terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

VLADIMIR GLUTEN posted:

contract-to-hire is loving bullshit because legally contractors set their own hours but lmfao if you think these places allow that

i can only speak for myself, but this doesn't bother me

as a contractor, i'll work as many hours as you want. literally around the clock if that's what suits you. i've done more than 24 hours in a single shift many times, because the customer demanded it.

and i billed for every hour

it's funny how rigid a 9-6 schedule gets when booking that 5:30pm meeting is gonna cost extra

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:12

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# ? May 10, 2024 19:16

Sniep: Mar 28, 2004; All I needed was that fatty blunt...

King of Breakfast

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

as a contractor you exchange low job security and poo poo benefits for higher pay and some control over your hours

as an employee, you take a shittier salary in exchange for the warm embrace of corporate life -- reasonable job security + bennies/perks

so when you post a contract-to-hire job, who the gently caress do you get as applicants?

contractors don't need to be hired. they just want to get paid. advertising "contract-to-hire" indicates you don't really want to pay top dollar. only a truly desperate contractor will even apply, because all his normal leads have dried up and there are no other advertisements

potential employees don't want to be on a contract. they want health insurance and an FSA and a 401k, and the assurance they won't be fired if it can be avoided. what kind of reliable, risk-averse company man signs up to be a contract just for chance at a job offer at the end? the unemployed, hapless loser kind

contract-to-hire just makes no god drat sense as a strategy

contract to hire is a great way for someone to get their foot in the door somehow and prove themselves, in my experience.

i dont think anyone takes a gig like that unless they are looking to move up, or are struggling to find work, but its a good setup for both those jobseekers who are, and the companies to them it gives them a "real" interview of candidates that may be useful elsewhere in the company, or that are poo poo and it's no harm done

for the job seeker, its a chance to get in somewhere without any real lead in / foot in the door

i dont hate on contract to hire at all. it's pretty transparent

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:18

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

he places I know that use c2h do it primarily as an extended interview process so they don't have to be so fussy up front

I'm not saying there's not jerks who don't abuse it, just that there are reasonable use cases for it

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:19

theadder: Dec 30, 2011

postin on page 219

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:19

Sniep: Mar 28, 2004; All I needed was that fatty blunt...

King of Breakfast

rotor posted:

he places I know that use c2h do it primarily as an extended interview process so they don't have to be so fussy up front

I'm not saying there's not jerks who don't abuse it, just that there are reasonable use cases for it

exactly.

6 month contract to hire gives people time enough to learn systems, get access, and display actual real world benefit, or display an utter lack of ability to do so

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:21

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

What's the difference between giving a contract to hire, and giving a few months' probation period?

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:21

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

MononcQc posted:

What's the difference between giving a contract to hire, and giving a few months' probation period?

its harder to fire someone than just not renew a contract/extend an offer

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:22

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

all due to big governments meddling in private corporations

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:23

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

thanks obummer

anyway I looked at glassdoor and pulled a number out of my rear end and they seemed to like it lol if I can get 40 bucks an hour doing the same thing I did to write Internet hat sites but for someone else that would rule

low cost of living here so the average isn't very high

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:26

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

Luigi Thirty posted:

thanks obummer

anyway I looked at glassdoor and pulled a number out of my rear end and they seemed to like it lol if I can get 40 bucks an hour doing the same thing I did to write Internet hat sites but for someone else that would rule

low cost of living here so the average isn't very high

hopefully u didnt give them the hourly rate for a non-contractor

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:27

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

hopefully u didnt give them the hourly rate for a non-contractor

still a big step up tho, and as nbsd said he can stay there for a while and jump ship for more cash

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:29

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

hopefully u didnt give them the hourly rate for a non-contractor

they said it's full time and what I gave them was within what they were expecting :shrug:

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:30

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

yeah + i totally lowballed by first real job negotiation thing despite all the advice telling me not to

not next tiem tho

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:30

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Sniep posted:

contract to hire is a great way for someone to get their foot in the door somehow and prove themselves, in my experience.

