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Why is Charleston locked down?
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Nov 12, 2014 23:14
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Everyone believes that it's located near Fort Sumter on Sullivan's Island, which would make it a federal crime to dig for. I counter that even though things were a lot less strict/enforced in 1981 it was still a federal crime, and that means Preiss didn't bury it there. But I can offer no proof (and never will have any) of that. I totally admit that I could just be wishing it to be different. People thought it was on protected land in Roanoake too but it was almost definitely near the Elizabethan Gardens, not on the actual protected park land.
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Nov 12, 2014 23:16
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xie posted:That last part we can definitely agree on. It never recovered and even now you get comedy masterminds coming in here and going "lol i found it guys!" Hey, that's cool. I'm glad you're working on poo poo. I'm glad anyone is! I don't pay attention to any puzzle but Milwaukee, either, really. So really I was just trying to keep you up to date on what we found for MKE in this thread when it was active, but then you brought it up again like no one had seen your first mention, so I was like wtf.
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Nov 12, 2014 23:31
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xie posted:i am not 100% aspergers So what % aspergers are you?
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Nov 12, 2014 23:37
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I don't think I have any kind of autism  If so I'd be much better at this. I don't even keep good notes, and have lost stuff to "oops, I thought I'd be able to Google that again."
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Nov 12, 2014 23:38
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TBH I've always suspected that New York might be some other city (with a Statue of Liberty replica in it, there's a lot of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicas_of_the_Statue_of_Liberty). The fact that they've never been able to find that church outline and it is so distinctive is baffling. And the dress bottom doesn't really look like the shape of Manhattan at all.
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Nov 12, 2014 23:40
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Given that the bird's face looks more like the gargoyles on the Ellis Island Ferry Building than the gargoyles on the Chrysler Building and the spires somewhat resemble it as well from the rear, I've always considered it that rather than a church. But I have a theory for that one which means anything I say is tainted by that. (that's not a joke, I don't think I can be objective about that puzzle)  To me, the first line of the poem is a dual meaning (going with my solution). In the shadow of the gray giant" refers both to standing below Liberty, and also because the solve (in my theory) is on the very very very tip of NJ, with NYC being the gray giant whose shadow you are in. xie fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 23:43
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xie posted:I don't think I have any kind of autism You'd be NBB and you'd have a manifesto
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Nov 12, 2014 23:45
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Well let's hear the theory! And yeah now that I see that it's very clear that's what it is, oh well. Like I said the whole point is to float ideas and see what's what.
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Nov 12, 2014 23:45
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well let's hear the theory! And yeah now that I see that it's very clear that's what it is, oh well. Like I said the whole point is to float ideas and see what's what. He went over it like 3 days ago?
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Nov 13, 2014 00:00
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In the shadow Of the grey giant // This is a dual clue, it gets you to the base of the Statue of Liberty, but it also refers to NJ being in the shadow of NYC. Find the arm that Extends over the slender path // From Liberty Island, the statue's raised arm (with the torch) extends over the Verrazano Narrows bridge. The bridge is on this map and the top little island is Liberty Island (due north of the bridge in the water) https://goo.gl/maps/XU3W3 In summer You'll often hear a whirring sound Cars abound // Take the ferry from Liberty Island to Liberty State Park. The Ferry only runs during the summer, and pulls into the Central Railroad of New Jersey terminal, which doubles as a ferry terminal. Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native // The original name (and this is not obscure) of the Central Railroad of NJ terminal [and of the entire area] is Communipaw Terminal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Railroad_of_New_Jersey_Terminal The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. // I believe this is a dual clue. Washington Irving spent a lot of time visiting Communipaw, and wrote 3 short stories about Communipaw (they're public domain by now, you can find them). In what I believe is a literary in joke, this is also a nod to Irving's unorthodox use of the word 'Hard' in Sleepy Hollow, to mean near/close by. It's completely unneeded to solve the riddle, I think it's just the type of nod a lit nerd like Preiss would use Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more // The hour on the clock in the painting is 11 PM, so 22 steps, or more? These are clearly "on site" walking directions. The Roanoake puzzle contains a reference to the painting, so this is consistent. From the middle of one branch Of the v // No loving clue Look down And see simple roots In rhapsodic man's soil // No loving clue Or gaze north Toward the isle of B. // Others disagree, I don't think I'm being obtuse here... Liberty Island was known as Bedloe's Island until the middle of the last century. There is a cove called North Cove behind the Communipaw/NJ railroad terminal, and if you look at it, you're looking directly at Liberty/Bedloe's island. The image matches involved in this puzzle are (anything I call a match is my own opinion, doesn't mean it's FACT): 1) The clock face on the Railroad Terminal is a match for the clock face in the bottom right most "window" in Painting #12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Railroad_of_New_Jersey_Terminal#mediaviewer/File:USA-NYC-Jersey_Historic_Train_Station_crop.jpg) 2) The gray "window" is the Ellis Island Ferry Terminal as depicted from above. http://media.