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Never Been Banned, if you get arrested, just remember if bail is 20 dollars or less and you post pics/vids of the dig and find the cask you're going to come out ahead.
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Nov 6, 2014 23:18
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I am willing to accept that theory for the Boston location IF you can explain the falcon
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Nov 6, 2014 23:37
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I'm pretty goddamn excited something big seems on the brink of happening.
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Nov 6, 2014 23:38
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Deadite posted:I am willing to accept that theory for the Boston location IF I got nothing on that except the fact that the perch of the falcon almost perfectly aligns with the dock by the hatch shell when you like the hatch shell up on the map with the depiction of it in the painting. NBB and I may differ but I don't believe every single thing is a direct clue or that all of them are solvable/visible anymore. The start of the puzzle is the Storrow Compass. It leads you to the hatch shell and over the Longfellow to the Rowland Institute.
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Nov 6, 2014 23:43
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NBB, would it be possible to post just a few of the general clues that you've solved? I know I would find that quite exciting
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Nov 6, 2014 23:56
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NBB and Xie, dig that poo poo up! I've read every single page of this thread over the past however long, and I'd love to see at least one more of these get found. I think where most people go wrong is by looking at Google Maps and streetview too much. They think all the clues are based on map outlines, when the far more important things to recognize will be clear as day when you are starting from the right point. An outline of an island, state, or whatever is definitely the starting point.
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Nov 7, 2014 00:15
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xie posted:I believe the most current "feeling" is that it was not by the bench, and likely wasn't buried on Roanoke proper. I've been in touch with someone who has been there and detailed their trip for me at great length. I believe them to be rational and sane, and trust their analysis. This person has traveled to Chicago and Cleveland and re-created both existing solves, so they understand the method, the feelings, and the image matches. This is relevant to my interests. Are details posted on those other forums?
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Nov 7, 2014 03:20
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Nocheez posted:I think where most people go wrong is by looking at Google Maps and streetview too much. They think all the clues are based on map outlines, when the far more important things to recognize will be clear as day when you are starting from the right point. An outline of an island, state, or whatever is definitely the starting point. My theory for the starting point is that it is a large Polaroid seen in the painting, but not in the standard way. It's a large, all encompassing image that's hidden in the painting. No outlines of states or anything as such. My theory for New York is that the starting point is on Liberty Island, and the Polaroid I mention is the Statue of Liberty's torch framed over the Narrows in the background. The gap in the window behind the bird is significant, but only because the bird's wings are actually the flames of the torch. The window base is in the shape of the Narrows bridge. The Statue of Liberty's long arm extends over the Slender Path. joshtothemaxx posted:This is relevant to my interests. Are details posted on those other forums? I think you need to read the full image and verse thread on Q4T, it's helpful to see what has been discussed and brought up over the years. A fresh approach is great, don't just hop on their parade, but there is some good info. Places with confirmed Polaroid pictures are important. I'm not interested in places without them. xie fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 05:09
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xie posted:
Not literally everything, but for something as conspicuous as a glowing falcon with his head all cocked to the side like he's focused on something, you're going to find some explanation. It might seem harebrained at first, as the puzzles are obviously not perfect, but that thing is in some way going to correspond to the reality of the setting you're working with. Or, as you say, at least it did in 1981 or whatever. The space in the image I've worked with has been used with surprising efficiency, and there isn't any BS in there that I can find no explanation for. Give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to something as prominent as image 12's bird. I have some vague ideas about what that bird's up to in there, but who knows if they're right. Given what I've gone through with my site, I really don't think the finest details of these puzzles can be reliably or accurately worked out via street view, or even from random pictures snapped by the public. There are some matches that are really apparent, and sometimes you may get lucky, but in my case I had to work deliberately, and take tons of photographs in a manner directed by my suspicions, and then sit back and sift through them until I discovered the ones that drew out the same attributes of the same objects the creators happened to be focused on when they made the puzzle. The whole thing looks ridiculously obvious to me in retrospect, but it really isn't. Priess and his cadre really underestimated this, imo. It was a long process for me, and I had to go back a bunch of times before I basically just happened to end up with a complete enough set of pictures that I was eventually able to work out completely what they were up to. None of this really would have been a problem if the situation was still as it was when the Chicago kids were digging up Grant Park. They came up with a "close is good enough" answer, and that's really the way this hunt was meant to work. Since 2005 its been without its much-needed referee. There's a form page right in the book where you can fill in your answer and send it off to Priess, and he'll judge if you're worthy, send you a polaroid maybe, whatever. There are clearly limits to the level of specificity you can imbue in one of these poem/painting pairs, and when something is buried 3 feet down in hallowed public soil, you need to be proper dead-on breaking ground to get the thing without resorting to the type of monster hole that was required in Chicago, and just isn't practical in 2014. We are really really lucky, because the site I've worked with has not changed one loving bit in the time elapsed. Also, thoroughly solved the puzzle yields a spot that can be worked with. You couldn't really expect more specificity from this format. Still, the experience of digging one of these things up is much more intense than you picture from the armchair. Serious volumes of dirt have to move or it's a waste of time--even for the best of theories. A deviance of one or so foot is a big deal. The place chosen in this case is really rather perfect for something like this I guess, and it makes me wonder if he wasn't careful to pick places that wouldn't change much over time. Some of the evidence that's been uncovered to date seems contrary to that though, so I'm really not sure.
