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Lottery of Babylon posted:Invasion is probably the start of modern block design. It's where they start picking and choosing mechanics because they work together (invasion and kicker work with the multicolor theme by rewarding multiple colors but not being useless with only one), and it's where they start making the sets within the block distinct (Apocalypse switching from ally colors to enemies) while still feeling connected. As Killing a Goldfish says, it's not just that its power level was low. Kamigawa was underpowered compared to Mirrodin, but was still fun in limited and block constructed. The problem is that all its powerful cards and all its mechanics are designed to he the exact opposite of fun.
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Nov 12, 2014 10:29
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As a new player who wants more cars and doesn't mind the lottery of boosters? Would I be better off buying Core 15 or Khans boosters? (Or even one of the earlier sets if that would be better). Running Red/Black as my main deck at the moment, have the Core 15 Deck Builder's Toolkit.
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Nov 12, 2014 12:55
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Well, it depends on how you play. If you're just playing kitchen table Magic, just go with whatever set seems cooler to you. If you want to focus on Red/Black, you might like M15 more because Tarkir is more about 3-color combinations. If you play Standard Constructed, you should probably buy Tarkir, as it will be standard legal for a bit longer than M15. At least, I think (they're restructuring standard rotation rules, I can't remember how it works now). But, really, if you're just going to be ripping open packs, you might as well be drafting.
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Nov 12, 2014 13:09
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The worst part of drafting Masques block was it meant you had to open and willingly take cards from Prophecy.
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Nov 12, 2014 13:10
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Chorocojo posted:The worst part of drafting Masques block was it meant you had to open and willingly take cards from Prophecy. Not really, most decks are hardly improved by the third pack outside of two or three cards. So many drafts ended with 20 playables in all the colors. What a bad draft format. The mixed packs online were even worse, since every pack had a chance of just being completely dead.
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Nov 12, 2014 13:33
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Dungeon Ecology posted:Well, it depends on how you play. If you're just playing kitchen table Magic, just go with whatever set seems cooler to you. If you want to focus on Red/Black, you might like M15 more because Tarkir is more about 3-color combinations. Yeah I'm just playing with friends at the moment so I don't need to worry about which blocks are legal and such. I might go with M15 as I'm enjoying 2-colour decks at the moment.
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Nov 12, 2014 13:58
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Nova88 posted:Yeah I'm just playing with friends at the moment so I don't need to worry about which blocks are legal and such. I might go with M15 as I'm enjoying 2-colour decks at the moment. If you don't care about standard legality, the Return to Ravnica block (two blocks ago) has a strong two color theme and some really sick red/black stuff in it.
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Nov 12, 2014 16:18
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I Love You! posted:OK after spending some more time with UW heroic and finally starting to iron our some glaring play errors I have with that deck (not using Gods Willing to protect creatures from Bile Blight or then remembering to do that but forgetting to use them to dodge blockers, holy poo poo I am bad at using that specific card) I would like to report that the deck is Real loving Good. Def been playing it a lot lately and it's the deck I am playing at the iq this weekend. Just a heads up, Eidolon is better than leader even if you want to stick with 21 lands. I am moving an extra ordeal of Heliod in my board for one of the trailblazers as well. Seems to make the sligh matchup more consistent when you probably won't get much blocking in anyway.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:21
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The announcement that they made during the Vintage Super League yesterday was the Magic Online Holiday Festival. It's Vintage events, Holiday Cube drafts, and Flashback queues. There is also a chance to earn Power if you don't have any by going 4-0 in a Legacy Daily to qualify and then being one of the top three finishers without Power in the Vintage Championship.
Applebees fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 17:42
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Sweet. I love Cube so loving much.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:52
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Applebees posted:The announcement that they made during the Vintage Super League yesterday was the Magic Online Holiday Festival. It's Vintage events, Holiday Cube drafts, and Flashback queues. There is also a chance to earn Power if you don't have any by going 4-0 in a Legacy Daily to qualify and then being one of the top three finishers without Power in the Vintage Championship. Welp, guess it's time to bite the bullet an build dredge on MODO.
