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Himuro posted:There is a God.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:17
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Dragonatrix posted:7 has a ton of enemy reskins; most things are recolours of other things. Anything that actually has a unique model is a boss (...except, y'know, the JENOVAs being recolours of one another very, very blatantly, or the Red Dragon being a dragon but red or something else I'm probably forgetting) or a very limited albeit memorable random enemy like Hell House. VII was the one I wasn't sure about, since I've only beaten it twice and it's the one I care for the least of the three mainline ones.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:30
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Edit:derp
Pureauthor fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 19:30
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morallyobjected posted:Isn't that pretty much all the PSX FFs, though? I don't remember a whole bunch of straight-up reskins in any of them, though it has admittedly been a while. It was only really noticeable for me starting from X and onwards. It was especially lazy with X; not only did they use palette swapped enemies, but they also had the same formation/groups throughout the game. 
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Nov 19, 2014 19:51
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Krad posted:It was only really noticeable for me starting from X and onwards. I think with X, it was at least partially them trying to drive home their whole THIS THING IS LIKE THAT ARMOURED ENEMY FROM THE TUTORIAL. USE AURON kind of thing. granted, they could have just let you try and figure things out on your own with a bunch of different enemy models, but 
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Nov 19, 2014 20:15
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Facepalm Ranger posted:I remember my DS copy I got up to cloud of darkness but because of all the bosses you have to fight in a row, then the final boss itself with no save points, its loving exhausting. Has anyone finished III For DS? I just recently beat III for the 2nd time ever. It's one of the hardest games in the series so that doesn't win it many fans but I think the sheer lunacy of having to complete the last 2 dungeons and gauntlet of boss fights without saving is actually a lot of fun. I enjoy challenging games, especially of the old school variety, and III can be very satisfying (if you know what you're doing) in that regard. And yes I'm referring to the DS version, which is the only version I've ever played.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:41
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Krad posted:It was only really noticeable for me starting from X and onwards. It's blatant in FFX because they even reward you for catching all of a palette swap by giving you a super strong pallete swap to fight
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Nov 19, 2014 23:39
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Facepalm Ranger posted:Ah...I thought as much when I saw the 3D models, I remember my DS copy I got up to cloud of darkness but because of all the bosses you have to fight in a row, then the final boss itself with no save points, its loving exhausting. Has anyone finished III For DS? Yes, it was the first FF I beat on an actual console without being able to save anywhere. I actually left the dungeon when I knew I was before her so I could save my game, thankfully I beat her in one go, but the extra trip up the tower helped. I liked it a lot, it was flawed, but I liked the vast number of classes available, and it wasn't too long. I also played it in highschool so.
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Nov 19, 2014 23:52
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Kyrosiris posted:Yes. Are you the FF14 goon who convinced me to give FF3 for Famicom a shot after I mentioned how poo poo it was on DS? It was definitely better than the DS version, if only because I could use save states and fast forward, but even abusing the poo poo out of those features it was still one of the most frustrating games I've ever played. It actually would have been a really solid game if they'd broken apart Eureka, the Crystal Tower, and the Dark World. Or even just put a save spot (and added tents) in the Dark World.. I can't believe the DS version stayed so true to the original. It was interesting to see the beginning of almost every staple of the series though. I always assumed things like summons, chocobos, moogles, and all the other little FF touches had kind of built up slowly between FF1 and 6 but instead found they all started with 3. Now I've just gotta finish 5, 8, 10, 12, and 13 to have finished the entire main series.
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Nov 20, 2014 01:30
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Adam Bowen posted:Are you the FF14 goon who convinced me to give FF3 for Famicom a shot after I mentioned how poo poo it was on DS? It was definitely better than the DS version, if only because I could use save states and fast forward, but even abusing the poo poo out of those features it was still one of the most frustrating games I've ever played. It actually would have been a really solid game if they'd broken apart Eureka, the Crystal Tower, and the Dark World. Or even just put a save spot (and added tents) in the Dark World.. I can't believe the DS version stayed so true to the original. More than likely. Was I freaking out about how "OMG THE TRASH IS LITERALLY THE SAME AS THE ENCOUNTER TABLES?" Because yeah, probably me, heh.
