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Dessel posted:Like, in average Gundam show the president's son/someone would be way more antagonistic towards Bellri, but no, everyone is warming up to him. He's just a kid who isn't even aware of the realities of what his family/Capital does. Everyone isn't a massive rear end in a top hat. He's actually a likable and friendly person who has shown an interest in doing right by them. Tomino said it himself, this is a Gundam not for people used to regular Gundam.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:49
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It does seem like the Amerians are granting an enemy combatant a really surprising amount of freedom, especially considering he brought two others with him, and they seem to spend a lot of their time talking about how they're gonna escape with the G-Self. It's not like the Capitol Guard/Army have committed some egregious atrocity that he witnessed; it seems like his life's pretty good overall. Nobody vaporized his mom in front of him, at least.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:50
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The Muffinlord posted:It does seem like the Amerians are granting an enemy combatant a really surprising amount of freedom, especially considering he brought two others with him, and they seem to spend a lot of their time talking about how they're gonna escape with the G-Self. It's not like the Capitol Guard/Army have committed some egregious atrocity that he witnessed; it seems like his life's pretty good overall. The Captain Army is using taboo technology, which to Bellri is straight-up unthinkable.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:51
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ImpAtom posted:The Captain Army is using taboo technology, which to Bellri is straight-up unthinkable. So is he part of the Amerian army now? Aren't they breaking this nebulous-rear end technology taboo too? I honestly don't think he gives a poo poo who he's fighting for as long as he gets to PEW PEW WHOOSH COOL MECHAS YAAAY.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:53
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ImpAtom posted:The Captain Army is using taboo technology, which to Bellri is straight-up unthinkable. The G-Self seems like it would be pretty taboo. Although he didn't build it. 
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Nov 3, 2014 00:54
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John Carstairs posted:The G-Self seems like it would be pretty taboo. Although he didn't build it. The Muffinlord posted:So is he part of the Amerian army now? Aren't they breaking this nebulous-rear end technology taboo too? I honestly don't think he gives a poo poo who he's fighting for as long as he gets to PEW PEW WHOOSH COOL MECHAS YAAAY. It is because it is the Capital being involved. They are basically a religious institution. Bellri said it himself earlier. The entire point is to avoid descending back into the shitstorm that was the Universal Century which is what the Capital and is power restrictions and taboo enforcement are supposed to do. In theory the other nations can break the taboo but if they do so, welp, time for some power restrictions fucklord, hope you like your family starving. But now the Capital Army is doing it and that's a really bad thing because there is nobody to restrict them. Bellri isn't part of the Ameria Army. He was planning to defect with the location of their space fleet but poo poo went down. Even if he did escape, it isn't clear what he intends to do. He's even crying out that it is the fault of the Army for using taboo technology that he had to kill his instructor. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 00:56
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ImpAtom posted:There are three factions: Yeah, I've understood all of this at least on some level. The backpacks are those mecha transporters or whatever? The naming is a bit confusing. It isn't the overall plot that I have issues with, it's in the details. Nothing feels quite as "solid" because the series doesn't overtly explain everything. It's difficult to put in words. edit: I guess your average anime/series is really much heavier on exposition and character stereotypes, I suppose.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:57
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Dessel posted:Yeah, I've understood all of this at least on some level. The backpacks are those mecha transporters or whatever? The naming is a bit confusing. It isn't the overall plot that I have issues with, it's in the details. Nothing feels quite as "solid" because the series doesn't overtly explain everything. It's difficult to put in words. The backpacks are those things they're equipping on the G-Self. With the possible exception of the flight pack (which it had in the original drop), every backpack it has had it equipped is Ameria-built. (And even had plates inside saying so because they're not great at disguising this poo poo.) They were using the G-Self as the testbed for the Reflector Pack because it could reasonably equip it. (They couldn't get it functioning with the Montero.) It's worth remembering that they're almost Turn-Aish in that all this stuff is ancient technology they are trying to recover, not new technology, with again the possible exception of the G-Self. They needed to unlock the G-Self so they could study the data inside of it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 01:00
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RE: Bellri's motivation for going with the pirates Bellri is a guy who kind of just goes with the flow. He acts on impulse without really thinking about it or considering the consequences, because being a prodigy and a spoiled kid meant that nothing in his life really ever spiraled out of his control, so he tends to take reckless actions without hesitation, like when he attacked Aida and the G-Self with his Recten in the first episode. It was incredibly reckless of him to do so, but things worked out in his favor anyway. So when Klim attacked the Capital and demanded the release of the G-Self and Aida, Colonel Cumpa told them where the G-Self was, which Bellri interpreted as the Colonel wanting to test Bellri's loyalty and capabilities. So he decides to go along with Aida because he's interested in her and the G-Self, and to spy on the pirates and determine whether they are pirates or an actual military detachment, before stealing the G-Self back and returning with it to the Capital. In order to do so, he played nice with the pirates in order to gain their trust, believing himself to be on this fun adventure, unaware that the Capital Army is using him as an excuse to ramp up their military. Dellensen's death is a hell of a rude awakening for the kid, who's finally learning that not everything will go the way he wants it to, and that his actions and lack of discipline can result in real consequences, which is the lesson Dellensen was never able to teach him in life, succeeding only with his own death.
