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Is there a hierarchy of submissions? Like if given the option between say a choke, a compression lock, or joint lock which is the one you'd go for all things equal?
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Nov 27, 2014 04:37
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KildarX posted:Is there a hierarchy of submissions? Like if given the option between say a choke, a compression lock, or joint lock which is the one you'd go for all things equal? You go for whichever is easier to do at that time. Im always super careful with joint locks since some of them don't start start hurting until its too late.
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Nov 27, 2014 04:49
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KildarX posted:Is there a hierarchy of submissions? Like if given the option between say a choke, a compression lock, or joint lock which is the one you'd go for all things equal? It can really depend on the person. I've rolled with guys who will tap to a kimura as soon as you have it at all and other guys who in order to tap them you have to bring their arm up to their head. A proper blood choke will put out anybody but even then some people are going to be able to last longer than others and be more able to defend. The answer here is double armbar > everything else.
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Nov 27, 2014 05:45
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It's a personal choice that varies between person to person and school to school. When I'm on top I like to go for whatever submission has the lowest chance of me losing my dominant position, and when I'm on the bottom I go for whatever submission will improve my position if it fails. Some people (Garry Tonon and Ronda Rousey spring to mind) don't give a gently caress about position and are just a whirlwind of attacks.
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Nov 27, 2014 06:32
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Compression lock probably has the least priority, but the rest is whatever you're best at. Although, against a bigger opponent, I prefer to go for chokes over joint locks.
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Nov 27, 2014 08:39
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Two different kicks but oh boy this poo poo owns!
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Nov 27, 2014 15:14
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What do you mean two different kicks? I could do with some more explanation than the video provides to be honest
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Nov 27, 2014 15:22
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Rabhadh posted:What do you mean two different kicks? I could do with some more explanation than the video provides to be honest Oh sorry, the post I quoted? The other kick was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWO7N0U5YQ&t=92s and I mean the turning kick. The kicker (Rogan) has his butt more or less turned against his opponent. A chasse lateral median has you facing the opponent in a regular boxing stance, then quickly lifting your leg and pivoting as you shoot forwards with the said leg. Like. You can use the side-kick as a "jab" just with your foot. Like the MT guy. Beautiful! Or a powerkick when you step into it. Or a superpowerkickasdfasdfaQ!"#¤ when you step and turn, both like Rogan in the end of the video. That has got to hurt.
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Nov 27, 2014 15:37
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Ligur posted:Two different kicks but oh boy this poo poo owns! God I love landing side kicks so much. My big thing with them is less the loading time and more the range. You either have to take a big step in or (and this is always the best) catch them coming in.
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Nov 27, 2014 16:08
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Ligur posted:Oh sorry, the post I quoted? The other kick was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWO7N0U5YQ&t=92s and I mean the turning kick. The kicker (Rogan) has his butt more or less turned against his opponent. A chasse lateral median has you facing the opponent in a regular boxing stance, then quickly lifting your leg and pivoting as you shoot forwards with the said leg. That turn kick we drilled but I never really used it. Never got a great feel for the range. We drilled it as a response to a failed mawashi geri. If they avoid the first kick by stepping straight back just put your kicking foot down and go for the turn. The way Rogan is going into that straight from the stance I can see it being more consistent range wise.
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Nov 27, 2014 16:18
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KildarX posted:Is there a hierarchy of submissions? Like if given the option between say a choke, a compression lock, or joint lock which is the one you'd go for all things equal? I like questions like this. For a while I figured the best answer was to go for the choke, because there's more challenge and less chance of hurting a training partner who may be reluctant to tap. Eventually, I realized that it's way easier to submit someone who's trying to defend multiple points at once, so I started using arm locks to set up my chokes. Turns out this can be dangerous from the bottom though, where they can sometimes counter the arm lock transitions right into a submission of their own. Now I think of it as more of a context-dependent hierarchy. I appreciate the approach that 02-6611-0142-1 described (subs to get&hold good position), but with one exception: If you can get them to open their throat up long enough for you to work your arm all the way around it, just connect your hands and finish the choke. Even if it might seem like they're getting into the better position, hold tight and you're really likely to get the tap. A Wry Smile fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 03:21
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My contribution to the submission hierarchy chat would be to go from most conservative positionally to least. An example sequence: cross choke from mount, very low risk horray if you get it. they defend, arm bar next because to finish you're going to need to shift quite a bit leaving more spaces. finally,something like a rolling triangle if you can't get the arm and want/need to just go for it. Exceptions apply blah blah but it's usually the most effective method. White/blue tends to jump right to the end if they're past learning the very basics. at purple (me) I tend to play too conservative and miss good submissions because I'm not confident. idk someone with a darker belt can talk about brown black.
