|
Errant Gin Monks posted:I play Jund in legacy and haven't ever lost to dredge. Abrupt decaying my own stuff is a normal play for me when the 4th bridge hits the graveyard just to watch them sit there stunned. Deathrites also eat that deck alive. Aether Vial + Containment Priest: the sickest of combos. But yeah, that guy is why I'm gonna try Bant in legacy. It's so good against every deck I hate playing against. Stoneforge is fine? It's probably the weakest of the broken 2-drops. Edit: how are you bored of legacy playing those decks? Jund doesn't lose to any of those decks. I'd never get bored playing actual decks with lots of interaction instead of Burn, Dredge, and Miracles that are at my store these days. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Nov 3, 2014 |
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 07:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 06:26 |
|
|
suicidesteve posted:Aether Vial + Containment Priest: the sickest of combos. I saw a thoptersword shardless bant deck that looked funny the other day. CPriest in the sideboard would be a fun tech to have. The deck looked pretty amusing but it's definitely a grind it out deck like shardless BUG, just more so. Im also considering a bant maverick hybrid, but I'm still working out the decklist. KotR is hard to work with because of DRS. suicidesteve posted:Edit: how are you bored of legacy playing those decks? Jund doesn't lose to any of those decks. I'd never get bored playing actual decks with lots of interaction instead of Burn, Dredge, and Miracles that are at my store these days. Because it's the same game every time. They play a thing, I kill it. They counter a thing and play a thing, we kill each other's things until 12 turns go by and someone wins. OH LOOK ANOTHER TRUE NAME!! And delver flips and go gently caress yourself I'm tired of delver. I even have the ability to build RUG delver, I have played it in the past but I find myself hating myself when I can't keep a smug look off my face when I stifle a fetchland. I guess I actually played canadian threshold but whatever. I want to punch myself when I play stifle. I enjoy playing doomsday as well but after a week or two people figure out how to stop it. I play the mean deck variant with lab maniac. Doomsday is my go to in vintage tournaments though. I don't know I just get tired of playing against the same decks. I always like playing against miracles because they get so mad when I abrupt decay their poo poo. Yeah go ahead and flip that card dude that counterbalance is gone regardless. Edit2: I'm also the jackass who played turboGates in standard and pissed everyone off so take my opinions with a grain of salt. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Nov 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 07:35
|
|
|
The opinion might be: "Take a break from Legacy." Or Magic in general. Seriously, a hobby shouldn't be causing that level of annoyance and boredom. Also, variety is the spice of life and what not.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 08:26
|
|
|
Ramos posted:The opinion might be: "Take a break from Legacy." Or Magic in general. Seriously, a hobby shouldn't be causing that level of annoyance and boredom. Also, variety is the spice of life and what not. I have. I just casually play commander when I go up to the shop. I love commander because you get to play stupid cards. I have my regular rules Sigarda Voltron deck and two duel decks, Marath and Doran. I prefer the duel decks now even though I didn't like the rules at first. I debated getting back into standard but the card prices are ridiculous for something that will be worth 2 bucks in a few months. I don't enjoy spending 400 bucks on a deck that's going to last 3 months.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 08:30
|
|
|
Dredge is pretty cool because it's about as far away from Magic as you can get while still playing Magic
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 09:05
|
|
|
Errant Gin Monks posted:I saw a thoptersword shardless bant deck that looked funny the other day. CPriest in the sideboard would be a fun tech to have. The deck looked pretty amusing but it's definitely a grind it out deck like shardless BUG, just more so. Sup, turboGates buddy? I main decked Slaughter Games to gently caress with Stormbreath Dragon and Grey Merchant. Also, when it was INN/RTR block, I ran Hold The Gates and Lingering Souls for extra value. Holy poo poo. 5 color turbofog/gates/sphinx's Rev/treasure cruise/lingering Souls. I think that might work as a lovely modern option.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 09:44
|
|
|
If you want to be cool in Legacy, just play Sacland Tendrils and love every second. Now featuring a single Tendo Ice Bridge!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 10:01
|
|
|
Play Punishing Maverick and just clown on Delvers all day, then kill them with Marit Lage.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 10:08
|
|
|
Mondrian posted:Play Punishing Maverick and just clown on Delvers all day, then kill them with Marit Lage. This is the correct answer
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 10:58
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:If you want to play a mediocre deck which wins sometimes because True-Name is a card that exists, Merfolk is the thing. Jund is absurdly good in a meta with mostly fair decks. I don't think I'd ever play non-BUG Nic Fit, but that's just me. The only way for me to pick up Jund in the next two weeks is to use my Delver stuff as trade fodder, or find someone to loan me the entire deck, and I don't think either of those will happen. Punishing Fire is definitely where you want to be right now between D&T and Delver, I guess anything that uses targeted discard is a lot worse in the Treasure Cruise meta right now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:11
|
|
|
Turning this post into something actually relevant to the thread: Would it appease everyone (Maro and the people who disagree with him) to give Hornet Queen a hybrid G/B mana cost? It would make it viable in green decks all the same, but it would also make it both green and black, which is a disadvantage (and it justifies the deathtouch from a colour pie perspective).