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Nov 3, 2014 01:41
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Jesus, according to the tech fluff, the Elf series have Degeneracy Reactors which are what allow for their beam scattering bullshit. That's crazy.
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Nov 3, 2014 06:47
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what the gently caress is an elf reactor i watch the show for cool robot fights but i have no idea how to reliably call a fight one way or the other
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Nov 3, 2014 07:09
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ImpAtom posted:Jesus, according to the tech fluff, the Elf series have Degeneracy Reactors which are what allow for their beam scattering bullshit. That's crazy. Does that mean they're powered by the same thing as the Gunbuster. 
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Nov 3, 2014 13:20
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Sakurazuka posted:Does that mean they're powered by the same thing as the Gunbuster. The same thing as a certain mustachioed mobile suit, according to the internet.
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Nov 3, 2014 13:27
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Azipod posted:The same thing as a certain mustachioed mobile suit, according to the internet. Said mustachioed mobile suit has two of them though, along with an innovative movement system that means it has no actuators or any other kind of internal skeleton, but instead basically makes a puppet of itself and moves by pulling on it's own strings so that the weight is cut down and the innards are much less cluttered and thus can equip more weapons and equipment. The series is packing some cool toys, but Turn-A still has the edge on it at the moment in terms of technology.
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Nov 3, 2014 20:19
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tsob posted:Said mustachioed mobile suit has two of them though, along with an innovative movement system that means it has no actuators or any other kind of internal skeleton, but instead basically makes a puppet of itself and moves by pulling on it's own strings so that the weight is cut down and the innards are much less cluttered and thus can equip more weapons and equipment. The series is packing some cool toys, but Turn-A still has the edge on it at the moment in terms of technology. Well, yeah. That's because the show ends as soon as something gets to Turn A's tech-level (or, to be more precise, Turn X's, because that came first), the series either ends or turns into Fist of the North Star.
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Nov 3, 2014 21:06
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Dessel posted:Is it just me or is this show really confusing? I feel the same way. 5 episodes in and I wish I really knew what was going on. It's like if I'm playing a video game on one monitor and have youtube going on in the other and not really paying attention, except with this I am actively watching and still feel disconnected. There's been nothing in this show to endear me to any of the characters, to make me care if anyone dies, or give a poo poo about either of the factions. I can't even get excited about the tech because everyone is using crazy future technology compared to Gundam UC, but going about if it's no big deal. If this is a Gundam not for fans of Gundam I want to know who it's for so I can know how I am supposed to enjoy this.
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Nov 4, 2014 20:39
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I mean, I get what's happening, but it constantly feels like everything is at most implied and the motivations of characters/events are kind of, err, psychotic, including the protagonist's. Like, in average Gundam show the president's son/someone would be way more antagonistic towards Bellri, but no, everyone is warming up to him. The battle in this episode was also really confusing. The entire political situation of the world is confusing. gently caress, I'm still confused where the G-Self came from, and as far as I understand we have no idea who made it.
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I'm enjoying it almost entirely off the designs and action. Fortunately the writing isn't dragging it down nearly as much as before, but it's still not to that sweet spot of "good" writing yet.