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Nov 7, 2014 05:17
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I agree with that. I have often said that they brute forced the last two, and happened to solve two of the easier ones at that. But you really only need a few Polaroids to get on the right trail. There's no sense in overthinking that part, which I think many people do. I don't think all sites are undisturbed. Some cities have undergone massive changes. And weather may wipe away landmarks like in Sandy or Katrina. Something I try and avoid is canonizing Preiss. He went to one city a month with a shovel and did these. I think they're clever, but he wasn't an expert on each city or infallible. How could he know they'd move the entire Zoo in Houston? xie fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 05:25
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Good stuff, xie. I spent some time looking at the new York one myself. I think the cask might be in the park in Jersey. I doubt it was possible to dig at liberty island even in the 80s
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Nov 7, 2014 05:27
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What is the Polaroid business about, forgive me, it's been awhile since I've read through the thread. Did the author send people polaroids as clues?
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Nov 7, 2014 05:29
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Nocheez posted:Good stuff, xie. I spent some time looking at the new York one myself. I think the cask might be in the park in Jersey. I doubt it was possible to dig at liberty island even in the 80s Ha, that was my solve for a long time. Liberty State Park. I have a really decent solve for it, but remain skeptical it isn't on Governors Island. I had it behind the train yard on Liberty. PM me, we should compare notes.
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Nov 7, 2014 05:30
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OctoberBlues posted:What is the Polaroid business about, forgive me, it's been awhile since I've read through the thread. Did the author send people polaroids as clues? Preiss visited each city and snapped Polaroids along the way. He then mailed them to the illustrator to incorporate in the paintings. Many of them are directly hidden in the paintings, and others are more subtly expressed. Obvious ones: water tower in Chicago, pillars in Cleveland, legeater in Montreal.
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Nov 7, 2014 05:31
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just stopping by to mention that this thread is loving hilarious nothing is still continuing to happen but it is all painstakingly documented
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Nov 7, 2014 05:37
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Where can one view said Polaroids? And how did they surface? Sorry, at work on my phone.
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Nov 7, 2014 06:05
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xie posted:Preiss visited each city and snapped Polaroids along the way. He then mailed them to the illustrator to incorporate in the paintings. Many of them are directly hidden in the paintings, and others are more subtly expressed. Obvious ones: water tower in Chicago, pillars in Cleveland, legeater in Montreal. So... What you're saying is that some of the illustrations contain real life landmarks? I don't get how this is isn't obvious. Not hating, I just think your explanation of what you are using Polaroid to refer to isn't clear.
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Nov 7, 2014 06:12
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OctoberBlues posted:What is the Polaroid business about, forgive me, it's been awhile since I've read through the thread. Did the author send people polaroids as clues? I'm referring to what happened in Chicago in 1984 with the first solve. A group of kids discovered the intended solution to the puzzle there but were still unable to locate the buried cask, even after digging prolifically very near it. They contacted the author, Byron Priess, who proceeded to email [snail mail of course] them the "answer key" polaroid he had snapped of the spot. After digging another substantial pit the people found the cask peeking out from the wall of their hole. The moral of the story is that these puzzles are clever, but you can ostensibly find the answer without finding an actionable place to dig. I mean you can resort to placing a crater at the epicenter of your suspicions, but in modern times we need to try to be even more precise than the puzzles expected us to be. It just adds to the difficulty. Can be done though, I think. At least for some of these. Never Been Banned fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 06:31
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To nitpick, Chicago was before email, and he was perplexed that they couldn't find it (this is why I say "brute forced"). They didn't come close to solving the puzzle, but they were local and hit a lot of Polaroids/landmarks & stumbled on it. I also maintain it was easier than the others, and that some may be easier overall. One of the Chicago solvers has posted on Q4T and it's pretty obvious he doesn't know how to solve them.
