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Pb and Jellyfish posted:So I just got a box of plastic soldier company 15mm M4A2 Shermans, my first historical miniatures (previously only done board game minis from Descent and Battles of Westeros) and I think I have a million questions, firstly about putting these together right. I am planning on making them 75mms, though I'm going to put the 76mm turrets together as well for versatility. I plan to use them for mid or late war Canadians (Italy or Normandy and beyond). I haven't put that set together myself, but I think 1 & 2 are accessories for the turret. 3 - no reason you couldn't put the tracks where you want, adds character. .50 cals were issued here and there. Check to be sure they are available for Canadians. Americans have to buy them extra. Probably best to glue them on if there is a chance of taking them. I forget if Canadians are in the LW Italian book, but that is the only place I know where any Commonwealth can take a 76mm Sherman. If you are super  you can't use the A2 hull, though.
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Nov 1, 2014 01:01
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YF19pilot posted:I haven't put that set together myself, but I think 1 & 2 are accessories for the turret. Thanks. I can't seem to find any pics of models with those pieces attached, so I'll just leave them off for now as they don't seem standard anyway. Research seems to show that historically most Canadian tanks didn't have the 50 cal, for a variety of reasons, but I can't seem to find out their status in Flames of War. The nice thing about this model is that the gun fits in quite well without glue, so I can leave it off or put it on at will. And I'm also not too spergy about hulls and such, hopefully anyone I play with won't care either. Just ordered a set of late war UK infantry from PSC as well. I think it'll be a while before I'm game ready, and I don't even have any books yet, but I don't want to play without having nicely painted models first.
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Nov 2, 2014 00:00
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YF19pilot posted:If you are super Huh. I had to go look that up, because I figured they'd get the same Lend-Lease tanks the rest of the Commonwealth got, but apparently they didn't get ANY lend-Lease tanks. Instead, they got permission to build their own, through one of the American companies' Canadian subsidiaries. So they built M4A1s called the Grizzly I. But there is a note in Wikipedia that says, "In European combat the Canadian Army used American-built Shermans supplied by the UK. These were armed with 75 mm, 105 mm and 17-pounder guns." So I could see justification for an A2.
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Nov 2, 2014 00:06
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Colonial Air Force posted:Huh. http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehicles/tanks/shermantank.htm Yeah, this write-up gave me most of my information, it seems the A2 was pretty common, though it doesn't mention any 76mm Canadian shermans, other than the Firefly (76.2mm) which is very distinct and separate from the 76mm the Americans used. This is all cool though, as these shermans may be someday called upon to be part of an American force, and my paint job is pretty basic and generic.
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Nov 2, 2014 00:47
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The American 76 is also 76.2 mm. 76.2 (3 inches) is a very common caliber for artillery.
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Nov 2, 2014 01:17
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The Vickers HV 75mm, which was eventually never used, the 77mm HV main gun on the Comet, and the 3" gun M7 used on the Wolverine, were also 76.2mm. They all got different names to ensure they all got the right ammunition, because each one fired a different shell.
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Nov 2, 2014 05:34
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Colonial Air Force posted:Huh. I meant more in the context of the Americans didn't build a 76mm A2. I believe only the A1 and A3 received a 76mm variant. Also, I think the Grizzly is "officially" referred to by the US Army as the A5 or A6. But, I didn't think they made it to combat, like the Ram. And yeah, both 76mm and Firefly are similar calibers 76.2, I believe armament testing was done in which they swapped the shells of each and underloaded the charge to see how it would perform. The American 3" is also a 76.2, the 76mm is actually a cut downed variant of that gun.
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Nov 2, 2014 08:12
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NTRabbit posted:The Vickers HV 75mm, which was eventually never used, the 77mm HV main gun on the Comet, and the 3" gun M7 used on the Wolverine, were also 76.2mm. They all got different names to ensure they all got the right ammunition, because each one fired a different shell. The shell isn't as important as the charge. The 3" and 76mm used the same shell, but different charges.
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Nov 2, 2014 08:14
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YF19pilot posted:I meant more in the context of the Americans didn't build a 76mm A2. I believe only the A1 and A3 received a 76mm variant. Also, I think the Grizzly is "officially" referred to by the US Army as the A5 or A6. But, I didn't think they made it to combat, like the Ram. There were 76mm armed A2s, but IIRC they were mainly used by the Soviets via Lend-Lease.
