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Yeah and in 2nd edition, if I remember right you could take them and put in squads or something like that. I can't remember what it was that they did though rules wise. I think it may have been some weird game mechanic where they could become wounded? Or I may be thinking of Rogue Trader, Rogue trader was the one where you didn't remove models. They did something in 2nd edition.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:24
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Reynold posted:I only played way back when with the old Cityfight rulebook, and at the time I preferred it to standard 3rd Edition. Oh, same here. I still have fond memories of a Cityfight game my brother and I played that turned the ground floor of a ruined building into a charnel house on the last couple of turns. He had an Iron Warriors tac squad holed up in there, and I sent my Blood Angels' Death Company and chaplain in there after them. Then his Terminators showed up. Then one of my tac squads showed up, followed closely behind by my Assault marines. I think I ended up winning solely because I had one or two models left on the table after all that.  Good times.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:30
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jadebullet posted:Didn't it used to be that they were special characters similar to Sanguinary Priests? Not as of the tactics update on FW's website. They can take the narthecium AND any additional equipment.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:35
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Hollismason posted:Which is crazy BTW. Like who thought that was a good idea. Forgeworld!! When the red scorpions were originally released, an apothecary just allowed you to ignore the first wound the squad suffered!
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Nov 8, 2014 22:17
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Honestly the Red Scorp ability isn't THAT good. Its' 5+ instead of the IH 6+, but it's tied to a certain precisionable model and is only on Tac squads.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:30
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raverrn posted:Honestly the Red Scorp ability isn't THAT good. Its' 5+ instead of the IH 6+, but it's tied to a certain precisionable model and is only on Tac squads. True, but it is still a pretty good advantage for FREE. That is a big thing with all the SM chapter tactics really, it is just a little extra at no cost. Most of them are situational, and I think the reason the IH CT are so popular is that they are constantly useful. Reducing the wounds you take (bar S8+) by 16% is nothing to scoff at.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:55
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Running those tactics should let me do things a bit more fluffy for my chapter. Do you think people would be upset if I modeled the apothecary as a seperate marine from the Sgt, and just counted the sergent as having the equipment even though it is modeled on a different model?
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Nov 8, 2014 23:08
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Maybe magnetize them both to the same base? That way they'd be visibly part of the same model, and you could remove the sergeant when he's killed while still having the apothecary on the board. Or does killing him remove the effects of the apothecary anyway? I haven't gotten that far into the rules yet.
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Nov 8, 2014 23:17
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jadebullet posted:Running those tactics should let me do things a bit more fluffy for my chapter. Do you think people would be upset if I modeled the apothecary as a seperate marine from the Sgt, and just counted the sergent as having the equipment even though it is modeled on a different model? I don't see why not. There's examples of special characters with a model running around after them holding their equipment (Azrael, Grimaldus) or just being upgrades (ammo grots). Clearly though you should make them little adorable servbots ala Megaman Legends 
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Nov 8, 2014 23:18
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Faced the green tide today - lost narrowly. Lobbas with 5 ammo runts and 30 grots are cheap and effective. The tide - 100 Orks, boss, mek, dok - is 900 points of unstoppable ork terror. 4++/5+ is too much to deal with. The next fight I intend to just take the burning blade/shield eternal chapter Master, 10 assault teminators and a priest. 2+/3++ rerollable in combat? Should wear it down.
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Nov 8, 2014 23:32
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I would suggest a mix of lightning claw and thunder hammer terminators - the extra attacks are a really big deal once you get bogged in. Power klaw attacks etc can still be nominated onto the storm shields.
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Nov 8, 2014 23:45
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An Angry Bug posted:Maybe magnetize them both to the same base? That way they'd be visibly part of the same model, and you could remove the sergeant when he's killed while still having the apothecary on the board. Or does killing him remove the effects of the apothecary anyway? I haven't gotten that far into the rules yet. How it works is that with the Red Scorpions chapter tactics, your tactical squad Sgts and vet Sgts can have a Narthecium at no extra points cost. Since my chapter has a very high need to recover the gene seed due to their beliefs, I was thinking of having every squad have an Apothecary, but I don't really want it to be modeled as the Sgt. I was just thinking of replacing one of the regular Marine models as an Apothecary, but rules wise, it is still the Sgt who has the Narthecium on paper. (as in, if the Apothecary model gets taken out, they still count as having FNP, but if the Sgt dies, I lose it.) Also, where do you get Apothecary pieces besides the Command Squad anyway? I have one that I got with that set a while back, but I am not sure if they made more.
