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The Warszawa posted:In New York the defendant has a right to do this. But most don't. There's clearly something special about this sort of situation that leads defendants to believe showing up at the Grand Jury will benefit them that doesn't apply in most cases.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:51
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Garner had over 30 arrests, starting from when he was 16 years old. Is it so hard to follow the law? If blacks really hate interacting with the police so much why not, you know, fly straight? I'm not saying dude should literally die for peddling illegal cigarettes, but come on. Get a real job, a legal job, comply with police direction if in the rare case you happen to talk to police. Most of us law-abiding citizens just do what the cops say to do so we can go about our business. Oh I got a speeding ticket, thank you officer. No one wants to hang around cops longer than they have to. But if you're always committing crimes, no poo poo the cops are gonna hassle you. If a cop looks at you and you're on a first name basis you hosed up in life and you can't just have your weeping parents in a press conference talk about how you were going to go far if only the white man hadn't held you down. So fuckin ridiculous how race relations are right now that you have to tiptoe around criminals if your skin colors dont match. Better call in backup for this arrest, its a black man.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:53
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nm posted:Yes it will. City of Rialto had a dirty police force. Since dashcams, use of force and complaints have collapsed. I hope that's true, but it's hard to be that optimistic when they can still kill people on camera and it doesn't even see a trial.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:54
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Get a real job Or you will be choked to death on camera and the cop who did it will get a paid vacation. gently caress you.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:54
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Garner had over 30 arrests, starting from when he was 16 years old. Is it so hard to follow the law? If blacks really hate interacting with the police so much why not, you know, fly straight? I'm not saying dude should literally die for peddling illegal cigarettes, but come on. Get a real job, a legal job, comply with police direction if in the rare case you happen to talk to police. Most of us law-abiding citizens just do what the cops say to do so we can go about our business. Oh I got a speeding ticket, thank you officer. No one wants to hang around cops longer than they have to. But if you're always committing crimes, no poo poo the cops are gonna hassle you. If a cop looks at you and you're on a first name basis you hosed up in life and you can't just have your weeping parents in a press conference talk about how you were going to go far if only the white man hadn't held you down. So fuckin ridiculous how race relations are right now that you have to tiptoe around criminals if your skin colors dont match. Better call in backup for this arrest, its a black man. You should inform yourself on the chokehold policy in that department.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:55
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Garner had over 30 arrests, starting from when he was 16 years old. Is it so hard to follow the law? If blacks really hate interacting with the police so much why not, you know, fly straight? I'm not saying dude should literally die for peddling illegal cigarettes, but come on. Get a real job, a legal job, comply with police direction if in the rare case you happen to talk to police. Most of us law-abiding citizens just do what the cops say to do so we can go about our business. Oh I got a speeding ticket, thank you officer. No one wants to hang around cops longer than they have to. But if you're always committing crimes, no poo poo the cops are gonna hassle you. If a cop looks at you and you're on a first name basis you hosed up in life and you can't just have your weeping parents in a press conference talk about how you were going to go far if only the white man hadn't held you down. So fuckin ridiculous how race relations are right now that you have to tiptoe around criminals if your skin colors dont match. Better call in backup for this arrest, its a black man. It's obvious that you're trolling, so for anyone who isn't aware of the case we're talking about, it's the one where the cop put a guy they were arresting (and there were several cops already on the guy) in a choke hold until he died.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:56
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ActusRhesus posted:the ones who there was proof beyond a reasonable doubt were complicit in fraud? Yes. I would charge them with whatever could be proven. The deterrent message alone, I think, would be worth it. I guess that's just a different view on the matter. I would think it would have been a sufficient deterrent, and would have far fewer social costs, to criminally charge executives and directors and seize all corporate assets, but at least you're consistent with the lock 'em all up approach. Of course there are still the broader issues that cause the criminal justice system to have acted only marginally in the case of massive financial fraud, while vastly greater resources were poured and continue to be poured into drug enforcement. That's far less up to the discretion of any individual DA of course, but it's absolutely telling that the same people who gladly put mid level non-violent drug offenders in prison aren't putting their resources into (with very few exceptions) charging even the most senior executives of organizations that committed crimes involving far larger sums of money.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:56