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Nov 2, 2014 08:23
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YF19pilot posted:The shell isn't as important as the charge. The 3" and 76mm used the same shell, but different charges. But the 17pdr, 75mm HV and 77mm HV all used different shells, and since the British were sharing a supply train the boxes needed to be marked with something other than "76.2mm"
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Nov 2, 2014 08:26
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NTRabbit posted:But the 17pdr, 75mm HV and 77mm HV all used different shells, and since the British were sharing a supply train the boxes needed to be marked with something other than "76.2mm" No, I understand. Just notioning about the fact they could be interchanged, in theory. Forgot about the Soviets using A2s.
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Nov 2, 2014 08:38
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As to Canadian Shermans in Flames of War: Most Canadian Armored lists follow roughly the same force organization as their British counterparts, with 2-3 Sherman II, IIIs, or Vs and 1-2 Sherman VCs per platoon. Canadian lists are present in Market Garden, Overlord, and Road to Rome, so your decision as to what to run them as will probably hinge on personal preference with regard to support options. As to the optional extras, all Canadian Shermans can take .50 cals for +5 points per tank, so whether or not you decide to add them is up to you. With that being said, I think your best option is probably to get a box of M4A4s from PSC as well, so you can mix them together and run with some Fireflies. 10 tanks will get you two full platoons and your HQ, and that'll give you more than enough 17 pounders to take on the vast majority of armor you come across. If you're interested in putting together lists, this site allows you to play around with all of the different lists available, and can give you a sense of what kind of flexibility you'll have in creating lists with the units you have.
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Nov 2, 2014 08:47
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Acebuckeye13 posted:As to Canadian Shermans in Flames of War: Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. And I do think I'll get some A4s eventually, probably after I get my infantry painted. I just finished painting my first sherman last night, so it doesn't seem like it'll take too long to get these tanks together. I imagine the infantry will take longer, especially with basing (which I haven't done before, any minis I did for boardgames I just painted the bases black).
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Nov 2, 2014 12:42
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Pb and Jellyfish posted:Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. And I do think I'll get some A4s eventually, probably after I get my infantry painted. I just finished painting my first sherman last night, so it doesn't seem like it'll take too long to get these tanks together. I imagine the infantry will take longer, especially with basing (which I haven't done before, any minis I did for boardgames I just painted the bases black). In that case, your best bet is to run your list out of Road to Rome for the time being, since all of the other Canadian lists require at least 1 Firefly VC per platoon. There are a lot of neat options for Canadians in Road to Rome, though, so if anything that's a plus!
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Nov 2, 2014 16:49
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I just bought and downloaded this for my iPad: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ww2-wargaming-soundboard/id872463030?mt=8 It's basically different sound effects from WW2 games and movies which you control by pressing buttons. There's an underlying battle din that plays continually. Some of the sounds are pretty cheesy, and the voices are horrible, but it's kind of fun and dumb at the same time. Apart from varying levels of quality, the only other problem is when you change what sounds you want to play, the button makes a loud clicking noise, but other than that, it's a neat little thing to make your games a little more fun/stupid.
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Nov 3, 2014 12:36
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http://ambient-mixer.com/ is pretty good for that too - you can mix in different effects or pick one of the predefined ones. I'm going to give it a shot on my next narrative game.
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Nov 3, 2014 12:53
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Southern Heel posted:http://ambient-mixer.com/ is pretty good for that too - you can mix in different effects or pick one of the predefined ones. I'm going to give it a shot on my next narrative game. That's definitely cooler for an underlying ambient sound, and it's much better made, but the app is laid out for tabletop use with a button section for each players, so you can underline that airstrike with sound effects at the appropriate time.
