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Madmarker posted:At this point, all we know Ghostfire can do is Burn things, ala the card Ghostfire, and buff things, ala Ghostfire Blade, so that plus ability is pretty close to what I was expecting. However, I really couldn't say anything else, I just hope that we get a 7-8 mana colorless planeswalker that is standard playable. Difficult to do, considering the high mana cost, but thats what I want out of him. Yup, they just stapled on the only 2 things we know non-artifact colorless cards do - Morph and Ghostfire.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:56
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:I want it to be real so bad. I don't give a crap if it's unplayable in every constructed format, my Timmy side loves this thing. The best Timmy cards are the ones that are playable outside of joke formats. Cards like Polukranos and Emrakul are way cooler than garbage like Khalni Hydra because they're actually as big and important as they seem in your head.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:04
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Equilibrium posted:The best Timmy cards are the ones that are playable outside of joke formats. Cards like Polukranos and Emrakul are way cooler than garbage like Khalni Hydra because they're actually as big and important as they seem in your head. Yeah I disagree, there are plenty of cards that are fun in a casual situation that aren't competitive in constructed. Unless you only play with tryhards who don't know how to have fun, but that's your problem.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:08
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:Yeah I disagree, there are plenty of cards that are fun in a casual situation that aren't competitive in constructed. Unless you only play with tryhards who don't know how to have fun, but that's your problem. Really? When did working hard to be the best at your hobby, or even studying the work of others to become better at something you enjoy, become a point of derision? We all like this game or else we wouldn't be posting in this thread. The spikier among us, myself included, are mostly concerned with winning. Some people try just as hard to make some weird combo work, or build their perfectly themed EDH deck. Its all different means to enjoy the same medium. Not that I disagree with your assessment of cards, there are plenty of Timmy cards that are lots of fun outside of competitive environments, the green praetor is one, as is something like Rock Hydra. I've built a 60 card multiplayer deck built around Whelming Wave, and its one of my favorites. Yeah this is a lot of words, but it irritates me that nerds/geeks deride people for taking enjoyment in working hard or studying hard at competitive nerdy/geeky hobbies. No one calls Lebron James a tryhard when he tries to score a touchdown on the baseball pitch. Besides, there are tons of other legitimate things to deride people in this hobby for, body odor, creepiness, negative personalities, irritability, being sore losers but effort spent to improve ones chances of winning should not be something we look down upon.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:18
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Madmarker posted:Really? When did working hard to be the best at your hobby, or even studying the work of others to become better at something you enjoy, become a point of derision? We all like this game or else we wouldn't be posting in this thread. The spikier among us, myself included, are mostly concerned with winning. Some people try just as hard to make some weird combo work, or build their perfectly themed EDH deck. Its all different means to enjoy the same medium. I had a much more sarcastic response but you said it better. You can't reason with someone who gets upset that good cards are expensive and people who have them are "trying to hard" He probably also hates netdecking. On that note, i got through to a newer player at my LGS that using a decklist from the internet isn't a horrible sin. I asked him if every budding scientist had to discover gravity like Newton, or if it was ok to read a textbook of the foundations of physics based on prior work and learn from it. I then asked him how that would be different from me knowing I like counterburn decks and building a UR Delver list from the internet. He seemed to actually get it, and I was so proud.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:25
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This is what we call "The EDH Argument" and it never goes anywhere. It's basically arguing about what the proper way to have fun is.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:26
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Entropic posted:This is what we call "The EDH Argument" and it never goes anywhere. It's basically arguing about what the proper way to have fun is. If I understand recent popular culture, it involves cocks.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:30
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There's nothing wrong with trying to win in the general sense, but if you are incapable of relaxing and enjoying the game in any context other than win at all costs, you're probably not a very fun person to be around. If you can't handle losing in EDH with nothing on the line, you may be a tryhard.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:34
