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Mortimer posted:How long until legacy dies, anyone have an estimate? If WOTC doesn't do anything with the reserved list, probably a few years until the playerbase stagnates because the price to buy in gets too high.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:12
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Elyv posted:IIRC Liquid Fire was their attempt to make a trample burn spell and, well, check out that Oracle Text(although I don't understand why it has to use that templating). quote:As an additional cost to cast Liquid Fire, choose a number between 0 and 5. What the gently caress?
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Nov 24, 2014 23:12
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Oracle text posted:As an additional cost to cast Liquid Fire, choose a number between 0 and 5. I struggled to figure out why it's worded this way. It's to preserve the targeting requirement. You must target a creature, you don't/can't target a player. Sick anti-Leyline tech.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:14
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Elyv posted:IIRC Liquid Fire was their attempt to make a trample burn spell and, well, check out that Oracle Text(although I don't understand why it has to use that templating). The reason it's like that is otherwise you would have to deal at least 1 damage to both the creature and the player. The stupid oracle text lets you choose zero.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:15
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cheetah7071 posted:The reason it's like that is otherwise you would have to deal at least 1 damage to both the creature and the player. The stupid oracle text lets you choose zero. Nope. "Any number of target creatures and/or players" would let you do all the damage to one or the other just fine.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:16
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Booklegger posted:Nope. "Any number of target creatures and/or players" would let you do all the damage to one or the other just fine. For some reason apparently not. You can't e.g. target one of your heroic creatures and two of your opponent's creatures with Arc Lightning and deal the damage only to your opponent's creatures.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:19
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Booklegger posted:Nope. "Any number of target creatures and/or players" would let you do all the damage to one or the other just fine. Nope. You have to do something to the creatures targeted with "any number of targets" spells, including spells that distribute counters and deal damage.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:20
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Entropic posted:For some reason apparently not. You can't e.g. target all your heroic creatures and two of your opponent's creatures with Arc Lightning and deal the damage only to your opponent's creatures. That's because you have to divide among all your targets. If you don't deal damage to it, you don't target it. That's what the bad oracle wording preserves. It ALWAYS targets the creature, even if it deals 0 damage.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:21
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Place a 5/1 creature with trample and haste on to the battlefield. This does not cause 'enter the battlefield' effects to trigger. Any static effects that would affect this creature do not. There is an additional combat round during the resolution of this spell, during which neither player may cast spells or otherwise receive priority. During this additional combat round, the creature placed on the battlefield as a result of this spell attacks target opponent. This effect cannot be prevented. No other creatures may attack during this combat round. This creature must be blocked by up to one target creature controlled by the defending player. This effect cannot be prevented. No other creatures may block during this combat round. Prevent all damage dealt by creatures this combat round. If damage prevented this way was dealt by the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell, ~ deals that much damage to the creature or player damage was dealt to. This damage does not count as combat damage. Exile the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell at the end of the additional combat round. If the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell would die or otherwise leave the battlefield, exile it instead. This effect does not cause 'leaves the battlefield' effects to trigger.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:26
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It's real loving easy guys you just print Trample Bolt 1R Trample Trample Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature And then you write a new rule about trample on spells, or you make up a new different keyword that makes more sense and then you can hide all the stupid garbage that doesn't belong on a card in the comp rules
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Nov 24, 2014 23:27
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Sotar posted:If WOTC doesn't do anything with the reserved list, probably a few years until the playerbase stagnates because the price to buy in gets too high. nah it'll take way longer than that. considering the turnout at the NJ GP, legacy is still a pretty big loving deal, and considering that Vintage of all things is still limping on despite a truly exorbitant cost (as well as the physical lack of cards needed for the format) its got at least another decade in it.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:39
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A big flaming stink posted:nah it'll take way longer than that. considering the turnout at the NJ GP, legacy is still a pretty big loving deal, and considering that Vintage of all things is still limping on despite a truly exorbitant cost (as well as the physical lack of cards needed for the format) its got at least another decade in it. 3rd biggest tournament ever. "This format's dead in 2 months tops you guys."