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Nov 3, 2014 13:03
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OH BOY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHERMANS!!!!!!! Can't help you with what 2# is except for not tail lights. EDIT I lied. Some M4s had dual racks of extra track blocks mounted on their rear which is what 2 is. They go where there'd be tail lights, but not at all lights. Re: Track links Put them wherever you want. Crews pretty much stuck them either: a. Where ever they fit best b. in places that they wanted marginally more protection. To that end, popular locations were the front slope of the hull, the hull or turret sides, and the rear deck. as a rule you keep the top of the turret clear because it might get in the way of hatches and somesuch. Re: 76 MM Short answer: If you're making 76 MM turrets for common wealth they should go on an M4A1 hull. Nearly all Commonwealth Shermans were M4A2, or M4A4 75 MM equipped tanks. Some M4A1 76 MMs were supplied however because the US was not producing more M4A4s at all, and less M4A2s by the end of the war, and the only tanks it had to offer the Brits for replacements were the M4A1s with 76 MM. Shermans have four commonly used hull/engine combinations: M4: Radial engine Welded Hull. Used by the Brits in early incarnations as the Sherman I and the US Army. Distinctive features are the front hull has two sort of boxy protrusions for the driver's and assistant driver's positions. Rear deck has distinctive bulge to accommodate the really tall engine behind the turret. All turrets have single large hatch for commander These came in 75 MM only M4A1: Radial engine, cast hull. Used almost exclusively by Americans. The front hull looks smooth (the whole hull even) and well rounded. Same hump for engine as the M4. Overwhelming majority were armed with 75 MM guns and had a single hatch, but a not small number in the late war did carry the 76 MM gun without the muzzle break. These are the early model "late" turrets that had the commander's hatch with 360 vision blocks (windows basically) and the large loader's hatch with a .50 cal mount (same style as the older commander's hatch). These are also confusingly the only Commonwealth 76 MM equipped tanks. The story behind those is that the US stopped making the Shermans that the Brits preferred, and the British Army was running low on tanks, so it took on some number of Sherman M4A1 76 MMs, which became known as Sherman II A. The Sherman IIA was unpopular as the US 76 MM wasn't as good as the 75 MM against troop and building targets, but a was also inferior to the 17 pounder on the firefly by a wide margin against tanks. I think most of them went to the Poles or Canadians M4A2: diesel engine, welded hull. Same general appearance as M4 except for instead of the "hump" it has some grills on the rear deck of the hull. While M4A2 76 MM equipped tanks existed, they all went to the USSR. Known as Sherman III in the UK. M4A3: Ford gas engine with welded hull. Used exclusively by the US, and the French through lend-lease. Ohgodsomanyversions, some looking a little more like M4A2s, others being radically different. Short subtype breakdown: M4A3 Early: Looks like an M4A2, commonly had large applique armor planes welded on the right turret and on the hull to protect ammunition storage locations. M4A3 Late: The front hull is now a uniform slope. No bulges for driver/assistant driver. Turret has two hatches, one for commander with vision blocks, one small sort of pill shaped one for the loader. MG usually located to the rear of the turret on a post. M4A3 76 MM: Same as above only with different gun and mantle M4A3E2: "Jumbo" uparmored Sherman. Looks fat, unseen outside of US forces M4A3E8: Definitive late war to Korean war Sherman model. distinctive wide tracks and 76 MM gun with muzzlebreak. M4A4: Welded hull, "multibank" engine. Looks similar to M4A2 only actually a bit longer (you really need them parked side by side to notice). Known as Sherman V. Grizzly I: Canadian build M4 more or less. Was intended to supplement US production, but in light of just how many Sherman tanks the US was cranking out, ultimately abandoned and none saw active service in world war two. Firefly: British conversion to mount the quite large 17 pound AT gun. M4A2 and M4A4 Shermans were used as the base vehicle. Easiest way to identify them is huge-long barrel with muzzle break, two hatches, one traditional large commander's hatch, and one small square one for the loader, and a large block on the back of the turret as a counterweight. saurkrautwerfer fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 18:48
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The tracks on the engine deck were usually split up, IIRC. The ones in the kit are already linked together, those belong on the front of the hull or on the side of the turret. Additionally, you can scratch build all sorts of junk and pile it around your tank, Shermans are cool like that.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:05
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Sandbags! As long as you're not in Patton's Third Army.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:09
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Thanks for all the info folks. Two of the shermans are now finished, and two others are assembled. I'm really surprised by how quickly I'm getting these things painted, but I guess when it's mostly one colour that makes it easier. My PSC late war British infantry is in the mail, which I'll be using as my Canadians. Should be fun to paint, but I'm having trouble finding the right colour for their uniforms with model master (the best paints my FLGS sells). Luckily the shermans came with two commander figures per tank (one commonwealth and one US), so I'm experimenting colours with them as I'll only use a couple of them overall.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:33
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One of the guys over in the scale modelling thread made an app for android that compares paint ranges. See if that helps any.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:38
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Are any of you guys going to Fall-In this weekend? It's relatively local to me so I'm going to hit up the vendors and maybe a painting seminar.
moths fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 03:40
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Holy Christ I can't believe that I am seriously considering building and painting a 28mm Commonwealth platoon for the North Africa Campaign once I'm done slugging through this entire 28mm German Barbarossa infantry company. But those Perry plastics are calling to me, and the large number of various funny hats is hard to resist. That said, what would be the better Commonwealth Platoon to make? Aussies, Kiwis, Sikhs, Wolseley helmeted brits or Black Watch Scots? Or, comedy option, all of them?