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:Garner had over 30 arrests, starting from when he was 16 years old. Is it so hard to follow the law? If blacks really hate interacting with the police so much why not, you know, fly straight? I'm not saying dude should literally die for peddling illegal cigarettes, but come on. Get a real job, a legal job, comply with police direction if in the rare case you happen to talk to police. Most of us law-abiding citizens just do what the cops say to do so we can go about our business. Oh I got a speeding ticket, thank you officer. No one wants to hang around cops longer than they have to. But if you're always committing crimes, no poo poo the cops are gonna hassle you. If a cop looks at you and you're on a first name basis you hosed up in life and you can't just have your weeping parents in a press conference talk about how you were going to go far if only the white man hadn't held you down. So fuckin ridiculous how race relations are right now that you have to tiptoe around criminals if your skin colors dont match. Better call in backup for this arrest, its a black man. Please, sauce your quotes
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Dec 3, 2014 20:57
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They probably decided that if you have enough breath to yell "I can't breathe", you can in fact breath. Now please get off me so I can continue to fight you and resist arrest.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:02
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GlyphGryph posted:But most don't. There's clearly something special about this sort of situation that leads defendants to believe showing up at the Grand Jury will benefit them that doesn't apply in most cases. Yeah, they're police officers.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:03
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Spun Dog posted:You should inform yourself on the chokehold policy in that department. I am informed that chokeholds are not allowed. I am also informed that if a police officer told me to put my hands behind my back that I was under arrest, I would do so. It wouldn't take 5 police officers to effect an arrest. But that's because I don't have over 30 run-ins with the law. Those who have made a career of scoffing at the law don't deign to respect those who enforce it. awesmoe posted:Please, sauce your quotes SomethingAwful.com Lemming posted:It's obvious that you're trolling, so for anyone who isn't aware of the case we're talking about, it's the one where the cop put a guy they were arresting (and there were several cops already on the guy) in a choke hold until he died. You should learn what trolling is, hint it's not going against the hive mind opinion. Cops need reform and if you read my post I wrote that selling cigs illegally shouldnt be a death sentence.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:03
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You're probably right, if you roll the dice against the cops 30 times, they are probably going to gently caress up and kill you eventually.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:06
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:You should learn what trolling is, hint it's not going against the hive mind opinion. Cops need reform and if you read my post I wrote that selling cigs illegally shouldnt be a death sentence. So why is his history even worth mentioning? Google "victim blaming" and shut up.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:09
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Lemming posted:That's interesting, I didn't know that, but I was more insinuating that I feel it's likely that the prosecution treated him like Wilson. In NY the defendant has a right to testify in narrative form - the prosecutor can ask questions but has to give the defendant the opportunity to tell their story, uninterrupted, even to the point of allowing them to bring in their own evidence. NY is very defendant-protective, even if it's still usually a bad idea to testify to a grand jury there.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:11
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A HOT TOPIC posted:They probably decided that if you have enough breath to yell "I can't breathe", you can in fact breath. Now please get off me so I can continue to fight you and resist arrest. Medical professionals are trained to recognize that if a person can speak in greater-than-three word sentences they can in fact breathe. So there's no reason to believe his airway isn't potentially obstructed going off of that sentence. Not that it loving matters because the cops denied Garner CPR and other resuscitative interventions and the EMT/medics didn't even bother when they arrived (incidentally they did lose their jobs because they were, like every non-cop person, held accountable for their actions).
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Dec 3, 2014 21:13
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Saying "I can't breathe"? Sounds like breathing to me  Not saying "I can't breathe?" Guess there's no problem Dead? Have fun even getting anyone to say I did anything wrong. Edit: in the alternate universe where a cop can be charged for anything less than a sexually oriented beheading during the superbowl halftime... I got charged? Well enjoy your agonizing trial that I'm definitely going to win
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Dec 3, 2014 21:21
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Is it too much to hope that the feds might look into this for potential prosecution? I can understand (if not agree with) why they wouldn't do so in Ferguson but this case...I mean what the gently caress. This decision is so much more surreal than the Wilson one.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:23
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Waiting for the racists to come out of the woodwork with the classic, "This is the one you choose to latch onto?"