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jassi007 posted:I had a much more sarcastic response but you said it better. You can't reason with someone who gets upset that good cards are expensive and people who have them are "trying to hard" He probably also hates netdecking. I brew my own decks a lot of the time, especially in standard. Sometimes they're terrible, sometimes they're actually really good. But if I see someone else with a similar list, I'd be stupid not to see what kind of ideas they had. This happened with my modern deck; about a year ago I made a RUG control list which was ok, and I ran into a video of Reid Duke playing something similar except he had 3 awesome innovations I had totally overlooked. He played mostly islands, with 1 of each other basic and shock, plus a second Steam Vents. This allowed for 3 maindeck Vedalken Shackles, which a lot of decks just can't beat, and 3 Blood Moons in the side. Those are, at least for my playstyle, much better than whatever it was I had in those slots. The real trick is to understand why these cards are in the deck and adjusting based on how you play and what you play against. If your store is mostly Storm and Burn, those Shackles and Blood Moons are worthless. If it's a lot of BGx decks, they're worth their weight in gold.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:42
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jassi007 posted:You can't reason with someone who gets upset that good cards are expensive and people who have them are "trying to hard" He probably also hates netdecking.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:44
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Standard can absolutely be a more casual format, this depends entirely on the tone of the players at your LGS. Obviously you're trying to build something that can win games regardless but I've absolutely been to FNMs where people often just like to build weird funny standard decks with what they have lying around to gently caress around with rather than try to optimize something. There are also FNMs where you bring your A-game every single week because everyone will be playing the absolute best decks for the format that money can buy and if you're playing something you cobbled together from suboptimal card pools you won't do well at all. I honestly don't think those are anywhere near as fun, but this is a matter of personal taste.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:59
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:There's nothing wrong with trying to win in the general sense, but if you are incapable of relaxing and enjoying the game in any context other than win at all costs, you're probably not a very fun person to be around. If you can't handle losing in EDH with nothing on the line, you may be a tryhard. You might not want to play EDH with people who are competitive, and that is certainly understandable, however; the fact they are uninterested in a facet of the game you enjoy does not necessarily mean they are "not fun" as people. Those same sort of people are unlikely to play EDH as, by its very nature, it is a format which disincentivizes competition. If a person is a sore loser, that is one thing, then label them as such, but it is not the fact that someone "trys hard" at something that makes them unpleasant, it is a host of other attitudes and combining the concepts of unpleasant personality and competitiveness under the same derogatory umbrella does a disservice to a large portion of the gaming community. In conversations with people with nerdy hobbies who use the term "tryhard," and you may be the special snowflake to whom this doesn't apply, it seems that the only legitimate way to be good at a game is to not put any effort into at all and somehow, miraculously, still be amazing. Your argument seems to be that you are not insulting people for working hard at a game, but insulting them for an attitude toward loss, but that is disingenuous, the very term "tryhard" is a portmanteau of try and hard meaning, implying that it is not only the attitude, but the effort that is to be seen as negative. If you don't value competitiveness in hobbies, that's fair enough, it is an unimportant thing 90% of the time, however, devaluing an entire subset of players because they do not mesh with your playstyle is ridiculous. I get into the same arguments with people who deride the casual EDH players as well. Both camps can coexist quite well, that's one of my favorite things about magic, all players sorts of players can fit under its umbrella. Deride sore losers, deride those who act creepy, deride those who continually insult gay or female players, but for Urza's sake why in Phyrexia would you insult someone for effort.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:01
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Equilibrium posted:The best Timmy cards are the ones that are playable outside of joke formats. Cards like Polukranos and Emrakul are way cooler than garbage like Khalni Hydra because they're actually as big and important as they seem in your head.  I like to point this out when people bring out the "not every card can be good" argument. It's all relative but you can have cards bring closer in relative power level instead of further. Ask 40k players and it's funny to see the mental gymnastics required to excuse some of the really poo poo options. quote:Besides, there are tons of other legitimate things to deride people in this hobby for, body odor, creepiness, negative personalities, irritability, being sore losers but effort spent to improve ones chances of winning should not be something we look down upon. P sure this is all inclusive of the try hard moniker bro. That someone tries so hard with these nerd games that they neglect proper hygiene, nutrition, or physical activity. LeBron James doesn't have any of those problems because oddly enough those qualities are required for physical, especially team, sports. Odd then that the negative qualities spring up when the more physical aspects aren't required. Endorphins and doing something socially respected helps with the sore loser poo poo, even though we still get those guys in sports sometimes. *i haven't met James so maybe he's a prick
