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Spiritus Nox posted:Goku and Vegeta know what laws are? Goku tried to get a drivers license. He knows of laws and respects them
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Nov 19, 2014 05:26
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In It For The Tank posted:I'm pretty sure he killed one of Freeza's soldiers not long after the gang arrive on Namek. Even if he didn't, that's still one more than Piccolo. He only killed Goku, Raditz, and one of the Saiabmen. Given how many people have tried that over the years, it's a fairly substantial achievement. The only other guy in that club is Cell, and he got waxed by Gohan five minutes later. Like, I'm pretty sure killing your rival and training his son as your own apprentice is basically winning at Dragon Ball.
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Nov 19, 2014 05:27
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oknope posted:Goku tried to get a drivers license. He knows of laws and respects them You see him driving an episode or two after this, actually, so he didn't just "try"
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Nov 19, 2014 05:35
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My favorite thing about Vegeta is that, as much as Toriyama wanted to be rid of him at first, the fans' love of the character turned him into one of the most well-written people in the entire franchise. It gave Toriyama one of his biggest writing challenges of his career and he definitely nailed it.
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Nov 19, 2014 05:40
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Spiritus Nox posted:Goku and Vegeta know what laws are? That is some kind of food right?
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Nov 19, 2014 05:41
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Given that Vegeta lives with Bulma in the city, I'm sure he's better adjusted on human culture than Goku.
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Nov 19, 2014 06:03
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Given that Vegeta lives with Bulma in the city, I'm sure he's better adjusted on human culture than Goku. Vegeta isn't brain damaged either. 
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Nov 19, 2014 06:27
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Vegita was raised as a noble before his planet blew up, then after that happened he was adopted and started working for Freeza so I'm sure he's quite familiar with rules and laws. Vegeta, however, is also an rear end in a top hat and knows how to blow things up with his hands, so he also chooses to ignore them.
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Nov 19, 2014 06:40
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It's kind of sad that vegetas only real choice in friends is either a brain damaged savant or Yamcha.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:04
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:It's kind of sad that vegetas only real choice in friends is either a brain damaged savant or Yamcha. Considering he killed his other one it's really not
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Nov 19, 2014 07:13
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Sonata Mused posted:Freeza, no longer a fighting threat to Goku and Vegeta, gets a job and slowly climbs the corporate ladder until he becomes a super powerful CEO. He uses his new wealth and influence to crush Capsule Corp and buy up all of Goku's land. Vegeta and Goku try to fight him, but he's protected by the law. So, what you're saying is the movie should be a crossover between DBZ and The Devil Is A Part-Timer. I could live with that.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:49
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:So, what you're saying is the movie should be a crossover between DBZ and The Devil Is A Part-Timer. Don't gently caress with the purple alien or he'll Freeza all your assets.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:50
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:It's kind of sad that vegetas only real choice in friends is either a brain damaged savant or Yamcha. How do you figure, exactly? e: I actually never knew until just now that Piccolo's name was the obvious musical instrument pun. I thought it was supposed to sound like "pickle" because he's green. 
SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 07:59
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SALT CURES HAM posted:How do you figure, exactly? Hahaha
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Nov 19, 2014 08:55
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SALT CURES HAM posted:I actually never knew until just now that Piccolo's name was the obvious musical instrument pun. I thought it was supposed to sound like "pickle" because he's green. It's more apparent in Dragonball, where his father Piccolo Sr. has children named Drum, Cymbal, and Tambourine.
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Nov 19, 2014 09:07
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:My favorite thing about Vegeta is that, as much as Toriyama wanted to be rid of him at first, the fans' love of the character turned him into one of the most well-written people in the entire franchise. It gave Toriyama one of his biggest writing challenges of his career and he definitely nailed it. No, Vegeta actually isn't written that well. I cracked the code a long time ago.  At the beginning of every story arc, Vegeta is strong. Generally stronger than everyone else. Then, he gets a chance to show off how strong he is. Then, he gets his rear end beat. Training session later, and he's back and stronger than ever! OH NO, NEW FORM/ENEMY APPEARS! Vegeta gets chumped, cries about it, is irrelevant for the rest of the big fight aside from like...one moment in the sun. Bad guy dies, Vegeta survives, is a dick about things. Repeat. The only shining moments of Vegeta being something more involve his family. We have future trunks eating a beam, kid Trunks actually pushing him a bit during a training session and getting punched for it, kid Trunks/Goten getting knocked out in Buu stuff, and then Battle of Gods had the most interesting Vegeta ever. Dude was willing to drat near eat poo poo until dog dude hit his wife. Do not be fooled by Vegeta's tears. He cries a lot. Not to say anyone else in the series is written much better, mind you, but I've heard so many people pull out the "Vegeta had a character arc" thing like it means something. He did indeed have an arc. Except it was the same arc against every villain.