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/photo/9138388-large.jpg 3) Windows around the side of the Train Terminal resemble the shape of the entirety of Image 12 4) The bird's head resembles the Ellis Island Ferry Building Gargoyles (I would call this a perfect match, this one isn't super up for debate IMO) 5) The "church" in the windows resembles the Ellis Island Ferry Terminal spires (Maybe, I'd want to see them lined up from the right angle). 6) The Woman's dress is shaped like the famous train yard at Communipaw Terminal, and if you flip it horizontally, the location of the droplets of water seems to line up with the location of 3 large landmarks on the rear of the property. There are also obviously abandoned/unused parts of land in the rear. http://i.imgur.com/PlIBRLa.png http://i.imgur.com/yggKR4A.png edit: Basically, while I am far from objective, it would take a LOT for me to think that this area is not connected to the final solve. xie fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 00:07
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I just saw this on the Replicas wiki (I was looking it up before I saw it was posted by someone else): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicas_of_the_Statue_of_Liberty#United_States quote:From 1902 to 2002, visitors to midtown Manhattan were occasionally disoriented by what seemed to be an impossibly nearby view of the statue. They were seeing a 30-foot-high (9.1 m) replica located at 43 West 64th Street atop the Liberty Warehouse.[19][20] In February 2002, the statue was removed by the building's owners to allow the building to be expanded.[21] It was donated to the Brooklyn Museum of Art, which installed it in its sculpture garden in October 2005 with plans to restore it on site in spring of 2006.[22][23] I wonder if Preiss came across the same statue replica? You'd definitely be in the shadows of the grey giant if you were standing in Manhattan. The image is very obviously the face of the Statue of Liberty, but a novice puzzle-maker might think that using the replica might give you something else to work from. Of course, the bird head being part of Ellis Island pretty much wipes that out.
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Nov 13, 2014 00:12
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xie posted:Everyone believes that it's located near Fort Sumter on Sullivan's Island, which would make it a federal crime to dig for. Also, just to back up what xie is saying, the Fort Sumter mask could also just be a city indicator, and not the actual treasure ground. Examples of this being the Chicago Water Tower in Image 5, or the Terminal Building in Image 4 (Cleveland). I know we can offer no proof, but I am doubtful of any legitimate publishing house allowing a book to have a solution which requires the commission of a Federal offense. Granted certain areas have had restrictions tightened throughout the years, but it was still a Federal offense in '81. I don't think the list of out of play casks is as large as Megaman's Jockstrap is proposing. edit: I've been a long time supporter of the Ellis Island clues: xie posted:2) The gray "window" is the Ellis Island Ferry Terminal as depicted from above. http://media.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/photo/9138388-large.jpg Just to help you illustrate these points: 2:  4:  Merlot Brougham fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 00:16
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Merlot Brougham posted:Also, just to back up what xie is saying, the Fort Sumter mask could also just be a city indicator, and not the actual treasure ground. Examples of this being the Chicago Water Tower in Image 5, or the Terminal Building in Image 4 (Cleveland). Agree with this. I think Charleston might still be available. I might have some free time in a few weeks to go down and start wandering around, see if I can make out any of the other clues. I think the "eyes" of the Fort Sumter thing are supposed to be a clue of something you'll see when you're nearby.
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Nov 13, 2014 00:19
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Nocheez, that is exactly what I lost. Along the outside of Washington Square are historical markers. I saw 2 that had EXACTLY those 'eyes' as screws in the corner of the plaques. But I can't find them and didn't bookmark them. I think I found them on Wayfinder. On the flip side I really don't have poo poo for the verse. Even I don't like the nearby theater being a Booth reference, despite him acting there for years.
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Nov 13, 2014 00:25
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Merlot Brougham posted:
Wow, I hadn't seen this before. That's pretty spot-on. I'll still post my Portland theory tonight, but man. It's still probably New York.
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Nov 13, 2014 00:28
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Nocheez posted:Agree with this. I think Charleston might still be available. I might have some free time in a few weeks to go down and start wandering around, see if I can make out any of the other clues. I think the "eyes" of the Fort Sumter thing are supposed to be a clue of something you'll see when you're nearby. Something like Earthquake bolts  Merlot Brougham fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 00:33
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I'm proposing that half the remaining casks are out of play - that in 32 years, the parks that the clues lead to have been remodeled so extensively that it's pointless to keep going. I think that's being pretty darn generous tbh. BTW that Ellis Island theory is looking dang good. Was always bothered by the red line around the rectangle. I knew it meant something. Great find.
