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sebzilla posted:Holding a baby in a moving vehicle is not particularly safe, hence child seats and so on for cars. I think not wanting to take a child out of a pram/buggy can go beyond laziness or entitlement, and actually be a safety concern. Although seatbelts aren't mandatory on buses either so I guess just gently caress poors who use public transport? Fatality and injury rates on buses are ridiculously lower than any other form of road transport - a combination of lower speeds, higher visibility of the vehicle, higher training of the driver, and if it comes (literally) to the crunch the much higher mass of the bus compared to most things it's likely to crash into means that a bus is pretty much the safest form of transport you're ever likely to take. Also having seatbelts on a vehicle where as many as 50% of passengers don't have seats might be seen as a little silly.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:07
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Cerv posted:more like being turned away from a bus that isn't quite full, but someone's keeping their shopping bags on a seat and refusing to give up the space for you This is assuming the pushchair folds and that there is a safe place to put it. That is not always true. If it doesn't or can't be folded, what do you suggest as the solution?
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Nov 14, 2014 16:10
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jabby posted:This is assuming the pushchair folds and that there is a safe place to put it. That is not always true. i refer you to my previous post
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Nov 14, 2014 16:32
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Most people these days buy 'travel systems' that have a collapsible chassis along with a pushchair that can collapse with it, but also a 'carry cot' that fits on the top for when the baby is very young. These don't collapse and are quite large - they're not the sort of thing you could carry on your knee. Without knowing more details I'd be wary of judging her for not removing her pushchair/pram as she may have had no option but to block the aisle or leave the bus. Additionally, the mother may have been given the pushchair second hand so it may not have been her choice which one she uses. Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 16:36
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Cerv posted:i refer you to my previous post Why not just state your opinion unambiguously? I assume you mean that people with pushchairs should always have to leave the bus if someone with a wheelchair wishes to get on. To which I refer you to the questions in my original post. Would you not have a problem with (for example) leaving a mother and young child at a random bus stop after they have already paid their fare? Even after dark? If they were unfamiliar with the area and no other buses were coming? Granted that is a worst case scenario, but it is one with the potential to happen if a ruling was made indicating wheelchair users always have priority regardless of circumstances.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:43
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If you're assessing need surely the reason for travel is also a factor? Should a disabled person taking a trip to the cinema take priority over a parent taking a baby to the hospital?
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Nov 14, 2014 16:47
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Make it so bus companies have to arrange alternate transport (I.e. Taxi) for those requiring special access if there's insufficient room. Costly and a logistical nightmare, which would ensure busses are adequately prepared.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:51
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clearly the solution is to outlaw pushchairs and make papooses mandatory
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Nov 14, 2014 16:51
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I like the way you think, but we should go for compulsory wheelchairs for all.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:54
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outlaw children???
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Nov 14, 2014 16:56
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Give disabled people a grant so they can afford to buy a car adapted to their needs.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:57
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Pissflaps posted:Give disabled people a grant so they can afford to buy a car adapted to their needs. Nah, a lot of people shouldn't be driving as it's dangerous. Give them money to hire 24 hour drivers.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:59
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Have IDS clear them "Fit to Walk" and chastise them for using the Disabled Area.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:05
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The reason there's a space is because of, and for, disabled people. It's not called a Pram Space. Add to the fact that there are options for Parents with children. Different options in transportation of them and their child. Different prams. Folding prams, Baby carrying or even being held in arms. They have options. Disabled people rarely have options. So the attitude of "I was here first" or "FYGM" is loathsome.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:05
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Pissflaps posted:Give disabled people a grant so they can afford to buy a car adapted to their needs. we do but it's just not very well known this post as case in point.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:12
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Shelf Adventure posted:I like the way you think, but we should go for compulsory wheelchairs for all. To expand on this, what about a bus for each passenger? That way everyone gets their own space and doesn't need to worry about others taking it.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:38
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Mothers vs Disabled. Or how about bus companies provide a service that isn't shockingly unreliable and filled to the brim. So that there's more space for mothers and the disabled and if the disabled spot is filled, you don't have to wait half an hour for the next bus.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:39
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jabby posted:Why not just state your opinion unambiguously? i couldn't be bothered copying & pasting but here you go Cerv posted:If you buy a pram that's designed to not collapse that's your own stupid fault. It's not even a price thing.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:41
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Cerv posted:i couldn't be bothered copying & pasting So, bar non-folding prams from buses entirely? StoicFnord posted:The reason there's a space is because of, and for, disabled people. These options are spoken like someone who has never had to deal with a young child. Carrying a baby in your arms is not really conducive to going out shopping. Even folding prams take up a lot of space on the bus, and their options when buying may have been limited. Different transportation costs more. I am sympathetic to the needs of wheelchair users but there is a difference between making buses accessible and guaranteeing a space will always be available even during busy times. Not to mention the signage on lots of buses is ambiguous. If a space says 'may be used for buggies when not required by a wheelchair user' does that mean you will be thrown off if it suddenly is required? In which case refer to the questions I posed above. jabby fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 17:47
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JoylessJester posted:Mothers vs Disabled. Or how about bus companies provide a service that isn't shockingly unreliable and filled to the brim. So that there's more space for mothers and the disabled and if the disabled spot is filled, you don't have to wait half an hour for the next bus. Buses should be free at the point of use.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:05
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Being disabled and having to use a bus regularly is worse than some petty forum argument between able bodied people. 9 times out of 10 people occupy these seats and spaces and refuse to move when asked politely and it regularly results in verbal abuse from them and sometimes physical too. It's not just my area either, it's basically the UK as a whole as I've spoken to quite a lot of disabled people about this and the same happens to them too. Nothing quite beats having your sticks kicked away from you and collapsing on the floor in agony while everyone else on the bus either glares at you or just looks out the window just for asking if you could sit in the disabled seat as you can't stand. It should not be a part of a disabled persons life but it seems like able bodied people don't give a poo poo and think it's somehow our purpose in life to inconvenience people. I'm sick of it. It's bad enough to be demonised by the government, being treated as if we're the lowest of the low by the public hurts even more. But hey, I'm just a disabled person, what would I know about disabled seats and spaces on buses?