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Dec 3, 2014 21:25
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Honestly Crawford was the most egregious to me since he wasn't even remotely doing anything illegal, was gunned down on the spot, and a woman died due to a heart attack when the police were playing SWAT team. White people came out in force to make up absurd stories about him pointing the toy gun aggressively at children and not dropping the gun after being ordered even when the video showed he was straight up murdered. If that didn't result in anything, nothing will.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:27
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Lemming posted:That's interesting, I didn't know that, but I was more insinuating that I feel it's likely that the prosecution treated him like Wilson. I heard a lot of talk about how it was weird in that case, and from posters here saying it's usually in the prosecution's favor to have the person up for charges to testify, but in the released records it was very clear the prosecution treated him with kid gloves and painted him in a favorable light. I would be surprised if it was any different here. The prosecution has no power to prevent the defendant from testifying in NY, aside from not informing the defendant of the grand jury. (Good luck with that in this case) The defendant also gets full immunity, which is another place that NY differs from the norm.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:28
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Dec 3, 2014 21:29
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"Now watch this drive..."
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Dec 3, 2014 21:42
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The Pantaleo no-bill is loving mindblowing. If I did something that was specifically prohibited by unit policy because it could kill people, and someone died as a result, there's no way I would escape prosecution.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:51
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Dead Reckoning posted:The Pantaleo no-bill is loving mindblowing. If I did something that was specifically prohibited by unit policy because it could kill people, and someone died as a result, there's no way I would escape prosecution. You're a cop? You might be surprised. As for the rest of us, yes of course.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:00
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You know, I was somewhat dubious of the reaction to the Michael Brown shooting since it's still possible that the officer in that shooting was actually in real danger, but this case has me absolutely loving livid. Seriously how the gently caress do you get video evidence of a dude being strangled to death while he is even saying that he can't breathe and no charges are filed? Absolute nonsense. I hope this gets even bigger protests than the Michael Brown shooting across even more cities. I'm just floored, I didn't expect this to not go to trial  I mean hell this poo poo undermines the whole idea of all police needing to have cameras recording them at all times, we had video of this poo poo and it still didn't even matter so maybe those wouldn't actually make a drat bit of difference. Ugh.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:01
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Cubey posted:I hope this gets even bigger protests than the Michael Brown shooting across even more cities. I'm just floored, I didn't expect this to not go to trial They're lighting the rockefeller christmas tree tonight, right? I hope the protestors loving cut the power.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:03
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Unzip and Attack posted:Is it too much to hope that the feds might look into this for potential prosecution? This is a lock. And I'd say it's very close to a lock he is going to Federal prison. The video is simply too clear cut. There's precedent for this: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/eric-garner-tragedy-brings-back-pain-mother-chokehold-victim-article-1.1872979
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Dec 3, 2014 22:13
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Cubey posted:You know, I was somewhat dubious of the reaction to the Michael Brown shooting since it's still possible that the officer in that shooting was actually in real danger, but this case has me absolutely loving livid. Seriously how the gently caress do you get video evidence of a dude being strangled to death while he is even saying that he can't breathe and no charges are filed? Absolute nonsense. I disagree, the only reason we know about it is because of the video. Without it it would have been reported as a he said/she said and nobody would have cared. The point is that not only do we need to have police with body cameras, we also, separately, need to have the ability to prosecute them. I don't know enough about the legal system specifically to suggest anything in particular, but it's pretty obvious that some of the mechanics are broken considering how often cops don't even get indicted.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:14
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pathetic little tramp posted:They're lighting the rockefeller christmas tree tonight, right? I hope the protestors loving cut the power.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:28
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Lemming posted:I don't know enough about the legal system specifically to suggest anything in particular, but it's pretty obvious that some of the mechanics are broken considering how often cops don't even get indicted.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:32
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Cubey posted:You know, I was somewhat dubious of the reaction to the Michael Brown shooting since it's still possible that the officer in that shooting was actually in real danger, but this case has me absolutely loving livid. Seriously how the gently caress do you get video evidence of a dude being strangled to death while he is even saying that he can't breathe and no charges are filed? Absolute nonsense. I'm just interested to see what kind of grand jury process could result in no indictment in a case like this. Like, how do you even frame something like this as a prosecutor before a grand jury and not get an indictment? Or was it just purely the demographics of the grand jury?