i dont think anyone takes a gig like that unless they are looking to move up, or are struggling to find work

ok i guess i can see this.

if you actively want to find candidates who are struggling, C2H might let you take some risks on people you fully expect to be marginal

rotor posted:

he places I know that use c2h do it primarily as an extended interview process so they don't have to be so fussy up front

by advertising c2h, you guarantee that you will only get the most desperate candidates

if the fear is that you have to be really fussy in normal applicant selection, c2h is gonna make that problem worse

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:32

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Luigi Thirty posted:

they said it's full time and what I gave them was within what they were expecting

you got screwed. and that's ok.

welcome to professional life

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:32

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you got screwed. and that's ok.

welcome to professional life

i have dishonored my family

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:35

Sniep: Mar 28, 2004; All I needed was that fatty blunt...

King of Breakfast

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

by advertising c2h, you guarantee that you will only get the most desperate candidates

if the fear is that you have to be really fussy in normal applicant selection, c2h is gonna make that problem worse

i know i'm responding to rotor's reply, but i dont know how it makes the problem worse.

everyone is fussy in normal applicant position when you are talking about a 401k-having salaried type position. either you come parallel from a role at another company (and scrutinized why you are leaving them, because lovely workers try to bail sideways all the time), or more commonly, jump ahead based on relationships you have

i dont see how that changes, i mean HR is crazy and i dont understand it but it doesnt seem to me like applying C2H for jobs you need filled ASAP changes the desk job hiring process that much.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:38

Papes: Apr 13, 2010; There's always something at the bottom of the bag.

Luigi Thirty posted:

i have dishonored my family

it's ok Mario will bail you at yet again

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:41

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Sniep posted:

everyone is fussy in normal applicant position when you are talking about a 401k-having salaried type position. either you come parallel from a role at another company (and scrutinized why you are leaving them, because lovely workers try to bail sideways all the time), or more commonly, jump ahead based on relationships you have

if you are already excessively fussy facing the general population of applicants, targeting the most desperate 10% of applicants is gonna put you in an even worse position

if you're worried about why people make lateral moves, you should be 100x as worried about a candidate who would be willing to consider a "lateral" move into a contract-to-hire, a job that is a step down in every way

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:46

Sniep: Mar 28, 2004; All I needed was that fatty blunt...

King of Breakfast

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

if you are already excessively fussy facing the general population of applicants, targeting the most desperate 10% of applicants is gonna put you in an even worse position

you're not contracting the 10% job seekers to do that, you're giving any applicant a chance to prove themselves below, at, or above a basic position. many stay doing what they were contracted for forever, you do a job you keep the job etc.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

if you're worried about why people make lateral moves, you should be 100x as worried about a candidate who would be willing to consider a "lateral" move into a contract-to-hire, a job that is a step down in every way

c2h i said was a step up kind of job.

lateral moves from people who suck i acknowledge as a thing and C2H only helps out in that becuase they aren't bought by the new company, and their retardedness usually shows itself in that time, before costing the company TONS on them

# ? Nov 13, 2014 03:50

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Sniep posted:

you're not contracting the 10% job seekers to do that, you're giving any applicant a chance to prove themselves below, at, or above a basic position. many stay doing what they were contracted for forever, you do a job you keep the job etc.

c2h will scare away the top 90% of job seekers, for the reasons i enumerated earlier

soliciting applicants for c2h is scraping the barrel. you are consciously choosing to interview the most desperate candidates.

they may not be desperate because they're bad. as you pointed out, some of them may be struggling to advance themselves. a c2h ad might get a marginal applicant an interview his resume would never have otherwise won him

# ? Nov 13, 2014 04:17

z0rlandi viSSer: Nov 5, 2013

rotor posted:

he places I know that use c2h do it primarily as an extended interview process so they don't have to be so fussy up front

I'm not saying there's not jerks who don't abuse it, just that there are reasonable use cases for it

agreed, OP.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 04:20

my homie dhall: Dec 9, 2010; honey, oh please, it's just a machine

Luigi Thirty posted:

they said it's full time and what I gave them was within what they were expecting

I hope this works out for you, luigi30

# ? Nov 13, 2014 04:22

Sniep: Mar 28, 2004; All I needed was that fatty blunt...

