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suicidesteve posted:Online legacy is (comparatively) cheap, probably cheaper than most "real" modern decks. I guess Dredge is probs only 100-200 bucks but the other cool stuff like U/R Delver (yes I am a douche) is in the 500 range according to MTGGoldfish and I don't have that kind of money to blow.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:19
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Gridlocked posted:I guess Dredge is probs only 100-200 bucks but the other cool stuff like U/R Delver (yes I am a douche) is in the 500 range according to MTGGoldfish and I don't have that kind of money to blow. If you're willing to play a little budget (off-colour fetches, skip Daze since you're not a mana-denial deck, etc.) you can easily get it down to sub-300. At that point the only expensive thing you're getting is Force, and you kind of need those anyway if you plan to play a blue deck in Legacy.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:38
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Quite classy of Tom Martell to concede that game even though he could have taken the draw.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:41
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Legacy on MODO isn't too bad as long as you aren't planning on playing LOTV or Wasteland. Unfortunately a lot of the really good Delver decks run Wasteland, but if you wanted to play control I don't think Miracles is that expensive. Dredge isn't bad either.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:46
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This 30+ minute wait in between rounds has been terrible. Why did they run the tournament like this.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:02
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AnacondaHL posted:This 30+ minute wait in between rounds has been terrible. Why did they run the tournament like this. Why don't you try running a 4000-person tournament? I'm surprised this isn't even more of a slog. edit: Also, people will get unreasonably pissed off about Cuneo's land layout
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Nov 16, 2014 02:22
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AnacondaHL posted:This 30+ minute wait in between rounds has been terrible. Why did they run the tournament like this. New rule: once a match goes 10 minutes over time, someone has 1 minute to concede before a deathmatch is initiated.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:24
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AnacondaHL posted:This 30+ minute wait in between rounds has been terrible. Why did they run the tournament like this. You probably work in some logistics based field and could totally work for SCG and tell them what they're doing wrong managing a 4,000 man event where you need to post results of 2,000 matches per round, have it processed by a program designed by a top notch technology company Wizards of the Coast who always has grade A software, then distribute round pairings to 4,000 people, have them seated and ready to go. How long would it take you, logistics master? Oh also keep in mind a round timer has nothing to do with when matches end due to the 5 turn rule, every round probably runs something like 10-20 minutes past the timer for at least one pairing anyway. How would you address this issue?
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Nov 16, 2014 02:26
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jassi007 posted:You probably work in some logistics based field and could totally work for SCG and tell them what they're doing wrong managing a 4,000 man event where you need to post results of 2,000 matches per round, have it processed by a program designed by a top notch technology company Wizards of the Coast who always has grade A software, then distribute round pairings to 4,000 people, have them seated and ready to go. How long would it take you, logistics master? Clearly the way to do this is to have dynamic pairings so that when people finish one round and another pair finishes with appropriate opponents they can be paired against one another on the fly. This has the downside of having 2000 individual round clocks running at any one point, and the upside of making all the slow playing control durdle players stuck playing one another until the end of time as they wait for appropriate opponents. This is not actually a solution, except maybe in modo where the round clock can be managed per pairing without needing 1,000 judges at this event.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:32
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jassi007 posted:Oh also keep in mind a round timer has nothing to do with when matches end due to the 5 turn rule, every round probably runs something like 10-20 minutes past the timer for at least one pairing anyway. How would you address this issue? Few enough matches should go to time that you could probably have a judge at every single one of them. The solution is to aggressively hand out slow play warnings/losses if people aren't playing at an adequate pace - going to turns does not mean that you no longer have a time limit, and if someone is playing too slowly at that point it's probably their fault the match went to time in the first place.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:32
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Jabor posted:Few enough matches should go to time that you could probably have a judge at every single one of them. Effectively it does, though. This is why second sunrise was banned when eggs became popular. Eggs players were taking 30 minute turns during extra time, because last game they took a 30 minute turn and surprise they went to time. The deck wasn't overly powerful or fast, it just took too long and made tournaments into a nightmare to run. See also: Sensei's Divining Top. In this theme, someone at my LGS says that he has a deck that can lock any legacy tournament into an never-ending oblivion using possibility storm and some other cards that he won't mention. Bullshit? Or is it actually possible to make the game grind to a halt with 8 hour turns?
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Nov 16, 2014 02:35
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Olothreutes posted:In this theme, someone at my LGS says that he has a deck that can lock any legacy tournament into an never-ending oblivion using possibility storm and some other cards that he won't mention. Bullshit? Or is it actually possible to make the game grind to a halt with 8 hour turns? No, because you'll get a slow play game loss after the first few times you loop through instead of just saying how many iterations you're performing. It's the same reason no-one plays Four Horsemen.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:41
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Olothreutes posted:In this theme, someone at my LGS says that he has a deck that can lock any legacy tournament into an never-ending oblivion using possibility storm and some other cards that he won't mention. Bullshit? Or is it actually possible to make the game grind to a halt with 8 hour turns? It's really not that hard to do this kind of poo poo in Magic. An example would be setting up an infinite mana combo and continuously activating Top on your turn until the store owner bans you from playing there forever.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:42
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Eddie Whitson posted:edit: Also, people will get unreasonably pissed off about Cuneo's land layout Sounds like they're a bit soft to the ol' Cali Box Out.