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Nov 9, 2014 00:59
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Speaking of apothecaries, is there a way to get easy FnP onto a unit for astra militarum or space marines? I cant seem to see it other than the medpack or the apothecary. Do they just have nothing like a mad dok?
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Nov 9, 2014 01:35
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Lord Twisted posted:Speaking of apothecaries, is there a way to get easy FnP onto a unit for astra militarum or space marines? I cant seem to see it other than the medpack or the apothecary. Do they just have nothing like a mad dok? Space Marines get Iron Hands chapter tactics
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Nov 9, 2014 01:38
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Lord Twisted posted:Speaking of apothecaries, is there a way to get easy FnP onto a unit for astra militarum or space marines? I cant seem to see it other than the medpack or the apothecary. Do they just have nothing like a mad dok? Im pretty sure priests can give a unit FnP with their prayers, I'm phone posting and dont have access to my codex to check.
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Nov 9, 2014 01:41
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jadebullet posted:How it works is that with the Red Scorpions chapter tactics, your tactical squad Sgts and vet Sgts can have a Narthecium at no extra points cost. Since my chapter has a very high need to recover the gene seed due to their beliefs, I was thinking of having every squad have an Apothecary, but I don't really want it to be modeled as the Sgt. I was just thinking of replacing one of the regular Marine models as an Apothecary, but rules wise, it is still the Sgt who has the Narthecium on paper. (as in, if the Apothecary model gets taken out, they still count as having FNP, but if the Sgt dies, I lose it.) That honestly sounds really confusing and annoying. What's the huge deal with your Sergeant actually having the narthecium?
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Nov 9, 2014 01:54
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:That honestly sounds really confusing and annoying. What's the huge deal with your Sergeant actually having the narthecium? Modeling basically. The Sgt has his own look, and the Apothecary is different from that look. The chapter is pretty Codex compliant with only slight deviations, such as a larger than usual Apothecarion. The more I think about it, the less confusing it seems, since tactical squads can't take Apothecaries normally, and the chapter tactics dictate that it is the sergeant that actually gets the wargear, so it is just a matter of making sure that my Sergeant is obviously the Sergeant, so that won't be too hard. I might pick up a few helmet crests to make it even more obvious. (plus helmet crests are cool)
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Nov 9, 2014 02:18
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If you plan to play tournaments with this army it will confuse and piss people off.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:27
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jadebullet posted:Modeling basically. The Sgt has his own look, and the Apothecary is different from that look. The chapter is pretty Codex compliant with only slight deviations, such as a larger than usual Apothecarion. Why not just make a little servo-medic or something rather than having a regular marine (that has its own wargear) carrying the sergeant's gear? I mean, what happens if the sergeant dies before the medic does? Or vice-versa?