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Nov 24, 2014 23:41
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A big flaming stink posted:nah it'll take way longer than that. considering the turnout at the NJ GP, legacy is still a pretty big loving deal, and considering that Vintage of all things is still limping on despite a truly exorbitant cost (as well as the physical lack of cards needed for the format) its got at least another decade in it. Actually GPNJ was a huge disappointment and SCG had to refund thousands of dollars to other vendors for not meeting their 'minimum entrants' guarantees.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:42
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Actually GPNJ was a huge disappointment and SCG had to refund thousands of dollars to other vendors for not meeting their 'minimum entrants' guarantees. Source? Considering how huge it was, SCG was being unreasonably optimistic if they expected more than the number that did show.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:45
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tgijsola posted:Place a 5/1 creature with trample and haste on to the battlefield. This does not cause 'enter the battlefield' effects to trigger. Any static effects that would affect this creature do not. There is an additional combat round during the resolution of this spell, during which neither player may cast spells or otherwise receive priority. During this additional combat round, the creature placed on the battlefield as a result of this spell attacks target opponent. This effect cannot be prevented. No other creatures may attack during this combat round. This creature must be blocked by up to one target creature controlled by the defending player. This effect cannot be prevented. No other creatures may block during this combat round. Prevent all damage dealt by creatures this combat round. If damage prevented this way was dealt by the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell, ~ deals that much damage to the creature or player damage was dealt to. This damage does not count as combat damage. Exile the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell at the end of the additional combat round. If the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell would die or otherwise leave the battlefield, exile it instead. This effect does not cause 'leaves the battlefield' effects to trigger. Sweet, the first sorcery to cost XWUBRG
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Nov 24, 2014 23:46
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tgijsola posted:Place a 5/1 creature with trample and haste on to the battlefield. This does not cause 'enter the battlefield' effects to trigger. Any static effects that would affect this creature do not. There is an additional combat round during the resolution of this spell, during which neither player may cast spells or otherwise receive priority. During this additional combat round, the creature placed on the battlefield as a result of this spell attacks target opponent. This effect cannot be prevented. No other creatures may attack during this combat round. This creature must be blocked by up to one target creature controlled by the defending player. This effect cannot be prevented. No other creatures may block during this combat round. Prevent all damage dealt by creatures this combat round. If damage prevented this way was dealt by the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell, ~ deals that much damage to the creature or player damage was dealt to. This damage does not count as combat damage. Exile the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell at the end of the additional combat round. If the creature placed on to the battlefield as a result of this spell would die or otherwise leave the battlefield, exile it instead. This effect does not cause 'leaves the battlefield' effects to trigger. If you told me this was the actual printed text on some card from Legends or something, I'd believe you without question.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:49
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Chamale posted:Source? Considering how huge it was, SCG was being unreasonably optimistic if they expected more than the number that did show. Just my buddy who part times for a side vendor. I'd be astounded if those kind of deals where made public. I mean, we don't even see an organizer explain the p&l's for a whole event as justification for why they're increasing entrance fees, or what proportion of prize payout is provided by wotc or anything.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:49
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I don't know how anyone can realistically expect a venue to even hold more than 4000 people but I mean I guess technically there was more than enough room for 4000 people to play.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:51
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:If you told me this was the actual printed text on some card from Legends or something, I'd believe you without question. Nah, that'd be the current oracle text, the printed text would be something like "this sorcery fights target creature as though it were a 5/5 creature with trample and first strike"
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Nov 24, 2014 23:52
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So at this point the solution is to have the card text be "Targer creature enters the thunderdome, and inside, is a lightning bolt out for blood (This means it has trample)"
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Nov 25, 2014 00:23
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Entropic posted:Nah, that'd be the current oracle text, the printed text would be something like "this sorcery fights target creature as though it were a 5/5 creature with trample and first strike" Fight doesn't interact with Trample. If they made it so it did it'd probably be a way better mechanic.
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Nov 25, 2014 00:35
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Elyv posted:IIRC Liquid Fire was their attempt to make a trample burn spell and, well, check out that Oracle Text(although I don't understand why it has to use that templating). what's wrong with the card as written? that may be some of the clunkiest oracle text I've ever seen edit: oops, didn't see the new page. that makes sense!
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Nov 25, 2014 00:36
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theironjef posted:Fight doesn't interact with Trample. If they made it so it did it'd probably be a way better mechanic. I had someone give his Unyielding Krumar first strike in response to my Savage Punch at the pre-release. It's not that embarrassing of a mistake to make though. I can see the logic in it. I didn't play around Kill Shot and lost to him in game 3 of the finals, so who am I to talk?
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Nov 25, 2014 01:03
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theironjef posted:Fight doesn't interact with Trample. If they made it so it did it'd probably be a way better mechanic. If we're talking early Magic style card design, fight does whatever the hell you want it to and may or may not even actually be a keyword.
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Nov 25, 2014 02:23
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During controller's upkeep, new heads may be grown for RRR apiece.
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Nov 25, 2014 02:41
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Actually GPNJ was a huge disappointment and SCG had to refund thousands of dollars to other vendors for not meeting their 'minimum entrants' guarantees. My initial reaction to this is "SCG is loving retarded".
