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One of the fun things about having a black family is that when we're arguing about politics we're usually trying to show who's the angriest about something we all agree was/is/will be hosed up. The BEST thing about having a Jamaican family is that once everyone's itis has subdued we bust out the rum and have dance parties.
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Nov 28, 2014 05:36
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My Imaginary GF posted:I agree; the most efficient means to lower demand for a product is to associate that product with use by the visibly-discernable poor. Unfortunately, yes. Though nowadays it is rural poor. Cocaine is the real cash crop for cultivation so it's the best target for shaming. There's the double effect that even if we "legalize it" we still have to address the colonialist aspects of our drug production chains The reports I've heard this year of Sinaloans finally beginning local cultivation in Mexico of coca should be alarming.
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Nov 28, 2014 05:38
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minorities (other than asians obviously) have more fun than white people, this is the true oppression of the subjugated white race in obama's america
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Nov 28, 2014 05:38
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Berke Negri posted:Unfortunately, yes. Though nowadays it is rural poor. Cocaine is the real cash crop for cultivation so it's the best target for shaming. There's the double effect that even if we "legalize it" we still have to address the colonialist aspects of our drug production chains is local cultivation even possible? i thought coca was very specific to the andean climate
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Nov 28, 2014 05:39
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nutranurse posted:One of the fun things about having a black family is that when we're arguing about politics we're usually trying to show who's the angriest about something we all agree was/is/will be hosed up. I really like my family, but I may ask to trade for your family next Thanksgiving.
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Nov 28, 2014 05:40
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Badger of Basra posted:is local cultivation even possible? i thought coca was very specific to the andean climate That's kind of the crazy part of it Honestly I'm embarrassed to talk cartel chat here because there's no way to sound like conspiracy theory person but all the major cartels are billion+/yr businesses so you'd be dumb to think that developing a sophisticated coca cultivation program locally isn't part of their R&D And of course if it's true Sinaloa would get it first.
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Nov 28, 2014 05:43
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My Imaginary GF posted:I agree; the most efficient means to lower demand for a product is to associate that product with use by the visibly-discernable poor. Berke Negri posted:Honestly I'm embarrassed to talk cartel chat here because there's no way to sound like conspiracy theory person but all the major cartels are billion+/yr businesses so you'd be dumb to think that developing a sophisticated coca cultivation program locally isn't part of their R&D Soy Division fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 05:46
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Berke Negri posted:That's kind of the crazy part of it Its not conspiracy when you look at the data. Yes, some cartels have evidence-based horticultural R&D. We'd know when they invent something by changes in logistics trends. Further, I favor a policy of RJ Reynolds being given grants of land in Uganda for purposes of marijuana plantations under an American-subsidized free trade policy. People laugh at me; drugs are just another cash crop with high margins and political will for enhanced regulation.
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Nov 28, 2014 05:48
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Dr. Rockzo from Metalocalypse is some of the best anti-cocaine viral marketing I've ever seen by the way.
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Nov 28, 2014 05:50
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Gail Wynand posted:Dr. Rockzo from Metalocalypse is some of the best anti-cocaine viral marketing I've ever seen by the way. Seriously dude, a lot of cocaine. Actually I think he's clean now. 
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Nov 28, 2014 05:57
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Gail Wynand posted:Dr. Rockzo from Metalocalypse is some of the best anti-cocaine viral marketing I've ever seen by the way. really just being sober and around someone high on coke is really good argument for never doing it
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Nov 28, 2014 05:58
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Gail Wynand posted:The creation of crack cocaine is one of the greatest unsung marketing coups of the modern age. Give the same product different packaging for the poors, while the rich people get it in a different "premium" form. I don't think the science is really the barrier, it's security/politics. Local mass-coca cultivation is kind of the nuclear option for south of the border. If you can cut out the middleman and just funnel coke directly from Mexico that is a game changer. It is less can they do it, more like holy poo poo they are secure enough that no one is showing up to kill everyone involved. Never heard of Michoacan getting to that level, though the Templares could prob be considered a religious terrorist group. Then there's the whole deal that all the opiates coming from southeast Asia, but American's can easily get that from their GP.
