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hobbesmaster posted:I last flew on a DC-9-50 in 2012 I think it was? Delta stopped flying them. The only DC-9's I really see any more are Jet Setter. They're all RNAV equipped too!
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Dec 2, 2014 14:02
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fknlo posted:Delta stopped flying them. The only DC-9's I really see any more are Jet Setter. They're all RNAV equipped too! Yeah, last year? One of the routes they ran to the end with DC-9s was where I live to ATL. That was replaced with 717s.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:30
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hobbesmaster posted:Yeah, last year? One of the routes they ran to the end with DC-9s was where I live to ATL. That was replaced with 717s. January 2014.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:31
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Eh, 11 months, 12 months.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:32
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I was on a 9-50 on Delta this year in January. I kind of miss them, but the interiors were poo poo. They used to fly over my old office, right by the GSO airport. The ones you could hear were the 9s.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:07
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bull3964 posted:I kind of like the way southwest does seating, but that's probably because I managed to get into the early boarding groups on all my legs. I did choose poorly on the way home though. This is common when traveling across time zones with Southwest. If you have a multi-hop flight originating in an EST/EDT airport connecting through an airport in any other timezone going west you get to reserve your place in line a few hours ahead of everyone else thanks to a loophole in their 24 hour prior check in system - when you check in for your first flight it checks you in for all of your flights even if you're actually checking in 25+ hours before. I flew from CAK to DEN to SJC twice in the past two years, and each time I've done really well on the outgoing flights. The same system bites you in the rear end flying west to east - I don't think I ever had a boarding position that was better than the end of the B group or start of the C coming home.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:21
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Jonny Nox posted:No Pfeil? Shame! And it was still quite fast if you lost one engine.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I was on a 9-50 on Delta this year in January. I kind of miss them, but the interiors were poo poo. They used to fly over my old office, right by the GSO airport. The ones you could hear were the 9s. Seeing the 717s after an airport only having CRJs, DC-9s and MD-88s is weird. The high bypass engines make them look like scaled up CRJs or something. edit: vvv too bad "you'd hear Delta laughing but its drowned out by the JT8Ds" is a year out of date hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 16:41
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:They have 499 NGs and 135 Classics. If there was ever a grounding of the NG, they would be properly hosed. A grounding that affected every NG in the Southwest fleet would gently caress everybody, not just Southwest. (Well, I guess Spirit and Frontier would be okay.)
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Dec 2, 2014 16:43
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Inacio posted:It's probably the sexiest plane, imo (Blackbird isn't even worth mentioning, good luck ever making a plane that beautiful). drat you! For a brief, glorious moment I thought they'd gotten the 1:1 scale flying! 
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Dec 2, 2014 17:28
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Ardeem posted:drat you! For a brief, glorious moment I thought they'd gotten the 1:1 scale flying! Soon. Soooon. Maybe. Probably not it keeps getting delayed =(
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Dec 2, 2014 17:40
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Godholio posted:SAC used to have fighters. I assume the term is a holdover from when a fighter didn't do everything. You had pursuit, intercept, escort, etc. This, essentially. "Tactical Fighter" was more cool and buzzwordy than "fighter-bomber."
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Dec 2, 2014 17:43
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MrChips posted:If you're racing around with a fleet of aircraft that seat 136 passengers, the only way you can manage capacity is through frequency... Not quite: Different sub-models of the same airframe. An "all-737" carrier could be running 737s that seat anywhere from 108-174 in a typical two-class layout, more if you go single but the range is the important part here. Not just Boeing planes either - It's why Frontier operates A318s, A319s, and A320s just like Southwest or Ryanair operate 737s. You get the "single airframe" parts commonality and pilot certification and all that, but you have flexibility on seating. MrChips posted:OK, I will admit that the grounding scenario is pretty outrageous, but it is far from implausible at the same time. actually I'd say it's the exact definition of implausible. It's exceedingly unlikely, but it is a possibility that has to be considered for disaster planning/worst case scenario. There are what, 5000 NGs flying these days? That's a shitload of flight time to find any hypothetical grounding issue kind of problem. Psion fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 19:56
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Psion posted:Not quite: Different sub-models of the same airframe. An "all-737" carrier could be running 737s that seat anywhere from 108-174 in a typical two-class layout, more if you go single but the range is the important part here. Also consider that rudders randomly fully deflecting and 737 classics falling out of the sky didn't cause a 737 grounding. A mid/early 90s 737 classic grounding would have probably saved McDonnell Douglas too.