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Nov 13, 2014 00:35
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ExtraNoise posted:Wow, I hadn't seen this before. That's pretty spot-on. For reference, there are three of them, and the birds are located here on Ellis Island.  Megaman's Jockstrap posted:BTW that Ellis Island theory is looking dang good. Was always bothered by the red line around the rectangle. I knew it meant something. Great find. Edit: The red line wasn't my discovery. I'd give credit where credit's due but I don't remember who first pointed that out. It was earlier in this thread somewhere that I first read about it. E2: It was Fake Green Dress, http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3552196&userid=109893#post417402089 Merlot Brougham fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 00:36
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I'm skeptical about the spires. From the hazy crap in the image I really don't see how the Ellis island ones can match up unless from a very strange angle. Can you see Ellis Island from the train station? The eagle looks similar but so do hundreds of artistic representations of eagles from the New York metro area. I recall thinking the bubbly pattern from the window panes might refer to a type of stained glass but that never panned out - you're saying that's all style? E: the spires really look like a Russian church
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Nov 13, 2014 00:44
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Delthalaz posted:I recall thinking the bubbly pattern from the window panes might refer to a type of stained glass but that never panned out - you're saying that's all style? I'm not sure if it means a whole lot as it relates to the style argument, but Palencar does use the same bubbly pattern in Image 1.  And the Chicago Water tower in Image 5 really looks like a windmill. I'm fine with the spires being Ellis Island.
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Nov 13, 2014 00:54
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Can someone summarize how image 13 is tied to Boston? I have been working on that image and verse but these latest postings make me wonder why it is accepted that the gypsy image is Boston? Is there anything obvious in the painting that ties it to Boston or even Massachusetts?
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Nov 13, 2014 01:13
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I'm not even that 100% sold on the spires but if you want to argue that bird please PM me about a bridge for sale on another Isle of B. It even has the slightly protruding tongue. For years and years people have assumed it was the Chrysler building, believe me if that were a common bird the Internet would have found it. The bird is the Ellis Island terminal, that is exactly what's meant by "Polaroid." There is some artistic license involved, and some things are more photorealistic than others. It was recently discovered in Cleveland that the centaurs hat looks exactly like the odd shape of a window that is visible from the casque site (it's across the street). You may be able to see the spires like that from somewhere on the island, somewhere across the bridge (which was not there in 1982) to Liberty State Park, or possibly on the ferry from Liberty Island > Liberty State Park. I don't know. Egbert (if I recall right) went there quite recently. I'll see if he posted anything. The main problem is that if it had anything to do with the NJ Railroad Terminal the entire area has been redeveloped. Behind the train yard has been a parking lot for 20 years, the area lining the water (in all of the park) has had a boardwalk and concrete installed, and the terminal had fallen into disuse/disrepair before Sandy. Sandy really hit this area hard, I'm not sure it's even reopened yet. Edit: in multiple puzzles people have theorized that Preiss paid special attention to things related to the bicentennial. It's come up as a common theme in a few suspected locations. xie fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 01:14
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Deadite posted:Can someone summarize how image 13 is tied to Boston? I have been working on that image and verse but these latest postings make me wonder why it is accepted that the gypsy image is Boston? Is there anything obvious in the painting that ties it to Boston or even Massachusetts? The Hatch Shell is depicted in the bottom right of the image, in the striped 'globe' thing.
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Nov 13, 2014 01:17
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xie posted:The Hatch Shell is depicted in the bottom right of the image, in the striped 'globe' thing. That is only if you are looking straight down at the hatch shell from directly above. So unless the artist was working off of a satellite image it can't be a polaroid image. I guess I was looking for something like the outline of Ohio in the Cleveland painting. Is there anything like that in the Gypsy painting?
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Nov 13, 2014 01:21
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Deadite posted:That is only if you are looking straight down at the hatch shell from directly above. So unless the artist was working off of a satellite image it can't be a polaroid image. That isn't correct, the striping on the hatch is visible from the ground. Nobody has found a map in Image 11 of anywhere. I say the crack on the wall looks like the path after the Longfellow in my solve, but you have to be on board to get there in the first place. Edit: aerials did exist back then as well. One of my more "edge" theories is that each painting has an object depicted from above
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Nov 13, 2014 01:25
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xie posted:The Hatch Shell is depicted in the bottom right of the image, in the striped 'globe' thing. I posted about it the other day, but have you been on Storrow lately? The area in front of the hatch she'll is a crater. Hope it's not buried there.