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Nov 28, 2014 05:59
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Berke Negri posted:I don't think the science is really the barrier, it's security/politics. Local mass-coca cultivation is kind of the nuclear option for south of the border. If you can cut out the middleman and just funnel coke directly from Mexico that is a game changer. It is less can they do it, more like holy poo poo they are secure enough that no one is showing up to kill everyone involved. Never heard of Michoacan getting to that level, though the Templares could prob be considered a religious terrorist group. quote:Then there's the whole deal that all the opiates coming from southeast Asia, but American's can easily get that from their GP.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:03
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My Imaginary GF posted:Its not conspiracy when you look at the data. Yes, some cartels have evidence-based horticultural R&D. We'd know when they invent something by changes in logistics trends. My understanding is that marijuana is too drat easy to grow in America for that to be all that economically feasible (presuming legalization). It wasn't that long ago (80 years? Less?) that hemp was growing wild in American city streets because the seed was commonly part of birdseed mixes. With widespread legalization the price of Mj would plummet catastrophically.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My understanding is that marijuana is too drat easy to grow in America for that to be all that economically feasible (presuming legalization). It wasn't that long ago (80 years? Less?) that hemp was growing wild in American city streets because the seed was commonly part of birdseed mixes. With widespread legalization the price of Mj would plummet catastrophically. As I'm aware of it weed is nothing in the scheme of things. I mean, you can grow and make your own weed if you have the patience and, like, half of north California is legal weed fiefdoms. Opiates and coca are the big deals because that's the stuff that require globalised chains and infrastructure to maintain supply.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My understanding is that marijuana is too drat easy to grow in America for that to be all that economically feasible (presuming legalization). It wasn't that long ago (80 years? Less?) that hemp was growing wild in American city streets because the seed was commonly part of birdseed mixes. With widespread legalization the price of Mj would plummet catastrophically. Legalization of consumption of refined products does not necessarily mean legalization of tax evasion on production of said products. The same argument could be made for coconuts, yet here we are. Fundamentally, marijuana is just another agricultural commodity. Sure, some hobbyists will try to grow their own at home; the real money comes from the vertically-integrated production, logistics, and distribution structure. Berke Negri posted:As I'm aware of it weed is nothing in the scheme of things. I mean, you can grow and make your own weed if you have the patience and, like, half of north California is legal weed fiefdoms. Its a matter of economies of scale. You can't have an industrial coca operation under a vertically integrated structure in America without it being noticed by someone. Weed is merely a matter of time now that small-holder corn farmers have found out just how much the "street value" of weed is, versus the margins on corn. They already know the margins on weed; they pay them. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 06:14
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My Imaginary GF posted:Legalization of consumption of refined products does not necessarily mean legalization of tax evasion on production of said products. The same argument could be made for coconuts, yet here we are. Fundamentally, marijuana is just another agricultural commodity. Sure, some hobbyists will try to grow their own at home; the real money comes from the vertically-integrated production, logistics, and distribution structure. There are significant social and structural differences when the product is addictive.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My understanding is that marijuana is too drat easy to grow in America for that to be all that economically feasible (presuming legalization). It wasn't that long ago (80 years? Less?) that hemp was growing wild in American city streets because the seed was commonly part of birdseed mixes. With widespread legalization the price of Mj would plummet catastrophically. I believe someone did a study and it got linked in the drug legalization thread, that showed that weed grown with the resources at hand for a medium size tobacco company should cost like $1-$3 a pound, before taxes, if you still wanted to have a healthy profit margin for the company built in before it's packaged into something like premade cigarettes or marketing is done. The result being that even if you put on taxes of like 500% on top of the markup the company puts on, weed would still be ridiculously cheap.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:16
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Discendo Vox posted:There are significant social and structural differences when the product is addictive. Not really, no. There are significant social and structural differences when the product is addictive and seen to be used by the poor. Nintendo Kid posted:I believe someone did a study and it got linked in the drug legalization thread, that showed that weed grown with the resources at hand for a medium size tobacco company should cost like $1-$3 a pound, before taxes, if you still wanted to have a healthy profit margin for the company built in before it's packaged into something like premade cigarettes or marketing is done. Yes, the question of legalization is no longer one of 'if'; its one of when, where, and how. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 06:18
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My Imaginary GF posted:Not really, no. There are significant social and structural differences when the product is addictive and seen to be used by the poor. To be fair, Vox is the same robot that went beep boop meth and coke are both Schedule II Narcotics what's the difference??
