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Bloody posted:
taken from an internet of things eval kit demo software
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:19 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 03:08 |
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Bloody posted:c on seagulls seagfaullt
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:24 |
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CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:yo yospos, i need a new language. I've been a C programmer for a long time now and i find that i need to write one-off tools and poo poo to process data that's sort of a pain to do a lot of in C. ive used ruby to do some poo poo and while its ok, it loving sucks when it comes to concurrency and robinius or whatever sucks because while it supports threading, its IO is dog slow for whatever reason. the fastest things to write one-off tools with are scripting languages: ruby, perl, python. all of them are dog slow and have broken concurrency. usually this does not matter. often i don't really care if my lovely ruby script takes an hour to run, because i'm only gonna run it once i've sometimes come to use scala for my lovely one-off tools, because then i have an interactive repl like perl/ruby but i can call into java libraries and use fast java i/o and poo poo
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:29 |
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tef posted:go fix & go fmt themselves make go stand out from other languages. gofmt is the only thing i find cool about golang having a canonical format for code is something so many languages have hosed up. no amount of perltidy is a substitute for a single, definitive method of formatting
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:31 |
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JewKiller 3000 posted:come on, perl(1). i said not EVER, for ANYTHING. i expect *.pl to be deleted from my system. DO WHAT I MEAN. BONGHITZ posted:only a churl would use perl Shaggar posted:all languages that start with p are bad. perl, python, php, ruby, etc... all terrible languages that no one should use irl. Ok, I'll bite. Why so much hate for Perl? Or, specifically, why is it a bad fit for CRIP EATIN BREAD's problem space? Or should I chalk this up to tef's yospos.txt, a short play?
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:32 |
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HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:God is there anything worse in the whole world than trying to untangle javascript spaghetti code you start off with good intentions but the whole language is so hosed that you end up with a file full of functions you c&ped from stackoverflow
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:37 |
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dbcooper posted:Ok, I'll bite. perl concurrency is not as loving broken as python/ruby, but it's still pretty unpleasant. http://perldoc.perl.org/threads.html#BUGS-AND-LIMITATIONS there is an entire second threading system called ithreads, which is even buggier and even more broken, but has the advantage that it allows you to get better gc behavior
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:38 |
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AlsoD posted:there's still HASKELL come on, nobody?
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:39 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the fastest things to write one-off tools with are scripting languages: ruby, perl, python. all of them are dog slow and have broken concurrency. usually this does not matter. often i don't really care if my lovely ruby script takes an hour to run, because i'm only gonna run it once yeah the problem is one of my lovely ruby one offs (take a large data file that is ascii and manipulate it to send to a database) is taking forever, as in a week. the problem is that parsing the file itself requires a lot of string manipulation (its a horrible format GDF 3.0), that also depends on character counting utf8 characters so writing a parser in C sucks. not to mention parsing out each field requires all sorts of string -> number, etc etc. but ruby not having the ability to pool a set of connections is a huge pain because everything has to be synchronous.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:43 |
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dbcooper posted:Ok, I'll bite. PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:49 |
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Perl is not the fractal of bad design that PHP is, but it's predicated on a handful of really appalling design decisions which manifest themselves in every part of the language, like "context-sensitivity is a good idea", "more things should be implicit", "parentheses generally don't do anything", "weak typing is rad", and TMTOWTDI
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:51 |
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CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:yeah the problem is one of my lovely ruby one offs (take a large data file that is ascii and manipulate it to send to a database) is taking forever, as in a week. it's time to move to scala or groovy or even straight-up java massively improved string handling (over C) real parsers and parser generators easy-peasy connection pooling concurrency hella faster than p-langs
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:54 |
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Perl code:
qntm fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Dec 3, 2014 |
# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:54 |
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i kinda/sorta agree with this guy (but i prefer to use other jvm-based languages rather than straight java all the time) http://www.teamten.com/lawrence/writings/java-for-everything.html
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:55 |
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Perl code:
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 19:57 |
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Perl is not only bad but also dead as awk
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 20:00 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:gofmt is the only thing i find cool about golang A few Scala-based projects I've seen on Github ask to use Scalariform for formatting and it works pretty nicely. IntelliJ helps a lot too by cleaning up unused imports.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 20:07 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:
