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TheKingofSprings posted:Except then you'd be playing Modern and not the best format. Type 4?
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Nov 21, 2014 20:38
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Boxman posted:Is it confirmation bias just because my city didn't get any Opens yet (St. Louis had two last year!) or are they focusing even heavier on the east coast? Its only the first half of the season so there hopefully will be more Midwest events in the second half. Still no events closer to Chicago than Indy which with my schedule is a little too far to travel to.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:39
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TheKingofSprings posted:Except then you'd be playing Modern and not the best format. We are gonna run out of RoE packs to draft someday.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:39
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A bell tolls quietly in the distance, faint but unerring. Each toll draws imperceptibly closer. An air of finality. http://blog.mtgprice.com/2014/03/19/leaving-legacy/
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Nov 21, 2014 20:39
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You guys can echo chamber all you want about legacy being better than modern for whatever reasons you want, but my point stands. Modern is cheaper, it's seeing increased support, and its popularity is increasing at a rate unmatched by legacy. It's a better investment, both in terms of actual monetary cost and time spent learning its intricacies vs. the opportunities to play it over any period of time going forward.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:41
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Aisar posted:You guys can echo chamber all you want about legacy being better than modern for whatever reasons you want, but my point stands. Modern is cheaper, it's seeing increased support, and its popularity is increasing at a rate unmatched by legacy. It's a better investment, both in terms of actual monetary cost and time spent learning its intricacies vs. the opportunities to play it over any period of time going forward. This is definitely not true. Modern staples are reprinted all the time. Legacy cards are a MUCH better investment. Also you're being kind about modern's "intricacies" it's the least diverse Magic you can play right now.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:42
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All formats are bad, hth
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Nov 21, 2014 20:44
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Aisar posted:You guys can echo chamber all you want about legacy being better than modern for whatever reasons you want, but my point stands. Modern is cheaper, it's seeing increased support, and its popularity is increasing at a rate unmatched by legacy. It's a better investment, both in terms of actual monetary cost and time spent learning its intricacies vs. the opportunities to play it over any period of time going forward. If someone offered me $100 every time I stabbed myself in the testicles, it would be a sounder financial venture than playing Legacy. I'd still do that before I played Modern full-time.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:44
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Aisar posted:Modern is cheaper. Won't be for long.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:44
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mcmagic posted:This is definitely not true. Modern staples are reprinted all the time. Legacy cards are a MUCH better investment. Also you're being kind about modern's "intricacies" it's the least diverse Magic you can play right now. Many legacy cards will not retain value if fewer people aren't buying in to the format. True, certain cards will retain value just for being iconic collectors items, but the demand part of the supply-demand dichotomy will evaporate if fewer people are playing or looking to get in to playing legacy. Cactrot posted:Won't be for long. This may or may not be true, and its a good argument to enfranchised players to get their staples while the gettin's good. Aisar fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 20:45
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mcmagic posted:This is definitely not true. Modern staples are reprinted all the time. Legacy cards are a MUCH better investment. Also you're being kind about modern's "intricacies" it's the least diverse Magic you can play right now. "Oh, you tapped out? Deceiver Exarch Splinter Twin I win. Next time don't tap out, idiot. Also lol at modern's "intricacies" vs. legacy's. Soul Sisters beats UR Delver beats everything else beats Soul Sisters. Format solved.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:46
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I think this all comes back to a point everyone can agree on: gently caress the Reserve List
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Nov 21, 2014 20:56
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suicidesteve posted:"Oh, you tapped out? Deceiver Exarch Splinter Twin I win. Next time don't tap out, idiot. I enjoy playing modern a lot. Splinter twin, one of the decks I play, is a fun archetype, combining classic interesting tempo play with the threat of a combo as a plan B. I'm sure legacy is also interesting and enjoyable, and I don't feel the need to attempt to drag it through the mud for the benefit of my preferred format. I encourage everybody to give it a try before coming to a conclusion like this! 
