RC aerial vehicles: because we don't have flying brooms

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > RC aerial vehicles: because we don't have flying brooms

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Elendil004: Mar 22, 2003; The prognosis
is not good.

Go outside idiots Jesus Christ

# ? Nov 11, 2014 05:53

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# ? May 19, 2024 19:05

Cannon_Fodder: Jul 17, 2007; "Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc

I'm this stupid. C'mon guys, don't stoop to my level.

# ? Nov 11, 2014 16:03

i own every Bionicle: Oct 23, 2005; cstm ttle? kthxbye

Elendil004 posted:

Think of hobbyists as the filthy console peasants of the drone world.

edit: though to be fair, most commercial users are nearly as bad or worse.

I see a lot of hobbyists crashing Phantoms into stuff but usually that's where it ends. They run out of money or at least learn what they are doing after a few crashes.

On the other hand, because commercial drone flying isn't really legal in the US in most cases, the people who actually are doing it commercially are:

1. Cowboys who don't give a gently caress
2. Idiots to whom it never occurred that what they were doing is illegal
3. People who buy big, expensive systems with no conception of how they work because it's a business expense, even if they don't need it

Or all of the above.

Then they rush to get gigs without making sure their equipment is working well, don't have experience flying the aircraft without GPS, don't take the time to set proper failsafes, etc.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 04:20

Vitamin J: Aug 16, 2006; God, just tell me to shut up already. I have a clear anti-domestic bias and a lack of facts.

Wojcigitty posted:

I see a lot of hobbyists crashing Phantoms into stuff but usually that's where it ends. They run out of money or at least learn what they are doing after a few crashes.

On the other hand, because commercial drone flying isn't really legal in the US in most cases, the people who actually are doing it commercially are:

1. Cowboys who don't give a gently caress
2. Idiots to whom it never occurred that what they were doing is illegal
3. People who buy big, expensive systems with no conception of how they work because it's a business expense, even if they don't need it

Or all of the above.

Then they rush to get gigs without making sure their equipment is working well, don't have experience flying the aircraft without GPS, don't take the time to set proper failsafes, etc.

Can you cite a law or regulation that gives you reason to say commercial UAV use is illegal? Last time I checked the FAA's attempts to fine commercial flyers in court have been dismissed and they have even admitted in their court pleadings that their cease and desist letters have no legal backing, among other things.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 06:25

Elendil004: Mar 22, 2003; The prognosis
is not good.

Yeah while the FAA says it's not legal, they don't have the actual laws to back it up. I've certainly lost clients though, hard to tell them they have a lawyer who's an idiot.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 06:27

i own every Bionicle: Oct 23, 2005; cstm ttle? kthxbye

Vitamin J posted:

Can you cite a law or regulation that gives you reason to say commercial UAV use is illegal? Last time I checked the FAA's attempts to fine commercial flyers in court have been dismissed and they have even admitted in their court pleadings that their cease and desist letters have no legal backing, among other things.

Sorry, it was wrong of me to say that commercial UAV use is illegal. I meant to say that in most cases it is against the FAA's rules: https://www.faa.gov/uas/

My point is just that the dubious legality of commercial drone use, and the fact that it is directly contrary to the FAA's rules, filters a lot of cautious, safety-minded people (but not all, certainly) out of the industry.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 16:08

Vitamin J: Aug 16, 2006; God, just tell me to shut up already. I have a clear anti-domestic bias and a lack of facts.

Wojcigitty posted:

Sorry, it was wrong of me to say that commercial UAV use is illegal. I meant to say that in most cases it is against the FAA's rules: https://www.faa.gov/uas/

My point is just that the dubious legality of commercial drone use, and the fact that it is directly contrary to the FAA's rules, filters a lot of cautious, safety-minded people (but not all, certainly) out of the industry.

None of their rules are enforceable until Congress says so, and they haven't. Creating regulations for UAVs is a multi-year, maybe decade long process and they are just at the beginning. None of the FAA's current FARs or definitions are applicable to unmanned vehicles and that's why no one has been prosecuted when the FAA has tried to fine them for violating FARs while operating commercially (Huerta vs. Pirker).

The FAA has been running a strategy of bullying and intimidation and has tried to blur the line between actual enforceable regulations, proposed regulations, and just plain misinformation and it's been working pretty well unfortunately.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 20:29

ImplicitAssembler: Jan 24, 2013

Outside the AMA, is it possible to get a liability insurance for UAVs/RC aircraft in the US without the approval of the FAA?.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 23:45

Vitamin J: Aug 16, 2006; God, just tell me to shut up already. I have a clear anti-domestic bias and a lack of facts.

