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LaughMyselfTo posted:I'm vaguely scared of those teenagers on Tumblr getting older, not growing up, and influencing policy, though. HAhahah as if they're going to get up and do something instead of just rehearsing and acting out their power fantasies. I don't know much about psych or anything but I get a very negative feeling from Tumblr since two of my friends live with anxiety, OCD and depression, and it seems like Tumblr users really enforce these ideas of "it's totally okay that you never go outside, talk to anyone, it's okay to sit inside with your depression quietly for 28 hours a day ｡◕‿◕｡" Rather than creating a more supportive network aimed at helping one another, you know? That might all sound really confusing but it seems really isolating and supportive of negative behaviours.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:44
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LaughMyselfTo posted:I'm vaguely scared of those teenagers on Tumblr getting older, not growing up, and influencing policy, though. Why are you scared of them? Are you not already scared of the fact that grown adults who are in power right now have really lovely and harmful opinions of stuff? I'm less worried about a teenager who gets really mad over some nonsense issue be in government than the current people who legitimately hate minorities and homosexuals.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:43
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Toriori posted:HAhahah as if they're going to get up and do something instead of just rehearsing and acting out their power fantasies. I don't know much about psych or anything but I get a very negative feeling from Tumblr since two of my friends live with anxiety, OCD and depression, and it seems like Tumblr users really enforce these ideas of "it's totally okay that you never go outside, talk to anyone, it's okay to sit inside with your depression quietly for 28 hours a day ｡◕‿◕｡" Rather than creating a more supportive network aimed at helping one another, you know? That might all sound really confusing but it seems really isolating and supportive of negative behaviours. It seems to me like a big complicated mishmash of various psychological flaws / problems that lead to that kind of mentality, really. I think a primary cause might be people not willing to admit that they have problems or willing to go through the (often massive amounts of) effort required to fix said problems. They wish people would tell them “it’s okay that you have these major emotional issues, you don’t need to go through the work to fix them!” so they tell that to others with similar issues. This then has snowballed into a gigantic echo chamber where nothing is ever wrong with anyone. It might also have something to do with how a lot of people on tumblr seem to enjoy being oppressed? Or at least there’s the gigantic dick-waving contest of who has the least amount of privilege (which at this point may just be a tumblr stereotype and may not be true anymore?) - which seems to be based off of people wanting to garner sympathy /attention from others. YOU may have X problem, but -I- have X, Y, and Z problems: look how strong I am for just existing!
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Nov 19, 2014 20:45
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CodfishCartographer posted:YOU may have X problem, but -I- have X, Y, and Z problems: look how strong I am for just existing! This sort of thing has been around for ages, and it's just as perplexing now as it has ever been. For example, political theorists were scratching their heads when the second wave of feminism started picking up speed in the early 1960's and the whole area of thought started fragmenting rapidly because one scholar would publish something saying "women have it bad" and another would pen an angry response saying "yeah, but lesbian women have it worse," to which a third would say "yeah both of you have it bad but black lesbian women have it the worst," and it just kept going until there were so many goddamn flavors of feminism that it made the catalog of Ben & Jerry's varieties look like a list of what types of canned corn you could buy at the supermarket. It's just something some people do, I guess--grab up as many referents as they can. Members of the millennial generation are especially vulnerable to Referent Quest because they were brought up in a society that taught them that they were unique, special individuals, so of course Tumblr is afire with that kind of poo poo. "I'm a pan-sexual, pro-whatever, yadda yadda yadda." The referents start to become the defining features of their identities and I'm left screaming "GO THE gently caress OUTSIDE AND GET OUT OF THE GODDAMN ECHO CHAMBER"
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Nov 19, 2014 21:15
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:This sort of thing has been around for ages, and it's just as perplexing now as it has ever been. And to top it all off, there's the misuse of intersectionality to make new events in the Oppression Olympics. The real concept is that "a black trans* lesbian is someone who has to deal with prejudices against black people, trans* people, and gay people, not a separate class of person", but the new misuse is "the more oppressed classes I can rack up, the more special and unique I am, and the more I can hate everyone else, so I'm going to literally start making up new classes to codify myself as". Like "transethnic" - white cis-everything people who now think that because they (often pretend to) think they're really another ethnicity, they get to claim that group's problems as their own, so they "win" against white people. I have no-poo poo seen "trans-gay" recently - a straight, cis-gender guy more or less using "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" as his particular Oppression Token. These people don't care about justice, because without the oppression of the groups they try to force themselves into, they wouldn't be special anymore. Let me repeat that more concisely: A lot of the outlandish "SJW" types actually want minorities (real or made-up) to be downtrodden because it gives them targets to lash out against.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:28
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:I have no-poo poo seen "trans-gay" recently - a straight, cis-gender guy more or less using "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" as his particular Oppression Token.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:43
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Henchman of Santa posted:Maybe you're wording it poorly but you can be a trans lesbian. It seemed to me he's talking about a straight male who simply wants to identify as being a female lesbian born with male genitalia. AKA a dude. I don't know if that's a thing or not but I vaguely remember seeing some of that show The L Word and there was a guy who would have sex with women but wouldn't use his dick at all, just dildos because he felt he was a gay woman trapped in a man's body? Was that made up for tv or is this a real thing?