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Nov 28, 2014 06:22
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all the football games today sucked and were boring to watch although it was funny to see the cowboys humiliated by mark sanchez now i am home from a dumb day of work so it is time for me to drunken myself as befits this fine holiday
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Nov 28, 2014 06:25
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Berke Negri posted:To be fair, Vox is the same robot that went beep boop meth and coke are both Schedule II Narcotics what's the difference?? That's...not what I said. I mentioned believing that cocaine was as addictive as methamphetamine, and to the best of my knowledge that hasn't actually been contradicted by anyone here. The sources I've looked up since say that cocaine causes higher dependence rates. My Imaginary GF posted:Not really, no. There are significant social and structural differences when the product is addictive and seen to be used by the poor. I can't tell what you're actually arguing, again. From what perspective aren't the products different? They have different societal effects if they are and aren't addictive- that's pretty obvious because the demand functions differently. Or are you running your gimmick again? I can't tell. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 06:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My understanding is that marijuana is too drat easy to grow in America for that to be all that economically feasible (presuming legalization). It wasn't that long ago (80 years? Less?) that hemp was growing wild in American city streets because the seed was commonly part of birdseed mixes. With widespread legalization the price of Mj would plummet catastrophically. eh there's a fair bit of labor in growing consumption worthy weed, particularly because of issues of female plants becoming useless hermaphrodites if male plants are not properly culled. i think this is basically what the gay agenda is
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Nov 28, 2014 06:27
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Nintendo Kid posted:I believe someone did a study and it got linked in the drug legalization thread, that showed that weed grown with the resources at hand for a medium size tobacco company should cost like $1-$3 a pound, before taxes, if you still wanted to have a healthy profit margin for the company built in before it's packaged into something like premade cigarettes or marketing is done. this is basically what happened to the older northern ca growers after medical was legalized; prices on their sole cash crop went into the toilet http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126806429
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Nov 28, 2014 06:31
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Jagchosis posted:eh there's a fair bit of labor in growing consumption worthy weed, particularly because of issues of female plants becoming useless hermaphrodites if male plants are not properly culled. i think this is basically what the gay agenda is ya wouldn't need most of that labor if you could easily cross-state finance equipment is the thing.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:31
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Discendo Vox posted:That's...not what I said. I mentioned believing that cocaine was as addictive as methamphetamine, and to the best of my knowledge that hasn't actually been contradicted by anyone here. The sources I've looked up since say that cocaine causes higher dependence rates. I'm saying it doesn't matter whether or not you use an addictive substance, it matters whether you generative more revenue than the perceived costs associated with your addictive substance of choice. comes along bort posted:this is basically what happened to the older northern ca growers after medical was legalized; prices on their sole cash crop went into the toilet That's the point when you realize you should've vertically integrated and formed a marketing board to purchase the crop from you at a decent mark-up while also forming a sufficiently capitalized lobbying arm in order to grant your marketing board a monopoly on purchase and distribution of the substance. Basically, beer distributors. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 06:32
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Jagchosis posted:eh there's a fair bit of labor in growing consumption worthy weed, particularly because of issues of female plants becoming useless hermaphrodites if male plants are not properly culled. i think this is basically what the gay agenda is that's if you don't plant feminized seeds
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Nov 28, 2014 06:33
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My Imaginary GF posted:I'm saying it doesn't matter whether or not you use an addictive substance, it matters whether you generative more revenue than the perceived costs associated with your addictive substance of choice. OK, so, gimmick, right.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:33
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My Imaginary GF posted:
Your average drogas promoter doesn't care about this because they're a white piece of poo poo but if you can't turn on your iPhone without seeing on Facebook that foxconn employees are killing themselves everyday you also should have blared at you that the line you're doing was brought to you by narco peasants getting sick and dying from chemical poisoning
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Nov 28, 2014 06:33
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comes along bort posted:this is basically what happened to the older northern ca growers after medical was legalized; prices on their sole cash crop went into the toilet yeah and that price impact they've hit so far still has many other things holding up: lack of full scale legality, lack of ability for big time companies to get involved and run leaner operations, lack of true cross-national selling markets and growing markets. current laws make it so that all the various legal weed areas have to operate independently of each other. big things will come about once carrying it across state lines stops being considered a crime or a reason to lock out a bank account
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Nov 28, 2014 06:35
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Berke Negri posted:We need to start asking questions of where do your drugs come from, how are they produced, what are the costs? "sufficiently capitalized marketing board and lobbying organization" is the answer to the drogas issue. Really, all you need is a 7-8% greater subsidization than your competition to force them out of the market Discendo Vox posted:OK, so, gimmick, right. Let me ask you this: What viable alternatives have worked?
