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Oxxidation posted:This guy gets me. *double pistols + wink* Meet me in the friendship locker. We'll braid our hair and poo poo
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Nov 17, 2014 22:40
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thexerox123 posted:Have a story in which they only need human heads to convert them, and have the Doctor come upon something like the hall of heads from Return to Oz: I always thought the one scary bit regarding Cybermen came from Age of Steel. Where they break the inhibitor or whatever they called it, and it's just some woman in there, and she's talking about how it's the night before her wedding and she doesn't want the groom to see her, and keeps repeating that it's so cold. The thing they could really delve into if they wanted to make the Cybermen horrifying is the aspect of how the people are still in there, and they're irreversibly ruined now, but they could still have some inkling of what's going on and what their lives used to be. At least to me, that's the only thing that could make them worse than Daleks. Daleks just vaporize you, it's a quick clean death, Cybermen have the potential to entomb you in some living hell. But maybe that's too dark for Doctor Who.
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Nov 17, 2014 22:42
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Burkion posted:Meet me in the friendship locker. We'll braid our hair and poo poo Ewww. (yes I'm a child) StarkRavingMad posted:Cybermen have the potential to entomb you in some living hell. But maybe that's too dark for Doctor Who. And yeah, it's an audio story, but Spare Parts has a bit in it that's similar to this, if I recall correctly. Can't find a story synopsis but I remember one of the young girls in the family that The Doctor runs into gets cyber converted and runs into her family again at some point, where it's clear she recognizes them and...that's all I remember, honestly, besides the feeling that it was a rather depressing part. McGann fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Nov 17, 2014 |
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Nov 17, 2014 23:25
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I think it might be a sign you're too invested in a TV show when you start thinking sad endings and plot twists are done maliciously to spite you.
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Nov 18, 2014 01:18
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2house2fly posted:I think it might be a sign you're too invested in a TV show when you start thinking sad endings and plot twists are done maliciously to spite you. I dunno. While I kind of agree that people are reaching in this specific instance, it's not really unheard of for TV shows to engage with the audience in weird ways. Genre television tends to create really close, really weird bonds with its fans. Especially now that the internet's a thing. Supernatural famously did a whole episode about the show's fandom and how gross a lot of the fan fiction is. Doctor Who has a history of it too. Most prominently in The Psychic Circus, a story from the late eighties that sort of allegorically dealt with the show's history and fandom. Said fans were basically depicted as a gormless nostalgic dweeb who is hilariously exploded. Heck, Steven Moffat dedicated a surprising amount of time in The Empty Hearse to a joke about/goof on Sherlock fans that some people thought was kind of mean-spirited or malicious. e: To be fair, he was kind of asking to be exploded: 
Republican Vampire fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 01:50
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Republican Vampire posted:Doctor Who has a history of it too. Most prominently in The Psychic Circus, a story from the late eighties that sort of allegorically dealt with the show's history and fandom. Said fans were basically depicted as a gormless nostalgic dweeb who is hilariously exploded. You mean the much more hilariously on the nose title of The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
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Nov 18, 2014 01:55
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You mean the much more hilariously on the nose title of The Greatest Show in the Galaxy Yeah, I dunno how I misremembered that. It's such a memorably terrible title.
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Nov 18, 2014 01:56
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mind the walrus posted:Point being that you could translate that "cobbled together from whatever is handy just to get another 30 seconds of life" aesthetic instead of this The 80s Cybermen always gave me more of a  British Darth Vader vibe. I think British Iron Man is revival only. 
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Nov 18, 2014 02:01
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Cybermen would probably be more interesting if they were pounded to poo poo by the Time War Daleks and trying to turn the Earth into their next home planet. Basically, evil Transformers without all the morphing into cars. But we went through RTD's era with the Daleks being the Never Say Die survivalist race bent on upping their numbers by smashing people into salt shakers, or ripping organs off Davros, etc.