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Nov 21, 2014 21:01
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suicidesteve posted:"Oh, you tapped out? Deceiver Exarch Splinter Twin I win. Next time don't tap out, idiot. There are more oppressive, oops I Win! decks to play again in Legacy than in Modern. That isn't the point though.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:03
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The worst thing about the announcement is the lack of Patrick Chapin. He should be on every commentary team, on every game. I'd watch Magic played with those sorceries-and-creatures-only decks if he commentated that, or Yu-Gi-Oh or whatever.mcmagic posted:There are more oppressive, oops I Win! decks to play again in Legacy than in Modern. That isn't the point though. In Legacy there's always the threat of Force of Will, which most people agree keeps the format "fair". Disrupting Shoal is the closest thing Modern has to it, and that's not too popular. And Mindbreak Trap isn't really the same thing, or at least it doesn't target the same plays as FoW does.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:12
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Aisar posted:I enjoy playing modern a lot. Splinter twin, one of the decks I play, is a fun archetype, combining classic interesting tempo play with the threat of a combo as a plan B. I'm sure legacy is also interesting and enjoyable, and I don't feel the need to attempt to drag it through the mud for the benefit of my preferred format. I encourage everybody to give it a try before coming to a conclusion like this! Honestly, I don't hate modern as much as I say I do. I will forever maintain that Splinter Twin is the least fun deck in all of Magic, except for probably Belcher. Right now I can't stand modern at all. I almost never get to play it in paper, so I was playing it online for a while. Since Khans, I've played 4 matches against decks that weren't UR or URx Delver, out of probably 25-30 matches, and of those, only 2 weren't splashing blue for Treasure Cruise. I'm lucky enough that my deck almost can't lose to Delver, but it's unimaginably boring. Even before Khans, the meta was basically 1/3 Twin, 1/4 Burn, some GR Tron, and the odd other deck. I've never played a BGx deck in probably close to 100 matches, and easily half of them have been UR of some sort. mcmagic posted:There are more oppressive, oops I Win! decks to play again in Legacy than in Modern. That isn't the point though. Right, but there's stuff like Force and Daze so I can actually tap out after turn 3 and not just lose. Not that the game usually makes it to turn 3 against those decks. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 21:16
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what the gently caress why would they not do a big legacy event in DC? Baltimore-DC-Nova has a sweet rear end legacy scene. You fuckerssssss I'm going to meltdown like a huge baby in this post because god damnit I was looking forward to that legacy open. I guess the IQ will be basically the same thing except maybe I have a better chance of winning because all the good players will be in the main event?
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Nov 21, 2014 21:18
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think this all comes back to a point everyone can agree on: gently caress the Reserve List suicidesteve posted:Honestly, I don't hate modern as much as I say I do. I will forever maintain that Splinter Twin is the least fun deck in all of Magic, except for probably Belcher. Right now I can't stand modern at all. I almost never get to play it in paper, so I was playing it online for a while. Since Khans, I've played 4 matches against decks that weren't UR or URx Delver, out of probably 25-30 matches, and of those, only 2 weren't splashing blue for Treasure Cruise. I'm lucky enough that my deck almost can't lose to Delver, but it's unimaginably boring. Even before Khans, the meta was basically 1/3 Twin, 1/4 Burn, some GR Tron, and the odd other deck. I've never played a BGx deck in probably close to 100 matches, and easily half of them have been UR of some sort.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:20
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suicidesteve posted:Honestly, I don't hate modern as much as I say I do. I will forever maintain that Splinter Twin is the least fun deck in all of Magic, except for probably Belcher. Right now I can't stand modern at all. I almost never get to play it in paper, so I was playing it online for a while. Since Khans, I've played 4 matches against decks that weren't UR or URx Delver, out of probably 25-30 matches, and of those, only 2 weren't splashing blue for Treasure Cruise. I'm lucky enough that my deck almost can't lose to Delver, but it's unimaginably boring. Even before Khans, the meta was basically 1/3 Twin, 1/4 Burn, some GR Tron, and the odd other deck. I've never played a BGx deck in probably close to 100 matches, and easily half of them have been UR of some sort. One of the cool and unique things about modern is that Wizards has promised to keep a close eye on it and ban or unban cards as necessary to keep the format diverse. It sounds like you're talking about the recent online meta, which has been run over by the truck that is Treasure Cruise, but you can be sure that if the meta hasn't diversified come January, Wizards will work to make it more diverse.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:21
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quote:what the gently caress why would they not do a big legacy event in DC? Baltimore-DC-Nova has a sweet rear end legacy scene. You fuckerssssss At least you get Opens. Chicago as never had an Open. In fact, there's not even a Milwaukee Open in the first half of this year which would be a reasonable distance.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:22