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Nov 28, 2014 19:28
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So that guy I said was a dangerous liability at our BJJ club has just hosed a brand-new guys ribs up so he's had to go to hospital. The coach has sent me a text message saying "That guy needs to cool it, it's not acceptable" - haha, yeah, we've been telling you that for ages, you have bred this into him. It'd be funny if some poor bloke who doesn't know how to defend anything didn't have smashed ribs.
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Nov 28, 2014 23:58
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What level of class was this? Fundamentals, given the victim here was new? What do you do in your fundamental class that'd allow someone's ribs to get hosed up? Genuine question. I'm doing a fundamentals class it's (fortunately) incredibly safe + restricted. I guess it could've been a mixed class...
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Nov 29, 2014 00:31
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ICHIBAHN posted:What level of class was this? Fundamentals, given the victim here was new? What do you do in your fundamental class that'd allow someone's ribs to get hosed up? Genuine question. I'm doing a fundamentals class it's (fortunately) incredibly safe + restricted. No, there's not many of us, this is a small place in the middle of nowhere in the UK, so there isn't a fundamentals class. The highest ranked of us is a purple, you roll from day one, and everyone does the same classes. I'm only a one-stripe blue belt, so this is fine for me, and I like the idea of getting in at the ground floor of something. I quite enjoy helping the flailers out, so as much as I like the challenge of rolling with the guys that have been doing it for a while, I also like deconstructing what I think I know to try to help someone. I find I'm often not doing the things I'm telling someone else to do as I explain it to them. It probably isn't ideal, but there's not much of a way to get it working financially otherwise. The coach has become a friend, and I know he makes almost nothing out of it. The stupid thing is, the coach is normally a really switched-on guy, he just seems to have had a massive blind spot when it comes to this one student (who is very very good, just dangerously selfish). Maybe it'll change now? [edit] Thinking about it, the new guys that can get into it do tend to learn quite quickly, as it's very much a case of "this is going to suck for you for a few months, then it'll get better". Weirdly, this seems to dissuade meatheads, and we have (apart from the Dude Who Fucks People Up) a really nice mix of people, different ages, weights, a couple of girls, it's good. Everyone gets along. [edit 2] Sorry, I didn't really answer your question. They were rolling, only New Guy drew the short straw and ended up with Dangerous Guy. Dangerous Guy didn't treat New Guy like he should've, and the predictable outcome occurred. I guess he maybe hopped into a knee-on-belly on the floating ribs or something? quidditch it and quit it fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 00:52
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Thanks for your answer. I'm doing a class in Glasgow, and I'm a bit jealous that you're able to roll together from the outset. I'm saying that only after going for 3 months and only recently getting a grip on things. Our 1 hour class is very compartmentalized, not lots of time on the mat rolling really but I guess that's normal for beginners. Aye, hopefully this incident sends a message to your instructor that dangerous dude is dangerous. Also hope it didn't dissuade the new guy, though it probably would dampen my enthusiasm.
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Nov 29, 2014 01:13
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I think the rolling from day one thing has been a huge benefit to me; there's a Gracie Barra school near us who aren't allowed to roll until they've got three stripes, I think, and other local teams tend to beat their white belts quite soundly at competitions. The way I see it, if I ran a school that didn't allow rolling at first, I'd probably retain more students, due to breaking them in gently. On the other hand, if they have the option of rolling ASAP, then the ones who stay will probably get really into it. It certainly worked for me; I got smashed by some guys at my club who'd started BJJ before me (we do the usual stand up stuff too) when I began grappling. So, in my head, that's a good, workable, evidence-based art, they'd been taught how to cause me pain to the point where I ask them to stop. I doubt I'll ever stop grappling, it's good stuff.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:01
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I'm curious how long it takes people at typical GB schools to get the stripes they need to start rolling, because at mine we are allowed to roll from day one and it generally takes over 6 months for a guy who trains consistently to get a couple stripes, which I've been told is what you need to start rolling at most GB gyms. I don't know if I'd stick with it if I could only drill their fixed fundamentals curriculum for 6 months before actually being allowed to play.
