt with the chaos gods in the past (confirmed by Vengeful Spirit). That said, he might not necessarily know about 8-pointed stars and the details of each deity and its workings, much like Magnus had a lot of lore but not many specifics regarding the Pantheon. But yes, if he knew, he really should have gone into high alert after seeing Colchiss and learning of its civil war. Heck, if he'd told Lorgar that they had to be guardian 'gods' because there were actual demons out there hungering for humanity, the Word Bearers might have turned out entirely different.
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Oct 31, 2014 03:58
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Seriously, how many of the imperium's problems are because of "if the Emperor had TOLD x..."
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Oct 31, 2014 11:55
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Dog_Meat posted:Seriously, how many of the imperium's problems are because of "if the Emperor had TOLD x..." Pretty much all of them.
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Oct 31, 2014 13:43
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VanSandman posted:Nobody's written a good death guard book. I don't know, I enjoyed Cadian Blood. The Death Guard aren't the main focus, but they are the main villian.
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Oct 31, 2014 16:45
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Khizan posted:Are these two somehow contradictory now? No, but the issue wasn't him acting 'human', it was him going counter to the thing he was campaigning to do.
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Oct 31, 2014 17:25
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It seems like almost all the Primarchs had some sort of disagreement with the Emperor about something or other (Nikea being the clearest example)and Lorgar was still reuniting human planets. It also might not have been clear to the Emperor how fervently he was following his religious beliefs. There wasn't much if any direct oversight. I could buy that big E took Lorgar's theology as poetic stuff and thought he'd be following his main mission. It seems clear from Monarchia that his real anger was due not just to the religious stuff but also because out had been a bigger priority than the Crusade. Lorgar wasn't trying to reunite humanity but to convert worlds and establish his kooky religion. It was that ignoring of his duties that really pissed the Emperor off. I think if Lorgar had been spreading his word as a side effect of his campaigns it would have been tolerated but he pretty much up and went 'screw my orders, I need to go evangelist and spend enormous resources and time on building cathedrals to my dad!'
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Nov 1, 2014 08:42
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MrNemo posted:It seems like almost all the Primarchs had some sort of disagreement with the Emperor about something or other (Nikea being the clearest example)and Lorgar was still reuniting human planets. It also might not have been clear to the Emperor how fervently he was following his religious beliefs. There wasn't much if any direct oversight. And yet First Heretic makes a point that worlds turned by Lorgar stay loyal and devote entirely to the Imperium. drat it, Dad - can't you just say "well done, son"? Not to mention that after Monarchia the Word Bearers end up pushing out further than the other legions to make up for the shame. Maybe a simple "that'll do pig" from the Emperor would have helped. This is why I love Abnett's take on Gulliman. Gulliman knows to put others before himself and use their strengths. He knows not to place himself as regent in Unremembered Empire, knows who to look up to and has the confidence to make decisions himself. I also love his message to Lorgar at the start of Know No Fear about wanting to put right the wrong done to him at Monarchia and how uncomfortable he was playing that role. Gulliman gets it, and if he'd have had chance to say that to Lorgar before he went all spirit questy he might have pulled him back. Then again, 40k would be pretty boring if things had worked out for the best.
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Nov 1, 2014 09:56
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In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future there is only fraternal counseling and mended relations. 
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Nov 1, 2014 13:50
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Sephyr posted:In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future there is only fraternal counseling and mended relations. Might be fun to write an alternate 40k future where the Emperor did everything properly, humanity conquers the whole galaxy and there is no more war. Call it PeaceFlower 40,000. The twist will be that humanity also exterminated all other forms of intelligent life and anyone that doesnt fit a very particular definition of human, and are living in a Nazi utopia. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 1, 2014 |
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Nov 1, 2014 14:36
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Mr.48 posted:Might be fun to write an alternate 40k future where the Emperor did everything properly, humanity conquers the whole galaxy and everything is no more war. Call it PeaceFlower 40,000. The twist will be that humanity also exterminated all other forms of intelligent life and anyone that doesnt fit a very particular definition of human, and are living in a Nazi utopia. Then we could see the primarchs fulfilling their role outside of war, being builders and leaders and politicians.
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Nov 1, 2014 18:23
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PRESIDENT GOKU posted:Then we could see the primarchs fulfilling their role outside of war, being builders and leaders and politicians. Ultramarines act as diplomats and renaissance men (while still being insufferable rules followers). Space Wolves just drink, fight, tell stories and disappear into the darkness of far space every few decades. The Imperial Fists continue to be assholes and cut themselves in private while thinking about how they're totally not worthy of being daddy's favourites and everyone must, like, totally hate them for not being as awesome as they want to be. The Dark Angels probably still have a massive civil war that they cover up just because otherwise they'd have to confront that other dark secret in their closet so they focus on just being traitors to humanity.The White Scars The Sons of Horus are just totally chill and cool because everyone loves big E's favourite son. The World Eaters started a thrash metal group and continue to travel the galaxy rocking awesome tunes and literally headbanging and moshing people to death. Emperor's Children spend all their time painting pictures, making sculptures, etc. although they are all naked and of each other. The Iron Warriors continue to do nothing constructive, just hang out playing wargames and talking about how they could totally make a more awesome fortress than the Imperial Fists but noone's asked them to yet.The Death Guard are still pretty much assholes that noone likes. The Thousand Sons were eaten by the Warp, it was kind of a tragedy but everyone agreed that it was pretty much inevitable. The Night Lords have turned to basically working like the Mafia, only more like the mafia off those classic American sitcoms where everyone has nicknames and they just eat a lot of pizza. The Alpha Legion may or may not be peaceful and cool. I mean, they seem to be but that means that's what they want you to think!?!>
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Nov 1, 2014 19:54
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I would unironically read the hell out of that universe.
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Nov 1, 2014 20:07
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I must admit, if Kurze greeted M'shen with "Hey, why you a-gotta do this to me?", it would have been a lot more interesting.
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Nov 1, 2014 20:46
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MrNemo posted:Ultramarines act as diplomats and renaissance men (while still being insufferable rules followers). Space Wolves just drink, fight, tell stories and disappear into the darkness of far space every few decades. The Imperial Fists continue to be assholes and cut themselves in private while thinking about how they're totally not worthy of being daddy's favourites and everyone must, like, totally hate them for not being as awesome as they want to be. The Dark Angels probably still have a massive civil war that they cover up just because otherwise they'd have to confront that other dark secret in their closet so they focus on just being traitors to humanity.The White Scars So when do we write this?
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Nov 1, 2014 21:46
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Even if Big E didn't bork up his sons. I think the Necrons and the Nids would still be a threat. And dear lord. Imagine a Warboss who survived a hundred encounters with Angron and Cruze. He'd be the size of a titan and carries a Mek like a club that fires Rokets and flies to planets on a red Meteor like a surf board while Orky metal plays in the background.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:37
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I want to read that book.
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Nov 2, 2014 01:48
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