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You could argue that a significant portion of the workforce now being university educated has lead to most finding lower level jobs beneath them, leading to the massive rise in unemployment of degree qualified people in their twenties.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:25
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Wolfsbane posted:And? If the people are going to low quality universities doing worthless degrees, then have raised expectations of what is to come after they graduate, then yes.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:26
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Wolfsbane posted:And? The original rationale was predicated on the belief that a certain proportion would go to university. The higher the proportion, the less realistic that rationale becomes in terms of resources etc.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:28
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I'm guessing "low quality universities" means "universities I didn't go to" and "worthless degrees" means "arts", right? e: Saki posted:The original rationale was predicated on the belief that a certain proportion would go to university. The higher the proportion, the less realistic that rationale becomes in terms of resources etc. Why? If something is profitable, surely you would want to do more of it?
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Nov 17, 2014 16:28
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serious gaylord posted:You could argue that a significant portion of the workforce now being university educated has lead to most finding lower level jobs beneath them, leading to the massive rise in unemployment of degree qualified people in their twenties. You could but you'd have it the wrong way around. High unemployment leads to more people seeking degrees in the hopes of improving their chances but the unemployment problem is structural rather than a skills issue.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:36
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tentish klown posted:If the people are going to low quality universities doing worthless degrees, then have raised expectations of what is to come after they graduate, then yes. If
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Nov 17, 2014 16:42
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tentish klown posted:If the people are going to low quality universities doing worthless degrees, then have raised expectations of what is to come after they graduate, then yes. lmao you are a leech you don't get to call any degree worthless you spaff pile.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:49
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Wolfsbane posted:I'm guessing "low quality universities" means "universities I didn't go to" and "worthless degrees" means "arts", right? There are plenty of worthless degrees in the scope of employment. More or less anything to do with History/English is utterly pointless without a view to going on and teaching it. There are thousands of people who have spent tens of thousands of pounds on things like Fashion, theatre costume/set design just to end up working in an office due to the incredibly low number of jobs in that profession. One of my best friends recently admitted to regretting even going to uni to study art history as it has set her back so far in the world for no benefit. Unfortunately Degrees do not mean you get a job these days as 'degree educated' can mean anything from 'bumbled through 3 years at Bournemouth Arts institute to get a degree in film studies' to 'honours from Kings in mathematics'.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:49
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The Open University should be nationalised and free imo.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:52
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Back in the day you paid nothing up front for your education, received a stipend to live on while studying, and then hopefully paid it back through taxation when you graduated. These days you pay nothing up front for your education, receive a stipend to live on while studying, and pay it back via the tax system when you graduate. Plus ca change...
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Nov 17, 2014 16:54
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serious gaylord posted:There are plenty of worthless degrees in the scope of employment. More or less anything to do with History/English is utterly pointless without a view to going on and teaching it. There are thousands of people who have spent tens of thousands of pounds on things like Fashion, theatre costume/set design just to end up working in an office due to the incredibly low number of jobs in that profession. One of my best friends recently admitted to regretting even going to uni to study art history as it has set her back so far in the world for no benefit. In a service based economy (like ours) a degree in anything is good as it shows the person is able to do the type of work the modern office environment entails. There might be some truth that highly educated people have an incorrect idea as to what they are about to face, but since when have adolescents been good at making level headed decisions? Add to this that they have no experience they must relay on the information given to them. The problem is the current economy not useless young people being upperty wankers.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:57
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Wolfsbane posted:Why? If something is profitable, surely you would want to do more of it? I'm guessing the 'profitable' part of an educated populace is the part that has a job that makes use of a degree (or makes use of the skills acquired in getting that degree). When those jobs fill up, you end up with waste - either the degrees don't get used or they go abroad.