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Nov 12, 2014 18:29
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Is Sage of Hours playable in U/W devotion?
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Nov 12, 2014 18:42
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Lancelot posted:Is Sage of Hours playable in U/W devotion? I doubt it. You have to get 5 +1/+1 counters on it to be worth anything. Until then you are paying 2 mana for a 1/1 pretty much.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:01
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Nova88 posted:Yeah I'm just playing with friends at the moment so I don't need to worry about which blocks are legal and such. I might go with M15 as I'm enjoying 2-colour decks at the moment. Get your friends together for a draft. You want a group of 4, 6, or 8 people. Buy a box (Khans or Theros block gently caress core sets). Everyone pitch in 10 bucks and start with 3 packs. Now you get the lottery but also have a shitton of fun instead of just pointless opening of packs. Do a rare redraft based on record to incentivize winning. Drink beers and have an awesome time. Lancelot posted:Is Sage of Hours playable in U/W devotion? No. There is no reason you would ever want to push for the time walk when you could just kill the other person while drawing a ton of cards. Trust me, unless the entire build shifts directions this card has no place in UW heroic. I Love You! fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 19:04
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And then once you do get to 5 counters you have to take them all off for your free turn.  Maybe some genius has made it work with Phalanx Leader or Hardened Scales (I know, not UW) or something, but in my dumb UW Heroic Deck from last year it was pretty useless when I tried it.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:05
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Also I just want to mention that I am going to be grinding the gently caress out of cube to earn Vintage Masters packs to hopefully break into vintage (lol power9 lol) and generally consider my cube play to be my best format so if people are interested in getting into cube I'd be happy to stream the gently caress out of it and give advice. By the way this is a new cube they're running so I'll probably suck like everyone else at the start, whee
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Nov 12, 2014 19:08
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I Love You! posted:Also I just want to mention that I am going to be grinding the gently caress out of cube to earn Vintage Masters packs to hopefully break into vintage (lol power9 lol) and generally consider my cube play to be my best format so if people are interested in getting into cube I'd be happy to stream the gently caress out of it and give advice. I'm totally down for this. When does it start? EDIT: Your streaming, obvs, not the event itself. DAD LOST MY IPOD fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 19:10
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I Love You! posted:Also I just want to mention that I am going to be grinding the gently caress out of cube to earn Vintage Masters packs to hopefully break into vintage (lol power9 lol) and generally consider my cube play to be my best format so if people are interested in getting into cube I'd be happy to stream the gently caress out of it and give advice. I've never touched MTGO. After installing it, how quickly can I get to cubing? That's literally the only reason I'd play MTGO. VV: Pay tickets? Do I start with some? I don't mind dropping a bit of cash to get started, but I fear I'll be horrible and not be able to support it. 
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Nov 12, 2014 19:10
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Serperoth posted:I've never touched MTGO. After installing it, how quickly can I get to cubing? That's literally the only reason I'd play MTGO. Immediately. You have to pay tickets for your first cube draft, but it's relatively easy to go infinite with phantom points. You can't make a cube of your own, though.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:17
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Chorocojo posted:The worst part of drafting Masques block was it meant you had to open and willingly take cards from Prophecy.  I should buy up a copy of that cycle just to have. what'll that run me, maybe a dollar?