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Nov 7, 2014 06:44
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xie posted:To nitpick, Chicago was before email, and he was perplexed that they couldn't find it (this is why I say "brute forced"). They didn't come close to solving the puzzle, but they were local and hit a lot of Polaroids/landmarks & stumbled on it. I also maintain it was easier than the others, and that some may be easier overall. Yeah. Before email. They called Ye Olde Byron Priess Publishing and harassed the secretary until she put him on the phone. He didn't get why they couldn't find it, but they had "brute forced" or stumbled their way onto the "fence and fixture / central too" clue. It didn't prove to be precise enough for a clean recovery. The details as to whether they weren't quite competent enough or the clues were to vague aren't clear. Xie is right though. Some of these are easier than others, it's very obvious. The Cleveland one is very very solvable--especially in the internet age, and with permission to dig with abandon for 4 hours it's absolutely no wonder they found that one. Brute force indeed. There's very little that's impressive about how that recovery played out. Someone on Q4T Googles a line from the poem, gets a hit for the wall in Cleveland's Greek cultural gardens, and two dudes go to town on it. I mean hat's off to them I guess but that's clearly not going to happen again.
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Nov 7, 2014 07:06
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Never Been Banned posted:Yeah. Before email. They called Ye Olde Byron Priess Publishing and harassed the secretary until she put him on the phone. He didn't get why they couldn't find it, but they had "brute forced" or stumbled their way onto the "fence and fixture / central too" clue. It didn't prove to be precise enough for a clean recovery. The details as to whether they weren't quite competent enough or the clues were to vague aren't clear. just send me the loving coordinates and i'll dig it up jesus christ
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Nov 7, 2014 07:22
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AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2014 07:41
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It's under the bridge
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Nov 7, 2014 07:50
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Do Not Resuscitate posted:Nah, see, this has to play out in the Kabuki Dance manner that these things always play out here on SA. This is why I suggested the mod challenge. Which he immediately asked not to have happen. I think your theory is correct.
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Nov 7, 2014 08:42
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Waltzing Along posted:This is why I suggested the mod challenge. Which he immediately asked not to have happen. I think your theory is correct. Patience dogg. There are things in this world that don't move at the pace of an entertaining thread.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:10
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xie posted:Ha, that was my solve for a long time. Liberty State Park. I have a really decent solve for it, but remain skeptical it isn't on Governors Island. I was just another shlub using Google Maps and Streetview to scan the area. While I've visited Liberty Island, it's been 5 years or so and I don't remember much about it, nor did I take many pictures. I did virtually wander around Liberty State Park virtually, and I'm sure my posts are somewhere on this thread about what I did see. I do not have a dig spot located, but if you want to send me what you have I'd be happy to take a look and see what sticks. I'm in North Carolina, within driving distance of the Charleston and Roanoke Island casks (4 or 5 hours, respectively) but the one in New York/New Jersey was the one I feel is most obtainable.
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Nov 7, 2014 14:18
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gently caress it, right? Why take it to PM. If it's where I thought it was, and I have what I think is a pretty solid start location, path with confirmed images along the way, and solve for the verse... it's been a parking lot for a long time. The site is closed because of Sandy, and I think there's some value in going there, but if it was in Liberty State I think Preiss made a big mistake - the park was very new (opened for the bicentennial) and continues to undergo development to this day. So much of the site has physically changed (there's a gigantic boardwalk now, entire monuments, etc.) and in the 80s or early 90s they turned the area behind the railroad terminal into a parking lot. I believe it was buried near the train yard with a fairly high degree of certainty. You take the ferry to/from Liberty Island to find the long arm of the statue of liberty. You take the ferry from Liberty Island to Liberty State Park which only runs in the summer (as stated in the verse), and get off at the Central Railroad of NJ terminal, which is the key to this puzzle. This is the site you're meant to explore. On the rear of the Ellis Island Ferry Terminal (depicted from above in the bottom left most window, the red ferry slip), and as a likely outline (of the entire building seen from the rear, or the NJ side, NOT the NY side) in the window next to it, and with the beak of the bird being visible on Gargoyles on the terminal. The ferry drops you off at the tip of Liberty State Park near the old train yard. Which looks like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Railroad_of_New_Jersey_Terminal A few things should immediately jump out at you. One, the central clock is depicted in the bottom right "window" of Painting #12. Two, the shape of the windows matches the shape of the painting in #12 (which is unique), and the placement of the windows is also very close to windows found around the building. The sign that still speaks of Indies Natives is because the terminal (and the entire area) used to be known as Communipaw Terminal, or Communipaw. The original native name for the area. The Natives still speak of He of Hard Word in 3 vols - this is the trickiest solve in this verse, and it's clever. It can be solved fairly simply: Washington Irving spent extensive time in the area and wrote 3 short stories about Communipaw. The "of Hard word" is an unneccessary literary reference (there are little winks and nods from Preiss throughout like this, but they aren't needed to find the casque) to Irving's Sleepy Hollow, which contains a line mentioned here: http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/162369-quot-hard-quot-word Irving uses "hard" to mean "very near" or "close to" and I think that's a double/triple meaning clue for the very astute literary nerds (which Preiss absolutely was). The rest is somewhat nebulous as the site has changed a lot. I think it was behind the train terminal, which is shaped like the woman's dress. The reason I believe it's behind the train yard is because when you look at the dress as the train yard and then look at the location of the droplets of water, they line up exactly with the location of 3 structures on the property. The 4th droplet in the painting is the gem. When you go behind the train yard you hit the final line in the verse: "Or gaze north Toward the Isle of B" From behind the train yard you face due south and look toward Liberty Island a/k/a Bedloe's Island (Isle of B) But why don't you look north? Because dead south from behind the train yard is North Cove. So you look right at NORTH, but you're actually looking at the Isle of B. Of course, gently caress everything, right? We never know if we have the right verse in the first place, or that it's really NY  Either way the whole area's been wrecked, and still isn't open from Sandy damage.