I know a few people who have their drones insured on their Homeowner's policy and a few others who use generic business insurance for liability and the adjusters didn't bat an eye when they said drones. As for specific RC insurance, I think the AMA is the only group, and they're only for hobbyists.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 19:37

RaoulDuke12: Nov 9, 2004; The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but to those who see it coming and jump aside.

My insurance agent set up a general liability policy for my drone, but he says there's no mechanism for insuring it while it's actually in the air. So it's insured if it crashes and hits something on the ground but technically any sort of mid air collision, as unlikely as that would be, would not be covered.

Also, I've avoided putting some aerial stock footage online for sale, it just doesn't seem profitable since all it would take is a lawsuit to wipe out any revenue, even if I won. It's an odd situation.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 20:34

Vitamin J: Aug 16, 2006; God, just tell me to shut up already. I have a clear anti-domestic bias and a lack of facts.

Testing slow-mo with the new Hero4 Black in snowfall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OlvFus3muM

# ? Nov 13, 2014 23:20

CrazyLittle: Sep 11, 2001; Clapping Larry

I can't help but tilt my head in compensation while watching that video

# ? Nov 13, 2014 23:38

rotaryfun: Jun 30, 2008; you can be my wingman anytime

So how do we feel about this article? Basically guy doesn't know how to fly and decides they should be illegal. Sweet.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/13/7205741/i-almost-killed-someone-with-a-drone

# ? Nov 14, 2014 03:28

moron izzard: Nov 17, 2006; Grimey Drawer

Thats an incredibly overly antagonist way to summarize the article but ok

# ? Nov 14, 2014 06:35

Elendil004: Mar 22, 2003; The prognosis
is not good.

A Yolo Wizard posted:

Thats an incredibly overly antagonist way to summarize the article but ok

No that guy is a loving idiot. Has no business flying, let alone in those conditions. Demonstrates great incompetence and almost injured someone then bloo bloos about lack of regulation.

Edit: the consensus, and I agree, is that the story is fake, for clicks.

Re: commercial insurance, I use transportrisk.com they have a good policy, and does cover in flight issues.

Elendil004 fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Nov 14, 2014

# ? Nov 14, 2014 06:57

CrazyLittle: Sep 11, 2001; Clapping Larry

Just totalled up what it would cost to quad-from-scratch today and I'm amazed. Newbs never had it easier/cheaper:

Elendil004 posted:

No that guy is a loving idiot. Has no business flying, let alone in those conditions. Demonstrates great incompetence and almost injured someone then bloo bloos about lack of regulation.

Edit: the consensus, and I agree, is that the story is fake, for clicks.

Re: commercial insurance, I use transportrisk.com they have a good policy, and does cover in flight issues.

One problem: Who are you/me/us to say who can and can't fly? Anyone with cash can put something in the sky that could do real damage.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 09:35

rotaryfun: Jun 30, 2008; you can be my wingman anytime

A Yolo Wizard posted:

Thats an incredibly overly antagonist way to summarize the article but ok

I'm not trying to pick a fight with him or anything. I just think some common sense has to come into play here. He clearly states several time GPS lock was no good, it was really quite windy, and that he loses his sense of direction with the quad (I'm attributing this to lack of practice/flying time/flying in weather beyond his abilities), but because of all that it needs to be illegal for everyone? Come on now.

rotaryfun fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Nov 14, 2014

# ? Nov 14, 2014 13:14

Vitamin J: Aug 16, 2006; God, just tell me to shut up already. I have a clear anti-domestic bias and a lack of facts.

CrazyLittle posted:

One problem: Who are you/me/us to say who can and can't fly? Anyone with cash can put something in the sky that could do real damage.

A Phantom is a glorified RC helicopter that carries a camera. Hobby shops across the country have been selling RC helicopters and worse to 14 year olds for decades. The only issue with this guy is that he bought a "drone" because it's a cool new thing and not because he's an aeronautical enthusiast and treated it like he'd treat an iPhone or Roomba or any other new piece of technology. IMO this isn't really his fault because that's how Phantoms are marketed. Though if any product blinks red that probably means something is wrong.

As for almost killing someone, the danger was no greater than if he and his son were playing playing baseball and whacked a ball into the street.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 19:28

The Eyes Have It: Feb 10, 2008; Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

He is of course free to purchase something and attempt to fly it, perhaps carefully and perhaps not, and tell people what he took away from the experience. His fellow citizens are also free to call him a thoughtless fool.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 20:26

PuTTY riot: Nov 16, 2002

Vitamin J posted:

A Phantom is a glorified RC helicopter that carries a camera. Hobby shops across the country have been selling RC helicopters and worse to 14 year olds for decades. The only issue with this guy is that he bought a "drone" because it's a cool new thing and not because he's an aeronautical enthusiast and treated it like he'd treat an iPhone or Roomba or any other new piece of technology. IMO this isn't really his fault because that's how Phantoms are marketed. Though if any product blinks red that probably means something is wrong.

As for almost killing someone, the danger was no greater than if he and his son were playing playing baseball and whacked a ball into the street.

Hitting baseballs in a suburban front yard is a pretty dumb idea too.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 20:50

ImplicitAssembler: Jan 24, 2013

Vitamin J posted:

A Phantom is a glorified RC helicopter that carries a camera. Hobby shops across the country have been selling RC helicopters and worse to 14 year olds for decades. The only issue with this guy is that he bought a "drone" because it's a cool new thing and not because he's an aeronautical enthusiast and treated it like he'd treat an iPhone or Roomba or any other new piece of technology. IMO this isn't really his fault because that's how Phantoms are marketed. Though if any product blinks red that probably means something is wrong.

As for almost killing someone, the danger was no greater than if he and his son were playing playing baseball and whacked a ball into the street.

Difference is that most RC helicopters in untrained hands ends up doing stuff similar to this on their first flight and probably don't fly again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJhYU9Gj8sE

Also, he's not saying that it should be illegal, but that it should be regulated. That he then repeatedly admits to flying it in built-up areas (already a no-no) and already don't care about the rules does show that he *is* an idiot.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 21:05

Vitamin J: Aug 16, 2006; God, just tell me to shut up already. I have a clear anti-domestic bias and a lack of facts.

ImplicitAssembler posted:

Difference is that most RC helicopters in untrained hands ends up doing stuff similar to this on their first flight and probably don't fly again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJhYU9Gj8sE

Also, he's not saying that it should be illegal, but that it should be regulated. That he then repeatedly admits to flying it in built-up areas (already a no-no) and already don't care about the rules does show that he *is* an idiot.

Actually, I think most RC helis end up doing stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxFOXbIxiNc

But I take your point.

As for regulations, no I don't believe there should be any regulations at all when it comes to RC model aircraft, and congress agrees with me.

What he did was reckless and negligent and we already have laws for those.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 22:32

The Eyes Have It: Feb 10, 2008; Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

Vitamin J posted:

What he did was reckless and negligent and we already have laws for those.

Like this has ever stopped anyone from making more laws. Or from doing [thing] anyway, for that matter :razz:

# ? Nov 14, 2014 22:35

Elendil004: Mar 22, 2003; The prognosis
is not good.

Pretty sure I'm pulling the trigger on Inspire 1.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 23:09

BabelFish: Jul 20, 2013; Fallen Rib

Elendil004 posted:

Pretty sure I'm pulling the trigger on Inspire 1.

http://www.dji.com/product/inspire-1

You know, I'm not one for pre-built solutions, but drat if that isn't impressive. I especially like the removable camera.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 00:15

mashed: Jul 27, 2004

It would be great if things like the phantom had a learn to fly mode built in that you had to put the time into to learn manual orientations etc with before it would let you fly it on auto. Its impractical and unworkable but hey I can dream.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 00:25

moron izzard: Nov 17, 2006; Grimey Drawer

Elendil004 posted:

No that guy is a loving idiot. Has no business flying, let alone in those conditions. Demonstrates great incompetence and almost injured someone then bloo bloos about lack of regulation.

Edit: the consensus, and I agree, is that the story is fake, for clicks.

Re: commercial insurance, I use transportrisk.com they have a good policy, and does cover in flight issues.

Hes not competent at this yes, but if you think the moral of this story is, "hobbyist multirotor usage should be illegal," you're also a dummy. I don't think he got to that point in an effective way, or that his dumb behavior is excusable in any condition, or that this article was good at all, but that doesn't excuse people of not getting the point.

ImplicitAssembler posted:

Difference is that most RC helicopters in untrained hands ends up doing stuff similar to this on their first flight and probably don't fly again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJhYU9Gj8sE

the video title cut off at For... for me and I assumed it was going to be "forearm"

mashed_penguin posted:

It would be great if things like the phantom had a learn to fly mode built in that you had to put the time into to learn manual orientations etc with before it would let you fly it on auto. Its impractical and unworkable but hey I can dream.

They actually have them modeled in both realflight 7.5 and aero rc now, and presumably with the refresh and the new controller, you could hook up the official remote to your pc if you wanted.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 02:07

moron izzard: Nov 17, 2006; Grimey Drawer

I kinda want an inspire, even with their camera. Some norwegian dudes made an interchangeable thingy for the vision+ that let you swap between the normal camera /gimbal and a zenmuse + gopro, so maybe there will be a third party solution for that. Maybe I should try one of those 3dr / apm quads next - you can do optical flow and ground station and automated stuff with those, right?

Also I got in some beta for a orthomosaic thing from one of the companies mentioned on the dji press conference, so I'm gonna try that soon. Have to get some surveyor spray paint and mark poo poo out. They said at some point they wanted to make it like an "uber for drones" and I have no loving clue what they are thinkin but makin maps is cool and a reason to use my quad more.

http://www.skycatch.com/workmode/home

quote:

transportrisk.com

this was the one mentioned in the creativelive webinar, I'm gonna look into that

moron izzard fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Nov 15, 2014

# ? Nov 15, 2014 02:13

RaoulDuke12: Nov 9, 2004; The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but to those who see it coming and jump aside.

mashed_penguin posted:

It would be great if things like the phantom had a learn to fly mode built in that you had to put the time into to learn manual orientations etc with before it would let you fly it on auto. Its impractical and unworkable but hey I can dream.

It's not built into the software obviously but the phantom can with a "flight school" manual that slowly walked you through the basic and the advanced maneuvers and skills necessary to operate it. I did the "course" and it made familiarizing myself with the quad very easy. But I'm sure most people just throw that away.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 04:54

mashed: Jul 27, 2004

Well my new Ritewing Z3 showed up today. I won't get a chance to build it until after I move houses in a few weeks but I'm looking forward to getting this in the air. It is much bigger and faster than what I have flown before so it will be interesting. I'm impressed with how small it breaks down to with the wings off. It should work pretty well for a hike and fly rig.

mashed fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Nov 15, 2014

# ? Nov 15, 2014 05:42

Golluk: Oct 22, 2008

drat, that Inspire drone is sexy looking. I cringe to imagine its cost though.

Second attempt at flying the Assassin was more successful. I'm going to attribute it to actually mounting the prop properly in the correct direction (it was pushing correctly, but spinning backwards). Also seems to require a lot of reflex (up elevator trim). But got it flying around in circles and figure 8s, and a few nice landings. Even took the not so nice landings like a champ.

I think I'm cheating myself with flight stabilizers though. The wing is relying on it heavily to fly at the moment, and starts to oscillate past 50% throttle speeds. I'll trim it out and fly manual during the day later (wing edge lights, doing maidens at night :smug:

# ? Nov 15, 2014 05:44

mashed: Jul 27, 2004

Golluk posted:

drat, that Inspire drone is sexy looking. I cringe to imagine its cost though.

Second attempt at flying the Assassin was more successful. I'm going to attribute it to actually mounting the prop properly in the correct direction (it was pushing correctly, but spinning backwards). Also seems to require a lot of reflex (up elevator trim). But got it flying around in circles and figure 8s, and a few nice landings. Even took the not so nice landings like a champ.

I think I'm cheating myself with flight stabilizers though. The wing is relying on it heavily to fly at the moment, and starts to oscillate past 50% throttle speeds. I'll trim it out and fly manual during the day later (wing edge lights, doing maidens at night ).

All flying wings need reflex to some degree. If the handling is mushy and you need tons of it your cg might be a little too far forward though.

That inspire drone is an impressive bit of tech and seeing it comes with a built in lightbridge and 4k camera it isn't even that overpriced. A gopro 4 black and lightbridge would set you back ~$2k and you don't have the gimbal,radio or quad to carry them yet.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 05:51

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

Inspire looks cool as hell, but at 2.5x the price of a Vision+ through my favorite local dealer, I'm going to have to pass for a while.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 07:02

i own every Bionicle: Oct 23, 2005; cstm ttle? kthxbye

Golluk posted:

drat, that Inspire drone is sexy looking. I cringe to imagine its cost though.

Second attempt at flying the Assassin was more successful. I'm going to attribute it to actually mounting the prop properly in the correct direction (it was pushing correctly, but spinning backwards). Also seems to require a lot of reflex (up elevator trim). But got it flying around in circles and figure 8s, and a few nice landings. Even took the not so nice landings like a champ.

I think I'm cheating myself with flight stabilizers though. The wing is relying on it heavily to fly at the moment, and starts to oscillate past 50% throttle speeds. I'll trim it out and fly manual during the day later (wing edge lights, doing maidens at night ).