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Dec 2, 2014 20:04
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hobbesmaster posted:I always wonder how it can possibly be economical for delta to operate its fleet of misfit planes while southwest is all 737s. I wouldn't compare it to Southwest but I don't understand Delta's fleet model either. I might be wrong but it feels like they're the most fragmented of any major US carrier when it comes to models. I guess they've found a way to make it work for them but I bet it's a monstrously complicated logistical problem. like, a lot of airlines try to adhere to the model of "buy new, use hard, after a while sell and then buy more new planes" so there's a shitpot of somewhat-used planes available. OK, Delta gets all those. OK, I'm with that so far ... except they seem to do it for every plane from every manufacturer. e: I looked up some 2013 financials though and it sure seems to be working, so I guess credit to whoever figured that out at Delta for being really smart. Psion fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 20:05
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Geoj posted:The same system bites you in the rear end flying west to east - I don't think I ever had a boarding position that was better than the end of the B group or start of the C coming home. Actually, my boarding position was better flying west to east. I just really chose poorly on seat because I wasn't thinking logically about it. I don't fly much so I'm a sucker for the window seat and the one I chose at random had the window slightly forward of the seat. As a result, I got robbed of a precious inch of shoulder room by the bulkhead that I would have otherwise gotten by the inset window. This guy who sat in the center seat was actually the last boarder. I was initially elated because I thought that the center seat would remain empty the whole flight and that got crushed in the most brutal way possible.
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Dec 2, 2014 20:47
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Psion posted:Not quite: Different sub-models of the same airframe. An "all-737" carrier could be running 737s that seat anywhere from 108-174 in a typical two-class layout, more if you go single but the range is the important part here. Oh I'm well aware of the various models of basically every airliner ever made...I was making a subtle jab at one airline specifically; one who ten years ago proudly proclaimed that the 737-700 was the only size of aircraft they would ever need, and that even the 737-800 was excessively large and probably not necessary for their network. Now look at them, with their -600s, -800s and Q400s, to say nothing of the incoming 767s... E: It should be noted that while there is obviously a huge amount of commonality between the variants of a single type, there is still enough differences between them in many aspects. For example, a 737-700 typically requires three flight attendants, while the -800 requires four and the -900ER, depending on configuration and the local regulations, could need as many as five. The -900ER, again depending on local regulation, may require a "differences class" for the aircrew, on account of the difficulty handling that aircraft over the other members of the 737 family. MrChips fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 21:11
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Psion posted:I wouldn't compare it to Southwest but I don't understand Delta's fleet model either. I might be wrong but it feels like they're the most fragmented of any major US carrier when it comes to models. I guess they've found a way to make it work for them but I bet it's a monstrously complicated logistical problem. It's all about balance for DL. Cost of capital is still a significant portion of expenditure on aircraft. WN was so desperate to get rid of the 717s they inherited from AirTran that they a) gave them back to Boeing on the cheap so that Delta got a really nice lease rate and b) paid for the cabin retrofit on each one (about a million bucks an aircraft). It's sort of like buying a car. You can buy a new Prius for 25k that gets 45 mpg, which is great! Or you can buy a used Corolla for 15k that gets 35 mpg. If you're running a profit-making enterprise, and your customers don't really care about a Corolla versus a Prius, that $10k capital difference buys a poo poo load of gas. Delta is also helped by the current state of oil prices. If you saw oil prices go back to $140/bbl, Delta would not look quite so good. At $80/bbl, they look incredible.
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Dec 2, 2014 21:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It's all about balance for DL. Cost of capital is still a significant portion of expenditure on aircraft. WN was so desperate to get rid of the 717s they inherited from AirTran that they a) gave them back to Boeing on the cheap so that Delta got a really nice lease rate and b) paid for the cabin retrofit on each one (about a million bucks an aircraft). The regularly updated interiors help a lot, those 717s have brand new interiors and their 20 year old MD88 fleet is getting new interiors too. I think a lot of people would be happy with a 2000 Corolla if the interior was all brand new.
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Dec 2, 2014 21:55
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hobbesmaster posted:The regularly updated interiors help a lot, those 717s have brand new interiors and their 20 year old MD88 fleet is getting new interiors too. Yeah, Delta got smart about what makes people think a plane is new. No AVOD/IFE sucks but wifi kind of makes up for it and they're mostly used on 1000mi or less segments. Edit: Delta also opportunistically jumps slots on winding down production or new aircraft that have been made available - witness the A321ceo order, the A330ceo order, and the A350 order. They also held on to Northwest's slots for the 787-8 because they were purchased so early that they are probably options that cost 2/3 of what you would pay for a 787-8 at this point. It's a weird way to run an airline, but it works. As a DL customer/nerd there's a certain amount of fun to flying on a variety of aircraft, although you never get to see the latest and greatest. 
KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 21:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:No AVOD/IFE sucks but wifi kind of makes up for it and they're mostly used on 1000mi or less segments. Virgin Australia is apparently dropping in-seat IFE across their entire fleet and installing wifi based IFE ("Android/iPhone? Great! Install our app and stream the content"). Any chance thats the way Delta may go in the end? AU doesnt have wifi Internet just yet, they're only just getting around to talking publicly about it.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:15
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Definitely a possibility, though they have new Panasonic AVOD in their new 737-900ERs. That plane has the longest god drat takeoff roll, I swear. Worse than an A332.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:21
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Psion posted:Not just Boeing planes either - It's why Frontier operates A318s, A319s, and A320s just like Southwest or Ryanair operate 737s. You get the "single airframe" parts commonality and pilot certification and all that, but you have flexibility on seating. Ryanair *only* has 737-800s. Nothing else at all, so they don't really belong in that list. Southwest has assorted sizes now, and Easyjet has A319s and A320s - they did have some A321s from buying out another airline, but they got rid of those rapidly. The full-service carriers do the same sort of balancing, of course - BA's shorthaul fleet of A320 family has a mixture of A319s, A320s and A321s, and they chop and change to suit the actual booked loads on some of the domestic routes.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:36
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Definitely a possibility, though they have new Panasonic AVOD in their new 737-900ERs. I guess that's what happens when you sardine in the contents of a 757-200 but only give it two thirds the thrust.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:36
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KingPave posted:Virgin Australia is apparently dropping in-seat IFE across their entire fleet and installing wifi based IFE ("Android/iPhone? Great! Install our app and stream the content"). Any chance thats the way Delta may go in the end? Satellite based I assume? I can't imagine that a ground based system like is prevalent in the US would work all that well with the low population density and large areas where getting Internet for a base station might be problematic. I mean, here's the base station map for Gogo in the US: 
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Dec 2, 2014 22:44
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It's a weird way to run an airline, but it works. As a DL customer/nerd there's a certain amount of fun to flying on a variety of aircraft, although you never get to see the latest and greatest. I just wish they'd keep their 747s. They're old planes, Delta! You fly old planes!  but no, I think they're getting replaced with A350s. Not even 747-8s. Psion fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 23:36
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fordan posted:Satellite based I assume? I can't imagine that a ground based system like is prevalent in the US would work all that well with the low population density and large areas where getting Internet for a base station might be problematic. If it's anything like my recent United flights (at least, I think so), it's a server in the plane that hosts video locally and streams it out to the apps on demand. No internet access necessary.
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Dec 2, 2014 23:46
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hannibal posted:If it's anything like my recent United flights (at least, I think so), it's a server in the plane that hosts video locally and streams it out to the apps on demand. No internet access necessary. Yup, its local and the server is in one of the kitchen areas.
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Dec 3, 2014 00:06
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Psion posted:I just wish they'd keep their 747s. They're old planes, Delta! You fly old planes! I am pretty pumped for the A350s but they're all going to be on Pacific routes which I never fly.
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Dec 3, 2014 00:41
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Psion posted:I just wish they'd keep their 747s. They're old planes, Delta! You fly old planes! Did they decide on A350s? I thought they were still deciding between the A350 and a 787 variant?
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Dec 3, 2014 00:47
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Iridium posted:Soon. Soooon. Where do they post updates?
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Dec 3, 2014 02:12
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MrYenko posted:Ahem. I'm not sure having created one of history's ugliest aircraft is something to be proud of. It is, however, the only aircraft ever designed that is capable of expressing ennui  From here
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Dec 3, 2014 02:17
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I'm not sure having created one of history's ugliest aircraft is something to be proud of. This is the one that has two jet engines in the back of it, right? And counter rotating props on the nose? Saw one of those at AirVenture. Thing is loving weird.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:22
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Psion posted:Not just Boeing planes either - It's why Frontier operates A318s, A319s, and A320s just like Southwest or Ryanair operate 737s. You get the "single airframe" parts commonality and pilot certification and all that, but you have flexibility on seating. Actually all of Frontier's A318s have been cut up, or will be soon. Which is pretty weird given that they're barely ten years old, but A32x parts are worth more than a tiny version of the A32x that can't carry enough paying passengers, apparently.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:26
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I'm not sure having created one of history's ugliest aircraft is something to be proud of. I just looked it up and jesus christ it's ungodly loving uglyass plane. It shouldn't fly. It's way too ugly to fly.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:31
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Inacio posted:I just looked it up and jesus christ it's ungodly I was going to try to say "then why do Rutan designs fly" to piss you off, but even I can't say that ironically 
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Dec 3, 2014 02:35
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CommieGIR posted:The server is in one of the kitchen areas.  On this topic of in-flight data transfer, did anyone see about the F22 using its radar as a datalink? I thought that was pretty cool.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:44
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hannibal posted:If it's anything like my recent United flights (at least, I think so), it's a server in the plane that hosts video locally and streams it out to the apps on demand. No internet access necessary. Was figuring that was the case for the BYOB IFE device, probably should have narrowed my quote to just the wifi internet part since that's what I was referring
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Dec 3, 2014 03:06
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Spaced God posted:This is the one that has two jet engines in the back of it, right? And counter rotating props on the nose? Saw one of those at AirVenture. Thing is loving weird. The Gannet has a weird engine, to say the least. The Armstrong Siddeley Double Mamba consisted of two Mambas siamesed through a common gearbox driving a single contra-rotating propeller...except that it really wasn't a common gearbox, as each individual Mamba drove its own propeller and did not have the ability to drive the other propeller. As weird as this sounds, there was a method to their madness; it allowed the aircrew to shut down one engine during long patrols. Also, this configuration led to an unusual starting procedure. Normally, the Double Mamba is cartridge started, with a cartridge for each engine. However it was found later on that you could start both engines with only one cartridge; you would use the cartridge to start the engine driving the forward propeller, then use the propeller wash from the running engine to windmill start the second engine. MrChips fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 03:36
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simplefish posted:
AESA radars are cool.
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