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Nov 20, 2014 21:05
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I'm the Lebron James of Magic because when I clap my hands together, dust comes off and sprays everywhere. in my case instead of doing it to be cool though i just have a lot of dry skin
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Nov 20, 2014 21:09
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Chill la Chill posted:P sure this is all inclusive of the try hard moniker bro. That someone tries so hard with these nerd games that they neglect proper hygiene, nutrition, or physical activity. LeBron James doesn't have any of those problems because oddly enough those qualities are required for physical, especially team, sports. Odd then that the negative qualities spring up when the more physical aspects aren't required. Endorphins and doing something socially respected helps with the sore loser poo poo, even though we still get those guys in sports sometimes. That is exactly what I am railing against here. Its not the competitiveness that is the problem, its the other traits that are negative. The term "tryhard" conflates competitiveness with these other negative personality traits, that are not necessarily linked and makes people think of them as the same trait. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 21:10
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The takeaway seems to be "does what you are doing come at the expense of the enjoyment of other players?" Tryhard tends to refer to people who not only do everything they can to win but in the process actually make losing unenjoyable for others or who sacrifice other social aspects of the game. It's the dude at the FNM draft that won't let the brand new player take back casting a spell because they misread what the card did. It's a person who calls a judge for every little infraction at casual events. Okay yeah technically you can do that stuff and it improves your chances of winning, but it still makes you kind of an rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:12
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Madmarker posted:That is exactly what I am railing against here. Its not the competitiveness that is the problem, its the other traits that are negative. The term "tryhard" conflates competitiveness with these other negative personality traits, that are not necessarily linked and makes people think of them as the same trait. It's fair to include them when you apply the term to our nerd game. It's not precise, which is what you want, but I think it's fair. We could use the term outside of that, and I've heard some people talk about it during surfing or boxing too, but the connotation isn't negative nor includes those implications due to the activity involved. Hell, it's even positive sometimes to describe a sweet combo or flashy moves. Stereotypes come from common observations.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:21
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Reene posted:Standard can absolutely be a more casual format, this depends entirely on the tone of the players at your LGS.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:30
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
And even on the creatures, the first reference in the text uses the full name.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:38
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Nibble posted:And even on the creatures, the first reference in the text uses the full name. Good catch. I expect the real Ugun, which is just about a given, will have one ability to do damage to a creature or player. It's also rare for planeswalkers to be closely tied to set mechanics beyond synergy (Liliana of the Veil discard with flashback, for example) I think Garruk Relentless was the only one to do so by being a DFC.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:51
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The metaphor was just weak, the real tryhards of basketball are found in pickup games.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:52
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I sorta like the fake spoiler stuff, if only to think about the implications/rules of what they printed, like... How do you turn a token face down?
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Nov 20, 2014 22:31
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logis posted:I sorta like the fake spoiler stuff, if only to think about the implications/rules of what they printed, like... You can't! It just sits there, being what it already is. Same as DFCs. Ixidron already turns arbitrary creatures face-down.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:38
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logis posted:I sorta like the fake spoiler stuff, if only to think about the implications/rules of what they printed, like... Just like any other permanent? So I know we all like to rag on MODO, but reading about their plans for leagues, I have to say I'm actually sort of excited by them. http://magic.wizards.com/en/MTGO/articles/archive/magic-online-leagues-update-2014-11-19 It basically deals with one of the top reasons I don't bother playing MODO, which is that I don't have time or stamina for a 4+ hour tournament. So the league works like an extended tournament. Sign up, play a match whenever, get your prizes when you finish your last match. I don't know what I thought they would be before I had them explicitly described to me, but this sounds kinda perfect? Popularity will totally depend on the format and prize support, and playability will depend on popularity. That is, you'll need lots of people around so that matchmaking works out. Fingers crossed!
