Straight Marriage Is Illegal Now

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Straight Marriage Is Illegal Now

Apthous: Nov 2, 2014; by XyloJW

Charles Manson applied for a marriage license recently to marry a 26 year old woman. That is a pretty sanctified marriage I must say.

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-charles-manson-gets-marriage-license-215524033.html

# ? Nov 18, 2014 01:17

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 01:32

ColdPie: Jun 9, 2006

Toplowtech posted:

90% in favor of abortion

Small nitpick. Absolutely no one is "in favor of abortion." That's the delusional fantasy of many anti-choicers, and it's wise not to play into their language. It's better to say 90% are in favor of abortion rights, or access to abortion, or whatever.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 02:30

hangedman1984: Jul 25, 2012

ColdPie posted:

Small nitpick. Absolutely no one is "in favor of abortion." That's the delusional fantasy of many anti-choicers, and it's wise not to play into their language. It's better to say 90% are in favor of abortion rights, or access to abortion, or whatever.

A woman's right to choose

# ? Nov 18, 2014 02:39

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

ColdPie posted:

Small nitpick. Absolutely no one is "in favor of abortion." That's the delusional fantasy of many anti-choicers, and it's wise not to play into their language. It's better to say 90% are in favor of abortion rights, or access to abortion, or whatever.

I'm absolutely in favor of abortion.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 02:52

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

ColdPie posted:

Small nitpick. Absolutely no one is "in favor of abortion." That's the delusional fantasy of many anti-choicers, and it's wise not to play into their language. It's better to say 90% are in favor of abortion rights, or access to abortion, or whatever.

i'm in favor of abortions, pre and post-birth

# ? Nov 18, 2014 03:00

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

I'm anti-abortion (except in cases of rape, incest, or the mother's life is in danger) but pro-choice. :v:

# ? Nov 18, 2014 04:24

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

ColdPie posted:

Small nitpick. Absolutely no one is "in favor of abortion." That's the delusional fantasy of many anti-choicers, and it's wise not to play into their language. It's better to say 90% are in favor of abortion rights, or access to abortion, or whatever.

We don't use the exact same neologisms in France, the french term used when you don't want to use the word abortion is IVG "Interruption Volontaire de Grossesse" literally "Voluntary Interruption of Pregnancy".

# ? Nov 18, 2014 09:55

Hedera Helix: Sep 2, 2011; The laws of the fiesta mean nothing!

Cythereal posted:

I'm anti-abortion (except in cases of rape, incest, or the mother's life is in danger) but pro-choice.

So, how effective has this position been in keeping abortion available in the cases you claim it's justified in? :allears:

# ? Nov 18, 2014 16:06

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Hedera Helix posted:

So, how effective has this position been in keeping abortion available in the cases you claim it's justified in?

Note the difference. Whatever my personal feelings about abortion, I believe that neither I nor the government have any business making that decision for women, so I'm wholeheartedly pro-choice.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 17:30

Warrior Princess: Sep 29, 2014; What?

Hedera Helix posted:

So, how effective has this position been in keeping abortion available in the cases you claim it's justified in?

It's like you're surprised that "Pro-Choice / Not Pro-Choice" isn't a switch that can just be flipped between 0 and 1 with no other variables.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 17:33

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Hedera Helix posted:

So, how effective has this position been in keeping abortion available in the cases you claim it's justified in?

Quite good, because what they're saying is they draw a distinction between when they think someone should get an abortion, and when someone should be legally allowed to get an abortion. You can personally think that people shouldn't get abortions while being fervently in favor of it being a personal choice that the government has no business interfering in.

In fact, you'll find that most people who support abortion rights support broader abortion rights than what they personally view as appropriate use of abortion. For example I would find it extremely distasteful for someone to casually use abortion as birth control, yet I would wholeheartedly oppose any restriction on abortion seeking to enforce that distaste in law. Being a smarmy poo poo to those people, your natural allies, is probably extremely ineffective at protecting abortion rights.

Or, to put it in another context: there's many situations where I support free speech where I would probably spit on the speaker rather than shake their hand. My opinions about their opinions shouldn't be law.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 17:54

Madmarker: Jan 7, 2007

Cythereal posted:

Note the difference. Whatever my personal feelings about abortion, I believe that neither I nor the government have any business making that decision for women, so I'm wholeheartedly pro-choice.

I'm much in the same boat. I personally find abortion to be in this weird grey area morally and am against it.....personally. However, as someone not in possession of a uterus, it is not my decision to make. Beyond that, there are large societal costs to people not being allowed to have abortions, as one of my history teachers quipped, "If abortion is made illegal, invest in wire hangers." I won't make someone feel bad for making the choice to have an abortion, its not my place. I won't condemn someone for having one, its a decision I'll never have to face and therefore can't evaluate adequately. Women are marginalized when they are not allowed access to this procedure and because of that I am pro-choice. Its the same logic that makes me never want to take heroin, but still support needle exchanges and decriminalization. It may be something I disagree with, but making it safer is better for all parties.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 17:56

FourLeaf: Dec 2, 2011

Cythereal posted:

I'm anti-abortion (except in cases of rape, incest, or the mother's life is in danger) but pro-choice.