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Nov 25, 2014 02:42
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MiddleEastBeast posted:My initial reaction to this is "SCG is loving retarded". Your initial reaction should be "This sounds like My Uncle Works for Nintendo".
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Nov 25, 2014 02:56
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:I mean, we don't even see an organizer explain the p&l's for a whole event as justification for why they're increasing entrance fees, or what proportion of prize payout is provided by wotc or anything. Wizards provides 100% of the prizes for the main event. That's why it's always the same.
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Nov 25, 2014 03:03
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Toshimo posted:Your initial reaction should be "This sounds like My Uncle Works for Nintendo". I believe anything a goon tells me that his friend who works part time for someone told him about someone else.
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Nov 25, 2014 03:47
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I believe anything a goon tells me that his friend who works part time for someone told him about someone else. As you should  My record on leaks has been two for three!
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Nov 25, 2014 04:02
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For what it's worth, I heard from other non-goon sources that SCG did provide an attendance guarantee to the vendors, and that it wasn't met.
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Nov 25, 2014 04:33
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It was ~500 people fewer than the largest GP of all time. What on earth were they expecting? Unless they were only off by like a 100 or something, but that doesn't register as a "huge disappointment".
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Nov 25, 2014 04:44
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MiddleEastBeast posted:It was ~500 people fewer than the largest GP of all time. What on earth were they expecting? Unless they were only off by like a 100 or something, but that doesn't register as a "huge disappointment". I believe they were guaranteeing it would break Vegas.
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Nov 25, 2014 04:45
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Booklegger posted:I struggled to figure out why it's worded this way. It's to preserve the targeting requirement. You must target a creature, you don't/can't target a player. Sick anti-Leyline tech. It's probably templated like this because the oracle text has to describe how to apply the rules in MODO.
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Nov 25, 2014 04:50
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Pussy Snorkel posted:I believe they were guaranteeing it would break Vegas. as hype as that brainstorm playmat is, a legacy GP beating the single biggest GP ever which had the hypest limited format ever was probably either overly optimistic or promised for optics.
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Nov 25, 2014 05:20
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MiddleEastBeast posted:It was ~500 people fewer than the largest GP of all time. What on earth were they expecting? Unless they were only off by like a 100 or something, but that doesn't register as a "huge disappointment". Technically they were only off by a hundred or so, if you include the ~300 people that dropped prior to round 1 just to collect their Brainstorm swag. But Vegas could have been 5 or 6k if it weren't for technical and room limitations. That guarantee was bogus to make.
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Nov 25, 2014 05:26
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I'm curious to see how big GP:MMA2 gets. Wasn't there some talk about preparing for 10k attendance?
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Nov 25, 2014 06:01
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Joe Losset is giving his post-Open briefing if anyone wants to hear him talk about the missed trigger incident.
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Nov 25, 2014 06:04
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If I were of a paranoid frame of mind, I would see a connection between the turnout and the Legacy/Modern/Standard split in the upcoming Star City Open schedule. Consider: Legacy as a competitive format is supported basically entirely by Star City. PTQs are always Standard or Limited (or Modern, sometimes). GP NJ was designed to be the maximally-sized Legacy tournament that the Magic community can support. Everything from location to promotion to scheduling was designed to absolutely maximize the number of people who showed. This is as big as a Legacy event can get in the current environment. The Open schedule comes out and there's as much Modern as Legacy, but the vast majority of it is Standard. Coupled with the statement that SCG is aiming for events to be big, multi-day cons rather than the traditional tournament model, this implies that, as big as GP NJ was, they want to go even bigger in the future. They believe, rightly or wrongly, that nothing they do can create a Legacy event larger than GP NJ. So they're going to run Standard, which can support larger events. Legacy's not dead or dying. It's inherently not as healthy a format as Standard or Modern, if you define health by growth potential, but it's not going anywhere. The question really is whether it will stratify into T1 decks running increasingly expensive and difficult to obtain staples (duals, Force) and T2 decks running everything else? I'd expect a big stratification if they printed a Legacy Masters style set, but as it stands a lot of people simply aren't buying into the format at all, figuring (incorrectly in my opinion) no duals = no shot.
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Nov 25, 2014 06:04
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Entropic posted:There's plenty of places that do it, but all unsanctioned AFAIK. Wizards might have some rules about it, but mostly because the bar is unlikely to have Wizards Event Reporter installed. Couple pages ago but my LGS has a bar (called Critical Sip) inside of it. They have to shut down the bar if they use the tables in that area. That generally only happens for prereleases though, and people move from their assigned seats to the bar area to have a drink during a round all the time.
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