WickedHate fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 20:42
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I want to say I had similar issues with Eureka 7, where I felt like I was watching the show, but not understanding it completely. Still, like wickedHate I'm fully enjoying the designs and animation.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:33
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Faltion posted:I feel the same way. 5 episodes in and I wish I really knew what was going on. It's like if I'm playing a video game on one monitor and have youtube going on in the other and not really paying attention, except with this I am actively watching and still feel disconnected. There's been nothing in this show to endear me to any of the characters, to make me care if anyone dies, or give a poo poo about either of the factions. I can't even get excited about the tech because everyone is using crazy future technology compared to Gundam UC, but going about if it's no big deal. If this is a Gundam not for fans of Gundam I want to know who it's for so I can know how I am supposed to enjoy this. I think the show's just lost you, there is nothing about this show that's hard to understand.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:34
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Faltion posted:If this is a Gundam not for fans of Gundam I want to know who it's for so I can know how I am supposed to enjoy this. Shortest answer is that it's a Tomino as hell show for fans of Tomino, and only had the gundam name attached partway through development.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:38
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Sharkopath posted:Shortest answer is that it's a Tomino as hell show for fans of Tomino, and only had the gundam name attached partway through development. That would make sense, as people who enjoy it keep using "That's just how Tomino is" to explain criticism. I sure as hell wouldn't be watching if the G-Reco looked as ugly as it did in the early designs.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:42
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The people is me, and it's not an excuse for criticism, more like a discussion of how I enjoy Tomino's style of writing over the proposed alternative. I really enjoy a more opaque style of storytelling, where characters dont provide direct exposition for the audience and knowledge of outside events is kept within themselves. It's fun to piece the universe together from the fragments of information that are situationally given, and exceptionally satisfying to have those hypotheses proven right through new episodes, the world is planned out well enough that theres an order to everything, and its very cool to peek inside it and figure out where its going. That's why I like this show a lot, Gainer and Turn A were structured in a similar way, but I saw those shows after they had already aired, its exciting to be able to do it live.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:50
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It's not so much that people are saying "it's a Tomino show" to dispel criticism, as much as to explain that Tomino's non-Gundam shows are stylistically fairly different from his Gundam stuff. Which is why a Gundam fan might not enjoy the show. Gundam is sometimes compared to Star Wars so I'll use that as a jumping off point for one example: Someone that loves the hell out of Star Wars might not enjoy American Graffiti. Lucas was responsible for both, but they're very different movies! Srice fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 21:57
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For those of you struggling with Bellri's motivations, I'd suggest watching the first few episodes of Aura Battler Dunbine. Bellri and Shou Zama feel very similar to me in a way I have difficulty explaining since the characters themselves are so different. They both wind up defecting in a unique prototype with about a similar amount of lead-in and the same apparent degree of motivation (but without Dunbine's higher episode count to pad things out), they both have a thing for the mysterious red-haired woman from Ameri(c)a, and they're both basically kids who find themselves caught up in fantastic circumstances. I expect it's going to have about the same end result as Dunbine, too, but look forward to being pleasantly surprised. The show is very Tomino. We're just trading Degwin Zabi with a flying dragon cane and a man named "Shott Weapon" in a hilarious skeleton costume for Klim Nick. I think ReconG came out ahead in that regard. 
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Nov 4, 2014 22:17
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Sharkopath posted:That's why I like this show a lot, Gainer and Turn A were structured in a similar way, but I saw those shows after they had already aired, its exciting to be able to do it live. I don't know about Gainer, but I've watched Turn A recently and it was a lot easier to follow, and the character's actions made more sense.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:18
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PoptartsNinja posted:For those of you struggling with Bellri's motivations, I'd suggest watching the first few episodes of Aura Battler Dunbine. Did you see the end of Dunbine? Everybody dying in an apocalyptic battle, except for Haro/the fish, seems like a little too much of a tonal shift for Tomino
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Nov 4, 2014 22:24
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WickedHate posted:I don't know about Gainer, but I've watched Turn A recently and it was a lot easier to follow, and the character's actions made more sense. Turn A's world was much more simplistic which helped with that also, The state of the Earth was very close to our own turn of the 20th century, and the moonrace despite being a bit forward with their access to technology and monarchist state, are basically modern people. Even in Turn A theres tons of concepts hidden from the viewer until deeper on in the story, The mountain cycles and full truth of the dark history being first and foremost. It also benefited by being a much longer series with a larger budget, Tomino was able to take his time getting where he wanted to go, a luxury the staff of this series doesn't have.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:25
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Sharkopath posted:Even in Turn A theres tons of concepts hidden from the viewer until deeper on in the story, The mountain cycles and full truth of the dark history being first and foremost. Sharkopath posted:It also benefited by being a much longer series with a larger budget, Tomino was able to take his time getting where he wanted to go, a luxury the staff of this series doesn't have. That seems like a reason for G-Reco to tell more, not less.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:28
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Ethiser posted:Did you see the end of Dunbine? Yes I did. Like I said, I look forward to being pleasantly surprised but if the G-Self is actually secretly the Turn-A like I'm hoping...