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Nov 9, 2014 02:27
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Improbable Lobster posted:Why not just make a little servo-medic or something rather than having a regular marine (that has its own wargear) carrying the sergeant's gear? I mean, what happens if the sergeant dies before the medic does? Or vice-versa? Yeah, just model a "token" that represents the sergeant having a narthecium. The token can be a straight up apothecary model, just say they have a suicide pact.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:31
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Hra Mormo posted:Yeah, just model a "token" that represents the sergeant having a narthecium. The token can be a straight up apothecary model, just say they have a suicide pact. I will probably just do this. Saves me the problem of figuring out what to do with the extra marine. It also solves the problem that is having a medic in a command position.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:35
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Yeah, sounds like mediskull is the best option here.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:35
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Well I am going more along the lines of the Apothecary marine model is the token, rather than a servo skull or something like that. I figure his white paint scheme vs the dark grey of the rest of the chapter will make him distinctive enough that there won't be confusion as to what one is the medic token, and I will just have him chill at the back of the squad.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:45
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Lord Twisted posted:Speaking of apothecaries, is there a way to get easy FnP onto a unit for astra militarum or space marines? I cant seem to see it other than the medpack or the apothecary. Do they just have nothing like a mad dok? Medpacks are the only way for AM as far as I know. my kinda ape fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 02:47
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jadebullet posted:Well I am going more along the lines of the Apothecary marine model is the token, rather than a servo skull or something like that. I figure his white paint scheme vs the dark grey of the rest of the chapter will make him distinctive enough that there won't be confusion as to what one is the medic token, and I will just have him chill at the back of the squad. Having a separate model will confuse a lot of people, I'd really recommend against it.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:01
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Direwolf posted:Having a separate model will confuse a lot of people, I'd really recommend against it. Ooo, the sergeant should be giving the apothecary a piggy-back ride
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Nov 9, 2014 03:08
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Eh, maybe I will just go with different chapter tactics and just have the Apothecary in there for fluff purposes only. You think that for such an important role in the chapter, there would be more ability to use one.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:10
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jadebullet posted:Well I am going more along the lines of the Apothecary marine model is the token, rather than a servo skull or something like that. I figure his white paint scheme vs the dark grey of the rest of the chapter will make him distinctive enough that there won't be confusion as to what one is the medic token, and I will just have him chill at the back of the squad. Having an extra marine model with the unit as a token is just asking for trouble. You'll run into problems when people draw range to it or fail an assault because the unit was further away than they thought. Even just if people think the unit has one more model in it than it has. Honestly you should just give your sgts white helmets or a servo skull on his shoulder/backpack. They grey knight terminator kit has an ideal one.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:12
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Yeah, that is understandable. Really, it is more about having the model in the squad than it is for him to actually function as an Apothecary. I will probably just go back to using Ultramarines tactics like I intended.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:15
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Just randomly having an apothecary in a squad is also going to be really confusing.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:40
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I don't see how. There are no rules that allow an apothecary in anything but a command squad, so having a member of a tactical squad painted white and equipped with a Narcesium shouldn't really cause much confusion. I mean, for all intents and purposes, they are still tactical marines, just with an added role. It isn't like I am throwing Librarians into every squad.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:57
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You're really insistent on having an extra model, to the point where it feels like you actually want Cataphract posted:Having an extra marine model with the unit as a token is just asking for trouble. to happen and are trying to trick us into telling you it's okay. Edit: Oh, you're just going to have it be one of the tac marines. That sounds fine.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:07