King of Breakfast

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

c2h will scare away the top 90% of job seekers, for the reasons i enumerated earlier

and as i've said it's to move UP not down or ideally not sideways. the top majority already have prospects above that. those who suck rear end and/or have bitter pasts at former employers yet list "good jobs" face extra scrutiny, i'd figure

moving up here meaning you're out of a job, don't have a good lead in, just need to get a job and you're not an idiot.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

soliciting applicants for c2h is scraping the barrel. you are consciously choosing to interview the most desperate candidates.

i disagree. the barrel is often extremely wide and there is talent out there that just doesn't have the foot-in to show itself without a gamblers chance.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

they may not be desperate because they're bad. as you pointed out, some of them may be struggling to advance themselves. a c2h ad might get a marginal applicant an interview his resume would never have otherwise won him

exactly, lots of people are struggling to find work who have real skills, if you can find a c2h in a company that does things you're good at, you can quickly advance and find a role.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 04:26

BONGHITZ: Jan 1, 1970

i get paid in peanuts, but i am also an elephant

# ? Nov 13, 2014 04:36

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

BONGHITZ posted:

i get paid in peanuts, but i am also an elephant

u must develop on a macbook pro then

because ur afraid of mice!!

# ? Nov 13, 2014 04:45

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

theadder posted:

postin on page 219

# ? Nov 13, 2014 04:56

du -hast: Mar 12, 2003; BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT GENTOO

ok i have a dumb question.

i am a computer janitor in a data center / managed hosting place so i dont do a lot of programming (hey, its a job)

when i was in high school i wrote a lovely operating system with x86 assembly and c/c++ which was the most ridiculuously difficult way to learn how to program ever. i looked at the code for it a couple years ago and realized that not only was it garbage, but id forgotten most of how it works

so i want to get back to python since its the real big deal in the programming "scene" right now, but i have only done the spam eggs print something from a matrix bullshit

what can it do that is actually important? like what is it used for in the real world? i would like to learn it to get back into programming but it gets boring after a couple hours of loving around and printing stuff from a matrix

what is it good for in the real world? why should i learn it (and i dont mean, "because its easy and simple", i mean what can i do with it that is cool and real rather than just exercises)

ty for reading this long post

ps posting on pg 219

# ? Nov 13, 2014 05:01

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

well python is big with biologists for some reason. it has a bunch of fancy math libraries. it's also a popular web language.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 05:06

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

by advertising c2h, you guarantee that you will only get the most desperate candidates

not really, and it's really not the big deal you're making of it

# ? Nov 13, 2014 06:51

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

i mean i know you were abused by startups and also big companies and probably medium sized companies too but c2h is a fairly normal thing, especially in areas where they're hiring help outside their core business and they're unsure how things may work out, and when they're hiring junior people like we have in this situation.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 06:53

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Jimferd posted:

ok i have a dumb question.

i am a computer janitor in a data center / managed hosting place so i dont do a lot of programming (hey, its a job)

when i was in high school i wrote a lovely operating system with x86 assembly and c/c++ which was the most ridiculuously difficult way to learn how to program ever. i looked at the code for it a couple years ago and realized that not only was it garbage, but id forgotten most of how it works

so i want to get back to python since its the real big deal in the programming "scene" right now, but i have only done the spam eggs print something from a matrix bullshit

what can it do that is actually important? like what is it used for in the real world? i would like to learn it to get back into programming but it gets boring after a couple hours of loving around and printing stuff from a matrix

what is it good for in the real world? why should i learn it (and i dont mean, "because its easy and simple", i mean what can i do with it that is cool and real rather than just exercises)

ty for reading this long post

ps posting on pg 219

python can be used to write computer programs.

