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slap me silly posted:It's just posturing, there's no legitimacy to it. It's just unlikely that anyone is willing (or even able) to sell for a price well below what they're asking. Also, Mahoning sounds like a typical realtor who's drunk the Koolaid. Listening to what he says won't save you any money on a house, but it will help you understand how realtors think. Kinda like the bankruptcy attorney in the Debt Collection thread who's solution for everyone is to declare bankruptcy. You have to consider the source.
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Nov 8, 2014 13:40
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Dik Hz posted:I don't know. For every buyer that lowballs, it seems that there's a seller who lists their house at +25% market rate because they think that someone might pay it. The best idea is to do your own research, or use a trusted professional, to determine an appropriate value for the house and make an offer that you're comfortable with. If the seller says no, move on. I agree with this. But I think it so often happens because it's a pretty basic negotiating tactic (that I plan on using). It gives you extra room move in negotiations. And you never know if someone really desperate might come along and offers you full price, or a smaller amount off than you expected.
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Nov 8, 2014 13:45
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Mahoning posted:Like I said, if I'm gonna base my advice in this thread on the people that already know what we're doing, then there probably won't be much to say. Maybe I'm wasting my time in this thread, I don't know. I'm just pretty hard wired to assume someone is not an expert home buyer because MOST people aren't, because it's something that most people do only 2 or maybe 3 times in their life and the market changes so quickly that many times one experience can have nothing in common with a second or third. Edit: poo poo, forgot the thread title got changed. Point still stands, though.
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Nov 8, 2014 13:46
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Jesus Christ you sperglords. In this echo chamber of somethingawful.com, we tend to forget that there are people who aren't 100% logical beep beep boop boop house robots. Mahoning is coming from a place where he deals with these people every day, and you can tell by how he answers questions. Not a fault, he's a guy doing a job and getting paid. Do you princes of the internet necessarily need a realtor or need to listen to his advice? No. But for the love of god, coming from a guy that frequently negotiates large purchases (but not houses) as a profession, remember that "human nature" is a thing. That 600k example house ink the 500k neighborhood? The seller is convinced that for some reason, it's worth more money. Is it upgrades? Is it the lot? Is it because they've raised their kids there? Who the gently caress knows. The majority of people attach an emotional context to transactions, ESPECIALLY a giant one like a house. A lowball offer can feel like a "gently caress you your hopes and dreams as embodied in this physical thing aren't nearly worth what you think". Negotiations generally don't make it past that point.
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Nov 8, 2014 14:12
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TacoHavoc posted:But for the love of god, coming from a guy that frequently negotiates large purchases (but not houses) as a profession, remember that "human nature" is a thing. That 600k example house ink the 500k neighborhood? The seller is convinced that for some reason, it's worth more money. Is it upgrades? Is it the lot? Is it because they've raised their kids there? Who the gently caress knows. The majority of people attach an emotional context to transactions, ESPECIALLY a giant one like a house. A lowball offer can feel like a "gently caress you your hopes and dreams as embodied in this physical thing aren't nearly worth what you think". Negotiations generally don't make it past that point. Right, I agree with this as well. Which is why it was asked (indirectly and directly) last page how to deal with this, and how to use it best to your advantage. Or if you should just walk away.
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Nov 8, 2014 14:18
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TacoHavoc posted:Jesus Christ you sperglords. In this echo chamber of somethingawful.com, we tend to forget that there are people who aren't 100% logical beep beep boop boop house robots. Mahoning is coming from a place where he deals with these people every day, and you can tell by how he answers questions. Not a fault, he's a guy doing a job and getting paid. Do you princes of the internet necessarily need a realtor or need to listen to his advice? No.
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Nov 8, 2014 15:31
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TacoHavoc posted:Jesus Christ you sperglords. In this echo chamber of somethingawful.com, we tend to forget that there are people who aren't 100% logical beep beep boop boop house robots. Mahoning is coming from a place where he deals with these people every day, and you can tell by how he answers questions. Not a fault, he's a guy doing a job and getting paid. Do you princes of the internet necessarily need a realtor or need to listen to his advice? No. Yeah, when I asked directly how to take advantage of this, it may have sounded snarky or something, but I was dead serious. I suppose the counterpoint is also how to prevent yourself from getting taken advantage emotionally - what are the common techniques to look out for?