Keg fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 02:18
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Tbh I don't even actually know. I don't know how you attain stripes either.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:26
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I'd like GB a lot more if their classes didn't spend so much time on self-defense techniques that I personally don't think would work. It'd also be cool if they let beginners have a bit more freedom while drilling specific positions/techniques, but I imagine they work with lots of people who've never seen BJJ before and it's probably better overall to have controlled sparring until someone demonstrates they know how to avoid injuring themselves or others.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:28
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ICHIBAHN posted:Tbh I don't even actually know. I don't know how you attain stripes either. My prof gives them as he sees us improve over time, but it's not formal or standardized at all. It's an arbitrary way to say "hey you're improving, good job", but it's not really important, and there are schools that don't do it at all.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:31
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I don't know how they do it. I got my blue belt fairly quickly, but I rolled almost every day once I got into it, and I mean going down to the local park when the club was closed and grappling with some of the guys right there in the loving park on the grass. We got some funny looks from the footballers. [edit] Our stripes tend to be a "you have improved, keep at it" thing, doesn't happen very frequently at all. I guess that's the problem (benefit!) with only having five belts, some people can get a bit downbeat, especially if everyone in class is improving at the same rate as them. quidditch it and quit it fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 02:33
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Keg posted:I'm curious how long it takes people at typical GB schools to get the stripes they need to start rolling, because at mine we are allowed to roll from day one and it generally takes over 6 months for a guy who trains consistently to get a couple stripes, which I've been told is what you need to start rolling at most GB gyms. I don't know if I'd stick with it if I could only drill their fixed fundamentals curriculum for 6 months before actually being allowed to play. Normal white belt stripe progression for a GB school is one stripe per month, faster if they're taking more classes than average.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:37
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1st AD posted:I'd like GB a lot more if their classes didn't spend so much time on self-defense techniques that I personally don't think would work. Over the holidays, I'm going to be attending one of GB schools with the notorious rules about rolling and uniforms (I was told they'd let me slide since I'm travelling and to say that I forgot to pack my GB gi if asked about it during class), and it'll be interesting to see what the fixed GB fundamentals curriculum is like Keg fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 02:38
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fatherdog posted:Normal white belt stripe progression for a GB school is one stripe per month, faster if they're taking more classes than average. Really? I'm confused. They don't get a new belt after four stripes? Oh man you're messing with me. quidditch it and quit it fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 02:39
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I am a twelfth degree white belt.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:51
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de la peche posted:Really? I'm confused. They don't get a new belt after four stripes? How on earth did you get that out of my post?
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Nov 29, 2014 02:55
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fatherdog posted:How on earth did you get that out of my post? I'm probably being stupid or missing a joke? You're saying they get a stripe every month or quicker. Four months a belt? I've read the thread, I know you know what you're on about so I am definitely missing something. [edit] Right, I see, a stripe every month as a white belt. But still, four months until a blue belt? The Gracie Barra guys down here don't progress that fast, for sure. quidditch it and quit it fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 02:58
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de la peche posted:I'm probably being stupid or missing a joke? You're saying they get a stripe every month or quicker. Four months a belt? I've read the thread, I know you know what you're on about so I am definitely missing something. Four months to a four-stripe white belt, and then an indeterminate amount of time between four stripe white and blue, depending on attendance and performance.
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Nov 29, 2014 03:12
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Stripes are a relatively new invention in BJJ and don't necessarily reflect how close you are to promotion. They are just a very rough visual indicator of how long a person has held that belt - some schools don't bother with them at all. Sometimes people are promoted after 0/1/2/3 stripes and sometimes people remain 4 stripe blue belts for 5 years.
Taratang fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 11:36
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I've been going (GB) for 3 months and I've never been given a stripe, nor has anyone who's joined around the same time as me. I've been going at least 3 times a week. I doubt stripes are given out that quickly, at least in my school they aren't.
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Nov 29, 2014 12:29
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Stripes aren't rank at most BJJ schools. They are generally meant as encouragement to reward time spent or effort put in given the long time between actual belts. I've seen 4 stripe belts held there for long periods and I've seen people with less than 4 stripes get promoted to the next belt. I'm a 4 stripe brown belt and have been a brown belt for nearly 3 and a half years but am nowhere close to being promoted to black belt.
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Nov 29, 2014 19:39
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My gym has stripes as a sorta gauge of the curriculum you know by testing for it. By the time you hit fourth stripe you should know the white to blue belt curriculum. I'm not sure if that's how it works for the higher belts
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Nov 30, 2014 04:02
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How do I earn my Muay Thai black belt, Muay Thai shorts, or pra jiad? Do I have to test out or just pay x amount of money? Do a kata maybe?
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Nov 30, 2014 09:38
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I want a black belt in boxing? How are is done?
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Nov 30, 2014 14:22
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How often should I be getting stripes in my boxing classes?
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Nov 30, 2014 14:29
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How fast can I get the first belt level in boxing if I train diligently?
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Nov 30, 2014 14:55
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You have to train several months to get your Muay Thai shorts awarded by the sensei. Beginners have to train in speedos or their underwear.
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Nov 30, 2014 15:35
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Pretty funny stuff
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Nov 30, 2014 18:44
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eine dose socken posted:You have to train several months to get your Muay Thai shorts awarded by the sensei. You joke about this, but my gym has recently made up their own Muay Thai shorts with belt colors on them based on a new grading system. I think they're pretty neat, but the first run of them screwed up the Thai writing to mean something other than what they wanted. "Open Cushion" instead of "Open Mat". 
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Nov 30, 2014 19:14
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