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Nov 18, 2014 02:37
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Annakie can we have a rule that if you mention Spare Parts you get trapped in a mirror prison forever
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Nov 18, 2014 03:05
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Alright, solid second to last position now! Just two more points to the bottom! I didn't even like this episode, but I thought the giant cyberman would be up Occ's alley. Unfortunately I guess I forgot how much he (understandably) hates the Cybermen. AndwhatIseeisme fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 03:09
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Really I feel like the biggest problem with the Cyberman is that decent villains usually serve as some kind of foil for the protagonist, which is something they fail at. While often misused the Daleks and The Master have at least some presence and are usually portrayed as opposite yet in some ways similar to the Doctor and in better stories develop his character in someway. Modern Cybermen are just Borg-lite which while kind of ironic given the Borg's biggest influence, is neither interesting nor well conceived. They in general don't much in the way of personality and in no way are they ever threatening, they're just there because of nostalgia I guess. They don't really work as foils because their only character trait is "I want to convert more people into Cyberman" which isn't the worst motive, but they need more to work with. The Borg were at least threatening because they were a ticking time bomb waiting to go off and no one could really present much of a threat to them (save for crazy coffee lady, gently caress you Voyager), The Doctor foils the Cybermen on a regular basis with a speech and a some screwdrivering. Never have I ever once felt that there were any real stakes with the Cybermen and that sucks. Also the existence of the Daleks make them sort of redundant, being a big scary hive like menace with a disregard for others lives and individuality. They're different in concept but not enough to be interesting in any way. I guess my big complaint with them is that we don't really know much about what modern Cyberman are beyond humans made cyborgs and they're not menacing or mysterious enough to make that fact interesting. Also the new suits are sort of lazy I guess.
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Nov 18, 2014 03:39
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Season 2 Concept Art: a direction they decided not to take the Cybermen in, probably because it'd be too freaky for the kids:
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Nov 18, 2014 04:23
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I don't think it was intentional at all, but I loved that thanks to better quality tvs you can now watch the original Cybermen stories and see the human eyes behind the Cybermen mask, which looked like they had a kind of frantic desperation (probably because it was hot as hell inside the costume) behind the emotionless exterior.
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Nov 18, 2014 04:26
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MikeJF posted:Season 2 Concept Art: a direction they decided not to take the Cybermen in, probably because it'd be too freaky for the kids: You know, I suspect budget more than anything else might have been the decision behind not using this one. The makeup and prosthetic costs for doing that design with every single Cyberman every day of filming would just be hideously impractical.
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Nov 18, 2014 13:08
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If you had a cyberman cast of 4 or 5, it would be fine I think. It's when you have to try and show loads of them, Army of Ghosts style, that it becomes problematic. I mean, it's no worse really than the Sycorax or Slitheen masks.
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Nov 18, 2014 14:06
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Soothing Vapors posted:Annakie can we have a rule that if you mention Spare Parts you get trapped in a mirror prison forever If only I had that power...
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Nov 18, 2014 15:12
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Annakie posted:If only I had that power... "Yes... Yes... To hold in my hand, a capsule that contains such power... To know that life and death on such a scale was my choice... To know that the tiny pressure of my thumb - enough to break the glass - would end everything... Yes! I would do it! That power would set me up above the gods! AND THROUGH THE FORUMS, I SHALL HAVE THAT POWER!"
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Nov 18, 2014 16:05
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MikeJF posted:Season 2 Concept Art: a direction they decided not to take the Cybermen in, probably because it'd be too freaky for the kids: Soothing Vapors posted:Annakie can we have a rule that if you mention Spare Parts you get trapped in a mirror prison forever 
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Nov 18, 2014 16:22
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Toxxupation posted:plus the thing about communism is that it's appealing, that's why it has been implemented as a system of government, if cybermen came down and went "you'd live forever and look exactly the same, and be super strong and powerful, at the cost of your emotions" there'd be a moral ambiguity where people would legitimately want to be them I think it's interesting that sci-fi goes down this road so often - "logic vs. emotions regarding intelligence" There's clearly a sort of cultural fascination and perhaps a good deal of historical reasons for setting those up as a dichotomy - even though they're not a dichotomy, in either the strictest logical sense or even the looser sense. We're finding out, as we research and understand intelligence more and more, is that emotional states are not separate from intelligence, but rather an inseparable component of the overall emergent property we call intelligence. Certainly, you can set up a series of logical commands and follow them through to completion, but building the kind of complex behavior that we would recognize as a social intelligence seems to actively require a kind of background set of assumptions and guidelines that change based on starting conditions - that our brains interpret as emotional states. This is a more complex subject, of course, and breaking down complex subjects into digestible sci-fi bites is hard to do.
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Nov 18, 2014 18:25
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The thing is, and this is something that Doctor Who *REALLY* hasn't gotten right about Cybermen since the 60s, the Cybermen *ARE NOT LOGICAL BEINGS*. They don't work on what's logical, they don't give a poo poo about what's logical. That's what's terrifying about them- they put up the pretense, but if they were really logical, they'd all just lay down and die. The fact that they have gone so far beyond what they were, the fact that there isn't a single of the original Cybermen left alive and yet they still keep lurching on like zombies, speaks to how illogical they are. They don't care about logic, they care about SURVIVAL. You Muzzt Be Like Uzz BECAUSE WE MUZZT SURVIVE You question them about what's logical about that, and at best they'll bitch slap you. The Cybermen have, largely, stripped away their emotions, but that doesn't mean they're super logic bots. The sooner they return to that desperate, horrific survival at any cost method, the better. Sadly I don't think we're ever going to see those Cybermen again. Just the lovely borg rip offs who also look like loving Iron Man.