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Nov 8, 2014 16:32
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Mahoning posted:Like I said, if I'm gonna base my advice in this thread on the people that already know what we're doing, then there probably won't be much to say. Maybe I'm wasting my time in this thread, I don't know. I didn't really follow this current argument but I just wanted to say I really appreciated the advice you gave me earlier and it helped me, I don't think you are wasting your time here.
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Nov 8, 2014 18:22
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TacoHavoc posted:But for the love of god, coming from a guy that frequently negotiates large purchases (but not houses) as a profession, remember that "human nature" is a thing. That 600k example house ink the 500k neighborhood? The seller is convinced that for some reason, it's worth more money. Is it upgrades? Is it the lot? Is it because they've raised their kids there? Who the gently caress knows. The majority of people attach an emotional context to transactions, ESPECIALLY a giant one like a house. A lowball offer can feel like a "gently caress you your hopes and dreams as embodied in this physical thing aren't nearly worth what you think". Negotiations generally don't make it past that point. As a prospective buyer I don't give a gently caress, I'm going to offer you $500k for the house that I feel is worth $500k because that's what I think is fair. Anyone that takes that as an insult probably deserves to be insulted, maybe it'll bring them back to reality
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Nov 8, 2014 18:59
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Mahoning posted:Because I think swinging your dick around with a lowball offer burns you more often than it works. Unless you're in a position where you're coming in with a ton of cash, are offering non-refundable earnest money in a large amount, or are in a position where you can take or leave the house, then it's not wise to gamble that much.
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Nov 8, 2014 19:28
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Rurutia posted:Right, I agree with this as well. Which is why it was asked (indirectly and directly) last page how to deal with this, and how to use it best to your advantage. Or if you should just walk away. Please keep in mind that my negotiating experience with houses is limited to the one I bought. I do negotiate for similar dollar value purchases frequently though. Logic and patience are really your only two options. Do some research. The Internet is great, lots of towns put their lot maps online so you can find the owners easily. Lots of times you see refinances as zero dollar transactions in town records. That could give you an idea of how much they might owe on the house and how much room they have to work. Google the owner. Can you find them? What do they do? I got lucky and the previous owner of my house owned a car dealership. That tells me he is likely okay with negotiating things without dragging feelings into it, and it explained why his house was overpriced for the market (he was leaving himself room, price it high and watch 'em buy, etc.) If you're going to present an offer, explain why you are offering less than their asking price. Bad schools? Maybe they are old and didn't consider that factor when pricing. Weird layout? It's not weird to them, they're used to it. Essentially, explaining why you'd like their house for less than their asking price (in a nice way) can somewhat "humanize" the offer and maybe give them incentive to negotiate with you. And then patience. Remember, at the end of the day they want to sell their house. If you have time, leave the offer and let them know you are willing to talk whenever. I guess just remember that people are human and no matter how logical your offer may be to you, someone else may be using a whole different set of variables to evaluate it. There's no easy answer and its a hard process, which is why a lot of people find the help of a realtor necessary and reassuring.
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Nov 8, 2014 19:38
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TacoHavoc posted:Please keep in mind that my negotiating experience with houses is limited to the one I bought. I do negotiate for similar dollar value purchases frequently though. Now we're talking, this is some great stuff.
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Nov 8, 2014 19:49
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Ugh so the garage door opener isn't working right, and the water softener is essentially a huge rusted tank of nothing. Looks like we'll call the home warranty folks and see what they can do. I hear they aren't worth the paper they are printed on...but we'll see.
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Nov 8, 2014 19:50
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The housing market can be reduced to the context of a specific home sale at a specific time. I bought my house in December 2011. The owner had originally listed the home for $749k in February. De-listed and re-listed at $699k in June. De-listed and re-listed at $649k in September. Similar houses were selling for between $675-$725k in those months. I made my offer at $612k after visiting the open house in November. My agent told me he felt it was a low-ball offer and would not be taken seriously. The selling agent "double-checked" with my agent before submitting to the owner to let him know that the seller had been offended by low offers previously, would not appreciate my offer and would likely terminate negotiations. Upon hearing that, I wrote a letter to the seller to tell him that I hoped he would not be offended by my offer but it was as much as I could afford. I agreed that my offer was lower than the market comps but my only option was to move to a lesser market and not to come up with more money. I hoped he wouldn't be offended but I loved the house and it was the best I'd seen in the 4 months I had been looking and this was my last gasp effort before accepting less for the family I was hoping to raise. Reluctantly (and I found out later with much anger directed toward the selling agent) he accepted. He and his wife had finished building their $2 million dream home at the beach that summer, had moved out of the house months before, and they were tiring of the process. I like to think that my letter helped nudge him over the top but in retrospect timing and his particular situation and stress likely played in my favor. 10 months later when I re-financed, the house appraised at $650k. Last month an identical house on a smaller/less desirable lot sold for $820k. The seller was right to expect more but I was right to submit my "lowball" offer. Point being - I agree with the earlier assertion that all offers are serious. It's unfortunate that there's such a veil of secrecy between buyer and seller (although I understand why it exists). Sometimes there's more to the market than lining up comps. Timing and circumstance are just as important and you never know what the seller is thinking.
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Nov 10, 2014 21:35
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Got pre-approved! Found out the house we like is probably going to close this week. smh
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Nov 10, 2014 22:09
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Spamtron7000 posted:
I think the secrecy is probably rooted in the whole don't sell to a minority horror fest that used to exist.
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Nov 10, 2014 22:41
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What is the etiquette on attending open houses without the intent to buy? I'm still renting but will likely enter the market as a first time buyer in the next couple of years. I'd like to check out some houses in an area I'm interested in to get an idea of what's available and price ranges. My main concerns would be 1) wasting the time of the realtor when they could be talking to a potential buyer and 2) a realtor trying to get in my ear to be my buyer's agent in the future. What's the best way to handle this?
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Nov 10, 2014 23:53
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mtr posted:What is the etiquette on attending open houses without the intent to buy? I'm still renting but will likely enter the market as a first time buyer in the next couple of years. I'd like to check out some houses in an area I'm interested in to get an idea of what's available and price ranges. Just be honest. Say "I'm still renting but will likely enter the market as a first time buyer in the next couple of years. I'd like to check out some houses in an area I'm interested in to get an idea of what's available and price ranges," and then don't give them contact information. Take their card, be polite, and decide if you might want to work with them in the future. Or throw the card away when you get home. Lots of people go to open houses even if they're not planning to buy/sell soon.
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Nov 11, 2014 00:21
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I'm sure they're used to it. If nothing else, lots of nosy neighbors like to pop in and see whats up (my mom and I did that when I was in high school in a new subdivision).
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Nov 11, 2014 00:23
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Yeah, just go. Don't sweat it.
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Nov 11, 2014 00:38
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A vacant set of 3 lots just went up for sale in my area. They are each appraised around 12000 per the county and the owner is asking 400k for the set. The county site on property info says they are "non buildable". Probably because the sewer line and a local stream bisect them. The various realtor pages have the listing but make no mention of the non buildable status. This is a residental zoned area. Why would someone ask so much for essentially useless land? Is there some other value I am not considering? Can a variance be sought out even in a flood plain? This is fairfax county Va, fwiw.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:16
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mtr posted:What is the etiquette on attending open houses without the intent to buy? I'm still renting but will likely enter the market as a first time buyer in the next couple of years. I'd like to check out some houses in an area I'm interested in to get an idea of what's available and price ranges. Curiosity is a perfectly good reason to go to an open house and realtors shouldn't care unless you're stealing poo poo. If they actually bother to ask, just tell them the truth.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:46
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Mercury Ballistic posted:A vacant set of 3 lots just went up for sale in my area. They are each appraised around 12000 per the county and the owner is asking 400k for the set. The county site on property info says they are "non buildable". Probably because the sewer line and a local stream bisect them.
