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This was sighted off the coast of Norway yesterday.  Norwegian news sources believe it is a new Russian fighter-bomber, the Su-34 http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/forsvaret/her-flyr-russlands-nye-superfly-langs-norskekysten/a/23333831/ quote:They are taken off the coast of Finnmark 29th October and close-ups of the Russian Air Force's new pride has not been published before VG got access to them today.
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Nov 12, 2014 12:43
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I somehow have managed to miss those comments by Markov when he originally made them so I had a look.quote:“Finland should think of the consequences, if it ponders joining NATO. It must ask could joining start World War III? Anti-Semitism started World War II. Russophobia can start a third world war. Finland is one of the most Russophobic countries in Europe, after Sweden, Poland and the Baltic countries,” said Markov in interviews with Swedish and Finnish media. I mean, drat if I don't love the logic here. Sweden is one of the most Russophobic countries in Europe because... Carl Bildt strongly condemned Russia's annexation of Crimea? That is probably it. And then there is comparing this supposed Russophobia to Nazi Anti-Semitism which is incredible in so many ways. It looks like Putin assigns the more outlandish and outrageous things to say to his subordinates. They are usually the ones that bring the WW3 talk. Ah, hell.
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Nov 12, 2014 14:07
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That's a nice arctic 'claim' you have there, Finland. Would be a shame if someone were to conduct a bombing campaign on your population centers should you not reconsider this 'claim' of yours.
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Nov 12, 2014 14:17
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Russians pretending that they consider antisemitism a bad thing is pretty funny.
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Nov 12, 2014 14:20
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OhYeah posted:It was reported by http://www.aftonbladet.se/, I don't think they have an English version. http://www.svt.se/nyheter/varlden/estland-och-lettland-ska-vara-radda-for-oss SVT, not Aftonbladet. In Swedish and Russian. Google translate does a pretty good job of it but it's basically nothing. Cake Smashing Boob fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 14:23
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:That's a nice arctic 'claim' you have there, Finland. Would be a shame if someone were to conduct a bombing campaign on your population centers should you not reconsider this 'claim' of yours. Norway is the one with claims on the Arctic.
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Nov 12, 2014 14:29
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Russian uniformed troops have entered ukraine.
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Nov 12, 2014 15:12
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Russian uniformed troops have entered ukraine. Source on this? Any more details?
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Nov 12, 2014 15:14
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30025138
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Nov 12, 2014 15:16
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Russian uniformed troops have entered ukraine. No they haven't. The Russian Ministry of Defense says there neither has been nor isn't any evidence of it. Elsewhere, black continues to be white. e: That's not a tank nor is it even a photo. You haven't even provided a link. What is this western nonsense, emptyposting just to blame Russia!! Valiantman fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 15:48
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Just looking forward to the day we can finally close the border to russia.
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Nov 12, 2014 15:49
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Just looking forward to the day we can finally close the border to russia. That'd certainly make The Great Wall of China look like a Pickett fence.
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Nov 12, 2014 15:50
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I'm confident that the new border crossing would consist of nothing but a sign that says, "please don't cross, mkay?" Also, what's the point of fighting a proxy war if you can't even win?
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Nov 12, 2014 15:56
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Oh go on! An another invisible invasion?   Chelyabinsk meteorite. 10 seconds flight - dozens shots with D-Cams, smartphones, mobiles.  Russian army. Six months invasions, no one ever seen.
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Nov 12, 2014 15:59
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TeodorMorozov posted:no one ever seen. I have pretty strong glasses. Wanna borrow? They've only been seen by the Ukranians, the OSCE observers, NATO, every Crimean citizen bothering to look out of the window AND the East Ukranian rebels. Only ones who haven't seen anything are the Russians themselves, except for those who have posted about themselves in VK and other social media. Valiantman fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 16:08
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I don't think those are actually uniformed as Russian army. Putin stopping pretending to be uninvolved would be news. More columns of equipment crossing the birder driven by "volunteers" has been going on for a while, though the amount has likely gone up a great deal over last week --- though some of that may be movement from Luhansk to Donetsk, too.