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Nov 20, 2014 22:49
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AnacondaHL posted:The metaphor was just weak, the real tryhards of basketball are found in pickup games. Right, just like the real try hard in magic are found in LGSs practicing for the next open and PTQ.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:51
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Drafting the new cube (SO FUN) has made me wonder — is Bitterblossom Modern playable? I remember it dominating Standard for a while. but it doesn't seem to crop up in any of the modern deck I'm familiar with.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:54
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How many years has it been since they said leagues were coming back? Its got to be at least 5+ right? And what a shocker they are not going to be ready till sometime next year maybe. Lancelot posted:Drafting the new cube (SO FUN) has made me wonder — is Bitterblossom Modern playable? I remember it dominating Standard for a while. but it doesn't seem to crop up in any of the modern deck I'm familiar with. Its seeing play in b/w tokens, faeries, and wierdo junk decks as well. http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1221794 Bugsy fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 22:55
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Lancelot posted:Drafting the new cube (SO FUN) has made me wonder — is Bitterblossom Modern playable? I remember it dominating Standard for a while. but it doesn't seem to crop up in any of the modern deck I'm familiar with. There's a consistent tier 2 Modern deck that just makes a billion tokens (W/B Tokens) that likes it. Modern U/B Faeries failed to materialize, however.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:57
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Lancelot posted:Drafting the new cube (SO FUN) has made me wonder — is Bitterblossom Modern playable? I remember it dominating Standard for a while. but it doesn't seem to crop up in any of the modern deck I'm familiar with. When they unbanned it recently a bunch of people tried to make faeries work, but it couldn't make tier 1. It's a super pwoerful card so it is possible there's a deck for it out there, but it hasn't got there yet.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:57
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Leagues will never be released on MODO, calling it now. Also holy gently caress thank you randy buehler for the new cube
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Nov 20, 2014 22:58
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Bugsy posted:How many years has it been since they said leagues were coming back? Its got to be at least 5+ right? Guess we'll see how it actually ends up, but 'play your matches - get your prizes - then rejoin to play it again" does not sound like the old style, four weeks of casual magic leagues offered before. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:02
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Leagues were incredibly fun back in the day. Basically pay for a sealed pool and then you can play unlimited matches with it. I'm really not shocked they haven't brought them back because it dosen't fit their plan to squeeze every dime from the players, but drat is it good value. If you get a really active league, you can play all day for only the initial investment.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:42
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LordSaturn posted:Modern U/B Faeries failed to materialize, however. U/B is the worst two colour combination in contemporary magic DISCUSS.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:18
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Ebethron posted:U/B is the worst two colour combination in contemporary magic DISCUSS. It's boring and dumb, yes. Play U/W instead. Totally better. We spin tops.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:22
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Corollary: blue is objectively the worst color
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Nov 21, 2014 00:23
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Ebethron posted:U/B is the worst two colour combination in contemporary magic DISCUSS. Considering half it's cards in a given set consist of janky mill poo poo YES.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:24
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Ebethron posted:U/B is the worst two colour combination in contemporary magic DISCUSS. Nah bro it's clearly BR or RG
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Nov 21, 2014 00:33
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TheKingofSprings posted:Considering half it's cards in a given set consist of janky mill poo poo YES. It's like that now, but back in the day UB was probably the most 'evil' of the color combinations with stuff like Recoil, Lobotomy, and Undermine. That was my impression, anyway. 
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Nov 21, 2014 01:07
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bhsman posted:It's like that now, but back in the day UB was probably the most 'evil' of the color combinations with stuff like Recoil, Lobotomy, and Undermine. That was my impression, anyway.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:26
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I honestly don't think you will see a card refer to turning a non-creature face down because it is simply too cumbersome in terms of the rules. There are literally two cards ever printed that allow you to turn creatures without morph face-down and zero that allow you to do so with a permanent without morph. You have to realize Morph itself (due to stackless-flipping and potential for cheating) was considered to be potentially too cumbersome to be reintroduced into Standard. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 01:32
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