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It's extra models there that don't do anything, just go with Red Scorpions Chapter Tactics and go whole hog or go with Iron Hands for the 6+ FNP. Don't confuse it, since people can generally identify Apothecaries and know what they do. I played in a 3 game tournament today. I had two really fun games, and one that was an absolute beatdown where I knew I would lose from the moment I saw my opponent's army. I brought my fluffy and not terribly hard Ultramarine list and fought two similarly scaled armies in the first two rounds until I faced a Tau battlesuit army with two each of Riptides, commanders, crisis teams, and broadside teams. One broadside team put down 22 wounds that ignored cover and didn't need line of sight and wiped out my Guard blob in the first round of shooting. It was basically two turns of me putting models away followed by three turns of me being incredibly sneaky and almost eking out a tie, only for my 400 points of Terminators and Librarian to mishap and die. When the game ended at the end of turn 5, I still had 3 models left on the table. I jumped for joy, yelled out "I didn't get tabled!" and hi fived my opponent. I think I'm going to stop running the allied IG with my Marines, as they were just a liability every game. They'd either just be a target for the token Thunderfire Cannon/Terminator squad, or get wiped wholesale without doing a drat thing. The only things my IG did that were worth anything were when my PCS was hiding only to pop out and melt a Riptide (huge moral victory right there) and the Leman Russ Exterminator on the three-four turns all day I got to use it. I think I'm going to replace that IG detachment with bikes and Devastators and a Predator and do just as well. Also here's pictures folks took at the tournament of my dudes:         As an added bonus, this one dude I met last year was there again, and I really hope I get to play him some time. He runs Iron Warriors using Iron Hands rules and I have no idea what Mutoid Man here does, but he owns: 
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Nov 9, 2014 06:16
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Sounds like your Guardsmen did exactly what Guardsmen are meant to do: Die in droves.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:18
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BlackIronHeart posted:Sounds like your Guardsmen did exactly what Guardsmen are meant to do: Die in droves. I like it when they get to shoot first or something though! At another tourney I took a Guard army with over 100 infantry models on the table and got tabled in 2/3 games, and it wasn't a hard tournament or anything of the sort. I'm used to them dying but they usually get something done first.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:20
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jadebullet posted:Yeah, that is understandable. Really, it is more about having the model in the squad than it is for him to actually function as an Apothecary. I will probably just go back to using Ultramarines tactics like I intended. Red Scorpions have neat chapter tactics and as gene seed purists, they're sort of the most extreme of the already fundamentally nazi-esque imperium. Forgeworld loves their in- house chapters. As far as modeling goes, I've made a couple converted apothecaries using power fists and combat blades and some creative iconography. It would be relatively easy to make a good looking sergeant that doubles as a combat vet medic. I'll post a picture with a quick instruction if you're interested.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:23
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I would love to see some conversions like that. And yeah, sorry about the confusion. The extra model as a token idea was pretty flawed of an idea. In any case, An Angry Bug has figured out what I have decided to go with, which is pretty much a normal tactical squad, only one of the guys is painted differently. No special rules or anything, and no Red Scorpions chapter tactics since that would add confusion. I am just going to run them as Ultramarines. I just think it would be cool to have an Apothecary model mixed into a squad or two since it would look cool, and fit the fluff. I mean, what is the worst that can happen, my enemy gets confused and decides to shoot a tactical marine in a squad full of tactical marines? In any case, I just play for fun and don't do any tournaments or anything, so I am sure it will be fine with my opponents, if not I will just swap it out for a regular painted marine. Sorry that it caused a derail like this.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:53
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jadebullet posted:I would love to see some conversions like that. I'll get some pictures in a bit and write up a post. That said, don't necessarily get discouraged by the confusion. Ultras have a very well defined color standard with white and red helmet paint jobs to signify rank, which can translate easily to a proxy for an apothecary, whom in terminator armor has a chapter color suit with white helmet and narthecium. Most opponents will be fine with basic proxies like "the guy with the white helmet is the sergeant, he's also an apothecary due to my chapter tactics." Just don't be "those empty bases are actually my exotic forgeworld named hero and his command squad. . . No there's no paint on the bases to tell which is who, but I'll just remember and roll with it." That guy is an rear end.
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Nov 9, 2014 07:02
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So a Stormtrooper army centered aroud 10 man squads in the fast Tauroxes backed up with tyr command squads in Vendettas. Best idea? Worst idea? Part of me thinks it'll play like Imperial pseudo-Dark Eldar. I'm just thinking about projects and I'm kind of burnt out on old poo poo right now since all my metal models are chipping like crazy regardless of how much varnish I use.
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Nov 9, 2014 07:06
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koreban posted:I'll get some pictures in a bit and write up a post. That said, don't necessarily get discouraged by the confusion. Ultras have a very well defined color standard with white and red helmet paint jobs to signify rank, which can translate easily to a proxy for an apothecary, whom in terminator armor has a chapter color suit with white helmet and narthecium. It is a custom chapter, but they are Ultramarines successors so I am taking queues from the Ultramarines and painting the sergeant's helmet a different color than the rest of the squad. I do have the Sergeant and the Apothecary models built already and they look pretty cool. In any case, I don't want to use the Red Scorpions tactics anyway because I plan on running scouts and the lack of camo cloak might make that a much more difficult prospect. And don't worry, I am not that guy. I take it you have run into someone like that before? Of course, I have run a game where my 3 speeder squadron of land speeders consisted of a completely black land speeder, and 2 paper rhinos, though that was done just to see how that particular arrangement would work out before I bought 2 more speeders and everyone was okay with it. (apparently the 2 paper rhinos that my friend has have been proxied for almost everything imaginable.)
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Nov 9, 2014 07:17
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