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Nov 28, 2014 06:37
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Jagchosis posted:minorities (other than asians obviously) have more fun than white people, this is the true oppression of the subjugated white race in obama's america Of course you're not going to have as many in-depth conversations about world events and what not, so enjoy doing the chicken dance or getting drunk next to a karaoke machine or having impromptu dance parties with regional liquor, but don't expect to drop references to Obama's Asia pivot or whatever.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:39
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My Imaginary GF posted:Let me ask you this: What viable alternatives have worked? Leaving aside the "viable alternatives" double-barrelling, you're still doing that thing where you leave most of the parts of your position out of your post. What are you trying to say?
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Nov 28, 2014 06:40
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My Imaginary GF posted:"sufficiently capitalized marketing board and lobbying organization" is the answer to the drogas issue. Really, all you need is a 7-8% greater subsidization than your competition to force them out of the market I've told you this before in PMs but yes product conceptualization of imaging is easier than politics. Ill leave making drugs legal to other people, making coke uncool is a lot easier. Actually figuring out how to really fix Mexico is beyond everyone's paygrade. But figuring it out should be the priority of people in America than it is now.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:47
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ReindeerF posted:My observation after growing up in rural, poor America and then going on to school with wealthy, urban America and then living abroad and traveling all over is that until you hit utter homelessness levels of poverty, the poorer people are the more visceral fun they are and the wealthier people are the less visceral fun they are. The caveat is that there's a certain chaos to the fun of poor people that means a much higher chance of the evening ending with friends beating the poo poo out of each other with metal chairs and possibly someone shooting at someone. This holds true whether you're in rural Texas, Thailand, the Philippines, Cambodia - and lots of other places anecdotally - and doesn't vary greatly by race/ethnicity. Rural white rednecks are plenty of stupid fun, believe me, just like rural hispanic folks or rural Thai people or whatever (including many - especially Southeast - Asians!). It's just that all of these peoples are equally as likely to end up in like a vehicle that's somehow immobilized and doing something wrong that attracts law enforcement. The major variation is what happens after the cops show up, not before, heh. yeah i wasn't engaging in actual race determinism, but i have noticed that black and hispanic folk regardless of class are more fun to party with than the white folk. and yeah i'll definitely believe they have good parties in thailand, the global capital of hedonism
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Nov 28, 2014 06:53
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i don't see the large agribusiness companies or tobacco getting into weed industrial hemp, sure since there's a lot of industrial applications ReindeerF posted:The caveat is that there's a certain chaos to the fun of poor people that means a much higher chance of the evening ending with friends beating the poo poo out of each other with metal chairs and possibly someone shooting at someone. chaos is the best word for it. also poorer people tend to yell at each other a lot more Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 06:54
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also migf is really funny when he's posting ludicrously bad ideas. do that more often
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Nov 28, 2014 07:01
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nutranurse posted:One of the fun things about having a black family is that when we're arguing about politics we're usually trying to show who's the angriest about something we all agree was/is/will be hosed up. Basically what I'm saying is will your family adopt me please? I mean, I know I'm legally an adult and I might be the only white guy there but you can make fun of me behind my back and I won't mind.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:26
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comes along bort posted:also migf is really funny when he's posting ludicrously bad ideas. do that more often i just had a novel idea: the russians didn't defeat the germans; the american strategic bombing campaign forced the nazis to enact their final solution and population repression schemes, which defeated the germsns thus, as in ww1, by bringing the germans under Malthusian dynamics were they defeated. the implication of this is that acquescence to elite change in systems of patrilinialist political order can only occur from use of military force when such use is coupled with prepatory campaign which induces malthusian dynamics among the populations of a given geographic area.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:28
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InequalityGodzilla posted:My family's thanksgiving was lots of awkward silences where everyone tries to avoid talking to one another because we all hate each other, but we can't just tell each other to gently caress off because grandma's there and she's gradually growing more senile and we don't want to worry/agitate her. I drank heavily and one of my cousins stabbed me in the thigh with a fork under the table as revenge for prior transgressions. Then I got dragged along for black friday shopping because they needed someone extra to stand in line and if I said no the shouting would start. So even though they knew I had to be at work at 6am I was out there until about 30 minutes ago. And I get to do it all again at christmas. Wow, that's uh... that's pretty horrific. I've only had one awkward Thanksgiving and it involved friends instead of family, a gay friend started laying into a Mormon friend in the wake of Prop. 8 passing. At the time I thought it was mortifying, but they at least went off into another room to shout at each other, the rest of us ate awkwardly and pretended it wasn't happening. That seems almost pleasant in light of your experience.
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