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Nov 4, 2014 22:29
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WickedHate posted:That seems like a reason for G-Reco to tell more, not less. It gives you tons of information, almost too much, just not what you think you need to know.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:31
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WickedHate posted:Well yeah, a lot of shows reveals secrets in later episodes. That's not really the same thing as deliberately hiding information and making the setting intentionally confusing and convoluted. It's not confusing and convoluted though really, I mean I was able to put together a state of the world back during episode 2 or 3 that's still holding entirely true, although somebody in this thread has written a better one since then. I feel that G-Reco is telling plenty enough, and unrequired exposition would take the place of things I also like, the character animation and interaction mainly.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:33
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WickedHate posted:Well yeah, a lot of shows reveals secrets in later episodes. That's not really the same thing as deliberately hiding information and making the setting intentionally confusing and convoluted. It's not so much hiding information as revealing stuff naturally through conversation and action, rather than through hamfisted exposition, it feels like. So far it's seems to have been easy enough to follow as long as you pay attention to the conversations, and there's been plenty of heavy foreshadowing.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:34
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That being said some of the character motivations and stuff were a bit weird during the first few episodes, but those seem to have all straightened out.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:37
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Eiba posted:Okay, so the state of the world is pretty clear now. Cool! Really should just put every post Eiba makes into the OP, they are the best poster in this thread by far.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:38
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My feeling is that the worldsetting makes sense but the characterization frequently is iffy. Not because the characters are mischaracterized but because everyone is about three shades to chill for any given situation. It feels really weird how relaxed everyone is even when seriously bad poo poo is going on. The later episodes I think have hit people better because people are responding to things instead of feeling super-relaxed about everything. It isn't that it makse the worldsetting easier to understand but it makes it easier to understand how the characters feel about that worldsetting.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:45
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ImpAtom posted:My feeling is that the worldsetting makes sense but the characterization frequently is iffy. I agree with that part, but also think with the hindsight of how the plot is devloping, the iffyness was more due to the viewpoints/culture/nature of the characters were we following in those early episodes compared to now, where with the Pirates we have a more balanced main cast. Bellri is naive, The Capital Guard are an unprofessional reserve that are also more concerned with pomp and aesthetic than getting actual work done, the capital populace in general seems to have a very blase attitude about things, if the short glimpse we got of the undernut recently can be taken as standard. Aida's wierd moment of duplicitousness regarding Bellri makes more sense to me now that I know she's willfully playing a role instead of being herself, The Army is still full of the guard goofballs but now mysterious new characters such as Mask who seem to be filled up with a holy righteousness and belief in his own cause. The pirates are in comparison a much more goal oriented and serious lot, but it is nice to have a goofball character who can do both, in Klim Nick.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:56
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Sharkopath posted:
Someone in Undernut cared enough to throw a rock at the Capital Army guys as they zoomed by on Segways, though I'm not sure if that argued for or against Capital residents being chill.
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Nov 4, 2014 23:13
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Sounds like they're still not taking the whole war thing seriously to me. "Army? *pfft* They're just the Guards with fancy uniforms." Also, that was a spoon. Edit: Well, I thought it was. Maybe not. John Carstairs fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 23:30
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Srice posted:It's not so much that people are saying "it's a Tomino show" to dispel criticism, as much as to explain that Tomino's non-Gundam shows are stylistically fairly different from his Gundam stuff. Which is why a Gundam fan might not enjoy the show. I think a better example would be the prequel star wars films. People who liked the first three Star Wars films might actually like the prequels, but chances are they probably won't because the people in the prequel films don't act like actual people. That seems to be the big complaint about G-Reco as well, most of us like the stuff that is 'gundamy' such as Mobile Suit combat and some of the plot beats. On the other hand most, if not all of the complaints tend to be about the fact that the characters in the show largely don't act like humans, but like some weird creatures trying to ape human interactions.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:26
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The characters in the Star Wars prequels act like people, just not particularly well spoken or competent people.
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