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Ehud posted:Also, who cares about winning a Heisman? Manziel won a Heisman, so did Tebow, Troy Smith, Matt Leinart and Chris Weinke. That isn't an indicator of future success. Tangential to this conversation, who was the last Heisman winner to really make an impact in the NFL? My homer brain wants to say Charles Woodson but it took him a few years to even get his groove in the NFL, and even then he wasn't an all-star CB like Revis. There must be someone I'm forgetting between 1997-2014, right?
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Dec 2, 2014 13:54
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C-Euro posted:Tangential to this conversation, who was the last Heisman winner to really make an impact in the NFL? My homer brain wants to say Charles Woodson but it took him a few years to even get his groove in the NFL, and even then he wasn't an all-star CB like Revis. There must be someone I'm forgetting between 1997-2014, right? Charles Woodson had a major impact pretty much.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:04
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C-Euro posted:Tangential to this conversation, who was the last Heisman winner to really make an impact in the NFL? My homer brain wants to say Charles Woodson but it took him a few years to even get his groove in the NFL, and even then he wasn't an all-star CB like Revis. There must be someone I'm forgetting between 1997-2014, right? Ricky Williams was the best at his position for a while, Carson Palmer has had a good career, Reggie Bush...eh, Cam Newton has had a respectable career so far. But yeah, nobody at Woodson's level since Woodson.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:07
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Ehud posted:Ricky Williams was the best at his position for a while, Carson Palmer has had a good career, Reggie Bush...eh, Cam Newton has had a respectable career so far. Nor at Barry's level since Barry.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:10
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mcmagic posted:Because he's huge, he has a terrific arm, plays in a pro style offense. A bunch of the picks he's had this season wern't his fault too and no one was saying anything about his decision making last year.... I would be shocked if he fails for on the field reasons. He's got the physical tools and last year I would agree with you. This year I've seen him play down to the competition of some fairly lackluster ACC defenses to be as convinced. He might be a serviceable NFL QB but right now I don't see him being a very good one. Someone said career backup and I would pin my money on that right now.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:16
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Is Vinny the best QB Heisman in the NFL back to Staubach? With a mostly full career Carson Palmer seems to be his only competition.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:24
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Ehud posted:Ricky Williams was the best at his position for a while, Carson Palmer has had a good career, Reggie Bush...eh, Cam Newton has had a respectable career so far. I think that Reggie Bush has had a respectable career but not an amazing one. Not as good as Ricky but still has been helpful factor for his teams. I'd say Carson Palmer has been the best of them all besides Vinny and Staubach.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:41
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Cam was ROTY and has been to a bunch of pro bowls and set shitloads of records but yeah i guess the best heisman qb was a journeyman who's only accomplishment was staying healthy for three decades.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:43
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^^--yeah I'm ok with rating Cam above Vinny provisionally, I guess I was more wondering about the older guys No seriously with all the amazing quarterbacks that have played in anyone's lifetime here's the Heisman list. 2013: Jameis Winston 2012: JFF 2011: RG3 2010: Cam Newton 2008: Sam Bradford ---here's the end of where we can hold out hope for guys to become awesome 2007: Tim Tebow 2006: Troy Smith 2004: Matt Leinart 2003: Jason White 2002: Carson Palmer (actually good even if you're a Bengals fan compared to the rest) 2001: Eric Crouch 2000: Chris Weinke 1996: Danny Wuerffel 1993: Charlie Ward 1992: Gino Torretta 1990: Ty Detmer 1989: Andre Ware 1986: Vinny Testaverde 1984: Doug Flutie --here there be running backs 1971: Pat Sullivan 1970: Jim Plunkett (sort of good, not really good) 1967: Gary Beban (who?) 1966: Steve Spurrier (hilarious coach, terrible NFL QB) 1964: John Huarte 1963: Staubach Goddamn I didn't think it was that bleak. Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 14:43
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FizFashizzle posted:Cam's was ROTY and has been to a bunch of pro bowls and set shitloads of records but yeah i guess the best heisman qb was a journeyman who's only accomplishment was staying healthy for three decades. So Cams about on par with RG3
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Dec 2, 2014 14:44
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Jameis Winston will be eaten alive by the NY market.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:56
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Chilichimp posted:Jameis Winston will be eaten alive by the NY market.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:11
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mcmagic posted:Because he's just a bad guy and won't be able to stay out of trouble or because he won't be good? Yes.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:11
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Ozu posted:I think the opposite. Some coddled egg who's never faced media adversity is going to have a much worse time adjusting when they inevitably poo poo the bed as a rookie QB. well that's one way to turn a problem into a strength.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:15
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Eifert Posting posted:So who's your example for a guy who's just a jackass?