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:20
|
|
|
xeose4 posted:Turning this post into something actually relevant to the thread: Green is secondary in deathtouch, that isn't the problem with Hornet Queen. Hornet Queen is a good, green flier, and Green is supposed to be the worst when it comes to flying (which is why it has reach and Plummet effects).
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:25
|
|
|
xeose4 posted:Turning this post into something actually relevant to the thread: Maro would say hybrid cards would need to be something printable as monocolored in both colors.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:26
|
|
|
xeose4 posted:Turning this post into something actually relevant to the thread: Hybrid is for something that can be eother or color. Its not the flavor he has a problem with it's the mechanical qualities. Black/Green or even White/Green or Blue/Green gold card would do fine, but not hybrid.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:26
|
|
|
By that train of thought, what is blue bad at?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:27
|
|
|
xeose4 posted:Turning this post into something actually relevant to the thread: No, but bees in Magic have always been green (Killer, Unyaro) and green is secondary on deathtouch if we are going to talk pie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:28
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:By that train of thought, what is blue bad at? "Efficient permanents" - although that's a stretch nowadays.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:29
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:By that train of thought, what is blue bad at? Creatures, generally. Especially on the lower end of the scale, blue doesn't get the good stuff the other colours can get. Watchwolf/Fleecemane Lion is a good example of what blue doesn't get. But hey, Delver says hello. It's not that Delver isn't blue (blue IS the colour of change and whatnot), but he's too easily used as an example of a super-good blue one-drop, which probably has more to do with Legacy and Modern than with Delver himself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:33
|
|
|
Lars posted:No, but bees in Magic have always been green (Killer, Unyaro) and green is secondary on deathtouch if we are going to talk pie. They could always make... Wait for it. Okay, here it comes. Zombees Serperoth posted:Creatures, generally. Especially on the lower end of the scale, blue doesn't get the good stuff the other colours can get. Watchwolf/Fleecemane Lion is a good example of what blue doesn't get. That's stretching it nowadays isn't it? Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Nov 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:33
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:They could always make... Sure - it's not like they haven't done Zombie Insects before... http://magiccards.info/cmd/en/90.html
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:37
|
|
|
Serperoth posted:Green is secondary in deathtouch, that isn't the problem with Hornet Queen. Hornet Queen is a good, green flier, and Green is supposed to be the worst when it comes to flying (which is why it has reach and Plummet effects). But isn't Black really good at flying? Hybrid flyer with deathtouch would still make sense for B/G. gang sines posted:Maro would say hybrid cards would need to be something printable as monocolored in both colors. Ah, that seems to be the problem. Count Bleck posted:By that train of thought, what is blue bad at? Back in my day, Blue was bad at dealing with decks that poured out more creatures that you could deal with (which is why I liked tons of walls in my decks, to deal with the White Weenies and Green/Red's zerg rushes), and couldn't get rid of enchantments/artifacts without countering them before they got cast. But nowadays I got no clue. I'm guessing they printed out mass-bounces for Blue so that's no longer a concern?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:38
|
|
|
Yeah, bounce is more universal now, but counterspells are nerfed compared to "back in the day".
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:39
|
|
|
Blue is also bad at removal. Once the countermagic window is gone, the best blue can generally do with a problematic permanent is bounce it or tap it (which does nothing against enchantments and planeswalkers).