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Nov 19, 2014 21:54
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davebo posted:It seemed to me he's talking about a straight male who simply wants to identify as being a female lesbian born with male genitalia. AKA a dude. I don't know if that's a thing or not but I vaguely remember seeing some of that show The L Word and there was a guy who would have sex with women but wouldn't use his dick at all, just dildos because he felt he was a gay woman trapped in a man's body? Was that made up for tv or is this a real thing? Gender orientation is different from gender identity. It's perfectly possible to be a transwoman and be a lesbian. There's just that dumb "I'm a lesbian in a man's body  " joke that floats around.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:00
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Segmentation Fault posted:Gender orientation is different from gender identity. It's perfectly possible to be a transwoman and be a lesbian. There's just that dumb "I'm a lesbian in a man's body Oh yeah definitely, but I got the impression this was not a trans-woman but a cis-gendered male who was perfectly content being a male, but maybe I need more info on the details. Also trans-ethnic just makes me think of internet otherkin people who think they're dragons.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:04
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Henchman of Santa posted:Maybe you're wording it poorly but you can be a trans lesbian. I literally said "a straight, cis-gender guy". You quoted it. I'm not really sure how much more clear I could be. Segmentation Fault posted:There's just that dumb "I'm a lesbian in a man's body Aaaaah I said that too davebo posted:Oh yeah definitely, but I got the impression this was not a trans-woman but a cis-gendered male who was perfectly content being a male That's exactly what it was. A straight, cis-gender male person who truly believed that they could claim to be "trans-gay" for whatever reason (probably because they thought lesbians were hot), and used that as a reason to claim to be "trans-gay" and thus claim oppression. Happened in an RL conversation, so I can't post screenshots or anything.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:21
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davebo posted:Oh yeah definitely, but I got the impression this was not a trans-woman but a cis-gendered male who was perfectly content being a male, but maybe I need more info on the details. Also trans-ethnic just makes me think of internet otherkin people who think they're dragons. Dude's got it all figured out. Big old ocean of tumblr tail out there, he just figured out what the sharks should look like. Currently experiencing some good odds on scoring odd goods, I bet.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:24
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davebo posted:Oh yeah definitely, but I got the impression this was not a trans-woman but a cis-gendered male who was perfectly content being a male, but maybe I need more info on the details. Also trans-ethnic just makes me think of internet otherkin people who think they're dragons. How can you really say a gay trans woman is actually a cis guy except by their own admission? That said, I have no idea what the gently caress is up with transethnic people. I've heard of white kids growing up in black neighborhoods, raised by black parents, seeing themselves as "black" as anyone else they grew up around, but never of one of these people actually wanting to increase their levels of melanin or whatever. That seems to be a pretty fringe phenomenon.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:27
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:Trans-gay This is great, it's actually so ridiculous that people are legitimately convinced that you/he means something different. No really, there are cishet white men who want so badly to compete in the Oppression Olympics that they will claim to be trans-gay. Not transsexual, not gay, trans-gay. I've only seen it in the form of "I'm straight but I wish I was gay," but I'm not surprised that some guy is saying "I'm really a lesbian so I'm oppressed, STOP SAYING IM NOT A LESBIAN JUST BECAUSE IM A GUY WHY ARE YOU OPPRESSING ME" 
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Nov 19, 2014 22:28
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:How can you really say a gay trans woman is actually a cis guy except by their own admission? Well, just because literally all the information I have about this individual we're talking about is someone who met them in real life saying they are in fact a cis-gendered male. I'm taking him at his word because he knows the guy better than I do? protastic posted:Oppression Olympics I just don't get the appeal of this. What do you get if you win? No one's going to give you a job or sleep with you if you're the right amount of oppressed... right? Speaking of oppression olympics, it's almost war on christmas season. Edit: vv okay thanks. Armed with this new information am I correct in assuming that "people who weren't trans and who were attracted to members of the opposite sex, but who should still be counted as homosexual" are not really a thing I need to be accommodating of in society? davebo has a new favorite as of 22:47 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 22:35
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davebo posted:Well, just because literally all the information I have about this individual we're talking about is someone who met them in real life saying they are in fact a cis-gendered male. I'm taking him at his word because he knows the guy better than I do? Not someone I know. Thank heaven. Context: A bunch of us were watching Stephen the Lesbian on my laptop, and someone nearby started talking about how that was so insulting to "trans-gay" people. We tried to tell him it wasn't talking about transwomen who were lesbians, and he informed us that "trans-gay" people like himself were people who weren't trans and who were attracted to members of the opposite sex, but who should still be counted as homosexual. He wouldn't explain why, even when pressed. I guess I didn't think the whole story was as interesting as the claim itself - sorry for any confusion. quote:I just don't get the appeal of this. What do you get if you win? The right for nothing in your life to ever be your fault.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:42
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davebo posted:I just don't get the appeal of this. What do you get if you win? No one's going to give you a job or sleep with you if you're the right amount of oppressed... right? Speaking of oppression olympics, it's almost war on christmas season. When my toddler falls over, he looks for mommy to make sure she's watching before crying. If she isn't he just gets up and muppets along his merry way. People can fuckin looooove pity sometimes.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:44
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davebo posted:Well, just because literally all the information I have about this individual we're talking about is someone who met them in real life saying they are in fact a cis-gendered male. I'm taking him at his word because he knows the guy better than I do? Pity, an excuse for why you can't work/function socially, a false sense of individuality? The other one-up thing on Tumblr is people constantly coining their own pronouns.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:46
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davebo posted:I just don't get the appeal of this. What do you get if you win? No one's going to give you a job or sleep with you if you're the right amount of oppressed... right? People here have been sort of talking about it, but at least for the Tumblr version it's basically a sadbrains thing. Depression is a bitch, you end up spending all of your time alone, miserable, and convinced that the world hates you. For a lot of people this can lead to very interesting places, which is where a good number of the wackier conspiracy theorists and school shooters. For others it leads to highly selective echo chambers, which constantly reinforce that something is wrong, it isn't your fault, there's nothing you can do about it, but we understand and care. Being told that you don't have to take responsibility for anything is a really sweet deal when everything else in the world seems to be screaming "you are broken, it's your fault, now fix it without any help." Source: personal experience with depression which thankfully only led to depression support groups online, after which I broke from the "don't get diagnosed" dogma and got treatment. E: Kugyou no Tenshi posted:The right for nothing in your life to ever be your fault. Basically this, and the two posts above me. Occupy Sesame Street! has a new favorite as of 22:52 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 22:48
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:Not someone I know. Thank heaven. The whole thing is just really fuckin' confusing. Sometimes I wonder how many of the people who have these rare identities, like trans-gay or trans-ethnic, really feel that way. Most people assume they're just childish and 99% of the time that's probably the correct assessment, but there's got to be a few. I wonder if any psychologist has ever done a study.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:50
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Toriori posted:The other one-up thing on Tumblr is people constantly coining their own pronouns. Oh loving hell this. I think I said it back in the old Tumblr SJW thread that the thing that gets me the most about this is that these people don't realize that all the various pronoun systems that already existed before Tumblr weren't compatible, interchangeable systems, but competing attempts at creating a gender-neutral third-person pronoun system, largely during the time that the singular "they" was still considered to be unacceptable. I could see the use of a pronoun for use when a person's gender is unknown or unknowable, and perhaps another pronoun for those who don't want to be identified as either gender, but this Xe/Ze/Chairself bullshit is just missing the point - again, probably intentionally, because having a pronoun that applies to no one but you means you're that much more special.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:52
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:The whole thing is just really fuckin' confusing. Sometimes I wonder how many of the people who have these rare identities, like trans-gay or trans-ethnic, really feel that way. Most people assume they're just childish and 99% of the time that's probably the correct assessment, but there's got to be a few. I wonder if any psychologist has ever done a study. The brain is weird, for a lot of people with mental/behavioral health disorders there's very little practical difference between actually believing something and wanting to believe it.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:55
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moerketid posted:Not that I need to but just gonna call bs. I am a feminist, but I was the only child of parents where my mother was deeply abusive of my father and I. We experienced a ton of legit and serious men's rights/fatherhood issues when social work and the law wanted to put me into my mother's custody despite her being an alcoholic drug addict, rather than my dad's when he was employed and working to keep us safe. I have a lot of sympathy for these genuine issues and have brought them up when discussing feminism/MRAs online - the response has ONLY been sympathetic towards the situation. I've also called, as an adult, a domestic abuse charity for advice and though they expressed some surprise at how "you usually always hear about this the other way around", again they were nothing but helpful - despite being primarily geared towards women. I've never encountered anyone anywhere who claims that domestic abuse towards men cannot exist - online or irl. But people will often say that the abuse women face must be priortized and that sadly we can not also help the men because no society has infinite resources. Which i imagine is a hard to to hear. I guess it is only human to be so caugth up in your own pain that all other issues seem like they at most deserve lip service. The weird thing is perhaps they are rigth? Perhaps the way to get the maximum good for the minimum cost is to cut abused men off from any help and direct 100% of it to abused women?
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Nov 19, 2014 23:46
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Baudolino posted:But people will often say that the abuse women face must be priortized and that sadly we can not also help the men because no society has infinite resources. Which i imagine is a hard to to hear. I guess it is only human to be so caugth up in your own pain that all other issues seem like they at most deserve lip service. The weird thing is perhaps they are rigth? Perhaps the way to get the maximum good for the minimum cost is to cut abused men off from any help and direct 100% of it to abused women? Who are these people often saying this?
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Nov 19, 2014 23:52
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I like to the the Oppression Olympics are the logical extreme result of the idea that some skier has his arm broken, and gets chicks at a ski lodge because of that. "Hey, this guy gets attention and sympathy because a bad thing happened to him. I want lots of bad things to happen to me too!"
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Nov 19, 2014 23:57
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Fitting with the more recent discussion, a friend of mine posted an opinion piece from The Guardian yesterday with some pretty reasonable points about Nerd In a Dumb Shirtgate, and reasonable discussion ensued. Then today one of his friends chimed in with:quote:Whats wrong with a clothing label called "porn star" like seriously, whats the problem, its a name, its not hurting anybody, it just eists, and if you enjoy, partake, if not, get lost... does it really matter///
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Nov 19, 2014 23:59
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There are so many people who are so much more dangerous than the SJW idiocy squad that I've never really seen the point in getting worried or concerned about them. I mean, if they're appropriating my issues to make themselves feel good, yeah, that'll piss me off a bit, but they're pretty much a demographic defined by their powerlessness and laziness. They're absurdly inconsequential.
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Nov 20, 2014 00:08
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Small Frozen Thing posted:There are so many people who are so much more dangerous than the SJW idiocy squad that I've never really seen the point in getting worried or concerned about them. I mean, if they're appropriating my issues to make themselves feel good, yeah, that'll piss me off a bit, but they're pretty much a demographic defined by their powerlessness and laziness. They're absurdly inconsequential. SJW's/Slacktivists are amusing to poke fun at and laugh at how absurd they're being but I don't get how people take any of them seriously as a threat.
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Nov 20, 2014 00:11
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Tracula posted:SJW's/Slacktivists are amusing to poke fun at and laugh at how absurd they're being but I don't get how people take any of them seriously as a threat. They can be dangerous if only because they will often ally with existing dangerous groups if they get called on their bullshit. There's been a growing number of tumblrite SJWs that have started allying themselves with actual hate groups because real minorities are still getting more attention than trans-Japanese turtlekin. There's a fairly large overlap in the fake trans groups with TERFs, for example, and the word "truscum" is often a signifier that one of them has allied with Brennan and her ilk because someone told them to stop appropriating trans*.
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Nov 20, 2014 00:17
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Baudolino posted:But people will often say that the abuse women face must be priortized and that sadly we can not also help the men because no society has infinite resources. Which i imagine is a hard to to hear. I guess it is only human to be so caugth up in your own pain that all other issues seem like they at most deserve lip service. The weird thing is perhaps they are rigth? Perhaps the way to get the maximum good for the minimum cost is to cut abused men off from any help and direct 100% of it to abused women? Assuming you live in a first world country im pretty sure you have the resources to help both
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Nov 20, 2014 00:18
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:They can be dangerous if only because they will often ally with existing dangerous groups if they get called on their bullshit. There's been a growing number of tumblrite SJWs that have started allying themselves with actual hate groups because real minorities are still getting more attention than trans-Japanese turtlekin. There's a fairly large overlap in the fake trans groups with TERFs, for example, and the word "truscum" is often a signifier that one of them has allied with Brennan and her ilk because someone told them to stop appropriating trans*. That's still the fringe of the fringe of the fringe, and still pretty much completely powerless. They aren't a threat.
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Nov 20, 2014 00:22
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:They can be dangerous if only because they will often ally with existing dangerous groups if they get called on their bullshit. There's been a growing number of tumblrite SJWs that have started allying themselves with actual hate groups because real minorities are still getting more attention than trans-Japanese turtlekin. There's a fairly large overlap in the fake trans groups with TERFs, for example, and the word "truscum" is often a signifier that one of them has allied with Brennan and her ilk because someone told them to stop appropriating trans*. The word "truscum" used as an insult implies (possibly unknowing) affiliation with TERFs, mind you. Its use in this manner has caused *sigh* some actual trans advocates to start identifying as truscum openly as their political position.  Mind you, I don't mind this as a political position, it's just such dumb terminology.
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Nov 20, 2014 01:07
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LaughMyselfTo posted:The word "truscum" used as an insult implies (possibly unknowing) affiliation with TERFs, mind you. Its use in this manner has caused *sigh* some actual trans advocates to start identifying as truscum openly as their political position. This statement is incomprehensible.
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Nov 20, 2014 01:17
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karl fungus posted:This statement is incomprehensible. You have cracked the code.
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Nov 20, 2014 01:25
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I opened Julie Bindel's twitter, and the first thing I see? Milo yiannopolous complimenting her in a retweet. Also I discovered she is the author of this fine sentence quote:In January 2009 she wrote about the radical lesbian feminism of the 1970s and 1980s, and her desire to return to those values. She concluded with an invitation to heterosexual women to adopt lesbianism, saying "Come on sisters, you know it makes sense. Stop pretending you think lesbianism is an exclusive members' club, and join the ranks. I promise that you will not regret it."
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Nov 20, 2014 02:03
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Okay, what the gently caress. Someone just posted a link to the Luca Magnotta murder video. I'm not watching, but seriously. why would anyone think it's okay to post that? 
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Nov 20, 2014 02:08
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On Facebook? I hope you either called them out or at least blocked them/reported the video.
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Nov 20, 2014 02:28
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Small Frozen Thing posted:That's still the fringe of the fringe of the fringe, and still pretty much completely powerless. Well, they might be a threat to vulnerable young people who get caught up in their bullshit, but other than that yeah, they're completely powerless. I just enjoy making fun of, well, idiots on social media. Even if those idiots are emotionally unstable teenagers*. Fake edit: By which I mean any teenagers.
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Nov 20, 2014 02:39
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Toriori posted:On Facebook? I hope you either called them out or at least blocked them/reported the video. I reported it. It's hard to start things with this person because they're terminally ill, has young kids, and not handling it well.
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Nov 20, 2014 03:24
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Nov 20, 2014 03:34
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Good news! The KKK is rallying there now to help keep the peace.
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Nov 20, 2014 03:59
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