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Nov 12, 2014 16:45
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OddObserver posted:I don't think those are actually uniformed as Russian army. Putin stopping pretending to be uninvolved would be news. More columns of equipment crossing the birder driven by "volunteers" has been going on for a while, though the amount has likely gone up a great deal over last week --- though some of that may be movement from Luhansk to Donetsk, too. How does the 'volunteer' sham even work? Is there no concept of AWOL or does he prefer people to think he has no control of his soldiers? With or without the 'volunteer' schtick the administration is complicit. Of course chances are likely they only analyzed the lie for a second before putting it on a press release.
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Nov 12, 2014 16:49
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Sorry to left-field this question so hard, but anyone care to share their experiences regarding LGBT issues in Eastern Europe? I know Estonia just legalized same-sex marriage there, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share the general atmosphere they experience on a more personal level (interactions with family, what your families thing about LGBT issues, etc)? MightyPeon, if you could contribute I'd be interested to hear from you as well. That or anyone with family in Russia.
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Nov 12, 2014 16:55
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My question is how Russia says with a straight face that the people are just 'volunteers' when they're crossing the border in Russian armour. I'm just guessing, but I'm willing to bet that most countries wouldn't be all that happy about their soldiers 'borrowing' a tank for their vacation abroad.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:17
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Gorau posted:My question is how Russia says with a straight face that the people are just 'volunteers' when they're crossing the border in Russian armour. I'm just guessing, but I'm willing to bet that most countries wouldn't be all that happy about their soldiers 'borrowing' a tank for their vacation abroad. Right? Bill Murray had to drag Harold Ramis kicking and screaming just to go to Czechoslovakia.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:18
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I'm sure that russia wouldn't mind the whole area being daisy cuttered by stealth bombers. After all, what pilots do on their free time is noones business.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:21
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TeodorMorozov posted:Actually your anonymity is not so big weakness that can be found in your so called investigation. How much crowbar antifreeze did you drink before you wrote this post? Everyone here knows BM's real life identity, and he has made multiple media appearances.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:47
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Gorau posted:My question is how Russia says with a straight face that the people are just 'volunteers' when they're crossing the border in Russian armour. I'm just guessing, but I'm willing to bet that most countries wouldn't be all that happy about their soldiers 'borrowing' a tank for their vacation abroad. What can I say? Roads, really poor in It happens, nothing to be done! 
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Nov 12, 2014 17:57
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TeodorMorozov posted:Six months invasions, no one ever seen. 
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Nov 12, 2014 18:25
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Fabulous Knight posted:I somehow have managed to miss those comments by Markov when he originally made them so I had a look. They're cribbing off of Israel's notes. Criticize the actions of Russia? Congrats! You're actually just racist.
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Nov 12, 2014 18:25
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Gorau posted:My question is how Russia says with a straight face that the people are just 'volunteers' when they're crossing the border in Russian armour. I'm just guessing, but I'm willing to bet that most countries wouldn't be all that happy about their soldiers 'borrowing' a tank for their vacation abroad. Well, they are claiming it's not actually Russian armor, but captured stuff. Which led to a hilarious situation when the rebels showed one tank they actually did capture, and it turned out it was a 2013 and on Russia-only never exported variant of T-72 which the Ukrainian army captured earlier and had to abandon due to damage. What lets them do it is that very few people have actually seen the vehicles cross. (Hardly surprising since the press likes places like Donetsk rather than some fields in the middle of nowhere). People mostly see convoys of equipment with hastily painted over markings in Russia heading towards Ukrainian border, then similar-looking convoys with similarly crude paintjobs accross the border. Putting that with lots of tanks and cannons suddenly materializing makes what's going on pretty clear --- but not absolutely indisputable, which is rather convenient for politicians trying to pretend nothing is happening. Is it any wonder that Russia blocked OSCE doing any sort of monitoring of more than a couple of km of the border?
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Nov 12, 2014 18:45
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Russia is apparently restarting long-range bombing flights to such glorious locales as the Gulf of Mexico  They must be feeling desperate for some reason, since they seem to want to ramp up the same Cold War that bankrupted and wracked their country 30 years ago. And that was when they could still plunder and loot the economies of east europe, including Germany. OddObserver posted:What lets them do it is that very few people have actually seen the vehicles cross. This isn't even true. Locals, western journalists, the OSCE - they've all been pretty drat good about saying "hey we just watched russian armor cross the border into Ukraine" repeatedly. These reports of russian troop movement aren't all NATO satellite intelligence, there's a lot of on-the-ground civilian reporting verifying things. What lets them do it that Don Putin has nukes and we would rather drive his country into the ground so that he gets ousted by a coup, rather than risk a shooting war where east europe ends up radioactive. Cuntpunch fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 18:47
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Cuntpunch posted:And that was when they could still plunder and loot the economies of east europe, including Germany. I don't know if I really feel that bad for them looting Eastern Germany, Romania and Hungary.