# ? Nov 13, 2014 06:54

Marsol0: Jun 6, 2004; No avatar. I just saved you some load time. You're welcome.

Jimferd posted:

ok i have a dumb question.

i am a computer janitor in a data center / managed hosting place so i dont do a lot of programming (hey, its a job)

when i was in high school i wrote a lovely operating system with x86 assembly and c/c++ which was the most ridiculuously difficult way to learn how to program ever. i looked at the code for it a couple years ago and realized that not only was it garbage, but id forgotten most of how it works

so i want to get back to python since its the real big deal in the programming "scene" right now, but i have only done the spam eggs print something from a matrix bullshit

what can it do that is actually important? like what is it used for in the real world? i would like to learn it to get back into programming but it gets boring after a couple hours of loving around and printing stuff from a matrix

what is it good for in the real world? why should i learn it (and i dont mean, "because its easy and simple", i mean what can i do with it that is cool and real rather than just exercises)

ty for reading this long post

ps posting on pg 219

hello fellow cj python can be used in a bunch of cjing places

http://www.fabfile.org/en/latest/

# ? Nov 13, 2014 07:09

BONGHITZ: Jan 1, 1970

what can i do with computer programs?

# ? Nov 13, 2014 08:31

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

BONGHITZ posted:

what can i do with computer programs?

nothing of any lasting value

# ? Nov 13, 2014 08:39

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

who cares about lasting value when there's profit now

# ? Nov 13, 2014 08:44

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

BONGHITZ posted:

what can i do with computer programs?

write skynet and send a terminator back in time to kill you before you wrote it and see if it breaks the time space continuum

# ? Nov 13, 2014 09:30

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Stringent posted:

write skynet and send a terminator back in time to kill you before you wrote it and see if it breaks the time space continuum

why not cut out the middleman

and the time travel

# ? Nov 13, 2014 10:08

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Jimferd posted:

ok i have a dumb question.

welcome to yospos, you're home.

quote:

i am a computer janitor in a data center / managed hosting place so i dont do a lot of programming (hey, its a job)

i am a computer janitor and i do a lot of programming so i don't have to janitor so much. i look after one set of machines which looks after thousands.

quote:

when i was in high school i wrote a lovely operating system with x86 assembly and c/c++ which was the most ridiculuously difficult way to learn how to program ever. i looked at the code for it a couple years ago and realized that not only was it garbage, but id forgotten most of how it works

this is true of almost all code, after three months you'll probably forget how it works.

especially if it's written in assembly.

quote:

so i want to get back to python since its the real big deal in the programming "scene" right now, but i have only done the spam eggs print something from a matrix bullshit

python is a good choice to begin with, it sets up good habits later on, but it will start to hurt when you build very large pieces of software in it.

don't get too hung up on the choice of language though, unless it's ruby. i hate ruby.

quote:

what can it do that is actually important? like what is it used for in the real world? i would like to learn it to get back into programming but it gets boring after a couple hours of loving around and printing stuff from a matrix

what is it good for in the real world? why should i learn it (and i dont mean, "because its easy and simple", i mean what can i do with it that is cool and real rather than just exercises)

unfortunately mate i've no idea about what's important to you, i think you're the only one who can tell us what stuff is important to you.

we can throw you the things we think are worth spending time and effort on, but it's rarely a transitive property

basically you can write cool and real programs, but tbh, i only write software because i get paid to do it.

quote:

ty for reading this long post

tbh you could probably just go gently caress around in unity and make some lovely game about farting

# ? Nov 13, 2014 13:30

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# ? May 10, 2024 19:16

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

buttbot is the only worthwhile software ever written

# ? Nov 13, 2014 16:26

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