Are you running the Naze? Is the TPA term available, and if so, have you played with it? TPA reduces the gains as you increase throttle. It's a huge help for mini multirotors and I assume it would also work great for oscillating wings at higher throttle settings. It's in the PID tab of baseflight, set it to something like .6 and then reduce it as much as you can without the oscillations coming back.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 15:24

Golluk: Oct 22, 2008

Wojcigitty posted:

Are you running the Naze? Is the TPA term available, and if so, have you played with it? TPA reduces the gains as you increase throttle. It's a huge help for mini multirotors and I assume it would also work great for oscillating wings at higher throttle settings. It's in the PID tab of baseflight, set it to something like .6 and then reduce it as much as you can without the oscillations coming back.

I'm only running a Acro Naze32 on my Bix3. The Assassin has a Lemon-Rx 7-ch with built in stabilizer. I'll try reducing the gains a bit, but I think the real issue is the Rx itself isn't mounted very securely.

I checked the CG, but if anything it seems a bit too far back. Its within 1-2mm of the wing spar, which is the recommended 6.5" back. Though it does mostly nose dive when thrown without throttle. The elevons up about a half inch seems to be where it flies level, which I think is about the right mount. Still plenty agile and fast for me.

Also have a slight issue with the props. I'm using a prop saver, which doesn't hold in the little shaft size adapter at all. A bit of CA glue is holding it in currently.

Golluk fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Nov 15, 2014

# ? Nov 15, 2014 19:06

i own every Bionicle: Oct 23, 2005; cstm ttle? kthxbye

Golluk posted:

I'm only running a Acro Naze32 on my Bix3. The Assassin has a Lemon-Rx 7-ch with built in stabilizer. I'll try reducing the gains a bit, but I think the real issue is the Rx itself isn't mounted very securely.

I checked the CG, but if anything it seems a bit too far back. Its within 1-2mm of the wing spar, which is the recommended 6.5" back. Though it does mostly nose dive when thrown without throttle. The elevons up about a half inch seems to be where it flies level, which I think is about the right mount. Still plenty agile and fast for me.

Also have a slight issue with the props. I'm using a prop saver, which doesn't hold in the little shaft size adapter at all. A bit of CA glue is holding it in currently.

I played with the Lemon on a few 3D planes and it was always a game to keep it from shaking at higher speeds. The master gain can also be adjusted on Aux 3, so you might be able to add a mix for throttle -> aux 3 to get rid of the shakes.

# ? Nov 15, 2014 20:20

PirateDentist: Mar 28, 2006; Sailing The Seven Seas Searching For Scurvy

I picked up a Blade Nano QX RTF today as I'd really like to eventually get into a bigger FPV setup. I figure I should learn on something cheap then work my way up.

First few rounds were mostly figuring out how to hover vertically, let alone keeping it from breezing around wherever it wanted. 4 batteries later I feel I have some input on where it decides to wander, some crashes but nothing terrible. After dinner I popped in a fresh battery and the drat thing has lost its mind. Lost its binding, IF I can get it to rebind the front rotors are at 100%, pulling the right stick down and to the right stops them. If I pull the battery it loses binding again.

It also seemed to be touchy at 0 throttle as well right out of the box. If the transmitter was jostled or you pulled down on the throttle when it was at 0 the front rotors would spin enough to flip it or scoot it over.

Did I somehow break the drat thing in a matter of 3 hours or did I get a dud?

# ? Nov 17, 2014 06:42

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

I don't have a blade nano, but does it have an expert or aerobatic mode you may have inadvertently engaged? I am not sure how they bind but I am pretty sure my X4 and proto binds each power up.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 06:55

deong: Jun 13, 2001; I'll see you in heck!

Pretty sure the blade nano sets it's gyros (maybe wrong part) to zero at power on. So once you pop the battery in make sure you lay it level ASAP. Other wise it will power the motors like your saying trying to hold whatever angle you had it at.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 07:59

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# ? May 19, 2024 19:05

PirateDentist: Mar 28, 2006; Sailing The Seven Seas Searching For Scurvy

slidebite posted:

I don't have a blade nano, but does it have an expert or aerobatic mode you may have inadvertently engaged? I am not sure how they bind but I am pretty sure my X4 and proto binds each power up.

According to the manual it resets to "easy" mode each time the transmitter powers on.

deong posted:

Pretty sure the blade nano sets it's gyros (maybe wrong part) to zero at power on. So once you pop the battery in make sure you lay it level ASAP. Other wise it will power the motors like your saying trying to hold whatever angle you had it at.

I've tried plugging the battery in while it sits on a flat level surface and not moving it at all. I'll try messing with it once more later today then call the support line if it's still not working.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 13:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > RC aerial vehicles: because we don't have flying brooms

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