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Pinwiz11 posted:At least you get Opens. Chicago as never had an Open. I have never understood this. They do Opens in the convention center in DC, which has to be expensive as hell. You'd think they could at least do what they do for places like Boston or NYC. Have a SCG Open: Schaumburg or something.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:25
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AgentSythe posted:I have never understood this. They do Opens in the convention center in DC, which has to be expensive as hell. You'd think they could at least do what they do for places like Boston or NYC. Have a SCG Open: Schaumburg or something. They do this for the Opens in Seattle and it bugs the poo poo out of me, because they are actually held in Tacoma.. an 30 additional miles away. Cactrot fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 21:39
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Say what you want about Modern vs. Legacy vs. Standard in terms of fun, diversity, etc. Legacy is a fun format, probably more fun than Modern if you have the cards to play it, but it's also going to be shrinking compared to Modern continuously for the next 10 years and eventually it will die. Modern will remain viable as long as Magic survives and Wizards decides to support it. I am trading for a Legacy deck right now and I love the format but barring a repeal of the reserved list followed by a Legacy Masters set the writing is on the wall for it. They could do Legacy Masters right now and reprint Jitte, Stoneforge, Batterskull, Ancient Tomb, Force of Will, Aether Vial, Cavern of Souls, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Snapcaster Mage, Wasteland, Flusterstorm, Rishadan Port, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Lackey, Karakas, Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, Daze, Ponder, Preordain, Submerge, Punishing Fire, Grove of the Burnwillows, etc. That's all just right off the top of my head. The problem is that doing so would increase the demand for reserved list items like Duals, Cradles, City of Traitors etc. In 10 years we will have either the Reserved List or a healthy Legacy.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:41
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Say what you want about Modern vs. Legacy vs. Standard in terms of fun, diversity, etc. Legacy is a fun format, probably more fun than Modern if you have the cards to play it, but it's also going to be shrinking compared to Modern continuously for the next 10 years and eventually it will die. Modern will remain viable as long as Magic survives and Wizards decides to support it. I am trading for a Legacy deck right now and I love the format but barring a repeal of the reserved list followed by a Legacy Masters set the writing is on the wall for it. This is more or less my point, commentary on the "fun"ness of the formats, however you might attempt to objectively measure them, aside. That said, I'd add as an addendum that I doubt Wizards even wants to fix Legacy. There's a lot of dumb poo poo in the oldest sets of magic that they are probably thrilled to never have to worry about again, and the kind of enfranchised player that already plays legacy is extremely likely, begrudgingly or otherwise, to continue to invest in magic at the same rate with or without legacy, just because magic is the only game in town for the kind of gaming experience it provides. Edit: Not counting Hearthstone, of course. Or Hex. Who knows if and how that will effect things, but I imagine any game with modern game design sensibilities wouldn't eat away at many legacy refugees. Aisar fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 21:52
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Pinwiz11 posted:At least you get Opens. Chicago as never had an Open. Most people would be astonished at the amount of Wizard Poker happening in the Baltimore/DC corridor. Look at this map: http://locator.wizards.com/#brand=magic&a=search&c=39.166794194372244,-76.756955&massmarket=no Make sure you do the "Nearest 30 results" setting. There is so much Wizard Poker happening every week in a 20 mile radius it's sick.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:01
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Pinwiz11 posted:At least you get Opens. Chicago as never had an Open. SCG doesn't want to deal with the Unions at McCormick place. As for why they don't just use DESCC in Rosemont and say it's Chicago like everyone sane does, I'll never know.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:14
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It's not like abolishing the reserved list activates ancient leylines that cause several thousand volcanic islands and black lotuses to manifest from the mists of time and immediately into people's hands. It's also not like Polluted Delta and Flooded Strand dropping from $100+ to $15 has caused people to die poison deaths irl. The reserved list is outdated and binds the hands of Wizards even though they loving know how to print things. MMA's small print run did show that they can add to a card pool, which expands the player base, without causing single prices to enter into a death spiral. Like, what reasoning is there behind the reserved list anymore that isn't arbitrary or implausibly catastrophic?
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Nov 21, 2014 22:14
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Toshimo posted:There is so much Wizard Poker happening every week in a 20 mile radius it's sick. So like nerd heaven?