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Nov 17, 2014 16:59
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i see the point you're trying to make, but if you call a loan a stipend then words have ceased to have meaning
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Nov 17, 2014 16:59
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serious gaylord posted:There are plenty of worthless degrees in the scope of employment. More or less anything to do with History/English is utterly pointless without a view to going on and teaching it. There are thousands of people who have spent tens of thousands of pounds on things like Fashion, theatre costume/set design just to end up working in an office due to the incredibly low number of jobs in that profession. One of my best friends recently admitted to regretting even going to uni to study art history as it has set her back so far in the world for no benefit. you sure you aren't bitter that you didn't get invited to the cool people parties? haha
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Nov 17, 2014 17:00
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Cerv posted:i see the point you're trying to make, but if you call a loan a stipend then words have ceased to have meaning LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 17, 2014 |
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Nov 17, 2014 17:11
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TinTower posted:There's already a catchier Francophone African charity single for the Ebola crisis anyway: This is rad, thanks for sharing
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Nov 17, 2014 17:21
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serious gaylord posted:There are plenty of worthless degrees in the scope of employment. More or less anything to do with History/English is utterly pointless without a view to going on and teaching it. Don't you work in marketing? I wouldn't hire non-English or at least non-language/media grads to do marketing, since their copy is always terrible. Most people who have not specifically studied English can't write anything to save their life, never mind being pursuasive or informative. Our worst, most terrible 'couldn't tell which end of a computer was up' marketing staffer was the masters marketing kid. Best were the English, linguistics and design ones.
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Nov 17, 2014 17:21
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serious gaylord posted:There are plenty of worthless degrees in the scope of employment. More or less anything to do with History/English is utterly pointless without a view to going on and teaching it. There are thousands of people who have spent tens of thousands of pounds on things like Fashion, theatre costume/set design just to end up working in an office due to the incredibly low number of jobs in that profession. One of my best friends recently admitted to regretting even going to uni to study art history as it has set her back so far in the world for no benefit. I hate the attitude that the sole purpose of education is a higher salary and if it doesn't do that it's worthless. History teaches you to critically evaluate sources, vital considering the state of the press. Communication skills you lean in English are important in all walks of life. The very few people I've met who have done more esoteric things like dance at a high level tend to be the most dedicated to their chosen field. A highly educated population is a good thing in itself.
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Nov 17, 2014 17:22
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Wolfsbane posted:Why? If something [like charging for education at the point of delivery] is profitable, surely you would want to do more of it? bam
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Nov 17, 2014 17:24
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Your university choices can be affected by your choice of GCSE subjects, which can be made as young as 13. That's pretty crazy.
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Nov 17, 2014 17:24
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History grads are very sought after for research skills. They make good barristers, for example
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Nov 17, 2014 17:49
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serious gaylord posted:to 'honours from Kings in mathematics'. Which makes you qualified for what exactly? Teach Maths?
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Nov 17, 2014 18:00
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LordVorbis posted:Which makes you qualified for what exactly? A bunch of jobs in the finance sector stipulate a degree in maths or a mathematical field
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Nov 17, 2014 18:03
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Yeah maths is basically a really good thing to study because you'll be in high demand.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:05
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KKKlean Energy posted:I'm guessing the 'profitable' part of an educated populace is the part that has a job that makes use of a degree (or makes use of the skills acquired in getting that degree). When those jobs fill up, you end up with waste - either the degrees don't get used or they go abroad. Like bitterandtwisted said, it's more soft benefits than literal capital gains; a country where everyone had only supposedly lesser arts and humanities degrees would be better off than one with half a handful of chartered engineers. Imagine a Britain where the default state wasn't nearly everyone being wrong about nearly everything. Wouldn't that be great? JFairfax posted:Yeah maths is basically a really good thing to study because you'll be in high demand. A bad reason to take a degree you weren't already interested in, FYI. Attempting to be mercenary about higher education is only going to work out if you're the kind of polymath and/or psychopath who could do well at just about anything on no more motivation than "I kinda feel like it". Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Nov 17, 2014 |
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Nov 17, 2014 18:06
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Renaissance Robot posted:Like bitterandtwisted said, it's more soft benefits than literal capital gains; a country where everyone had only supposedly lesser arts and humanities degrees would be better off than one with half a handful of chartered engineers. Imagine a Britain where the default state wasn't nearly everyone being wrong about nearly everything. Wouldn't that be great? Oh I quite agree, though I think it's worth adding that there are plenty of educated people who are still nearly wrong about everything. If there's one education I would make mandatory across the population (and which I would bury in government money to achieve) it's a course in statistics.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:10
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KKKlean Energy posted:Oh I quite agree, though I think it's worth adding that there are plenty of educated people who are still nearly wrong about everything.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:15
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LordVorbis posted:Which makes you qualified for what exactly? Any data analysis position, management consultancy, graduate level programming jobs, most jobs in the finance sector, accountancy, business analyst positions, and yes, teaching maths.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:17
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Management consultancy is the opposite of a useful job, though. Or at least it is for the 20-something guys with heads full of game theory and zero experience of actually running something. Someone like that is very rarely going to have anything useful to say. That's not to say it's not well-paid, of course. Plenty of people either believe that management consultants with no experience of managing a firm are actually somehow useful, or else they're required to act as if they believe that, because if they object they'll be ignored and/or sidelined.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:19
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In my experience, management consultancy is a very enticing hole for anyone who has a budget to use up. My last salary trickled down pretty much directly from the NHS.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:25
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KKKlean Energy posted:If there's one education I would make mandatory across the population (and which I would bury in government money to achieve) it's a course in statistics. Thinking in terms of numbers is useful, but when so much media drives to play on emotion it's essential to be able to work with that. Maybe critical thinking or some philosophy too.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:29
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Guavanaut posted:I'd add history to that, for reasons mentioned above by bitterandtwisted. Maybe it's just that I had a couple of good history teachers, but it really drove home source bias, and some of the thinking errors like confirmation bias (which was absent from science class even though it's a major science thing). You had very good history teachers. I can't imagine a version of my own experience of compulsory history education that might have included, for example, an analysis of allied war crimes and the way in which these were effectively written out of history.