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Nov 13, 2014 01:27
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I am not trying to threadshit or anything, I actually went to the esplanade/hatch shell today to check it out again (by the way they are tearing up the area around the hatch shell, I hung around and watched for a while just in case the cask turned up in the dirt but it didn't). I just haven't noticed anything in the image that I would consider unmistakably Boston.
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Nov 13, 2014 01:29
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BigFactory posted:I posted about it the other day, but have you been on Storrow lately? The area in front of the hatch she'll is a crater. Hope it's not buried there. I don't think it was, but I haven't been there super recently. How and where is torn up? Just the area around it/surrounding it, or up to the water line? 
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Nov 13, 2014 01:31
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It is the grassy area directly in front of the shell, right where the audience would be for a concert. It isn't close to the water really
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Nov 13, 2014 01:34
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I didn't see how close to the water, but it looked like every place that someone would conceivably sit going back to where the esplanade takes a bend was completely dug up for landscaping renovations.
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Nov 13, 2014 01:34
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Oh I have no suspicions it's where people watch concerts (doesn't mean it isn't but some of the other clues make me think not). It's probably at least a bit more secluded. I just went back and pulled out the email, I was specifically asked not to post his work on SA. I PMed you a list of stuff yesterday that all matches from Storrow, if you had let me know I could have met you and shown you some stuff.
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Nov 13, 2014 01:35
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I work in the area so I can be there anytime really. Well, at least up until my boss fires me for hanging out at the esplanade instead of working
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Nov 13, 2014 01:38
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To answer the more general question that was asked, Boston is also located at 42° N 71°W.  The one thing that I've never seen any type of convincing answer to, which is obviously intended to be a clue, is the hairline here. I've tried making some comparisons, including what historic aerials I could find but can't match anything in the vicinity of Boston Harbor. 
Merlot Brougham fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 01:42
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The hairline is what bugs me because it should be a big clue, but I can't match it to anything definitively. I mean, the Charleston painting has a pretty obvious outline of Charleston, where is the Boston reference?
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Nov 13, 2014 01:45
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Ohio has a loving map of ohio, Chicago doesn't have anything quite so obvious. Roanoake has a map, charleston has a map. #1 sure as heck looks like Golden Gate Park, Houston definitely looks like Hermann Park. But they're not all the same map. Some are states, some are cities, Roanoake is neither, etc. I've mentioned that to me her hairline has always looked like a skyline of some sort. It's almost certainly a mega clue. If you look at the bottom of her hairline to me the really tall piece looks like the Hancock building from the side, and tat's where I took the skyline from, but I'm not making an argument for it, just stating what I've seen. There is the always-looming St. Louid problem of course. #11 has been connected to St. Louis because of the possible arch depiction, and simply because if there is one in StL we have no loving idea. edit: Milwaukee is pretty definitely Milwaukee and no maps has been found.
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Nov 13, 2014 02:04
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Deteriorata posted:That the stripes are red, yellow, and green suggests it has nothing to do with a flag at all. Those are stoplight colors. Merlot Brougham posted:I don't own a copy of the book myself, but I'm pretty sure it isn't a matter of speculation that the bars are red, white, and blue.  Megaman's Jockstrap posted:TBH I've always suspected that New York might be some other city (with a Statue of Liberty replica in it, there's a lot of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicas_of_the_Statue_of_Liberty). The fact that they've never been able to find that church outline and it is so distinctive is baffling. And the dress bottom doesn't really look like the shape of Manhattan at all. The red is only on two sides and I can't find anything indicating it was ever on all 3.
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Nov 13, 2014 02:25
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Crazy check: does anyone else see a similarity to image 11? I'm not objective about this puzzle, I need a sanity checker. http://i.imgur.com/pff52ek.png http://i.imgur.com/ahS4TLO.png
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Nov 13, 2014 02:27
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I too have a hard time relating any of that to Boston. The falcon, the weird dress pattern, they look so specific but I can't think of anything they relate to. Apologies but it doesn't feel like a hatch shell thing to me. (That also seems like a "112" or 1122 more than an upside-down 71 to me.) The image is so stark, the details so specific, I bet it's much more literal. I don't see anything vaguely map-like except for the white pattern on the falcon. I also can't find any sculptures that look like that falcon, or a statue with the same pose as the woman. But looking at the other images.... nothing about them strikes me as Boston either. I got nuthin'.
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Nov 13, 2014 02:30
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:41 |
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xie posted:Crazy check: does anyone else see a similarity to image 11? I'm not objective about this puzzle, I need a sanity checker.
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Nov 13, 2014 02:30
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