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Nov 21, 2014 22:15
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
No one honestly knows. Its like Fight Club. The first rule of the Reserve List is you don't talk about why you keep maintaining the Reserve List.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:24
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Like, what reasoning is there behind the reserved list anymore that isn't arbitrary or implausibly catastrophic? A bunch of angry nerds will whine and stop buying product
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Nov 21, 2014 22:29
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Most of the time I see Wizards discussing it, the factor is the promise made rather than the reason that promise was made (which is indeed outdated now.) They want customers to be sure that promises the corporation makes will be stuck to, and the Reserved List is so longstanding now that it has a certain value as an example of Wizards' commitment, independent of whatever they happened to commit to all that time ago.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:31
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Death Bot posted:A bunch of angry nerds will whine and stop buying product Do you really think the nerds that own playsets of duals are still buying product in a quantity Wizards gives a poo poo about
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Nov 21, 2014 22:31
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TheKingofSprings posted:Do you really think the nerds that own playsets of duals are still buying product in a quantity Wizards gives a poo poo about Uhhh.. I still buy cards and so does my buddy, and I have all but a few duals and he has all and a set of power 9. The thing is that printing them back in the day would have messed up alpha and beta prices. These days printing 100 million duals lands wouldn't budge the alpha beta prices. And anyone who plans on retiring from his hoard of revised duals is a loving moron anyway. I will say aside from the land base the restricted list is fine, there really is no need to reprint all the legends/-0antiquities cards and whatnot. A reprinting of the duals would pave the way for legacy to be more accessible to get into.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:35
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There's some legal term that gets brought up, I don't remember it and whatever but it basically means "If you made a promise as a company and then you break it, and it causes your customers/people monetary damages, they can sue you for it". Or something like that. So anyway I think the fear is a bunch of angry shitlords would band together and file a big lawsuit about it. Or something. I mean I feel like if MTG is ever going down in flames and things at Hasbro are dire straights, they'll totally just start printing the gently caress out of poo poo in some last ditch move to grab cash. "A Mox in every box!" or something. But, right now, they sell a shitload of cardboard that's almost free to them, so, why bother exposing themselves to damages, even if the chances are small, when they can just print other bits of almost free cardboard and sell at %35,000 markup and keep running the money printing factory risk free?
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Nov 21, 2014 22:36
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TheKingofSprings posted:Do you really think the nerds that own playsets of duals are still buying product in a quantity Wizards gives a poo poo about yes
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Nov 21, 2014 22:36
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Like, what reasoning is there behind the reserved list anymore that isn't arbitrary or implausibly catastrophic?
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Nov 21, 2014 22:40
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I've been testing U/W Heroic in Standard for the past week and am really enjoying it so far, but I'm wondering for those of you who are more experienced with it, how are you side-boarding? Like, it's easy to figure out what cards should come in for certain matchups, but the deck feels pretty synergistic to the point where I usually have no idea what should come out.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:42
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qbert posted:I've been testing U/W Heroic in Standard for the past week and am really enjoying it so far, but I'm wondering for those of you who are more experienced with it, how are you side-boarding? Like, it's easy to figure out what cards should come in for certain matchups, but the deck feels pretty synergistic to the point where I usually have no idea what should come out. The sideboarding guide in this is a good place to start. edit: Keep in mind the Lagonna-band Elders are supposed to be Lagonna-band Trailblazers in his list. Johnny Five-Jaces fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 22:43
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Since people seem to be unclear: Wizards of the Coast, as a company, wants nothing more than to abolish the Reserve List. Wizards of the Coast, also, does not have the authority to make that decision. Hasbro made the final decision on that. Hasbro, the toy company, who has had 80 years of experience dealing with the angriest of nerds concerned with the long-term value and collectibility of their G.I. Joes, My Little Ponies, and Transformers. Yes. I'm serious. This is really what happened. Hasbro told Wizards point-blank "When we, Hasbro, tell our customers that their collectible item will never be reissued and will hold value, that word is stronger than oak. Deal with it." Wizards is no happier about this than you are. But this isn't about you, or SCG, or class-action suits, or anything else. This is about a toy company that has built a reputation around collectibles. And they made a decision to protect that reputation at the cost of other things. So, deal with it. Unless Hasbro sells Wizards, the Reserve List may as well be as inevitable as Death and Taxes.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:56
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But Death and Taxes got worse with the printing of True-name Nemesis.... makes u think.....
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Nov 21, 2014 23:03
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