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Nov 16, 2014 02:59
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Jabor posted:No, because you'll get a slow play game loss after the first few times you loop through instead of just saying how many iterations you're performing. It's the same reason no-one plays Four Horsemen. I pointed this out, he said that this wasn't an issue because the hangup occurs during the resolution of a single spell. Cast spell, stack goes to poo poo, sorting it out is nigh-impossible. Personally I think he's full of poo poo. This is also the same guy who proxies Tabernacle in EDH decks. Not because he has one and doesn't want to play with it, but "I can't find one for a price I'm willing to pay so I'm proxying it for now." In short he's awful people and I dislike him, but I'm curious to know if it is possible to make a single spell essentially unresolvable using a combination of cards. Not that I expect any deck that relies on a 5 cmc red enchantment to do very well in legacy anyway. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 02:59
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Olothreutes posted:I pointed this out, he said that this wasn't an issue because the hangup occurs during the resolution of a single spell. Cast spell, stack goes to poo poo, sorting it out is nigh-impossible. Personally I think he's full of poo poo. As a judge: No.
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Nov 16, 2014 03:06
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I remember thinking up of a situation that you can resolve on MTGO but have no chance of resolving in paper (and it's not a loop that causes a draw, like the o-ring loop), I'll try to think of what it was.
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Nov 16, 2014 03:12
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The Chromatic Sphere + Lich's Mirror one? Start casting a spell, crack the sphere, draw on an empty library, Lich's Mirror shuffles all your permanents into your library, now you can't finish casting the spell.
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Nov 16, 2014 03:17
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Oh yeah, I think I got it: you get an arbitrarily large storm count (say, one billion) and then cast Brain Freeze on an opponent, but your opponent has an Ulamog in his deck. After all of those copies of Brain Freeze are finished resolving, what is the top deck of your opponent's deck? I recall this actually happening in one of my EDH games once (I was the one with the Brain Freeze hehe) EDIT: Well in this case his top card is random either way, but there are probably states that involve arbitrarily large numbers and not being able to resolve their effects because you would actually have to do something one billion times to see the end result. EDIT2: For instance, if someone had a Dimir Doppelganger on the board during all this, which creature would he be able to copy? There's a chance that every creature in the opponent's deck that's being milled will eventually enter the graveyard, but it's not a 100% chance. hey mom its 420 fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 03:51
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vOv posted:The Chromatic Sphere + Lich's Mirror one? Start casting a spell, crack the sphere, draw on an empty library, Lich's Mirror shuffles all your permanents into your library, now you can't finish casting the spell.
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Nov 16, 2014 03:51
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Olothreutes posted:This is also the same guy who proxies Tabernacle in EDH decks. Not because he has one and doesn't want to play with it, but "I can't find one for a price I'm willing to pay so I'm proxying it for now." In short he's awful people and I dislike him, but I'm curious to know if it is possible to make a single spell essentially unresolvable using a combination of cards. Not that I expect any deck that relies on a 5 cmc red enchantment to do very well in legacy anyway. Yeah man how dare that guy proxy that 800 dollar card, shame on him
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Nov 16, 2014 03:52
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Lancelot posted:I think that one breaks the game only if you're trying to cast a Panglacial Wurm from your library (or maybe something with Future Sight or whatever). When you can't cast the Wurm due to losing a mana source to the Mirror, the game tries to unwind the game state to what it was before. But you can't undo a shuffle, presumably. According to Matt Tabak the card goes on top of your library.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:01
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Sadly, never printed. The only Astral card that has a physical print is Aswan Jaguar, and that only in Oversize.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:02
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Keiya posted:Sadly, never printed. The only Astral card that has a physical print is Aswan Jaguar, and that only in Oversize. They should toss some of those into DotP
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Nov 16, 2014 04:07
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You can break the game with Lich's Mirror if you somehow come to control one owned by a different player and have ten poison counters.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:Yeah man how dare that guy proxy that 800 dollar card, shame on him I know several people with their EDH decks half proxies. Anybody who gives a gently caress about me not wanting to pay over 100 on an Imperial Recruiter because my Norin deck functions well with it is a gently caress who doesn't understand what money is actually worth.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:27
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Count Bleck posted:I know several people with their EDH decks half proxies. Sure, that is an opinion. Another one is play with the cards you have.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:36
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jassi007 posted:Sure, that is an opinion. Another one is play with the cards you have. gently caress the collectable aspect of the game.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:37
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Count Bleck posted:Anybody who gives a gently caress about me not wanting to pay over 100 on an Imperial Recruiter because my Norin deck functions well with it is a gently caress who doesn't understand what money is actually worth. Also I think his point is that tabernacle is sort of a no fun card so not the sort people like to say "okay I guess you can proxy that", but what do I know about EDH evaluations On that note, is it true there is only one oversized card in the new commander decks? I am saddened CFB won't sell me an oversized Titania 
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Nov 16, 2014 04:39
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Kraus posted:gently caress the collectable aspect of the game. Since I just sold all my paper cards of value, I do kinda want to make an all proxy cube though.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:39
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Count Bleck posted:I know several people with their EDH decks half proxies. I think proxying in EDH is fine and would have no problem with anyone using them against me, but claiming that people who don't proxy don't understand the value of money is kind of an odd stretch to make.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:41
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Spiderdrake posted:An arbitrary definition insofar as how much you personally evaluate your time that is not a shared perspective and is utterly subjective to each individual?