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Nov 12, 2014 18:53
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Dreissi posted:Sorry to left-field this question so hard, but anyone care to share their experiences regarding LGBT issues in Eastern Europe? I know Estonia just legalized same-sex marriage there, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share the general atmosphere they experience on a more personal level (interactions with family, what your families thing about LGBT issues, etc)? Mightypeon is German, there are actual people from most Eastern Europe countries posting in this thread. In Russia it is atrocious and depressing on the media/political level and people love being self-righteous medieval shits about anything LGBT-related on the Internet and in public conversations. On the personal level, it varies. People in bigger cities mostly know when to mind their business and don't bother adults about their sexuality (as long as they don't "make the straight people uncomfortable"), but when it comes to teenagers it is a horrorshow with "curing the gay", arranged rapes and the non-stop educational harrasment from concerned citizens.
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Nov 12, 2014 18:55
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fatherboxx posted:Mightypeon is German, there are actual people from most Eastern Europe countries posting in this thread. I actually recall being over in Moscow for a semester abroad. A male student had befriended our int'l group some weeks before, basically started asking questions like "what if men liked men" or something. Basically was probing us because he didn't seem to have much knowledge about homosexuality, and basically started coming to terms with it himself. Now with these weird anti-homo crusades, hope the dude's still doing ok.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:02
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BBC posted:A Reuters reporter captured armed men and military vehicles near a checkpoint in Donetsk on Wednesday  even Hemingway and Pyle would be scared of working with this guy
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Nov 12, 2014 19:07
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Ardennes posted:I don't know if I really feel that bad for them looting Eastern Germany, Romania and Hungary. I don't think they did that except in the immediate post-war period. If anything, they subsidised their puppet states with cheaper-than-world-market-price oil and gas. Googling returned a 1988 Rand note on Soviet economic policy towards Eastern Europe: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/notes/2007/N2861.pdf
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Nov 12, 2014 19:12
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TeodorMorozov posted:Actually your anonymity is not so big weakness that can be found in your so called investigation. He's been on tv?
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Nov 12, 2014 19:14
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Kopijeger posted:I don't think they did that except in the immediate post-war period. If anything, they subsidised their puppet states with cheaper-than-world-market-price oil and gas. Yeah I know, but I wanted to make a point. Yes, if anything the some of the Soviet leadership were rather pissed they were trading away their energy resources when they actually wanted to built up their manufacturing of consumer goods and technology.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:21
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Dreissi posted:Sorry to left-field this question so hard, but anyone care to share their experiences regarding LGBT issues in Eastern Europe? I know Estonia just legalized same-sex marriage there, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share the general atmosphere they experience on a more personal level (interactions with family, what your families thing about LGBT issues, etc)? I can't speak for other countries and I'm straight, but I'll try: here in Poland it's basically a massively divisive wedge issue, surprisingly similar to attitudes in the States. Generally, views on LGBT rights map pretty well to the liberal/conservative and secular/religious divides, although skewed slightly towards the "against" side (virtually no conservatives are pro-LGBT, but some moderates and liberals are anti). The hardcore religious crowd is usually quite homophobic and buy into the "homopropaganda threatening family values" moral panic, with rhetoric ironically similar to that in Russia. In terms of specific issues, civil unions are considered the moderate policy and have the support of a substantial minority of the population, with polls in the past few years putting it at anywhere from 32% to 45%. Involving the word "marriage" or adoption are considered radical positions and have extremely low support. OTOH, there's a gay MP and a transgender MP, and civil unions were considered by the Sejm and unfortunately rejected. The conservative side has also failed to push through any "defense of the family" or "gay propaganda" discriminatory legislation, so the issue is very much still up for debate and the political process. Pride parades (known here as "Equality Parades" because the term Pride is considered loaded) involving thousands of people take place every year in Warsaw, and recently have generally occurred without incident, although a few years before, attacks by far-right thugs were a given. Social attitudes fall all over the spectrum, and if anything are becoming notably polarized. In my circles (your typical ~liberal young urban educated~ types), nobody really bats an eye, while in religious rural communities or working-class subcultures like football hooligans, homosexuality can mean anything from mild social rejection to probable violence. A lot of gay people only come out to their friends while concealing it from neighbors, employers, casual acquaintances etc. until they can be sure they won't encounter discrimination. From talking to gay friends, I've learned that public displays of affection are very much off the table for them because there are enough homophobes it's guaranteed to get some death stares, rude comments etc. Outright virulent homophobia isn't a very pervasive social attitude, but the casual "I have nothing against gay people, live and let live, gaybashing is bad, but they shouldn't have parades or demand rights" is probably the most common sentiment you might encounter. Then again, this kind of "South Park centrism" is really popular on a lot of issues anyway.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:24