actually I misled you with a typo in my code, it's actually pre:use strict; use warnings; my $string = "hello world"; print reverse $string; # "hello world" print reverse "hello world"; # "hello world" print scalar reverse "hello world"; # "drlow olleh" qntm fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Dec 3, 2014 |
# ? Dec 3, 2014 20:09 |
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list vs scalar context is perl's original sin
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 20:11 |
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tef posted:actually i'd say erlang shines better at distributed systems, not just middleware: for http shunting, or where components have very little interaction between them, then the overhead of erlang's share nothing architecture doesn't really bring much when as is, the daemons are run in pools and share nothing anyway. For me the big cost of Go comes when you gotta debug and maintain your stack. Whipping out GDB and inspecting stacks is dumb poo poo that nobody should have to do in TYOL 2014. tef posted:unfortunately, erlang's binary and string handling are clumsy I don't want to ever do bit packing by hand anymore. It's also bullshit nobody should have to do in TYOL 2014.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 20:40 |
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alright pram you were right go is pretty cool. gives me the jvm without having to deal with java's verbosity and structural shortcomings
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 20:57 |
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Yeah it's epic .. Glad you enjoy it
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:01 |
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scala would be cool if it was slightly less terse or better-documented or something. idk.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:02 |
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i guess i don't really know why i would use scala
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:02 |
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CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:yeah the problem is one of my lovely ruby one offs (take a large data file that is ascii and manipulate it to send to a database) is taking forever, as in a week. if you used python there would always be pypy and or cython
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:03 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it's time to move to scala or groovy or even straight-up java lol sbt
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:04 |
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i wish i could decouple go from the heavy runtime though. maybe rust is good for that
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:08 |
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Bloody posted:i guess i don't really know why i would use scala some people use it because they are fp spergs i use it as an improved java
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:09 |
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tef posted:lol sbt sbt is a crime. it enables a few cute use cases but the insides are terrible, writing the project files is hell, and since sbt can only be built with sbt, no linux distributions package it.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:10 |
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Bloody posted:i guess i don't really know why i would use scala scala is so people can use java but pretend they aren't using java. its stupid and worthless. just use java.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:10 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:some people use it because they are fp spergs Yeah but I use c# as an improved Java already :-/
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:11 |
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MononcQc posted:I don't want to ever do bit packing by hand anymore. It's also bullshit nobody should have to do in TYOL 2014. i'm wrong can't think what i meant by that, i think it was more "the built in strings are bad, and using binaries as a substitute is only a performance improvement"
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:11 |
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CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:yeah the problem is one of my lovely ruby one offs (take a large data file that is ascii and manipulate it to send to a database) is taking forever, as in a week. how large cause im using cython with a few lines of C and processing about 1 tb of gzips a day and shoving it in postgres.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:12 |
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pram posted:Perl is not only bad but also dead as awk I know 3 moderately large companies that are desperate for perl programmers
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:15 |
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tef posted:lol sbt
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:16 |
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I know two companies that invested heavily in scala and both now have draconian "no new scala code" policies in place and have switched over to plain java.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:18 |
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and I hear twitter is giving up on it too
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:18 |
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scala lets the architecture astronaut types write code so clever not even they understand it. which is a pity because the scripting, interactivity, implicit type conversions, and local type inference are all fuckin dynamite additions to java
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:25 |
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rotor posted:I know 3 moderately large companies that are desperate for perl programmers dammit, where were you three months ago when i was trying to find a job?
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:35 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 03:08 |
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i don't know anyone who likes scala but i know people who like closure. never used it though but its confusing to try to read.
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# ? Dec 3, 2014 21:35 |