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Dec 2, 2014 15:16
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JT Jag posted:Terrell Owens was the protoypical jackass who never actually did anything bad off the field. He had that weird suicide thing we never really got the real story behind but yeah I guess that isn't awful compared to say anything that's happened in the NFL this year.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:18
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Retail Slave posted:Yes. HOW ARE YOU THIS BAD
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Dec 2, 2014 15:24
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That Works posted:So Cams about on par with RG3 RG3 had problems under his feet, not with his feet.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:26
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Relentlessboredomm posted:You do understand that almost the entire receiving corps is new this year and he lost his best/favorite receiver to the draft plus the overall roster is much moreinexperienced than last year? Winston is essentially acting as the bridge between last years experienced/talented team and this years young/talented team. He's still not great with ball security but I definitely think it's been exacerbated by circumstances. Also, The receivers run dogshit routes half the time and the running game has been awful compared to last year. We're going to lose our DC again aren't we.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:29
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at FSU has overachieving QBs. They don't overachieve at all, loving Manuel was precisely the QB he's always been just with better coaching because Jimbo is great at developing QBs. He can't magically make EJ Manuel stop being an inaccurate moron or make Jameis stop being loose with the ball (although he tries) but he does help them take advantage of their tools.
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Ozu posted:I think the opposite. Some coddled egg who's never faced media adversity is going to have a much worse time adjusting when they inevitably poo poo the bed as a rookie QB. He's going to keep loving up, and his antics are going to make him a target. He needs to go somewhere and just loving marinate, like Johnny in Cleveland. If he ends up in NY he's going to just loving collapse. He thought the media coverage was bad at FSU being a national champion? Guess what, fucker, you're the starting QB in the biggest media market in the world.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:31
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Ehud posted:What does this even mean? It's not like I represent the collective consciousness of TFF. I think both of them will be out of the league within a few years. So you're going to blame him for "almost" losing games but not give him credit for actually not losing those games...
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Dec 2, 2014 15:56
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African AIDS cum posted:
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Dec 2, 2014 16:02
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mcmagic posted:So you're going to blame him for "almost" losing games but not give him credit for actually not losing those games... this is controversial but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that him looking bad against colorado school of mines or whatever is the problem most people are looking at right now
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Dec 2, 2014 16:03
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Time posted:this is controversial but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that him looking bad against colorado school of mines or whatever is the problem most people are looking at right now This went right over my head... huh?
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Dec 2, 2014 16:07
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mcmagic posted:This went right over my head... huh? almost losing to half his garbage schedule is not a good sign regardless of them winning in spite of his bad play
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Dec 2, 2014 16:10
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Time posted:almost losing to half his garbage schedule is not a good sign regardless of them winning in spite of his bad play He was the MVP of the national championship game last season and we're going to get to see him play much better competition in the next few weeks. Lets see how it goes.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:14
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mcmagic posted:He was the MVP of the national championship game last season and we're going to get to see him play much better competition in the next few weeks. Lets see how it goes. You keep going back to his redshirt Freshman year. He is playing at nowhere near the level he played that year. Stop going back to it.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:20
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Shouldn't we just have a toxx for if he becomes good or not good in the nfl? That's the ultimate put up or shut up, is it not?
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Dec 2, 2014 16:26
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My grandpa is quite possibly literally gay for Roger Staubach, and he's a gun toting business owning republican
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Dec 2, 2014 16:29
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Top Hats Monthly posted:My grandpa is quite possibly literally gay for Roger Staubach, and he's a gun toting business owning republican would
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Dec 2, 2014 16:30
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But seriously, I love Jameis and I wouldn't mind drafting him at all, but the INTs are concerning. The last QB to throw that many in a season and still be drafted high was Matt Ryan. He threw 19 his senior year. I also think Mariota's ability to transition from a college spread system is concerning. We just tried that with Geno.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:38
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Ozu posted:But seriously, I love Jameis and I wouldn't mind drafting him at all, but the INTs are concerning. The last QB to throw that many in a season and still be drafted high was Matt Ryan. He threw 19 his senior year. They have to get competent people to lead an extensive investigation of him off the field. If that checks out, I agree.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:44
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mcmagic posted:They have to get competent people to lead an extensive investigation of him off the field. If that checks out, I agree. Yeah I don't think the Jets are capable of doing anything competent right now.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:03
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I want Dak Prescott to have a great combine and the Jets to draft him way too high.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:21
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This kid was in my section last night. He was quite popular. mcmagic posted:They have to get competent people to lead an extensive investigation of him off the field. If that checks out, I agree.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:46
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Ozu posted:This kid was in my section last night. He was quite popular. Giving a coach complete personnel control doesn't seem to work all that well. I think it starts with Woody hiring a president of football ops with a clue and leting him completely blow up the franchise and put it back together. The guys who he has there now are complete stooges.
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Dec 2, 2014 18:15
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mcmagic posted:Giving a coach complete personnel control doesn't seem to work all that well. I think it starts with Woody hiring a president of football ops with a clue and leting him completely blow up the franchise and put it back together. The guys who he has there now are complete stooges. Hey Holmgren is available. ..
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Dec 2, 2014 18:23
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Alouicious posted:You keep going back to his redshirt Freshman year. He is playing at nowhere near the level he played that year. Stop going back to it. AKA the Josh Freeman corollary for QB assessment
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Dec 2, 2014 19:06
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DrKennethNoisewater posted:AKA the Josh Freeman corollary for QB assessment Thank you, I was trying to remember his name and wasn't motivated enough to google it. Winston reminds of Freeman in a lot of ways, actually... it's gotta be that smirk of disbelief after loving up a drive. VVV Yeah, good loving point VVV Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 19:27
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I want Jameis to go to the Jets because I do not like Jameis
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Dec 2, 2014 19:54
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