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Nov 7, 2014 08:51
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Definitely Maori
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Nov 7, 2014 09:11
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New Zealanders of course; but I might have a slight bias in the matter.
No Pun Intended fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 09:42
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lilljonas posted:Holy Christ I can't believe that I am seriously considering building and painting a 28mm Commonwealth platoon for the North Africa Campaign once I'm done slugging through this entire 28mm German Barbarossa infantry company. But those Perry plastics are calling to me, and the large number of various funny hats is hard to resist. Composite force of Aussies, Sikhs and Brits is historical from Tobruk, I think.
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Nov 7, 2014 10:09
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NTRabbit posted:Composite force of Aussies, Sikhs and Brits is historical from Tobruk, I think. Nice. Tobruk would mean that I have an excuse for doing a separate group of Black Watch as well.
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Nov 7, 2014 10:47
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Out of that list my vote is for Sikhs, but you might also look into Gurkhas. I don't know if there were any in North Africa though.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:26
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Beardless posted:Out of that list my vote is for Sikhs, but you might also look into Gurkhas. I don't know if there were any in North Africa though. There were, but not at Tobruk, they were at El Alamein and elsewhere up to and including the invasion of Sicily and Italy
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Nov 7, 2014 16:59
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It would fit very well as we have an Italian platoon (including bergsaglieri) waiting to be painted, and we already have Germans from our Barbarossa (even if the uniforms and bases will look strange). I just ordered The Longest Siege - Tobruk: The Battle That Saved North Africa by Robert Lyman, I hope it will get me further excited.
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Nov 7, 2014 20:30
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lilljonas posted:Holy Christ I can't believe that I am seriously considering building and painting a 28mm Commonwealth platoon for the North Africa Campaign once I'm done slugging through this entire 28mm German Barbarossa infantry company. But those Perry plastics are calling to me, and the large number of various funny hats is hard to resist.
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Nov 7, 2014 21:02
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If you make a bit more than a platoon, you can include New Zealanders and team them up with British to play the battles where they were attempting to relieve the siege! There were Free Poles involved later too
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Nov 7, 2014 21:10
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Hedningen posted:If you wanna knock a few out, I'll toss you some cash for a few - four with knotwork would be optimal, as I'm making a personal demo box and a Saga-box for a friend's anniversary who has been out of the gaming market for a while due to space concerns. Dude loves vikings, as he and his wife doing viking reenactment, so I figure they'll get a kick outta this. Lemme know what you'd like for 'em and I can shoot you some cash via internet magic. I have those range rulers burned. Did you want some fatigue markers as well? I could also probably bang out some more of those buildings you saw if that would be useful. PM me if you want to talk turkey.
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Nov 7, 2014 21:43
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moths posted:Are any of you guys going to Fall-In this weekend? It's relatively local to me so I'm going to hit up the vendors and maybe a painting seminar. I arrived today and am staying through late on Saturday. Played a short but fun ECW game and hit the flea market. Maybe it's just me, but it does seem like the quality of GMed games has gone down a bit. Possibly it's because I feel like I'm seeing more and more weird wars and aliens and zombie kind of stuff, which just doesn't interest me.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:17
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Well poo poo, the website said flea market wasn't open until tomorrow afternoon.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:21
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NTRabbit posted:If you make a bit more than a platoon, you can include New Zealanders and team them up with British to play the battles where they were attempting to relieve the siege! Checkoslovakians and navy people (brits and aussies!) and everything as well, this sounds like a winner - the madness begins. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 23:31
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Checkoslavkians are the guys who make lists and verify things on them are completed, right?
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Nov 7, 2014 23:48
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Hedningen posted:If you wanna knock a few out, I'll toss you some cash for a few - four with knotwork would be optimal, as I'm making a personal demo box and a Saga-box for a friend's anniversary who has been out of the gaming market for a while due to space concerns. Dude loves vikings, as he and his wife doing viking reenactment, so I figure they'll get a kick outta this. Lemme know what you'd like for 'em and I can shoot you some cash via internet magic. I cleaned out my in box.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:02
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Indolent Bastard posted:I cleaned out my in box. Shot you a reply earlier tonight. It's been a hectic week, but the just the rulers would be great. Let me know what you'd like for them and payment stuff via PM.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:57
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