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Nov 17, 2014 19:13
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Which UKMT thread was the train-making GBS threads story in?
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Nov 17, 2014 19:13
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Renaissance Robot posted:You had very good history teachers. I can't imagine a version of my own experience of compulsory history education that might have included, for example, an analysis of allied war crimes and the way in which these were effectively written out of history. Maybe not looking at that specifically, but the current GCSE curriculum requires students being able to critically analysis sources and potential bias. There have been issues in the past two years, however, where Gove has tried to make History lessons more about memorising facts and figures.
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Nov 17, 2014 19:43
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Farecoal posted:Which UKMT thread was the train-making GBS threads story in? It's in every thread, if you look close enough the poo poo is in you Margaret Thatcher posted:Maybe not looking at that specifically, but the current GCSE curriculum requires students being able to critically analysis sources and potential bias.
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Nov 17, 2014 19:55
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Renaissance Robot posted:You had very good history teachers. I can't imagine a version of my own experience of compulsory history education that might have included, for example, an analysis of allied war crimes and the way in which these were effectively written out of history. As forums poster Ms Thatcher (   ) said above, that sort of thing should still be in the curriculum, but Gove hated it. Possibly because people might apply it to current sources.
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Nov 17, 2014 20:16
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Guavanaut posted:l Most of Gove's policies seemed to revolve around how he was taught. Which a lot of people do ("I learnt it like this and I'm smart/it worked for me!") but politicians should step back and listen to what professionals and/or academics say about the subject.
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Nov 17, 2014 20:32
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Phoon posted:The Open University should be nationalised and free imo. I just wanted to say - gently caress The Open University. My girlfriend got her Masters' (Psychology) from there and it was hell for her. Her assigned tutor did not like her thesis subject. He would call her on the phone to threaten her, saying that if she doesn't do as he says he will make sure she never has a career in the field. The staff lied to her and told her that the ethics committee rejected her Masters' thesis topic - later, when all internal communication regarding her was given over on request, it turned out that the ethics board was just fine with it. It was her tutor, and members of staff who liked him who made that happen. There was lots of internal communication where they discussed how to screw her over. Turns out they also falsified her grades from exams. They threw her out out the course, despite good grades. She was only readmitted half a year later, after threatening to take the matter to court. She did manage to get a different tutor, again only by threatening legal action. That one was encouraging, but the rest of the staff were not. She didn't get any sort of extension on the deadlines, so in effect she had half a year less to work on her thesis. Other people in the course got extensions when they asked for them, she did not. After everything was sorted, everyone in the course got written confirmation that they graduated. She did not until just before the graduation ceremony. Which cost hundreds of pounds. She didn't want to go, though family insisted. Then at the graduation ceremony, they insisted she do the usual student speech of thanking the university for all the support she received. gently caress those shitheels.
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Nov 17, 2014 20:50
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LordVorbis posted:Which makes you qualified for what exactly? Rofl.
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Nov 17, 2014 20:56
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If everyone here had honours from Kings in mathematics, we'd all be loaded and then have no option but to self-cannibalise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ3kVtd2CCA Edit: Obviously if the whole country had honours from Kings in mathematics, unemployment would be 0% and everyone would be equally wealthy, it would be wonderful. 
Kegluneq fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 17, 2014 |
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Nov 17, 2014 21:07
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