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:40
|
|
|
I think what I'm getting at here is that blue can be at the very least good at everything but so help you if green gets to have a superstar flier for once in almost never.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:40
|
|
|
Lars posted:"Efficient permanents" - although that's a stretch nowadays. Lars posted:No, but bees in Magic have always been green (Killer, Unyaro) and green is secondary on deathtouch if we are going to talk pie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:53
|
|
|
xeose4 posted:But isn't Black really good at flying? Hybrid flyer with deathtouch would still make sense for B/G.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:55
|
|
|
Blue can fill up a graveyard but can't really empty it on its own. Blue's removal is either temporary, prevention or involves changing something into something else. It rarely gets hard removal. The reason they changed the legend rule was so that it wouldn't have hard removal for legends with clones. ...and thats all I can't think of for limits on blues color pie? It has efficient creatures and creatures with annoying abilities but all colors now kind of get efficient creatures and creatures with annoying abilities. Also this only applies to mostly modern magic cards, because older cards didn't play by the rules.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:57
|
|
|
The deathtouch part is not and never has been the problem with Hornet Queen et al., it's the flying part that's a problem. It would be fine as a black card... black gets flying and deathtouch all the time. It would also be fine if it didn't have flying (and reflavored to Cobra Queen or something). The thing about hybrid is that, well... a 3{B/G} card can be cast for 3G, so it needs to respect green's slice of pie; and it can also be cast for 3B, so it needs to also respect black's slice of pie. R&D have not always been super strict on this and allowed a few stretches, some really pretty questionable, but it's not a good reason to do more of it and it won't rescue Hornet Queen. Regarding creatures, well, blue's creatures really are worse than pretty much everyone else's. Let's not forget that Delver is only strong when it's the centerpiece of the deck, whereas everyone who can play green can play e.g. Tarmogoyf or Thragtusk or Polukranos or whatever the heck you're looking for. Green always has huge, efficient creatures whereas blue really doesn't very often, and they're usually not very splashable. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Nov 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 13:58
|
|
|
blue is bad at being well loved and popular
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 14:20
|
|
|
TBH I can't really defend Blue. Give me a deck that's 20 islands and 40 different counterspells and I'll have the time of my life. I'm an awful person. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 14:26
|
|
|
gang sines posted:blue is bad at being well loved and popular From a sample size of goons, maybe. If you asked the majority of PT-train players, I think you'd find that Blue is the Scarlett Johanssen of the color pie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 14:27
|
|
|
xeose4 posted:TBH I can't really defend Blue. Give me a deck that's 20 islands and 40 different counterspells and I'll have the time of my life. This was my first real deck and aside from counter spells it only had stasis and a single morphling. It was an awesome deck. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 14:34
|
|
|
On the subject of hybrid casting costs, how does Maro justify Phyrexian mana? I'm pretty sure blue doesn't usually get to pay life instead of mana, or have cheap pump tricks like a "target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn" instant, but thanks to Phyrexian mana blue is allowed to do both. Is it the same reason that makes a 5/5 Flying Artifact for 6 (which can go in green decks) perfectly fine but makes a 6/6 Flying for 6G ruin magic forever?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 14:40
|
|
|
Phyrexian mana is ostensibly one of those "blatant color pie bleeds, but for a good reason". New Phyrexia has a lot of cards that are more "black" than they should be. The argument there was it was supposed to evoke just how much of an evil shithole Mirrodin had become at that point. I don't know if I buy it, and Dismember at least became a bit of a problem. See also: Leeching Bite, Mindculling, Numbing Dose, Phyrexian Unlife, Psychic Barrier, Suture Priest...
Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Nov 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 14:50
|
|
|
He mostly doesn't and thinks it was a mistake, or at least the most prominent cards are. Phyrexian mana started off as the idea of doing for spells what artifacts did for permanents - another way NPH was meant to be uncomfortably blurring lines and invoking the Phyrexian mixture of flesh and machine. But along the way, that idea got a bit lost, the effects got stronger and more obviously coloured, and the conceit that these spells were essentially cheaper instead of being more expensive like artifacts really screwed the whole thing up.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 14:52
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:From a sample size of goons, maybe. If you asked the majority of PT-train players, I think you'd find that Blue is the Scarlett Johanssen of the color pie. pt train players seems like a more rarefied sample than goons :I
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 15:11
|
|
|
Part of the documents you sign when you qualify for the major WOTC tournaments requires you to state that you love blue, or your invite is void.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 15:29
|
|
|
gang sines posted:blue is bad at being well loved and popular Blue is a polarizing color, the people who like it (such as myself), love the color. I like being able to control a game and dictate the pace of play. I like being presented with threats and lining out my answers correctly. I like drawing cards. In fact its hard for me to accept the fact that blue is disliked because it gets to do awesome things, like win a limited environment with its only wincon being elixir of immortality instead of just doing what every other color does and jamming creatures. Nothing against jamming creatures, its fun as well, especially when backed up with Mana Leak and Snapcaster Mage.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 15:38
|
|
|
I haven't had a favourite colour since I first played back in grade 6. I just have favourite decks now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 06:26 |
|
|
Entropic posted:I haven't had a favourite colour since I first played back in grade 6. I just have favourite decks now. Same here. But then again, I think I'm pretty much a Johnny. I want my deck to do something cool and if that requires playing color X, then so be it. That being said, many of my favorite decks are blue, mostly because I like doing stupid things like Rite of Replication + Halimar Excavator or casting Villainous Wealth for 20. A lot of people are bitter because blue has historically recieved some of the most horribly broken cards in existence and those cards are still legal in horribly broken formats like Legacy and Vintage which they insist on playing for some unfathomable reason. Blue has gotten a lot more fair in the rotating formats of recent years, but the memory still lingers and people still can't resist the knee-jerk reaction whenever blue gets something strong.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 15:51
|
|