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Nov 12, 2014 19:19
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Lancelot posted:Is Sage of Hours playable in U/W devotion? Sage of Hours is a card that exists for the purpose of either challenging you to break it or to satisfy casual-boners for extra turns. The funny part about Time Walk is that in the only format its legal in its not that game breaking (until it is, of course). A lot of people would be surprised how often in Vintage games Time Walk doesn't do anything beyond drawing a card and untapping. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 19:21
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I'm totally down for this. When does it start? Well, I thought it started today but it actually begins next Wednesday. So now I'm super sad In terms of sustainable cubing: Yes you would have to make an initial investment, and probably occasionally over time if you are decent but not great. If I'm doing swiss cubes I tend to average 2-1 and 3-0 every cube, and a 2-1 finish does give you enough phantom points to cube again. The problem is if you average less than that because you'll have to drop like 8-10 bucks to reload at times, which can add up if you consistently 1-2 (You'll get something like 2/3 the phantom points you need with a 1-2 finish to cube again, but you can't buy phantom points, so you just have to bank them and buy a "regular" entry into a cube to reload at times like that. I've gone entire cube seasons playing on the reg without having to pay a dime to do so, but your mileage will vary. Also the cube is not available all the time. Like right now, no cube. In a week? Glorious times. I Love You! fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 19:23
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Angry Grimace posted:Sage of Hours is a card that exists for the purpose of either challenging you to break it or to satisfy casual-boners for extra turns. Yeah I've tried putting it in my Memnarch deck that likes taking extra turns, but there are too many hoops to jump through to reliably get that many counters. I can do it with Steel Overseer, Liquimetal Coating/Mycosynth Lattice, and Clock of Omens, but if I have most of those pieces I'm probably going infinite and stealing every one of your permanents with Memnarch in the first place so what's the point? It's the kind of card that appeals to my heavily Johnny nature, but this time it just can't be broken.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:26
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Yawgmoth posted:The first rare I got when actually buying my own cards was a Vitalizing Wind, gently caress you! People might actually give you money to take those cards off their hands 
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Nov 12, 2014 19:26
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I Love You! posted:Also I just want to mention that I am going to be grinding the gently caress out of cube to earn Vintage Masters packs to hopefully break into vintage (lol power9 lol) and generally consider my cube play to be my best format so if people are interested in getting into cube I'd be happy to stream the gently caress out of it and give advice. I think they made a big mistake making the Power 9 as rare as it is. I probably spent a thousand dollars on various VMA drafts, sealed, etc. and I opened one Ancestral Recall and one Black Lotus. Applebees posted:The announcement that they made during the Vintage Super League yesterday was the Magic Online Holiday Festival. It's Vintage events, Holiday Cube drafts, and Flashback queues. There is also a chance to earn Power if you don't have any by going 4-0 in a Legacy Daily to qualify and then being one of the top three finishers without Power in the Vintage Championship. So basically the highest placing Dredge player gets the Power Nine. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 19:28
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The main problem I have with Sage of the hours is that attacking with a 6/6+ is probably a surer route to victory most of the time than taking extra turns with a 1/1. I wonder how many games have been lost by people gleefully removing all the counters to take an extra turn and then not being able to do anything substantial on that turn with their 1/1 when they could have won by just attacking every turn with their giant dude. If you're not doing an infinite combo it's rarely going to be worth it, and the infinite combos are all dumb ultra-durdle fests that need like 4 cards.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:31
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Angry Grimace posted:I think they made a big mistake making the Power 9 as rare as it is. I probably spent a thousand dollars on various VMA drafts, sealed, etc. and I opened one Ancestral Recall and one Black Lotus. They got you to spend $1000 on it (  ) and you're saying they did it wrong? Sounds like they did it right to me.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:33
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Entropic posted:They got you to spend $1000 on it ( In retrospect they hosed me pretty good financially (granted, this was over the entire release period, so many months of a draft or two on weekends), but it hasn't been particularly good at encouraging active play in Vintage Constructed, which was part of the design intent. Vintage is the most fun you can have in Magic doing broken poo poo, but ever since they stopped awarding VMA packs they haven't fired much, if at all.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:48
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Oh man, did you think modern masters was also done to encourage people to play modern? The only mistake there was not making more packs that people happily bought for $7 each lol, but maybe next year!