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Nov 16, 2014 05:40
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Veyrall posted:There are actually people who want oversized cards. Will wonders never cease?
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Nov 16, 2014 05:44
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Veyrall posted:There are actually people who want oversized cards. Will wonders never cease? I enjoy having Prossh sitting on top of my desk.
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Nov 16, 2014 05:45
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Spiderdrake posted:An arbitrary definition insofar as how much you personally evaluate your time that is not a shared perspective and is utterly subjective to each individual? Yes, when I got my black commander deck the only oversized card was Ob that you see on the front. He's sitting with my esper commander oversized cards next to my unused top loaders and old sleeves I can't get myself to throw away.
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Nov 16, 2014 05:52
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Eddie Whitson posted:Why don't you try running a 4000-person tournament? I'm surprised this isn't even more of a slog. jassi007 posted:How long would it take you, logistics master? Amazingly, there are other methods of offering valid objective criticism than 1st hand experience. Such as: me being a player in 4 of the 5 biggest MtG tournaments to date and having relative observations. In Richmond, SCG split Day 1 into three tournaments. The one that was a block away (Pink tournament) had it's own clock and judges and was run very smoothly. I don't know if the two other tournaments (Yellow and White) in the main hall had a shared clock or not, but they ended about 1.5 hours after the Pink tournament. GP Boston-Worcester had separate clocks, stages, and rooms for the two tournaments. In GP NJ they ran all 3 tournaments off the same clock, same as how it was done at GP Las Vegas, but with key differences. The main stage (with all the clocks) is in the far corner of the ballroom as opposed to being in the center. Some of the tables are a three minute walk away from the stage. Additionally, the seating was all mixed together, as opposed to the nice assigned quadrants in Las Vegas, adding even more between round time. The pairings boards are a joke, spread across the entire length of the room with only one copy. Thank goodness the seatings posted to Twitter were on-point and timely, but that isn't and shouldn't have been a requirement for people to get to their tables in a timely manner. It feels like they used GP NJ as an experiment to see if they could run a tournament in another way, but weren't really confident with what was going to happen, when they should have just had the three tournaments with 3 clocks in 3 separate areas. And they decided to ignore everything GP Las Vegas did right. Even with Deck Registration, deck building, and 4 tournaments instead of 3, GP Las Vegas's Day 1 managed to end an hour earlier than GP NJ. Disclaimer: I made Day 2 and I'm fairly frustrated with how long this nine round Day 1 took, the longest I've ever seen, and I have to be back there at 8:55 am.
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Nov 16, 2014 07:10
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The secret to enjoying GPs is dropping 4-5 rounds in and do a side event. Or just leave. If you play to win you will hate life and yourself. Every event I've played with over 100 people has been sloooooooow and lovely actually playing the GP, but had more fun in side events.
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Nov 16, 2014 11:37
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GPs would be way better if you could double-queue like in MTGO. Sure, they'd last longer, but you'd be much less annoyed at twiddling your thumbs for half an hour every round waiting for the control mirror to finish.
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Nov 16, 2014 12:18
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AnacondaHL posted:Amazingly, there are other methods of offering valid objective criticism than 1st hand experience. Such as: me being a player in 4 of the 5 biggest MtG tournaments to date and having relative observations. The events you refer to all had the flaw of loving over some amount of people because breakers were reset for day two. I wonder if this will still be the case for NJ or not. If they have to split the event anyway then your point is more valid. Also I was in pink flight at Richmond and I still think they deserve a lot of slack. I don't think 30 min between rounds is unreasonable when your managing 4000 pairings. What they should do is schedule hard round start time give people 30 minutes and let them know so they can grab a bite or whatever.
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Nov 16, 2014 13:20
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After playing jeskai ascendancy at M15 gameday and for over a month of FNMs, I am getting very bored of standard and I don't want to play this deck anymore. Are there any interesting (and relatively cheap) decks out there that I can playtest and tinker with? Ideally I would love to play around jeskai ascendancy more but not in a strictly combo role (that heroic deck looks interesting but very unreliable), anyone got any recommendations?
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Nov 16, 2014 14:25
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