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Nov 20, 2014 01:37
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Almost every single Final Fantasy game is easy as poo poo so you guys just must not be used to playing something challenging like III for DS. 
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Nov 20, 2014 01:43
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Adam Bowen posted:Are you the FF14 goon who convinced me to give FF3 for Famicom a shot after I mentioned how poo poo it was on DS? It was definitely better than the DS version, if only because I could use save states and fast forward, but even abusing the poo poo out of those features it was still one of the most frustrating games I've ever played. It actually would have been a really solid game if they'd broken apart Eureka, the Crystal Tower, and the Dark World. Or even just put a save spot (and added tents) in the Dark World.. I can't believe the DS version stayed so true to the original. There are Chocobos and Moogles in FF2. 
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Nov 20, 2014 01:52
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Looper posted:You didn't play FF9 Listen. The game came out a while ago.
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Nov 20, 2014 01:55
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Evil Fluffy posted:There are Chocobos and Moogles in FF2. Where are the Moogles in FFII?
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Nov 20, 2014 01:58
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Deuce posted:Listen. The game came out a while ago. And it's still great. Perfect, certainly not - battle load times, the trance system, and the heavily-RNG card game come to mind - but it's overall a very solid package. It's definitely high on my list of least worst games in the series.
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Nov 20, 2014 03:19
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Deuce posted:I should totally play FF9 again. Awesome, have fun 
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Nov 20, 2014 03:36
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Ninjasaurus posted:Where are the Moogles in FFII? There are no Moogles in FFII. Fluffy must be thinking of the beavers.
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Nov 20, 2014 04:38
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Yeah I'm thinking of the Beavers you find in the one cave out in the ocean. There are chocobos though. I think their forest is just south of Gordon's castle? The beavers are moogle precursors though. Their sprites* look like brown(ish), wingless moogles.  * remakes and iOS version make them look a bit more distinct I imagine.
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Nov 20, 2014 04:52
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Adam Bowen posted:Are you the FF14 goon who convinced me to give FF3 for Famicom a shot after I mentioned how poo poo it was on DS? It was definitely better than the DS version, if only because I could use save states and fast forward, but even abusing the poo poo out of those features it was still one of the most frustrating games I've ever played. It actually would have been a really solid game if they'd broken apart Eureka, the Crystal Tower, and the Dark World. Or even just put a save spot (and added tents) in the Dark World.. I can't believe the DS version stayed so true to the original. The original FF3 is not a great game, but it's interesting in that the remake of it is actually worse.
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Nov 20, 2014 05:03
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I always found it (the original) to be pretty decent and manageable until the final couple of dungeons which just kick you in the balls relentlessly.
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Nov 20, 2014 05:09
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I'm playing FF3 DS right now and I just got to Amur. It seems fine so far. Apparently it gets bad later though?
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Nov 20, 2014 05:22
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Proposition Joe posted:I'm playing FF3 DS right now and I just got to Amur. It seems fine so far. I didn't hate it until the absolute last dungeon. I also had never played FFV so that was my intro to the job system, so I had no point of comparison.
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Nov 20, 2014 05:41
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The last 2 dungeons and gauntlet of boss battles (outside of the very last battle) are not insanely difficult, it's just that you can't save in either of them. Honestly, they're being hyperbolic as goons are wont to do. (Yes, I have taken up the mantle of being the sole defender of Final Fantasy III DS.) Ninjasaurus fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 06:10
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Ninjasaurus posted:The last 2 dungeons and gauntlet boss battles (outside of the very last battle) are not insanely difficult, it's just that you can't save in either of them. Not so much difficult in the sense of hard to do but difficult because its tedious as poo poo, especially when the game decides in one random encounter you should have a game over for no discernible reason. It's like playing Russian Roulette every time you get into a random encounter in that game. Never know which one will make you bite the bullet.
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Nov 20, 2014 06:13
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How Rude posted:Not so much difficult in the sense of hard to do but difficult because its tedious as poo poo, especially when the game decides in one random encounter you should have a game over for no discernible reason. Are you talking about the last dungeon or the entire game? Because I don't think I've ever had a random encounter that just wiped out my entire party outside of something super rare like a Red Dragon on one of the highest floors of the Crystal Tower. There aren't any enemies in the World of Darkness that should be able to kill your party by the time you finally reach it except the final boss. I didn't even do any abnormal amount of level grinding throughout the game, either.