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Nov 7, 2014 14:50
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xie posted:gently caress it, right? Why take it to PM. If it's where I thought it was, and I have what I think is a pretty solid start location, path with confirmed images along the way, and solve for the verse... it's been a parking lot for a long time. Thanks for posting the interesting theory. Why would preiss call liberty island island of B rather than island of L? It's not like it's a key clue to the puzzle, why intentionally obfuscate things? How would you know where specifically in the parking lot/train yard to dig? I was following along in agreement until you got to the Irving stuff, then I couldn't keep up with the mental gymnastics. Still, keep in mind this is just my opinion and i've been wrong befoe, thanks for putting this out there.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:10
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Never Been Banned posted:Patience dogg. There are things in this world that don't move at the pace of an entertaining thread. I want to believe.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:12
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Drunk Nerds posted:Thanks for posting the interesting theory. Liberty Island's original name is Bedloe's Island, it's barely an obfuscation. Bedloe's has been a common theory for "Isle of B" as well. I initially thought Blackfan Island, and maybe so, it's also in Liberty State park, but I think the gazing NORTH (south) part is too cute to be a coincidence. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bedloe's+island&spell=1 The method for finding the exact spot to dig cannot be done using Gmaps, Aerial Photography, etc. I don't purport to know exactly where you should have stuck a shovel in the ground. I think this one, if I'm right, would be very difficult to recover today, even if it wasn't in the parking lot. My guess is that almost all of the original ground has been dug up, and almost all of the original signage has been destroyed. Any trees, rocks, etc. used as markers were likely lost in Sandy. Aerial stills from 1980 or so show that the area behind the train yard used to be mostly abandoned grounds. There was nothing back there for quite a ways. xie fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 15:13
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Xie I don't understand your Boston location. You think the cask was buried in a parking lot? I don't see a park at that address
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Nov 7, 2014 15:22
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Deadite posted:Xie I don't understand your Boston location. You think the cask was buried in a parking lot? I don't see a park at that address The Rowland Institute at Harvard and its property used to look like this: http://i.imgur.com/mIzHQzj.png The resolution sucks, but you can see near the gridline in the bottom center (near the words "use only") two streets coming off the Longfellow Br that converge to a point like >---, that's the beginning of the crack to the right of the portal behind the gypsy. The road is a straight, and then the tree line and building of the research center is the rest of the crack's shape. When you are standing near there (as close as you can, or on the Esplanade by the water in front of it, where I still hope it could be buried) the Gypsy's hair (near the crack and the fairy) strongly resembles the skyline view from right there, including the specific shapes of the Hancock tower and 111 Huntington Ave (this building IMO is the most apparent shape, and can be seen without standing there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111_Huntington_Avenue) It's not a parking lot, it's a building/condos now. The green space visible in the aerial is all gone. The Rowland Institute is now a huge research complex with condos around it. There's no parking
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Nov 7, 2014 15:33
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I don't know, the casks that have been found were buried in parks, and this is pretty far from being a park. If you go to the below website they have the same photo you are using, but you can zoom in and out. It is the 1978 view. http://gis.cambridgema.gov/map/Viewer.aspx
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Nov 7, 2014 15:42
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has anything been found
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Nov 7, 2014 15:49
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Deadite posted:I don't know, the casks that have been found were buried in parks, and this is pretty far from being a park. I wouldn't put a ton of stock in the others being buried in public parks. It's only two, and there is absolutely nothing in the rules that says they must be in a park. This was a large open green space at the time. All it says is no graveyards or places that are unsafe. There is also a park nearby, but I can't confirm if it was there at the time (it's further down the road, now between two Condos), and there is public land across the street close to the water. It's not The Esplanade, but there is the Cambridge side of the Charles River, which has benches and about a 10-15 foot wide strip of grass that run along the river. The benches that line the Esplanade are depicted in the painting as well. It is another Polaroid. Whether they're on the Boston or Cambridge side (in reality they're both, there are ~244 of the benches, but they are found ONLY on the Esplanade) is academic really. Polaroids aren't wrong, there are no Polaroids in the paintings that aren't very very key to finding the path. It's the lining up of everything from start to finish. Mind you, I'm not dropping a solution on you and trying to get you to squint and see it. I have the start location for this puzzle as well. There are Polaroid matches from the start location all the way to the end location, and the verse fits very well along the way.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:52
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xie posted:The Rowland Institute at Harvard and its property used to look like this: http://i.imgur.com/mIzHQzj.png 111 Huntington Ave was built in the 2000's. I was working down the street from it when it was being built.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:57
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BigFactory posted:111 Huntington Ave was built in the 2000's. I was working down the street from it when it was being built. See that's interesting, and easily findable I'll try to take some photos from the spot on a clear day to compare the rest of the skyline to her hair. As i said, it's more than just "oh a shape!" but also very possibly wrong as well. It doesn't matter too much to me, that's not the main clincher or anything, it was just something I noticed when I was standing there.
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Nov 7, 2014 16:02
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xie posted:See that's interesting, and easily findable I can't remember what building was demo'd to make way for it. I'm sure you can find photos of the Hancock from that era though that might show the skyline.
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Nov 7, 2014 16:04
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xie posted:Liberty Island's original name is Bedloe's Island, it's barely an obfuscation. Come on, now, the Island was renamed in 1956. I wouldn't bury a treasure in Thailand, then leave a clue "it's in the country that starts with the letter 'S'" (for Siam).
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Nov 7, 2014 16:08
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 12:26 |
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Yeah, I basically got it as far as you see right here and then my job (as it does from time to time) blew up, since I work in Higher Ed. I haven't had any time to visit during the day since Sept. There's a big "stand on the shoulders of giants" component to this - I didn't deduce or find most of the Polaroids that exist between the Storrow Compass and here. There is a huge one that is almost unmistakable at the start location, as well as another very small one that is almost photorealistic in detail. I wish I had a photo from standing at the compass, but my phone camera was broken at the time. If you stand at the Storrow Compass and look at the Prudential, it looks exactly like the shape (rotated upside down, just rotate the book you're holding) of the portal (this is the compass in front of you) and the pillars behind the woman. The pillars are the Pru, including the "box" effect the facade of the Pru gives you (anyone from here will understand what I mean) being the 3 "boxes" on the front of her robe. (the ones with the swirly poo poo on them, which I have nothing on). It's fairly obvious when you're standing there, and there's another, smaller image that is on the actual compass, and is unmistakable as a small but photo-realistic polaroid. One of the important things about Boston is the depiction of the hatch shell in the painting from above. There are other Polaroid matches that can be found as you walk along the path from the Compass to the Hatch Shell to the Longfellow to the Rowland Institute/Esplanade. The hatch shell tells you it has to be more-or-less near the real hatch shell, and the numerous Polaroids that can be found in the area confirm it. The rest takes some time to tease out, I don't think there's any harm in admitting that. Possibly I have it backward, and you end where I think you start. I can't rule that out, but it's a very difficult spot to dig. Drunk Nerds posted:Come on, now, the Island was renamed in 1956. I wouldn't bury a treasure in Thailand, then leave a clue "it's in the country that starts with the letter 'S'" (for Siam). I'm sorry, I just strongly disagree with this. This is a riddle. Why not just say "Where Mozart and Beethoven are cast in stone" or do any of this at all? Go search Q4T for "Bedloe" - it has been a common theory even without the rest. There may even be/have been signage referring to it, and if not, you started on Liberty Island. This is barely an obfuscation, the name had been changed <25 years prior. I assure you as a native NYer this is not particularly obscure. Obviously it's not something you can prove on the internet, and something important to remember is that neither solved puzzle has 100% of the verse solved correctly. To this day the Chicago finders argue with Preiss' interpretation of one of the clues, and many just weren't properly solved, or were vaguely solved in both Cleveland and Chicago. In both instances they found the correct park, in neither do they have a fully linear solve. xie fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 16:10
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