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Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal
Slab leak in our apartment master bedroom. Maybe an excuse to break the lease? Concrete subfloor.

Carpet is soaked and it happened quickly

E: Pictures for anyone more experienced. I see us being displaced for a couple days?


Feet are point where carpet is wet.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Oct 26, 2014

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My Rhythmic Crotch
Jan 13, 2011

That's probably coming from the hot water tank. Same thing happened in my place. It can be fixed pretty easily if they hire a crew to come out and do it right... ie dry it out enough that no mold forms.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

That's probably coming from the hot water tank. Same thing happened in my place. It can be fixed pretty easily if they hire a crew to come out and do it right... ie dry it out enough that no mold forms.

Hm normally I would be thankful if it were something small, but I'm actually hoping we can get out of the lease. We might have a case. Maintenance guy said they need to pull a couple sq/ft of concrete out.

quote:

NRS 118A.400  Damage or destruction of dwelling unit by fire or casualty.

1.  If the dwelling unit or premises are damaged or destroyed by fire or casualty to an extent that enjoyment of the dwelling unit is substantially impaired, the landlord may terminate the rental agreement and the tenant may, in addition to any other remedy:

(a) Immediately vacate the premises and notify the landlord within 7 days thereafter of the tenant’s intention to terminate the rental agreement, in which case the rental agreement terminates as of the date of vacating.

(b) If continued occupancy is lawful, vacate any part of the dwelling unit rendered unusable by the fire or casualty, in which case the tenant’s liability for rent is reduced in proportion to the diminution in the fair rental value of the dwelling unit or lack of use of the dwelling unit.

2.  If the rental agreement is terminated, the landlord shall return all prepaid rent and security recoverable under this chapter. Accounting for rent in the event of termination or such continued occupancy shall be made as of the date the premises were vacated.

3.  This section does not apply if it is determined that the fire or casualty were caused by deliberate or negligent acts of the tenant, a member of his or her household or other person on the premises with his or her consent


That looks screwed up on my phone hopefully it pasted ok.

Anyone have opinion on what casualty means there?

Edit 2 this is what my wife has been smelling for the past couple of months, if anyone remembers that. Pregnant ladies got the noses.

Edit 3: http://www.washoelegalservices.org/index.php/landlord-tenant/8-termination-of-rental-agreements NRS 118.400 ? Any opinions?

Edit 4: Contacted a law firm (free consultation).

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Oct 26, 2014

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

So, just to confirm:

You're spending $1200 to break a lease plus moving expenses.

And you've saved a grand total of $70 towards the baby?

Health plan and health savings account aside, that's utterly ridiculous.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

IllegallySober posted:

So, just to confirm:

You're spending $1200 to break a lease plus moving expenses.

And you've saved a grand total of $70 towards the baby?

Health plan and health savings account aside, that's utterly ridiculous.

That aside is a huge one. Its nearly 33% of our income we're actually saving for the baby. We don't need anymore stuff and we'll obviously add baby stuff as a line item when needed. What multi thousand dollar things does a baby need around the time of birth? Drives me crazy. We're fine the baby will be fine moving is a good decision. We're accounting for hopefully the largest cost of delivery and hospital fees.

Edit and we already have a crib, changing table, nursing chair, and car seat.

Edit2: To put that into perspective, we're saving almost three times our current rent, and twice the new (may not even get the house) rent for the baby fees every month.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 26, 2014

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal
Lol sorry to keep posting but they're jack hammering our entire bathroom. Not sure if it's grounds for a lease break (lawyer should get back to me asap on free consult tomorrow), but holy poo poo is this place a poo poo hole

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!
In the various places I've lived the only out clauses I've seen have been in regards to the house being livable and a landlord not taking any action, so in my low low low sense of landlord tenant law, I'd assume you're going to have a hard time winning a case in court.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Veskit posted:

In the various places I've lived the only out clauses I've seen have been in regards to the house being livable and a landlord not taking any action, so in my low low low sense of landlord tenant law, I'd assume you're going to have a hard time winning a case in court.