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Nov 19, 2014 09:24
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Shinjobi posted:No, Vegeta actually isn't written that well. I cracked the code a long time ago.   Holy poo poo, he's right.
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Nov 19, 2014 09:52
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That actually only happened twice in the Cell saga.  Most people remember Vegeta the most for his role in the Buu saga, so while he actually isn't that well written of a character (he's the archetypical shonen rival after all), he gets a better rap than the rest.
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Nov 19, 2014 10:19
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:Watch it be retconned that goku and frieza were tapping into godpower during their battle on namek and both of them were actually stronger than most of the buu saga cast. Wait. So Krillin would be responsible for creating a god? -------------- I just finally saw Battle of the Gods and I realized why he was so surprised that Freiza was defeated; the guy was legit training him to be his protege, even having Freiza go so far as to prove himself as a qualified candidate for the next God of Destruction. The entire movie seems like Toriyama providing character study of Goku by way of Beerus though. It was surprisingly introspective and tickled my nostalgia in all the ways it should have.
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Nov 19, 2014 10:30
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Shinjobi posted:No, Vegeta actually isn't written that well. I cracked the code a long time ago. While I'd say that Vegeta isn't super well written from an objective standpoint, a lot of this stuff, the being stronger and chumping to the badguy is plot stuff not character stuff.
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Nov 19, 2014 12:08
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Shinjobi posted:No, Vegeta actually isn't written that well. I cracked the code a long time ago. You do realize there's more to a character than how well he punches, right? I can see how DBZ can fool you that way, but there's more going on with Vegeta's personality than anyone else besides Piccolo. Not coincidentally, they're the two best characters. Arsonist Daria fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 12:44
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Prison Warden posted:While I'd say that Vegeta isn't super well written from an objective standpoint, a lot of this stuff, the being stronger and chumping to the badguy is plot stuff not character stuff. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:You do realize there's more to a character than how well he punches, right? I can see how DBZ can fool you that way, but there's more going on with Vegeta's personality than anyone else besides Piccolo. Not coincidentally, they're the two best characters. When his entire character is SAIYAN PRIDE IM BETTER THAN YOU KAKAROT I NEED TO BE THE BEST and him sulking everytime its shattered. There really isn't more.
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Nov 19, 2014 13:03
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There are actually a number of times he realizes Goku is better than him, though. Admitting Goku is the Super Saiyan on Namek, seeing Goku's sacrifice against Cell, and... really all of the Buu Arc.
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Nov 19, 2014 13:23
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:There are actually a number of times he realizes Goku is better than him, though. And the next arc he goes NUH UH IM THE BEST GOKU WATCH OUT and it starts all over again. If he ever truly realized it he wouldn't have sulked became possessed by Babidi kill half the people in the world tournament and release Buu.
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Nov 19, 2014 13:28
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On Namek he was dying and wanted SOMEONE from their race to kill Frieza. Didn't so much learn the lesson then. Against Cell, he stops fighting for a number of years and takes the time to get to know his family, only really getting back into training upon hearing that Goku will be coming back. And he becomes Majin mainly because the insecurities of his emotional defeat are still under the surface, especially since Vegeta up to this point had a relatively stable life, something he'd never had since Frieza decided to blow up his planet. It's sorta like the dad who realizes he's getting old and buys a motorcycle to make himself feel young again. Only the motorcycle is the blood of innocents spilled due to a demonic power increase. I'm pretty sure he realized that Goku was better than him even then, though, since he knocks him out and goes to take care of Buu himself so that Goku doesn't have to expend more energy. On that note, I can't help but wonder: do the people who get wished back from death remember how they died? Because I imagine it'd be pretty traumatic for Cell's victims to remember having their innards sucked out. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 13:42
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:On Namek he was dying and wanted SOMEONE from their race to kill Frieza. Didn't so much learn the lesson then. And after all that he sacrifices himself in an attempt to save the planet he once wanted to destroy out of spite. Anyone who thinks Vegeta doesn't have a long arc seems to be willfully ignoring all of this, but like I said, DBZ has a way of making everything seem to be about punching (because it usually is, really). To the other thing, as traumatic as Cell was, people reacting to their actual extinction as a species must have also been intense. Buu just kills everyone in a moment and they come back later after waiting in line for hours upon hours.
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Nov 19, 2014 14:03
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And let's not forget that, now, Vegeta and Goku are literally best buds who act just like two competitive friends do. The character moments between he and Goku in Yo! Son Goku and BoG are great, especially because their friendship is now exactly like their kids'.
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Nov 19, 2014 15:40
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Sonata Mused posted:Freeza, no longer a fighting threat to Goku and Vegeta, gets a job and slowly climbs the corporate ladder until he becomes a super powerful CEO. He uses his new wealth and influence to crush Capsule Corp and buy up all of Goku's land. Vegeta and Goku try to fight him, but he's protected by the law. The Devil Is A Part-Timer, but with DBZ?