Oh lord. And how in the world do you justify that? Isn't a rape or incest baby worth just as much as a non-rape/incest baby?

E: gently caress it, you've said you're not trying to force this bad opinion on other people so I won't question it.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:15

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

FourLeaf posted:

Oh lord. And how in the world do you justify that? Isn't a rape or incest baby worth just as much as a non-rape/incest baby?

E: gently caress it, you've said you're not trying to force this bad opinion on other people so I won't question it.

Believing that something is wrong but that it should be legal isn't incoherent.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:19

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

FourLeaf posted:

Oh lord. And how in the world do you justify that? Isn't a rape or incest baby worth just as much as a non-rape/incest baby?

E: gently caress it, you've said you're not trying to force this bad opinion on other people so I won't question it.

I regard abortion as an extremely distasteful but sometimes necessary medical procedure. However, I believe that the decision whether or not to have an abortion should be made only by the woman in question, not by me or the government or anyone else.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:40

JazzFlight: Apr 29, 2006; Oooooooooooh!

So how bout that gay marriage, huh?

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:45

zetamind2000: Nov 6, 2007; ~~I'm an alien.~~

JazzFlight posted:

So how bout that gay marriage, huh?

Two days away from South Carolina getting it barring a really last minute appeal.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:46

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

JazzFlight posted:

So how bout that gay marriage, huh?

I wouldn't marry a man but I fully support other men's right to :v:

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:47

FourLeaf: Dec 2, 2011

Pope Guilty posted:

Believing that something is wrong but that it should be legal isn't incoherent.

I'm aware of that. It's irrelevant. What I'm saying is that the belief itself- that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape and incest- is inconsistent, at least if the justification is concern for the life of a fetus.

But, I appreciate that you think abortion should be legal, Cythereal. So my disagreements with your personal beliefs don't really matter.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:50

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

FourLeaf posted:

I'm aware of that. It's irrelevant. What I'm saying is that the belief itself- that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape and incest- is inconsistent, at least if the justification is concern for the life of a fetus.

But, I appreciate that you think abortion should be legal, Cythereal. So my disagreements with your personal beliefs don't really matter.

This is a subject for a different thread.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 18:51

Nostalgia4Infinity: Feb 27, 2007; 10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

Pope Guilty posted:

Believing that something is wrong but that it should be legal isn't incoherent.

But if folks stay silent how will they score sick Internet burns on people?

# ? Nov 18, 2014 19:47

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

JazzFlight posted:

So how bout that gay marriage, huh?

There's still a stubborn line of red preventing a line of Gay Marriage from Sea to Shining Sea, but we're getting closer.
E: Color code explanation:

Dark Blue: Same-sex marriage legal
Medium Blue: Same-sex marriage performed elsewhere recognized (Missouri)
Light Blue: Same-sex marriage legalization pending (South Carolina and Florida)
Beige: Judicial ruling(s) overturning a same-sex marriage ban stayed indefinitely pending appeal (Texas and Arkansas)
Light Red: Same-sex marriage banned contrary to federal circuit precedent (Montana)
Dark Red: Same-sex marriage banned

Chris James 2 posted:

Couples from Ohio filed a motion to the Supreme Court yesterday requesting a review of their case. Today, couples from Tennessee did the same. Couples from Michigan and Kentucky are expected to follow suit early next week.

The Michigan case has gone ahead, and it's possible the Supreme Court might pick this case as the one they rule on because it went through an actual trial:

quote:

The appeal from Detroit-area hospital nurses April DeBoer and Jayne Rowse calls on the court to overturn an appeals court ruling that upheld anti-gay marriage laws in Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio and Tennessee. Michigan officials have said they would not oppose Supreme Court review, but would vigorously defend a provision of the state constitution that prohibits same-sex marriage. The justices also will consider appeals from gay and lesbian plaintiffs in the other three states.

The Kentucky case also involves the right of sex-same couples to marry, but Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway has declined to defend the state ban and Gov. Steve Beshear has hired private attorneys to represent the state. The Ohio appeal focuses on the state's refusal to recognize out-of-state gay marriages because of its own ban, while the Tennessee case is narrowly focused on the rights of three same-sex couples.

Another reason the Michigan case could be attractive to the court is because it went through a full-blown trial. U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman in Detroit struck down the state ban in March. DeBoer and Rowse said they initially filed their federal lawsuit because they could not jointly adopt each other's children. Joint adoption is reserved for married heterosexual couples in Michigan.

They are raising three children, two of whom have special needs, DeBoer and Rowse told the Supreme Court.