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Nenonen posted:
I think it means "captured this photograph" or "captured this scene". Hah
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Nov 12, 2014 19:44
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fatherboxx posted:Mightypeon is German, there are actual people from most Eastern Europe countries posting in this thread. 1. I know they are German, but I believe their family is Russian? I was just curious what kind of interactions they've had with them regarding LGBT stuff, if any. Mostly asked because I know how awful the macro-level stuff is for LGBT in Russia, and I didn't want to ask TeodorMorozov to comment because he is a big dummy. 2. And I know there are people from Eastern Europe here, thats why I asked the question (to get a personal perspective about how their family / other people they know see the LGBT stuff). If I remember correctly there are a few Serbians, Polish, and Romanian folks here. 3. I guess I wasn't entirely clear with my original post. I know you can find a lot even just looking at the LGBT Issues in Country X wikipedia articles, but I was just curious to hear about people's personal experiences with their family / friends. Sorry if this is out of bounds for the thread or anything, and if so I'll drop it.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:52
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Dreissi posted:Sorry to left-field this question so hard, but anyone care to share their experiences regarding LGBT issues in Eastern Europe? I know Estonia just legalized same-sex marriage there, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share the general atmosphere they experience on a more personal level (interactions with family, what your families thing about LGBT issues, etc)? Less facetiously, I'm almost entirely closeted, only out to my mother and a couple of friends, so I haven't been a target of direct violence or discrimination (yet). Still, it's a lovely life that made me depressed, anxious and angry at all times. I would have left years ago if this depression haven't undermined my self-esteem, including my faith in my professional abilities, to the point where trying to land a job abroad and emigrate always seemed impossible. Basically, if you are LGBT person in Russia you should try to leave, otherwise there's no future for you here. Nothing is going to get better and there's nothing else is to be done.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:04
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Kopijeger posted:I don't think they did that except in the immediate post-war period. If anything, they subsidised their puppet states with cheaper-than-world-market-price oil and gas. Here in Latvia the calculations were made regarding this, and it was concluded that the occupation under Soviet Union caused total loses of about 300 billion euro (GDP of Latvia was about 30 billion last year). Some of this sum was made by lost people lives during repressions, army recruiting etc. But a major part of this sum was due to ruined industry. Before ww2 Latvian factories were technologically way more advanced than in Soviet Union. After the occupation this advantage was lost. And many of the existing factories were producing products for military needs, so local people never saw any gain from them.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:21
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Dreissi posted:Sorry to left-field this question so hard, but anyone care to share their experiences regarding LGBT issues in Eastern Europe? I know Estonia just legalized same-sex marriage there, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share the general atmosphere they experience on a more personal level (interactions with family, what your families thing about LGBT issues, etc)? Lithuania is basically the same as what has been posted above. On a social level the older generation is very homophobic (my grandma told me homosexuality is propagandized by the jews with the goal of softly reducing the world's overpopulation - thanks Russian conspiracy theory spreading state channels) while the younger generation is very divided, with about half indifferent or pro-LGBT and about half - traditional and homophobic. I'm a closeted bisexual and some friends I've told were either intrigued or indifferent. What makes us a bit different on a political level is that we have a law banning the propaganda of homosexuality (it's called the child protection law) and so far it has been used to ban a children's story book about which has a story about two princesses, a clip by the Lithuanian Gay League where they mention untraditional families, and a music clip where some dude metaphorically talks about killing children, because obviously he is propagandizing killing children. Our politicians allow LGBT rights marches and generally play nice because they don't want trouble with Western Europe. I don't know anything about the transgender situation.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:24
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