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Nov 14, 2014 18:16
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Obviously the wheelchair user should always have priority, but I think the bus company should refund the mother in some way and if it is in some nightmare scenario pay for a taxi. From my own experience on buses I would outright ban any pram that doesn't collapse and possibly look to incentivise mothers to use the bus off-peak. Also bus companies should look into building soundproof isolation chambers specifically for prams instead of the ad-hoc solution that leaves drivers in an incredibly uncomfortable position.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:16
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Wolfsbane posted:Buses should be free at the point of use. Yep. Free public transport would be awesome. Newer Edinburgh buses often have both a wheelchair space and a pushchair space, but even so, they have clearly displayed rules on the matter. Wheelchair users get priority. Any additional pushchairs should be folded. If they can't be folded or the person with the pushchair prefers, they can leave the bus and catch another one with a special ticket that they get from the driver. Never seen any sort of issue with that, and I think it's fair to all.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:16
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I think this is a complicated issue and both sides have very valid points and you guys are going to argue in circles forever.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:30
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Guavanaut posted:How does this work? We need to have more children but everyone else needs to have less?
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Nov 14, 2014 18:43
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Acaila posted:Yep. Free public transport would be awesome. You should join the SSP, the only party that supports nationalised free public transport.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:43
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TfL figured it out years ago
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Nov 14, 2014 18:44
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Don't most buses have that exact notice in their wheelchair areas? I do notice that it doesnt specifically say that a wheelchair user has priority if there is already a buggy in the space.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:47
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That's not a baby buggy, that's for a small child. Looks like TfL haben't figured it out at all.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:48
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namesake posted:Don't most buses have that exact notice in their wheelchair areas? It says "Buggies can use this area if not needed by a wheelchair user" that sounds like priority to me.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:49
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jabby posted:To which I refer you to the questions in my original post. Would you not have a problem with (for example) leaving a mother and young child at a random bus stop after they have already paid their fare? Even after dark? If they were unfamiliar with the area and no other buses were coming?
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Nov 14, 2014 18:57
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LemonDrizzle posted:If the mother keeps her space on the bus, the wheelchair user is left abandoned in the situation you describe. Both options suck, but it seems like it'd be more manageable for an able bodied woman with a baby than for a wheelchair user. Forgetting the relative merits of which passenger is more deserving for a moment: there's a difference between kicking somebody off a bus mid-journey and not allowing somebody to embark at all.
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Nov 14, 2014 19:00
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What if the baby was disabled? What then??
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Nov 14, 2014 19:12
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Pissflaps posted:Forgetting the relative merits of which passenger is more deserving for a moment: there's a difference between kicking somebody off a bus mid-journey and not allowing somebody to embark at all. That's true, and it would certainly be more upsetting to be kicked off mid-journey than to simply be denied access in the first place. However, it seems pretty clear that the disabled person's need is greater and that insofar as anybody's to blame for the conflict, it's the mother - she's the one who's opted to occupy a space set aside for disabled travellers and failed to avail herself of options such as a baby sling or collapsible pushchair that would have made it possible to avoid the problem.
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Nov 14, 2014 19:12
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Again, I would caution against assuming that every mother - especially one dependent on the bus for getting around - is able to afford alternative means of transporting her child.
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Nov 14, 2014 19:31
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Shelf Adventure posted:What if the baby was disabled? What then?? throw it under the wheels of the bus
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Nov 14, 2014 19:40
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Prince John posted:What the hell is this? I really hope to god there is no truth to these allegations... Yeah... don't be too surprised if there is though, because we're talking about some very dark corners here LemonDrizzle posted:Also, more news of the "people are wrong about everything" variety: Wish they'd also run similar polls in swing constituencies - it'd be interesting to see if the places that matter to politicians have much of a different view, or if the whole thing is basically 'gently caress you all we'll do what we want'. Good thing we have a real opposition party right guys!
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Nov 14, 2014 19:48
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Whys the Mayor of London traveling around America to pimp his book on Churchill?
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Nov 14, 2014 19:50
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My Imaginary GF posted:Whys the Mayor of London?
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Nov 14, 2014 19:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:Whys the Mayor of London traveling around America to pimp his book on Churchill? to sell more copies?
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Nov 14, 2014 20:01
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