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Nov 20, 2014 06:17
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Evil Fluffy posted:Yeah I'm thinking of the Beavers you find in the one cave out in the ocean. There are chocobos though. I think their forest is just south of Gordon's castle? Funny enough, Moogles were originally designed for II, but weren't used.  The sprites for the Beavers though, are the repurposed proto-Moogle sprites. Kinda weird loop, eh?
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Nov 20, 2014 14:43
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Ninjasaurus posted:Are you talking about the last dungeon or the entire game? Because I don't think I've ever had a random encounter that just wiped out my entire party outside of something super rare like a Red Dragon on one of the highest floors of the Crystal Tower. There aren't any enemies in the World of Darkness that should be able to kill your party by the time you finally reach it except the final boss. No, people are talking about things like the boss in the city where your airship gets shot down - if the RNG for Agility decides that it wants you dead, the boss can just use Thunder twice before you get a chance to act which is probably a TPK, especially if you're using four Dragoons like the game heavily hints that you should.
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Nov 20, 2014 14:46
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Kyrosiris posted:No, people are talking about things like the boss in the city where your airship gets shot down - if the RNG for Agility decides that it wants you dead, the boss can just use Thunder twice before you get a chance to act which is probably a TPK, especially if you're using four Dragoons like the game heavily hints that you should. Yeah Garuda is a notoriously tough boss. The first time I played the game I died a few times against him but in my second playthrough I didn't die once. Guess that makes me lucky but this sort of thing can happen in a Final Fantasy game and it's not unique to III. Final Fantasy is an incredibly easy series, almost like Baby's First JRPG, with few exceptions. That's one of the reasons why I like III so much (and for example, the DS version of IV, which actually poses a challenge, unlike the other "you'd have to be an idiot to get stuck in this except maybe at Zeromus goddamn Big Bang attack" versions). Square/Enix wants you to play through these games so you can experience the story they've crafted and if players find the games too hard, they're not likely to see them through to the end. For example, would VII have become a global sensation if it was actually challenging? I would argue no. Which is fine, if you have a lot of patience for tons of (in my opinion) bad, circular dialogue and masturbatory FMVs. This is mostly an issue in VII on up, where the games changed into a ball-numbingly long slog packed with filler but occasionally featuring some cool moments and bosses scattered throughout. Even the better installments are poorly plotted. So when I return to a Final Fantasy game, I focus on the gameplay and difficulty level. This is why I'm entertained by the DS remakes of III and IV. V Advance is not as difficult but the battle system is terrific and the plot is at least comprehensible. Best of all, it doesn't take forever to finish the game, like it does VII onward. FFI is the easiest and simplest of them all so the only real replay value it has is that you can finish it in about two days. II has a horrific battle system and isn't even enjoyable to play after you've rewired your brain to get used to that type of gameplay. Which is a drat shame because there's a good game in there somewhere. VI is the exception to all my bitching. Yes, it's extraordinarily easy and the gameplay is nothing special. But the clear, economical way in which the story is told, along with memorable characters, great art direction and one of the best soundtracks ever composed win me over time and again. Ninjasaurus fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 16:44
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Ninjasaurus posted:I usually find the idea that even if I did everything right, a game could still choose to kick my rear end, fun (provided it doesn't happen more than say 5 times in a row). As opposed to "well I have the right level, equipment, spells and strategy going into this fight so I know with 100% certainty I'm going to win, let's get this over with". Personally I don't find that fun. Now if the game could choose to make things more difficult or make me adapt somehow (but all of it still being manageable and recoverable), then sure. If it's just "welp, RNG doesn't like you, you lose unrecoverably" then no, that's not fun to me. It's definitely not fun if you have to deal with a tedious dungeon slog leading up to the question of whether or not RNG likes you. If I want more risk or a more interesting fight, I simply don't do all the super-optimized preparations. Go in at a lower level, less ideal jobs/equipment, etc. I find FJF runs of FF5 to be fun in this regard because it makes you adapt your strategy to suit a more limited toolkit. But I should always have the option of a reliable method which eliminates RNG "you lose now" from the equation. If that method requires some reasonable (not hideously grindy) prep work and there's the alternative option of jumping straight in (with less prep but more risk), then that's fine too. There are more interesting ways of adding difficulty and risk to a fight than simply RNG-instagib.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:34
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Vil posted:Personally I don't find that fun. Now if the game could choose to make things more difficult or make me adapt somehow (but all of it still being manageable and recoverable), then sure. You make some good points and I retract my earlier statement you quoted. RNG instant KO is not my preferred way for a game to test my skills. I should add that there are strategies of defeating Garuda that allow you to survive a double Thunder attack. It's not impossible to recover if the numbers are against you in that fight. If it were, I'd be complaining about it too. Although I'm veering off into a different topic with this sentence, I should point out that I think III's reputation as a "gently caress off and die" game is unfair and hyperbolic. It's not perfect but for most of the complaints I've seen, it's just the person being poo poo at the game, not the other way around. Ninjasaurus fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 18:21
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I do think you've got a point there. FF3 does date back to a slightly grindier age, and I think even the remake still carries echoes of that. You tend to end up at a much more reasonable difficulty curve, level-wise, if you make a loot run (fighting everything), walk back out (fighting everything), save, and then beeline the boss (probably still fighting everything). Plus if the boss does decide to be an rear end in a top hat and murder you anyway, at least you have less to redo that way. Granted, personally I'd still prefer it if you didn't need to fight 2-3 times the random battles because of multiple trips, and if there were these fanciful things called save points which were certainly unheard of in the dark ages of 2006 when the DS remake was released. But given the restrictions of how the game actually is, a shift in playstyle and expectations could do a lot to minimize the frustrations.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:11
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That Garuda is a total fucker and I spent a long time there before I beat him, which was based purely on luck, but aside from that I have to say I like FF3. It was the PSP version I played though, not the DS, as I was previously thinking for some reason.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:29
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Mister Adequate posted:That Garuda is a total fucker and I spent a long time there before I beat him, which was based purely on luck, but aside from that I have to say I like FF3. It was the PSP version I played though, not the DS, as I was previously thinking for some reason. They're the same game, just the PSP version doesn't have mail nonsense and also has a speed up + auto battle button.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:32
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LR question: Im in Snows Palace and theres an area that spawns a Zaltys everytime I go up a ladder. Is there any reason to farm these? They drop Firewyrm scales.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:35
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Waldean posted:They're the same game, just the PSP version doesn't have mail nonsense and also has a speed up + auto battle button. That would be why I grew confused then, I expect. 
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Nov 20, 2014 19:50
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SMT games are the worst about RNG. Sometimes you get into a battle halfway through a dungeon that just instakills your party leader in the first turn. Though I always felt that a game over on party leader death is stupid.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:52
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Digital Devil Saga doesn't do that! It even revives KO'd party members after battle. Of course, Atlus decided that they were being too lenient to players with those mechanics, so they made DDS random encounters really dickish. Enemies will cast spells to cover their weaknesses, there are enemies that can revert your party to human form and make you waste turns, some single enemies like Hresvelgr get multiple press turns and love to use Power Charge + a party attack to push your poo poo in... Two steps forward, one step back 
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Nov 20, 2014 21:39
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:SMT games are the worst about RNG. Sometimes you get into a battle halfway through a dungeon that just instakills your party leader in the first turn. Though I always felt that a game over on party leader death is stupid. This used to make me so frustrated with Baldur's Gate and sequels. I like playing mages and getting randomly gibbed once in a while when all my other party members were reviveable (even Imoen who is another CoB) meant I never got past about a third of the way through them.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:56
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Gamma Nerd posted:I couldn't stand Caius at all. Total Mary Sue in pretty much every respect, hideous overcomplicated design, dumb as hell motivations, and his dialogue all sounded like something a Kingdom Hearts villain would say. He just comes off as some fanfic writer trying to combine Sephiroth and Xemnas, who are already really cringeworthy antagonists. This guy gets it.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:01
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Caius owns.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:03
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