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Nov 19, 2014 15:42
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I want to see Freeza as a legit threat to Goku with the movie giving absolutely no explanation why, just to enrage the Power Level spergers.
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Nov 19, 2014 16:21
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quote:Allow me to show you…… one of the lines from the magazine reveal
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Nov 19, 2014 17:00
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Blockhouse posted:one of the lines from the magazine reveal I think that's another line from the Maximum the Hormone song. Of course, if we ARE getting a new form of Freeza, that's awesome as heck.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:45
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This popped into my head the other week and I fogot until now. Why, once the Super Saiyan form was proven to exist, did Vegeta stop trying to wish for immortality? I mean, Toriyama probably forgot about it and that's it, but it's weird, right?
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Nov 19, 2014 18:05
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Szmitten posted:This popped into my head the other week and I fogot until now. Bulma took the batteries out of the Dragon Radar and hid them from him until he took Trunks to school. He never did, so...
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Nov 19, 2014 18:16
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Szmitten posted:This popped into my head the other week and I fogot until now. It's never really stated outright but presumably since his main reason for wanting immortality in the first place was to depose Frieza (despite immortality not making you stronger but I suppose he could just beef up over time without risk of Frieza offing him before then), once Frieza was out of the picture he didn't give a poo poo anymore.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:17
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TriffTshngo posted:It's never really stated outright but presumably since his main reason for wanting immortality in the first place was to depose Frieza (despite immortality not making you stronger but I suppose he could just beef up over time without risk of Frieza offing him before then), once Frieza was out of the picture he didn't give a poo poo anymore. That and, after Freeza was killed, his life goal was either nothing in particular or getting stronger than Goku - which had nothing to do with how killable Vegeta was. He was never that afraid of death, he was afraid of dying without toppling Freeza.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:22
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:You do realize there's more to a character than how well he punches, right? I can see how DBZ can fool you that way, but there's more going on with Vegeta's personality than anyone else besides Piccolo. Not coincidentally, they're the two best characters. Nope, sorry. Vegeta has flashes of something more here and there, which admittedly is more than Goku, but overall he's a dick who keeps being a dick repeatedly and eventually cries about it. He has his family moments, yep, and he had a nice moment in the Frieza saga where it looked like he was going to die. Saying "there's more going on" doesn't mean Vegeta was written amazingly well. Does he have an arc? Yeah, but saying he has one of the best character arcs in Punch Laser Z doesn't mean it's done particularly well. His best moments, in my opinion, have come from stuff like the movies (where canon may vary) where he's allowed to do more than douche up and screw up plans with his ego. DBGT is horrible for many things, but getting a look at moostache-dad Vegeta is not one of them.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:25
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Shinjobi posted:Nope, sorry. Vegeta has flashes of something more here and there, which admittedly is more than Goku, but overall he's a dick who keeps being a dick repeatedly and eventually cries about it. He has his family moments, yep, and he had a nice moment in the Frieza saga where it looked like he was going to die. Saying "there's more going on" doesn't mean Vegeta was written amazingly well. Does he have an arc? Yeah, but saying he has one of the best character arcs in Punch Laser Z doesn't mean it's done particularly well. His best moments, in my opinion, have come from stuff like the movies (where canon may vary) where he's allowed to do more than douche up and screw up plans with his ego. DBGT is horrible for many things, but getting a look at moostache-dad Vegeta is not one of them. I'm saying his character gave Toriyama his greatest writing challenge. His non-DBZ characters include a cat that is basically Goku and a little girl robot that always wins for joke reasons. He doesn't write complicated characters really often, and he did a fine job with Vegeta.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:30
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None of the characters were particularly deep nor did they need that depth to be great characters in this punch anime. They were well defined and interesting though and Vegeta was probably the most interesting character in DBZ Piccolo was also great but he ended up too much in the background for most of the latter parts of DBZ
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Nov 19, 2014 18:33
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Zzulu posted:Piccolo was also great but he ended up too much in the background for most of the latter parts of DBZ Piccolo manages to keep pace with the Saiyans/villains up until Cell absorbs 17 and stays relevant in the Buu saga for much longer than any other non-Saiyan character. Attempting to be the brains behind Gotenks' brawn is a pretty significant role, and one of my favorite parts of the series personally.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:40
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TriffTshngo posted:It's never really stated outright but presumably since his main reason for wanting immortality in the first place was to depose Frieza (despite immortality not making you stronger but I suppose he could just beef up over time without risk of Frieza offing him before then), once Frieza was out of the picture he didn't give a poo poo anymore. Would an immortal saiyan have some sort of infinity zenkai? Get beaten, regenerate, stronger, got beaten, regenerate, stronger...
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Nov 19, 2014 19:11
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