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Nov 12, 2014 19:54
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Chill la Chill posted:Oh man, did you think modern masters was also done to encourage people to play modern? The only mistake there was not making more packs that people happily bought for Fixed that for you.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:59
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So thoughts on the Legacy Cube since no one asked: I fully support the goals of the design team on this cube, and like it as the "more common" cube in terms of being available a larger portion of the year. But here are some things that make me sad: 1. Swords have been cut. YAY! Jitte has not. What? 2. Tangle Wire still in. Smokestack cut. Boo. Braids cut. HUGE loving BOO. Control is already overdrafted in cube, removing Stax while nerfing mono red just makes this even more appealing. Play midrange value or control or get rekd. 3. Too many multicolor cards by a bit, though the ones they picked are good. Cube is about options, multicolor is about restricting options. There will be a lot of dreck in this cube since a lot of cards will simply be unappealing to the entire table. 4. No Mimic Vat is a very strange omission since in a world without as much Mono-Red and Stax it would be a cornerstone of creature-based strats. Instead I guess you have to go uh... hm. No pod either. I guess it's down to just Venser for a recurring flicker mechanic, which is kind of lovely. 5. Blue is losing basically nothing of import from other cube formats. They have intentionally picked apart "narrow" strats like stax and pod/vat/flicker midrange and red aggro, but left hard control completely alone. I don't understand this at all. 6. Vedalken Shackles. What. 7. Basically every planeswalker ever is in this cube. I guess that was their main strategy in design, cram in every walker and try to make them playable. Overall thoughts: They seem to be pushing midrange and control (???) but the main fear I have is that control tends to beat up on midrange in cube pretty bad IF control doesn't have to worry about certain aggro/lockdown strats such as stax and mono-Red. As they have removed primary stax elements and nerfed aggro as well as making mono-colored strats as hard as possible to run due to card choice AND pushing gold cards, control should have plenty of time to come online. On top of that, there are very few solid creature recursion/ETB abuse engines compared to prior cubes, with Pod and Vat being the most notable omissions that previously allowed midrangy decks to grind out wins vs. control. Finally, the massive glut of walkers in this cube really support playing a deck that keeps the board clear and tries to win off a single (or small handful) of threats. I expect at least 2-3 players in any cube to be playing superfriends with this list, and maybe more especially since multicolor is being pushed very hard. In terms of viable archtypes I see off the top of my head: 1. Blue/x control. Mono-blue loses nothing in this cube and has the de-facto best card in the pool in Vedalken Shackles (with Jace fighting with Jitte for a close second). On top of that it uses the Moxes well, which bumps them up to near the top of the pick chart. I expect there to be at least 3 blue control players in each pool, possibly more. This isn't much different than in a normal cube, except they should do even better since they have most of the best spells and aren't lacking in pieces like other strats. 2. Reanimator. A risky strat since only 1 person at a table can usually pull it off, but the tools are mostly still there. I wouldn't recommend forcing reanimator unless you are experienced and see a clear opening, and even then it's a high-variance strat. 3. Aggro (white/red mostly). Should still be ok, but WotC's stated goal of reducing mono-colored and aggro strats is a big concern, especially since they left control alone. May have to get a lot luckier than previously with both picks and land drops. 4. Green ramp strats. These will be REALLY bad if blue is as strong as it looks. Don't fall into this trap unless you're pairing it with a blue shell and have some real good control to back it. 5. Red/green stompyburn. This is always a decent strat in cube, eschewing most ramp for must-answer green assholes and faceburn. Might actually get a little better with more multicolor and a more finicky manabase. 6. White/x flicker midrange - probably not going to be much good without things like mimic vat or pod, since these were value engines that could actually beat raw card draw given the right ETB triggers. Still have Resto Angel and both Vensers, so you could build a UW shell and try to get lucky, but without redundancy you're staring at a low chance of getting all that many pieces. Better to just go the ETB + Beatstick route and hope the game doesn't last too long. Might still be good if superfriends is running too rampant. 7. Mono black without Necropotence or Braids. Just kidding, mono black was gutted, go blue instead. The best part is at least half the black cards on their list seem to assume Mono-Black will be a thing but without the two cards that make mono black actually work it's just a bunch of on-curve crap that's hard to play.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:00