I know that would make Nostalgia4Infinity ecstatic.

Mississippi may soon join Oklahoma and Utah in the "Wait how the gently caress did that happen?" department and also get Gay Marriage, although there's almost certainly going to be a shitfit over it somewhere:

quote:

If Reeves issues the injunction, Mississippi will likely ask the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals for a stay, effectively halting gay couples from being able to marry yet again.

Can't be Misssissippi without having to dragged kicking and screaming across the progress line. Still, it means Mississippi can no longer be the default worst state. I think Georgia (Or Michigan) was floated as a replacement. :v:

fade5 fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 18, 2014

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:33

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

fade5 posted:

There's still a stubborn line of red preventing a line of Gay Marriage from Sea to Shining Sea, but we're getting closer.

What exactly do the colors mean on this (besides blue, that is).

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:54

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

evilweasel posted:

What exactly do the colors mean on this (besides blue, that is).

Dark Blue: Same-sex marriage legal
Medium Blue: Same-sex marriage performed elsewhere recognized (Missouri)
Light Blue: Same-sex marriage legalization pending (South Carolina and Florida)
Beige: Judicial ruling(s) overturning a same-sex marriage ban stayed indefinitely pending appeal (Texas and Arkansas)
Light Red: Same-sex marriage banned contrary to federal circuit precedent (Montana)
Dark Red: Same-sex marriage banned

Missouri is kind of a clusterfuck, as is Kansas. Going by Wikipedia, same-sex marriage is legal in St. Louis, Missouri, and in Kansas, twelve counties are complying with a federal court order striking down Kansas's same-sex marriage ban.

quote:

November 4, 2014, a U.S. District Court judge ruled Kansas' ban on same-sex marriage unconstitutional. His ruling was stayed as the state sought a stay pending appeal without success, and it took effect on November 12, 2014.

This would probably be a lot easier if Brownback had lost, but

fade5 fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Nov 18, 2014

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:06

Thesoro: Dec 6, 2005; YOU CANNOT LEARN
TO WHISTLE

So what's going on in Kansas? Gay marriage is both legal and banned?

EDIT: oh okay

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:08

Apthous: Nov 2, 2014; by XyloJW

JazzFlight posted:

So how bout that gay marriage, huh?

Gay marriage shouldn't even be a major issue. The actual amount of gay people in the US is far, far below whatever numbers people are coming up with nowadays. It is something that affects an incredibly small portion of the population. The people making big fusses about how it shouldn't exist have ulterior motives that have nothing to do with homosexuality or whatever.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:09

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA: May 29, 2008

source your quotes

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:13

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

fade5 posted:

Dark Blue: Same-sex marriage legal
Medium Blue: Same-sex marriage performed elsewhere recognized (Missouri)
Light Blue: Same-sex marriage legalization pending South Carolina and Florida)
Beige: Judicial ruling(s) overturning a same-sex marriage ban stayed indefinitely pending appeal (Texas and Arkansas)
Light Red: Same-sex marriage banned contrary to federal circuit precedent (Montana)
Dark Red: Same-sex marriage banned

Missouri is kind of a clusterfuck, as is Kansas. Going by Wikipedia, same-sex marriage is legal in St. Louis, Missouri and in Kansas twelve counties are complying with a federal court order striking down Kansas's same-sex marriage ban.

Very interesting, thanks.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:16

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

4th Circuit denied SC's request for a stay. Unless the Supreme Court grants it, marriages start Thursday.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:54

A. Beaverhausen: Nov 11, 2008; by R. Guyovich

Chris James 2 posted:

4th Circuit denied SC's request for a stay. Unless the Supreme Court grants it, marriages start Thursday.

Woooo! We aren't the worst! (God knows we tried)

# ? Nov 19, 2014 00:25

AYC: Mar 9, 2014; Ask me how I smoke weed, watch hentai, everyday and how it's unfair that governments limits my ability to do this. Also ask me why I have to write in green text in order for my posts to stand out.

A. Beaverhausen posted:

Woooo! We aren't the worst! (God knows we tried)

Pretty sure Mississippi still comes out 1st in all objective measure of worseness.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 02:07

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

AYC posted:

Pretty sure Mississippi still comes out 1st in all objective measure of worseness.

Also, at this point all the states that still have a ban are all objectively the worst, it's just a matter of how bad the black-robed tyrants we've set over them in their particular circuit are.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 02:09

hangedman1984: Jul 25, 2012

JazzFlight posted:

So how bout that gay marriage, huh?

How soon after gay marriage is legal can I marry my dog?

# ? Nov 19, 2014 02:29

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

hangedman1984 posted:

How soon after gay marriage is legal can I marry my dog?

"Priest! Priest, I wish to enter a contract of matrimony with my toaster!"

I wish people were not really making slippery slope arguments over this :smith: