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Dash Magnum posted:I'm also perplexed by the notion that somehow the show getting better justifies the weak start. Or even more bizarre, this weird idea that the show sucking at first and then getting better over time makes it better than if it was just good from the beginning. Like the show itself, not the story or characters, needed some kind of "arc". I don't get it either, but the main line of defense is that "other shows started bad therefore..." There really wasn't any reason AoS couldn't have started better than it did. And I mean that in the most literal sense. Good stories exist outside of Marvel's cinematic universe, which is not even 10 years old. The stories and characters were poorly written because they were poorly written.
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Nov 13, 2014 20:12
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This week on shows that are based on comics that I watched: Gotham - This was a pretty solid episode and the show is gradually improving, plus Barbara may be leaving Jim (for now) and that is a positive (until she gets her life threatened again). Honestly the show has been a patchy and inconsistent but every now and again it finds some good story and solid performances. Penguin continues to by my favourite character on the show, and I quite like the transformation his character is taking. Fish on the other hand goes from campy to annoying, usually in the space of a single scene, but overall she was okay in this episode. The Black Mask stuff was nice and twisted, and I thought it was done well without too much winking at the camera like Gotham is usually known for. Flash Besides some pacing problems (ha ha) this was an okay episode. I was worried because all the episodes so far have been rogues of the week and it got kind of annoying and predictable, but this episode turns the formula around by having someone not using their new found powers for evil. Also it was nice to give Barry someone he could talk to about having powers. Anyway, we all saw how that friendship ended. Clancy Brown made a good adversary for this episode, even though he came close to being Amanda Waller for me. The end scenes though were awesome. Arrow - I have some issues with Wildcat. I had issues with him when he was introduced. One of the things I have always liked about Wildcat is that he was mentor to the heroes. He was the father figure who taught them how to fight. I liked that. I don't like him being reduced to the same age as everyone else and being turned into a love interest. I love the idea of mentors and people who show others the way. This is all weird because this episode shows how badly someone can screw up when filling in that mentor role, and the person who screwed up the most was Wildcat. In the end this episode was dull and a bit too unsubtle in everything that was going on. I wasn't a fan of Wildcat being a vigilante, having a sidekick, and being Wildcat in general. Otherwise, I thought the Roy stuff was handled interestingly, although a bit neat and tidy, especially seeing as it was a big reveal and it was fixed all in the space of one episode.
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Nov 13, 2014 20:13
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zoux posted:People expect shows to be incredible from day one and don't give writers and actors time to develop. I guess premature was the wrong word, but the level of vitriol directed at the show and the way SHIELD bashing would infect any topic remotely related to comic book shows was way out of proportion. zoux posted:I mean, I watched the first couple of episodes and was like, "Yeah, this is a total binge show, I'll wait until it comes out on Netflix". e: And again, as a reminder, the first 16 episodes of AoS (aka the pre-Turn Turn Turn parts of season 1 that are generally considered pretty weak/bland) took literally six months to air. This narrative that people were just being big, impatient babies is ridiculous. VDay fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 20:13
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Please tell me Black Mask is not yet another character who is a full grown adult on Gotham as well. Isn't he supposed to be the same exact age as Bruce? Or did they just introduce his family?
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Nov 13, 2014 20:16
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I certainly kept up with the reaction, as it was everywhere all the time. For example there is very little in this thread about Arrow or Flash but tons and tons about SHIELD. [quote="VDay" post=""437634530"] e: And again, as a reminder, the first 16 episodes of AoS (aka the pre-Turn Turn Turn parts of season 1 that are generally considered pretty weak/bland) took literally six months to air. This narrative that people were just being big, impatient babies is ridiculous. [/quote] Whoa six whole months 
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Nov 13, 2014 20:16
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zoux posted:I certainly kept up with the reaction, as it was everywhere all the time. I can't speak for Flash or Arrow threads in TVIV since I don't read them, but the AoS thread has historically been kind of lovely and filled with people who tend to start arguments over dumb things. It was also a shining beacon for people defending the show, to a point that there was briefly a rule against people posting negative comments about the show. So it isn't surprising to me that more people are talking about SHIELD here. Also the developments on SHIELD are tied to a larger universe in general, and people in TVIV don't like it when comic book stuff pops up too much in the threads, which again makes it hard to discuss.
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Nov 13, 2014 20:20
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zoux posted:Hmmm so it's almost like the show developed and improved over time and maybe the endless bitching and whining about it were premature. It's still a bad show.
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Nov 13, 2014 20:23
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SHIELD or TNG?
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Nov 13, 2014 20:26
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zoux posted:I certainly kept up with the reaction, as it was everywhere all the time. quote:Whoa six whole months
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Nov 13, 2014 20:31
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Someone who hated it/thought it was boring tuned in every week for six months so they could join in on hating it online?
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Nov 13, 2014 20:33
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zoux posted:SHIELD or TNG? SHIELD, it's still the same show they just kill off characters now and reference bigger D list people. The terrible actors are still terrible, it's just people have gotten used to their characters. TNG had the bonus of ending so Worf could go to DS9.
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Nov 13, 2014 20:37
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zoux posted:Someone who hated it/thought it was boring tuned in every week for six months so they could join in on hating it online? I'm not Irish Joe. I (and obviously plenty of other people) tuned in for six months because we didn't actually hate the show and were, in fact, giving it a chance to get better/more interesting, aka the thing you think people didn't do because you just read people's posts about how terrible AoS was which were unsurprisingly on the hyperbolic side. \/\/ If that's your main point then fair enough. I was mostly just responding to this: zoux posted:People expect shows to be incredible from day one and don't give writers and actors time to develop. I guess premature was the wrong word, but the level of vitriol directed at the show and the way SHIELD bashing would infect any topic remotely related to comic book shows was way out of proportion. VDay fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 20:40
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VDay posted:I'm not Irish Joe. I (and obviously plenty of other people) tuned in for six months because we didn't actually hate the show and were, in fact, giving it a chance to get better/more interesting, aka the thing you think people didn't do because you just read people's posts about how terrible AoS was which were unsurprisingly on the hyperbolic side. Well then what's your dog in this fight exactly? To tell me I shouldn't have been irritated by people constantly bitching about SHIELD in the Arrow thread?
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Nov 13, 2014 20:44
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Waterhaul posted:SHIELD, it's still the same show they just kill off characters now and reference bigger D list people. The terrible actors are still terrible, it's just people have gotten used to their characters. Nah, it's a good show. It's fun, the characters have come into their own, the overarching storyline is going places, Kyle McLachlan is great, and it doesn't feel like they're hamstrung by the movies anymore. But you're right, people who like it are just used to it, awesome conclusion.
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Nov 13, 2014 21:47
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Waterhaul posted:and reference bigger D list people. redbackground fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 21:55
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redbackground posted:Not sure what the problem specifically there is (and uh, what do you mean bigger D-listers? Aren't they all the same at that point?). They brought Absorbing Man in and did a fantastic job of showing off his abilities. I am all for SHIELD bringing in the characters that will never get used in the movies to muck around with--that's exactly what it should be doing. I'd put Absorbing Man above like Gravity, at least Absorbing Man has been in a film before. They just feel like throwing random names on people. Like Absorbing Man was just some goon, why not make him an actual part of the story and progression of the series. I don't think they've actually addressed any of the actual main issues with show or what they should be doing. Fitz and Simmons are still terribly cast, Skye has gone from the completely terrible levels of the beginning of Season 1 to I guess she's also there? and Ward is a hilarious Hannibal knock off (when there's already a great Hannibal on tv). But the main thing is it still just feels like it's spinning it's wheels and once Age of Ultron is released around season finale time it's just going to "shake things up" again and move the plot in a different direction.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:09
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Waterhaul posted:The terrible actors are still terrible, it's just people have gotten used to their characters. Which actors are terrible? Aside from the guy playing Tripp everyone of the main cast has been superb for some time now.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:11
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Waterhaul posted:I'd put Absorbing Man above like Gravity, at least Absorbing Man has been in a film before. They just feel like throwing random names on people. Like Absorbing Man was just some goon, why not make him an actual part of the story and progression of the series. Wait they've had both Gravity and Graviton already?
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Nov 13, 2014 22:12
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Geez, a show moving in a different direction with a new season, that's not like that happens in every single serialized show ever made.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:13
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Hakkesshu posted:Geez, a show moving in a different direction with a new season, that's not like that happens in every single serialized show ever made. Good shows do it organically and through character development. They aren't waiting for other people to tell them it's okay to make the show interesting.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:17
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Waterhaul posted:Good shows do it organically and through character development. They aren't waiting for other people to tell them it's okay to make the show interesting. The show is interesting, though 
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Nov 13, 2014 22:18
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Waterhaul posted:I'd put Absorbing Man above like Gravity, at least Absorbing Man has been in a film before. They just feel like throwing random names on people. Like Absorbing Man was just some goon, why not make him an actual part of the story and progression of the series. I like Simmons much more these days as 1) I am not immune to the charms of Ms. Henstridge, and her Barely-Infiltrating Hydra shenanigans. Her crushing on Mockingbird was pretty great, too. Action scenes seem stronger and better choreographed as of late, the new cast members are fitting in well (Kyle McL, Tyra from FNL, and even the British guy somehow). I think it's an enjoyable weekly serial these days 
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Nov 13, 2014 22:19
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The British guy is great because of the banter with Bobbi.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:23
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redbackground posted:I do think that Fitz should not have survived Season 1. I disagree. I like Fritz interaction with the new guy and them just being friends.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:25
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Never watched SHIELD before, tell me what episode I need to watch to "get" it.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:26
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Waterhaul posted:I'd put Absorbing Man above like Gravity, at least Absorbing Man has been in a film before. They just feel like throwing random names on people. Like Absorbing Man was just some goon, why not make him an actual part of the story and progression of the series. Because Absorbing Man was just a goon for Hydra, and they are doing exactly what you want here with Kraken, Skye's dad, and to a lesser/different extent Ward. Waterhaul posted:I don't think they've actually addressed any of the actual main issues with show or what they should be doing. Fitz and Simmons are still terribly cast, Skye has gone from the completely terrible levels of the beginning of Season 1 to I guess she's also there? and Ward is a hilarious Hannibal knock off (when there's already a great Hannibal on tv). But the main thing is it still just feels like it's spinning it's wheels and once Age of Ultron is released around season finale time it's just going to "shake things up" again and move the plot in a different direction. This paragraph reads to me like you aren't actually watching Season 2 at all. How is this show spinning its wheels when the central plot is the focus of every episode, and is being driven forward every single episode? Its the polar opposite of season 1, and any wheel spinning. Just because you are projecting some shake up at Age of Ultron (which I think comes out after this season is over anyways) doesn't make the current plot anything other than central, relevant, and engaging. mikeraskol fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 22:39
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HitTheTargets posted:Never watched SHIELD before, tell me what episode I need to watch to "get" it. I mean, technically you could watch from 16 on, however you miss a bunch of the setup for that event which means it will have less of an effect on you. quote:In terms of Episodes to watch. 15 is one I recommend but isn't necessary. It's a fun episode with Sif in it, which has a whole bunch of Ward stuff.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:39
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HitTheTargets posted:Never watched SHIELD before, tell me what episode I need to watch to "get" it.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:40
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HitTheTargets posted:Never watched SHIELD before, tell me what episode I need to watch to "get" it. It's coming to Netflix next Thursday! A lot of shows that are boring week to week aren't so bad binged.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:40
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zoux posted:Wait they've had both Gravity and Graviton already? No, he meant Graviton. drat, Gravity would make a kickass Spider-Man replacement in the MCU. I hope we see him eventually.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:41
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bobkatt013 posted:I disagree. I like Fritz interaction with the new guy and them just being friends. Fitz: (fiddles with doodad) Other Guy: Hey buddy, whatcha doin? Fitz: (stammers) Other Guy: Naww, it's okay, you're real important still! Fitz: (stammers)  redbackground fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 22:44
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redbackground posted:I mean, yeah, that guy hanging with Fitz trying to boost his ego was nice and all, but every time we saw them, it was almost the exact same scene: That's happened twice so far and was no where to be seen during the episode that just came on this week.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:50
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This week they were playing Halo Master Chief Collection™, In Stores Now , like best buds.
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Nov 13, 2014 22:59
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Dexo posted:This week they were playing Halo Master Chief Collection™, In Stores Now , like best buds. And Simmons was totes jealous cause they wouldn't let her play too.
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Nov 13, 2014 23:02
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Waterhaul posted:SHIELD, it's still the same show they just kill off characters now and reference bigger D list people. The terrible actors are still terrible, it's just people have gotten used to their characters. The DS9 seasons post-Worf sink to depths TNG's first season could never have dreamed of.
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Nov 13, 2014 23:05
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Dexo posted:I mean, technically you could watch from 16 on, however you miss a bunch of the setup for that event which means it will have less of an effect on you. So there's no good jumping on point that encapsulates what the show is about? It really is like a comic book.
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Nov 13, 2014 23:22
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So, guys, haven't seen much chatter, but how is Constantine?
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Nov 13, 2014 23:32
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Lurdiak posted:The DS9 seasons post-Worf sink to depths TNG's first season could never have dreamed of. You really think seasons 4 on was worse than TNG first season?
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Nov 13, 2014 23:57
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bobkatt013 posted:You really think seasons 4 on was worse than TNG first season? Absolutely. TNG worked because it was episodic fun silly stuff. DS9 started taking itself horribly seriously and attempting the most godawful long-running plotline I've seen in science fiction. They also attempted and failed miserably at having shades of grey in this ridiculous, boring, bogged down conflict of theirs. Then the final season had a stupid magic book? It was a living nightmare.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:00
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bunnyofdoom posted:So, guys, haven't seen much chatter, but how is Constantine? It is good and going to be cancelled.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:01
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