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Chill la Chill posted:Oh man, did you think modern masters was also done to encourage people to play modern? The only mistake there was not making more packs that people happily bought for $7 each lol, but maybe next year! God, I can't wait for MM2. I think they're going to have to change the formula, though. MM1 was Mirrodin, Kamigawa, Ravnica, Time Spiral, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, and Alara blocks; if the next one releases in summer 2015 and is Zendikar, Scars of Mirrodin, Innistrad, RTR, Theros and Khans blocks then it'll exactly mirror the first one and get us all caught up. However that would mean no more Goyfs, Bobs, Cliques, Hierarchs or Cryptics. I guess it would be nice to have more Snaps, Lili (but she's a PTQ promo), Karn, Wurmcoil (but that's in C14), Emrakul, Goblin Guide, Birthing Pod, Pyromancer Ascension, Splinter Twin, Linvala and I guess Abrupt Decay. But without Bob, Goyf, Hierarch and Cryptic then a bunch of the top tier archetypes are still going to be out of the price range of most people trying to get into the format. edit golly gee that was a lot of lists. i guess i'm just trying to put my thoughts in order about MM and what impact it'll have on my most favoritest Constructed format. DAD LOST MY IPOD fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 20:02
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:God, I can't wait for MM2. I think they're going to have to change the formula, though. MM1 was Mirrodin, Kamigawa, Ravnica, Time Spiral, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, and Alara blocks; if the next one releases in summer 2015 and is Zendikar, Scars of Mirrodin, Innistrad, RTR, Theros and Khans blocks then it'll exactly mirror the first one and get us all caught up. However that would mean no more Goyfs, Bobs, Cliques, Hierarchs or Cryptics. Why would getting caught up to the present be desirable? If MM2 drops two months after DTK, reprinting cards from DTK in it would be really stupid.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:07
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Chill la Chill posted:Oh man, did you think modern masters was also done to encourage people to play modern? Except like, barely anyone got to play it and it ate up tons of R&D time and made modern more expensive. Huge success! Heck, unlike VMA, they printed so little of it I doubt they made the crazy amount of money they should have. What isn't a huge success by these standards? I guess chronicles. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:God, I can't wait for MM2. I think they're going to have to change the formula, though. Please justify why they would remove the sets that reprinting from is nearly the entire justification for MM's existence in the first place?
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Nov 12, 2014 20:10
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Entropic posted:They got you to spend $1000 on it ( I dropped about $300 to get a lotus and a man drain. I am holding onto my duals to get full value so I feel like I broke even but I stopped drafting/opening packs at the lotus because everything else I can afford to buy.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:11
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Chill la Chill posted:Oh man, did you think modern masters was also done to encourage people to play modern? The only mistake there was not making more packs that people happily bought for $7 each lol, but maybe next year! Modern was already a format that existed. Vintage literally did not exist on MTGO prior to VMA, so I don't think its the same thing. Let me clarify, I don't think I spent $1000 on actual product, I probably opened $1000 in product because I eventually got fairly decent at VMA draft (force white/red tokens). Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 20:14
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Spiderdrake posted:I still really enjoy that article on the mother ship where ol' Aaron let us know that Modern Masters was a "huge success by every metric" or something like that WOTC has different goals and ideas for modern than the players. MMA was likely a big success in their eyes.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:16
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odiv posted:And then once you do get to 5 counters you have to take them all off for your free turn. A guy I know was playing bant sage heroic and managed to turn lock a few people with him, it was hilarious to watch. The additional extra turn for removing 10 counters was actually relevant.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:16
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Ciprian Maricon posted:WOTC has different goals and ideas for modern than the players. MMA was likely a big success in their eyes. What is the goal for modern then?
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Nov 12, 2014 20:24
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Sickening posted:What is the goal for modern then? If I had to wager a guess, its probably to keep people interested enough in playing MTG to keep playing Standard and Limited, the formats where people open packs.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:25
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