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Nov 18, 2014 18:38
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The Cybermen were okay during the Troughton years, in my opinion, but when they came back during Baker's era and were the incompetent "EXXXCELLENT!!" Cybermen, it was over. They're best used for a little bit of body horror and when there's a kind of uncanny valley thing going for the way they talk, look and move. That's why a lot of people prefer the way they talk in the Hartnell years, although I actually think it's a little too forced. They're really tough to get right and as far as recurring villains go, should probably always have been used rarely. The Daleks are similar in that there are maybe two or three stories where they're actually "scary" and they should probably have been played for comedy the rest of the time. At this point, I wouldn't mind taking like a two or three year hiatus from the both of them. It would give them a chance to work on some new spooky bad guys or to bring back some of the more rarely used ones in interesting ways.
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Nov 18, 2014 19:22
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The saddest thing about the Daleks is that one of their potentially best stories doesn't actually exist anymore because of the BBC being dogshit.
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Nov 18, 2014 19:34
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Burkion posted:The saddest thing about the Daleks is that one of their potentially best stories doesn't actually exist anymore because of the BBC being dogshit. Yup. If we're talking about the same one, it's genuinely creepy, is the first regeneration story, and it's a drat shame that only the audio and stills are still around.
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Nov 18, 2014 19:44
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Burkion posted:The saddest thing about the Daleks is that one of their potentially best stories doesn't actually exist anymore because of the BBC being dogshit. Three*
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Nov 18, 2014 20:30
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Bicyclops posted:At this point, I wouldn't mind taking like a two or three year hiatus from the both of them. It would give them a chance to work on some new spooky bad guys or to bring back some of the more rarely used ones in interesting ways. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a contact saying they have to have at least one episode featuring Daleks or Cybermen as the villains every year.
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Nov 18, 2014 20:56
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Xenoborg posted:I wouldn't be surprised if there was a contact saying they have to have at least one episode featuring Daleks or Cybermen as the villains every year. There is in fact a legal requirement with the estate of Terry Nation that the Daleks must appear every season.
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Nov 18, 2014 21:24
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Cybermen have no such excuse
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Nov 18, 2014 21:29
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To pull away from the Cyberman chat, have Occ/Toxx watched the Doctor Who Tv film from 96 yet? Just curious.
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Nov 18, 2014 21:58
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Thunderfinger posted:To pull away from the Cyberman chat, have Occ/Toxx watched the Doctor Who Tv film from 96 yet? Just curious. And if not, don't. It's poo poo.
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Nov 18, 2014 21:59
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Thunderfinger posted:To pull away from the Cyberman chat, have Occ/Toxx watched the Doctor Who Tv film from 96 yet? Just curious. Oh boy have I I especially liked the part where it turns out that mordin is responsible for the genophage
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Nov 18, 2014 22:04
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Although I have a question about when the daleks are supposed to show up, is that before or after the trip to virmire
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Nov 18, 2014 22:06
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Yvonmukluk posted:There is in fact a legal requirement with the estate of Terry Nation that the Daleks must appear every season. Are they legally required to have a Dalek-centric script every season or just make sure a Dalek pops up in at least one story per year?
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Nov 18, 2014 22:07
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Are they legally required to have a Dalek-centric script every season or just make sure a Dalek pops up in at least one story per year? The latter, I think. I may be misremebering future seasons, but I think in at least one of them the Daleks don't get a full episode to themselves.
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Nov 18, 2014 22:13
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What happens if they anger Terry Nations? Will the estate sell the Daleks to Eastenders?
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Nov 18, 2014 22:17
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Dr Suntory posted:What happens if they anger Terry Nations? Will the estate sell the Daleks to Eastenders? Yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQCeMIQpFBc
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Nov 18, 2014 22:20
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Toxxupation posted:Although I have a question about when the daleks are supposed to show up, is that before or after the trip to virmire It only happens if you kill Wrex, so hardly anyone knows about it.
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Nov 18, 2014 22:41
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Prison Warden posted:It only happens if you kill Wrex, so hardly anyone knows about it. Pfft, nobody kills Wrex. You manipulate Ashley into doing it, yell at her about it, then leave her to die on Virmire, thus avoiding taking the blame and getting "justice" 
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Nov 18, 2014 22:54
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My biggest regret in life is choosing Ashley over Kaiden. what was I thinking
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Nov 18, 2014 23:02
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Big Mean Jerk posted:My biggest regret in life is choosing Ashley over Kaiden. at least you can correct this
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Nov 18, 2014 23:06
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