Yep... I took a paid personal day for tomorrow so I'm going to go talk to the office manager. Here's a picture update for anyone interested:



Will update tomorrow.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

Knyteguy posted:

Lol sorry to keep posting but they're jack hammering our entire bathroom. Not sure if it's grounds for a lease break (lawyer should get back to me asap on free consult tomorrow), but holy poo poo is this place a poo poo hole

And you want to buy a house...holy :lol:

Things break, places leak, the fact that this happened today and they are already partway done to fixing it means you have a somewhat decent landlord. I would say the best you could hope for is getting some rent off this month.

Is that your only bathroom? Even so it is probably not even close to grounds for breaking a lease.

Free rent is your best bet.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

spwrozek posted:

And you want to buy a house...holy :lol:

Things break, places leak, the fact that this happened today and they are already partway done to fixing it means you have a somewhat decent landlord. I would say the best you could hope for is getting some rent off this month.

Is that your only bathroom? Even so it is probably not even close to grounds for breaking a lease.

Free rent is your best bet.

It is our only bathroom. I know things break and if it was a single home landlord I wouldn't take advantage of the situation. However it's not so I'll leverage it as much as I can; it's just business and lucky timing.

Robo Boogie Bot
Sep 4, 2011
Do they already know that you're planning on moving out? If so I wouldn't plan on them decreasing the rent or letting you out of the lease for this.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Robo Boogie Bot posted:

Do they already know that you're planning on moving out? If so I wouldn't plan on them decreasing the rent or letting you out of the lease for this.

One of the front office ladies did, but not the office manager/company as a whole since we didn't submit anything formal.

I told them we "might" be breaking the lease, but it's definitely not a for sure thing. They expect the repairs to last until Thursday, which is just something awful (:v:). The smell of wetness is overwhelming and we may as well not have a master bedroom right now, and our bathroom will be accessible maybe half the time for the next week. Yay. We may have a legal standing to move but it's probably not worth the hassle to push it. However the office manager did say that if we break the lease we actually don't need to give 30 days notice, we can just leave whenever. We'll find out the status of the house today, so we may actually move on the 1st of this weekend.

Compensation:
We'll get a rent credit which is what I expected. Unsure on how much since the repairs aren't done yet, but the office manager said she's "very fair" which is what I've seen in my dealings with them so far.

Anyway at least we'll save a little money. I doubt it'll be worth the shittiness of the next few days, but it's something.


Now if you'll excuse me Goons I'm going to start selling drugs for money on the side. Why didn't I think of that before?

Rick Rickshaw
Feb 21, 2007

I am not disappointed I lost the PGA Championship. Nope, I am not.

Knyteguy posted:

Anyway at least we'll save a little money. I doubt it'll be worth the shittiness of the next few days, but it's something.

Of course it will be worth it. Even if it's $100, it's worth it. What hardship are you really experiencing here? It's not even your own floor that has a hole in it.

You're not single. It's not like you have to worry about what your date will think of your place on Saturday night. It is worth it.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006

Rick Rickshaw posted:

Of course it will be worth it. Even if it's $100, it's worth it. What hardship are you really experiencing here? It's not even your own floor that has a hole in it.

You're not single. It's not like you have to worry about what your date will think of your place on Saturday night. It is worth it.

It smells bad dude, they should give him like $10k cash because of it. The landlord totally did this on purpose just to screw with Knyteguy!

Knyteguy posted:

Now if you'll excuse me Goons I'm going to start selling drugs for money on the side. Why didn't I think of that before?

I understand you're kidding around here, but please don't get back into the mind set of "I know it's bad, but other people are worse!". That's a really easy way to start making excuses that will put you right back in the hole you're trying to climb out of, and I feel like it's been part of your "financial problem" from the start. "I'm no Slow Motion! I'm not as bad as X!".

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Bugamol posted:

It smells bad dude, they should give him like $10k cash because of it. The landlord totally did this on purpose just to screw with Knyteguy!


I understand you're kidding around here, but please don't get back into the mind set of "I know it's bad, but other people are worse!". That's a really easy way to start making excuses that will put you right back in the hole you're trying to climb out of, and I feel like it's been part of your "financial problem" from the start. "I'm no Slow Motion! I'm not as bad as X!".

It doesn't just smell bad; it's an extremely strong mildew smell permeating over the entire house since the maintenance people couldn't be bothered to put a fan on the carpet. We have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Max-Storm-Carpet-Drying-Airflow/dp/B007T01JJK underneath our master bedroom carpet. It's sitting right in the entryway, it makes the entire room's carpet lift about 2 feet off the ground, we're not supposed to walk on it, it's 5 feet from where we sleep, and it is likely in the 60-80db+ range. Our bedroom door is off. Tack strip is exposed. The fan has to be on for the next 48 hours. We have at least 5 more visits from plumbers, drywallers, linoleum installers, carpet cleaners, carpet installers, cement pourers, and maintenance. They may have to redo the flooring in the living room, dining room, and kitchen, with our dogs freaking out the entire time since we have no good place to put them. Cement particles are loving everywhere including our bed, our pillows, our couch, everything. But hella no problem. C'mon guys no one here is living in our apartment in our situation.

[/Rant]

On a positive my boss told me he probably over charged me for insurance, but just caught it. Looking at a ~$300 unexpected backpay on the 7th or 22nd of November.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006
Now just think! You can spend a few hundred thousand dollars on a house and when this happens not only will you be just as upset you will have to pay for everyone to come out and fix it!

I agree it's a pretty lovely situation to be in, but poo poo happens and it actually sounds like your landlord is doing a great job. Wait for that to happen at a house rental that's just a random person and not run by a management organization and wait to see how long it takes to get it fixed. And they will only want to work on weekends in the morning because that's when they're off.

EDIT: To your point. If it was me I would probably end up staying at a friends, relatives, or renting a hotel room for a few nights. But I'm not broke with 5 pets and a baby on the way. It's almost as if the decision you've made in your past do affect your future even if you just want to scream "I can change guys! I can change! That was old me!".

Bugamol fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Oct 28, 2014

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Bugamol posted:

Now just think! You can spend a few hundred thousand dollars on a house and when this happens not only will you be just as upset you will have to pay for everyone to come out and fix it!

I agree it's a pretty lovely situation to be in, but poo poo happens and it actually sounds like your landlord is doing a great job. Wait for that to happen at a house rental that's just a random person and not run by a management organization and wait to see how long it takes to get it fixed. And they will only want to work on weekends in the morning because that's when they're off.

EDIT: To your point. If it was me I would probably end up staying at a friends, relatives, or renting a hotel room for a few nights. But I'm not broke with 5 pets and a baby on the way. It's almost as if the decision you've made in your past do affect your future even if you just want to scream "I can change guys! I can change! That was old me!".

Lol but it'd be different if it were mine, because then at least the house would be getting a plumbing and flooring improvement. I've lived in a landlord owned house and I know exactly what it's like. I've gone two days without a heater in the middle of a frigid winter. Our landlord is doing a great job, but don't trivialize the situation with "Knyteguy said it kind of smells heh", because that's hyperbole.

I'm not broke either.

This isn't an "I can change guys" any longer. It's an I have changed. I'm not sure why you keep implying we've made 0 progress because that's just false.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006
You have made, at best, two months of "progress". Since this thread has started you've shown on multiple occasions that you can make that money disappear in a weekend.

You dropped a bomb literally weeks ago about debt you hadn't ever previously talked about. From a dollars standpoint you're actually much further behind now than you were previously.

From an attitude perspective I'm still on the fence. You've proven since the beginning of the thread you can talk the talk. However you've yet to prove you can go through with long term lifestyle changes. It's hard to tell if you're still on a fad Atkins diet, or if you've actually made serious long term changes. You're like the person everyone has in their life that comes in talking loudly about how they've changed there ways, they're exercising, they're eating better, and they've lost 20 pounds! Only to come back 6 months later having gained 30 pounds.

That being said. I'm hopeful for you as I have been since the beginning of the thread. I hope that you move, everything goes well, your wife births a healthy baby, goes back to work (or stays home), and that you can continue on the long path of debt repayment as well as saving for your house.

However your attitude of "I don't need this thread anymore I saved money for 45 days guys" is pretty stupid, and is when I'm so cynical about your thread and recent posts.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Bugamol posted:

You have made, at best, two months of "progress". Since this thread has started you've shown on multiple occasions that you can make that money disappear in a weekend.

You dropped a bomb literally weeks ago about debt you hadn't ever previously talked about. From a dollars standpoint you're actually much further behind now than you were previously.

From an attitude perspective I'm still on the fence. You've proven since the beginning of the thread you can talk the talk. However you've yet to prove you can go through with long term lifestyle changes. It's hard to tell if you're still on a fad Atkins diet, or if you've actually made serious long term changes. You're like the person everyone has in their life that comes in talking loudly about how they've changed there ways, they're exercising, they're eating better, and they've lost 20 pounds! Only to come back 6 months later having gained 30 pounds.

That being said. I'm hopeful for you as I have been since the beginning of the thread. I hope that you move, everything goes well, your wife births a healthy baby, goes back to work (or stays home), and that you can continue on the long path of debt repayment as well as saving for your house.

However your attitude of "I don't need this thread anymore I saved money for 45 days guys" is pretty stupid, and is when I'm so cynical about your thread and recent posts.

We've been doing really good since June when we came back. We've steadily been saving. No I'm not perfect, but progress is progress. August was 3 months ago and that was our best month yet.

Medical debt previous mentions:
September 2014
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3586966&pagenumber=25&perpage=40#post434413688
December 2013
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3586966&pagenumber=5&perpage=40#post422824993

I don't expect everyone to remember every detail, but I also don't like being told I haven't mentioned something because of that fact. Hell I even said I mentioned it in the thread before very recently.

I also don't think I don't "need" the thread, but it's gets old having to repeat myself or clarify stuff, so I'm trying to take a step back from it a bit. I think I've done a pretty good job still keeping everything active, too.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006
The hard savings I see are $3,535 $1,100 of which is HSA. From a post on October 14th. You keep doing this thing where you're saying that you've earmarked or counted November savings which is stupid because it's not November and you have no idea what you're really going to spend in the next 30-40 days.

So realistically you've "saved" $2,435 since as you claim "June". So in 4 months you've saved $600 a month. Now considering you're going to have to break your lease $1,200 and put down a $1,600 deposit. Let's say you get half your current deposit back ($250) and a free 7 days of rent from your current issue ($200). You've saved $85 from the start of this thread or $21.25 a month. Unless my math is wrong.

EDIT: The math 2435-1200-1600+250+200. This also assume you don't pay a single day of double rent. Or any other deposits moving expenses like paying for a postal key ($50 where I live), deposit for energy or gas ($250 for energy and $50 for gas where I live). Etc, etc, etc. Extra money spent eating out because you're still unpacking.

Bugamol fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Oct 29, 2014

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Bugamol posted:

The hard savings I see are $3,535 $1,100 of which is HSA. From a post on October 14th. You keep doing this thing where you're saying that you've earmarked or counted November savings which is stupid because it's not November and you have no idea what you're really going to spend in the next 30-40 days.

So realistically you've "saved" $2,435 since as you claim "June". So in 4 months you've saved $600 a month. Now considering you're going to have to break your lease $1,200 and put down a $1,600 deposit. Let's say you get half your current deposit back ($250) and a free 7 days of rent from your current issue ($200). You've saved $85 from the start of this thread or $21.25 a month. Unless my math is wrong.

EDIT: The math 2435-1200-1600+250+200. This also assume you don't pay a single day of double rent. Or any other deposits moving expenses like paying for a postal key ($50 where I live), deposit for energy or gas ($250 for energy and $50 for gas where I live). Etc, etc, etc. Extra money spent eating out because you're still unpacking.

But we're a month ahead. That's > $4,700 that we actually have. If we don't want to roll a month ahead that $4,700 can be counted as an emergency fund. Which it really is considering an emergency fund should cover X months. It's even more valuable than that since it covers a way higher than expected November savings rate. The money is still there even if for some reason November is like $200 more expensive.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006

Knyteguy posted:

But we're a month ahead. That's > $4,700 that we actually have. If we don't want to roll a month ahead that $4,700 can be counted as an emergency fund. Which it really is considering an emergency fund should cover X months. It's even more valuable than that since it covers a way higher than expected November savings rate. The money is still there even if for some reason November is like $200 more expensive.

By "a month ahead" do you mean you have $4,700 in your checking account that you could use immediately or that you could theoretically not pay your bills for a month, and accrue cash over the course of a month, because you're paying them when they post and not when they're due?

Bugamol fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Oct 29, 2014

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Bugamol posted:

By "a month ahead" do you mean you have $4,700 in your checking account that you could use immediately or that you could theoretically not pay your bills for a month, and accrue cash over the course of a month, because you're paying them when they post and not when they're due?

We have $4,700 in cash in our checking account for immediate use. We just have the actual dollars budgeted and earmarked for expenses and savings next month. Money will automatically transfer into the correct savings accounts on the 1st of November.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006

Knyteguy posted:

We have $4,700 in cash in our checking account for immediate use. We just have the actual dollars budgeted and earmarked for expenses and savings next month. Money will automatically transfer into the correct savings accounts on the 1st of November.

Well that explains my confusion. You're doing much better off than I thought. I apologize for wasting your time explaining it to me. That's what I get with not reading every post in the thread when work got hectic.

EDIT: I blame the fact that you stopped using my excel template. :lol:

Bugamol fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Oct 29, 2014

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal

Bugamol posted:

Well that explains my confusion. You're doing much better off than I thought. I apologize for wasting your time explaining it to me. That's what I get with not reading every post in the thread when work got hectic.

EDIT: I blame the fact that you stopped using my excel template. :lol:

Meh all good. I totally understand if everyone doesn't catch all of the details; this thread isn't 5 pages anymore. It just helps me if I can explain stuff like this in sweeps instead of multiple times a day (and I don't mean just to you). I'm glad you acknowledged some progress since that's affirmation for myself too which is helpful. You've been here since the very first page even and that's a lot to take in so I think you get even more slack.

Argh yea I like the spreadsheet but it limits budgeting to just myself since my wife had trouble picking it up and entering expenses. I would like to go back to it once we're in more of a maintenance mode and tracking things daily isn't really necessary (since we won't have daily transactions! :v:) since it has some really good stuff like total in/out and interest calculations.

CuddleChunks
Sep 18, 2004

Ask your rental agency to put you up at a hotel for the next couple nights while they do the work to fix the place. If the bathroom isn't usable because of the work that usually renders the place "unlivable" while they are repairing things.

No idea what to do with your pack of animals. Put them up at a temporary boarding place I guess.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

CuddleChunks posted:

No idea what to do with your pack of animals. Put them up at a temporary boarding place I guess.

He has FIVE pets. Most places are at least $20/night/animal. He's looking at $100 a night minimum.

Robo Boogie Bot
Sep 4, 2011
He also has a spare bedroom he could sleep in instead of the one that is ripped up and full of mildew.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal
Yea not worth it to try to get a hotel now. One more night I think of the house being a problem. I think linoleum guys fixed up the bathroom today.