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Nov 11, 2014 02:29
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Spamtron7000 posted:The housing market can be reduced to the context of a specific home sale at a specific time. I bought my house in December 2011. The owner had originally listed the home for $749k in February. De-listed and re-listed at $699k in June. De-listed and re-listed at $649k in September. Similar houses were selling for between $675-$725k in those months. I made my offer at $612k after visiting the open house in November. My agent told me he felt it was a low-ball offer and would not be taken seriously. The selling agent "double-checked" with my agent before submitting to the owner to let him know that the seller had been offended by low offers previously, would not appreciate my offer and would likely terminate negotiations. Upon hearing that, I wrote a letter to the seller to tell him that I hoped he would not be offended by my offer but it was as much as I could afford. I agreed that my offer was lower than the market comps but my only option was to move to a lesser market and not to come up with more money. I hoped he wouldn't be offended but I loved the house and it was the best I'd seen in the 4 months I had been looking and this was my last gasp effort before accepting less for the family I was hoping to raise. Reluctantly (and I found out later with much anger directed toward the selling agent) he accepted. He and his wife had finished building their $2 million dream home at the beach that summer, had moved out of the house months before, and they were tiring of the process. I like to think that my letter helped nudge him over the top but in retrospect timing and his particular situation and stress likely played in my favor. It should have been obvious to you that your agent was full of poo poo telling you that an offer 6% below list on a property on the market for a year with two price cuts was some ridiculous insulting lowball. Again, I don't think realtors are bad evil people for trying to make money, but when it comes to offers and negotiation their one and only goal is to close a deal and not get you the best price negotiable for the home. This arm's length game with the ostensible pretense of not offending some fragile anonymous party is all part of it.
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Nov 11, 2014 04:10
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I don't think he was full of poo poo at all. He was happy to follow through on our offer and knows me well enough (through other offers that I had made). He just advisedme that he didn't think the offer would go over well based on discussions he'd had with the selling agent. I didn't mean to paint that picture at all.
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Nov 11, 2014 04:23
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mtr posted:What is the etiquette on attending open houses without the intent to buy? I'm still renting but will likely enter the market as a first time buyer in the next couple of years. I'd like to check out some houses in an area I'm interested in to get an idea of what's available and price ranges.
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Nov 11, 2014 05:31
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Does anyone here have any particular experience with sinkholes and foundation underpinning repair? We're interested in a house but are pumping the brakes a bit because we've been given a report on a whole-house foundation underpinning that was done in July. Apparently a "small hole" opened up near the front porch, was filled in, and the work was done afterwards. Is it common for the whole house to be done in this situation? How worried should we be that more holes will open up, or that the foundation was cracked or otherwise damaged? This is in central Florida, by the way, so sinkholes are going to be a concern anywhere, we just aren't sure we want to take on greater risk.
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Nov 11, 2014 07:47
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Spamtron7000 posted:He was happy to follow through on our offer You probably know this, but for the benefit of the thread... Realtors are legally required to submit any offer regardless of what they think of it. Not doing so could lead to a loss of their license and the brokerage's license.
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Nov 11, 2014 11:28
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ALFbrot posted:Does anyone here have any particular experience with sinkholes and foundation underpinning repair? Ask the seller for the structural and geophysical engineering reports before you consider an offer, and if you offer, get your own third party structural engineer for an opinion on the stability and safety of the structure. Look carefully into the problems you may have insuring a house with a known sinkhole. My inclination would be to just walk away to be quite honest because it sounds like a huge potential liability.
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Nov 11, 2014 13:35
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Spamtron7000 posted:I don't think he was full of poo poo at all. He was happy to follow through on our offer and knows me well enough (through other offers that I had made). He just advisedme that he didn't think the offer would go over well based on discussions he'd had with the selling agent. I didn't mean to paint that picture at all. Fair enough, but 6% is almost never some obscene lowball and the thought that someone would just refuse to engage any further with a potential buyer because their offer was 2% lower than they wanted to hear is laughable. If they've significantly cut their price twice they are clearly a) actually interested in selling rather than just seeing if a whale will come to bite on their overpriced property and b) probably not in any position to dismiss any formal offer out of hand. I mean, you can always just offer higher if they decline and you are really interested (p.s. don't let your agent bullshit you that changing the date and one number on an offer sheet and resubmitting it to the seller is an excessive amount of work, either). Congratulations on your home, and good on you for listening to your common sense rather than letting agents cajole you against your own interests.
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Nov 11, 2014 13:45
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I think most agents do their comps and also assume that the selling agent has already talked the seller down to a normal price level and that from there, 3-5% below asking is the "normal" offer range on a normal demand property. Of course you are free to offer whatever you want but usually it will just get shot down as a "lowball" if it's way out of range of comps, etc. This also depends on where you live, I know in my area (Sacramento, CA) that since it's "only" 90 miles from SF - some sellers out here expect a super-commuting FacebookTwitGoog new money millionaire to run out and buy their house for cash since it's so cheap comparatively speaking. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 16:31
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Has anyone had experience buying a house with some unusual architecture? Are they hard to insure? Are they impossible to resell? Is getting contractors to work on anything a nightmare? Also what kind of house is this? Googling barrel style house and egg house gets me nothing useful, but there are a handful of these things in my city. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/214-Mill-Branch-Rd-Tallahassee-FL-32312/45595433_zpid/ besides being a giant egg, the house is pretty much exactly what we are looking for.
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Nov 11, 2014 17:34
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Leroy Diplowski posted:Has anyone had experience buying a house with some unusual architecture? Are they hard to insure? Are they impossible to resell? Is getting contractors to work on anything a nightmare? Also what kind of house is this? Googling barrel style house and egg house gets me nothing useful, but there are a handful of these things in my city. The big "as is" sale disclaimer suggests that yes, it's a pain in the rear end to deal with and that it in fact needs work. If you're interested I'd say plan on both an inspection to find problems and a contractor estimate for needed repairs/wanted improvements during your diligence period. A quirky house is generally going to be a resale liability but that's just one of many factors. For the same reasons you might get a great price on it but definitely do your homework.
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Nov 11, 2014 18:52
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looks like they've been trying to sell it on and off since 2011. I bet the entire structure is wonky and note the sprayfoam in the corner of the bathroom (photo 7) so it's probably leaking everywhere. http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/214-Mill-Branch-Rd_Tallahassee_FL_32312_M68382-05412?source=web It might make more sense to just scrape the lot and build something else on it since the neighboring places are very nice. Sometimes an "as is" disclaimer can just mean the owner doesn't want to/can't afford fix anything. The house I just bought had a "owner will do no repairs" but I still had them repair some small code issues as part of the sale.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:56
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Saw an interesting article in the Washington Post this morning, and immediately thought of this thread. Study suggests Do Never Buy: quote:U.S. home prices crashed 43 percent between 2005 and 2012, yet polls find that the vast majority of Americans still consider home ownership to be a good idea and the best way for average people to build wealth.
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Nov 12, 2014 14:01
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Voodoo posted:Saw an interesting article in the Washington Post this morning, and immediately thought of this thread. The study is suggesting for half of homeowners it was better to rent. Far different from do never buy.
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Nov 12, 2014 15:25
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I am notoriously terrible at math. I'm having a hard time determining if a refinance is really "worth it." My FHA loan was originally for $127,000 @ 5.25% and we are at $100,000 now. A refinance would be for $110,000 (with all fees and so forth rolled into the loan) @ 3.37%. The refinance would reduce the monthly payment for sure, but since we already pay down quite a bit more every month, it looks like we'd pay the house off in the same amount of time, refinance or not. Am I missing something here? Everyone's always like "oh yeah you gotta refinance because interest rates are crazy right now" but using various mortgage payoff calculators, it doesn't seem like we'd actually pay the house off any faster with the same bonus payments per month. Like I said, I'm bad at math and it definitely seems like I'm missing something. I just don't want to refinance for no real reason and make dumb mistakes.
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Nov 12, 2014 15:43
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that sounds like a lot of fees, did you try PenFed?
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Nov 12, 2014 16:12
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Those fees are outrageous, run screaming from that bullshit refinance
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Nov 12, 2014 18:18
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Those were some basic "not an estimate" estimate quotes I got from my credit union. What would be an acceptable amount of fees, and if they were "more reasonable," would it then make sense to refinance, or does my original concern of not really paying off the house any faster have some merit?
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Nov 12, 2014 19:47
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