Approved for the house. Unfortunately the office manager lied to me (or just completely forgot in a little over a day?) when she said we didn't need to give notice. We do need to give 30 days notice. Probably will work out to be about the same cost - maybe a little cheaper with a rent credit if we get one.

Cool.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal
Signing the lease on Saturday morning. Put in notice for the apartment today.

Got a $107 credit for the apartment being a wreck.

Move-in day is the 14th of November. Have the apartment until Nov 29th.

Colin Mockery
Jun 24, 2007
Rawr



How's your November been so far? Have a gut estimate of your spending yet?

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006

Knyteguy posted:

Signing the lease on Saturday morning. Put in notice for the apartment today.

Got a $107 credit for the apartment being a wreck.

Move-in day is the 14th of November. Have the apartment until Nov 29th.

I think you previously mentioned you can break your lease at any time without notice. Any particular reason you're keeping it for an extra 15 days of double rent?

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

Bugamol posted:

I think you previously mentioned you can break your lease at any time without notice. Any particular reason you're keeping it for an extra 15 days of double rent?
Literally one post above the one you quoted:

Knyteguy posted:

Unfortunately the office manager lied to me (or just completely forgot in a little over a day?) when she said we didn't need to give notice. We do need to give 30 days notice. Probably will work out to be about the same cost - maybe a little cheaper with a rent credit if we get one.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006
Oops. That's what I get for skimming and not fully reading posts. I am the worst.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal
Hey everyone not going to go into too much with the finances since we don't have internet yet and my desktop isn't even hooked up. I'll just say that moving is expensive, but this place is worth every penny already.

Here's a couple pictures of the place as requested by a couple people in Grouco's thread. I'll post more in the next couple days including the.old apartment compared to this house.


This is the view from our new garage. Nice mountain. My childhood home is about a quarter mile from here so good.memories of the mountain.


Front yard and front of home. Just got finished mowing and edging it. Need.to pick up a rake to finish since our mower doesn't have a grass collector.

Already much happier.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

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Toilet Rascal
~Photo Log~


As requested. This is our puppy. 9 months now though, actually. Mutts are loving the yard. We're loving being able to put them outside without having to leash them up to go to the bathroom every hour.

Edit:

Veskit posted:

Holy poo poo that's an Australian Cattle dog hahahaha Knyteguy you never cease to amaze me. That fucker is a land shark no wonder he has so much energy. It's clearly mixed but it's definintely mostly aussy cattle and mixed with possibly border collie for maximum rear end in a top hat energy kind of dogs.



Adorable none the less :3:

Yep she's definitely a crazy one.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 17, 2014

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!
Holy poo poo that's an Australian Cattle dog hahahaha Knyteguy you never cease to amaze me. That fucker is a land shark no wonder he has so much energy. It's clearly mixed but it's definintely mostly aussy cattle and mixed with possibly border collie for maximum rear end in a top hat energy kind of dogs.



Adorable none the less :3:

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Veskit posted:

Holy poo poo that's an Australian Cattle dog hahahaha Knyteguy you never cease to amaze me. That fucker is a land shark no wonder he has so much energy. It's clearly mixed but it's definintely mostly aussy cattle and mixed with possibly border collie for maximum rear end in a top hat energy kind of dogs.



Adorable none the less :3:

Looks more Australian Shepherd (Aussie) than ACD (Heeler) to me. Only moderately mouthy in comparison, though still pretty active.

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!

Engineer Lenk posted:

Looks more Australian Shepherd (Aussie) than ACD (Heeler) to me. Only moderately mouthy in comparison, though still pretty active.

I thought Sheps were way bigger like 80 pound dogs on top of having the long hair. It'd explain why the dog is a nutbag though with either breed.

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Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Veskit posted:

I thought Sheps were way bigger like 80 pound dogs on top of having the long hair. It'd explain why the dog is a nutbag though with either breed.

Minimal exercise and training (unless something has radically changed) explains why the dog is a nutbag. Herding breed just amps it up a lot.

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