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Dec 3, 2014 22:32
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"David Bratton posted:Bratton also chose this tone-deaf metaphor yesterday while discussing possible protests: "We have the ability to have a level of tolerance, breathing room if you will, and we’ve been doing that for these last eight, nine days, and this is a department that has a lot of experience dealing with various forms of demonstrations, and we adjust our strategies and our tactics depending on circumstances of the moment," Bratton said. Bratton is either quite astoundingly idiotic or blatantly baiting the community. Given that he's the architect of broken windows, I'm gonna go with the latter.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:36
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Dead Reckoning posted:The main problem appears to be that the jury pool and electorate are biased in favor of the police and against minorities. There aren't a lot of good, easy solutions to that. Maybe cases against the local power structure should be carried about by individuals and organizations that are not part of it? Change of Venue is hardly a new idea, combine with a special prosecutor and you'll at least possibly reduce the impact of the bias of the jury to an extent.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:36
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Those are problems with trials. This and the Mike Brown case can be laid squarely at the feet of prosecutors tanking their own juries. I wouldn't say I know enough about this one but in Mike Brown's case Rob McCulloch is a true to life villian, who even went and spiked the ball in the face of the community after gleefully failing at his job.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:37
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I don't think there's any specific evidence of that in this case.GlyphGryph posted:Maybe cases against the local power structure should be carried about by individuals and organizations that are not part of it? Change of venue to where? It's not a localized problem.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:38
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Bratton is either quite astoundingly idiotic or blatantly baiting the community. Given that he's the architect of broken windows, I'm gonna go with the latter. Bratton over Piñeiro should've been the canary in the coal mine regarding de Blasio and policing.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:39
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Xandu posted:I don't think there's any specific evidence of that in this case. No, it's not. But the people in power aren't protecting "their own" in that case, they'd protecting someone elses. Its a minimization tactic, not an elimination one. A special prosecutor that doesn't work closely with that police force. A jury who, even if they tend to side with the police, won't be taking it personally because at least it won't be their police. Maybe it wouldn't help much. The special prosecutor at least seems to have helped in the past.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:45
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Xandu posted:I don't think there's any specific evidence of that in this case. What reason do we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, though? Cops are overwhelmingly not held responsible for what they do by the people who are supposedly meant to go after people for doing bad things. Yeah, we can't point to them doing anything wrong specifically in a lot of cases, but that seems intentional. I honestly don't know, are there already mechanisms for making sure prosecutors are doing their jobs? If there is, what are cases where it's worked? That is, managed to successfully identify a prosecutor doing something like intentionally spiking a case and being held accountable for it. If the answer is "they're elected" and "elections" then it's pretty clearly an inadequate system of checks and balances.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:47
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Lemming posted:I disagree, the only reason we know about it is because of the video. Without it it would have been reported as a he said/she said and nobody would have cared. I think there's a real risk of ubiquitous footage of cops committing serious crimes with no resulting punishment leading to a "another carbomb killed 50 people in Baghdad today" style situation. Plus it wouldn't be too long before right wingers started claiming it can't be that bad of a problem if the stuff caught on tape isn't happening to I agree both cameras and reform is best but without reform cameras could probably be rendered impotent quite rapidly.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:15
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ReV VAdAUL posted:I think there's a real risk of ubiquitous footage of cops committing serious crimes with no resulting punishment leading to a "another carbomb killed 50 people in Baghdad today" style situation. Plus it wouldn't be too long before right wingers started claiming it can't be that bad of a problem if the stuff caught on tape isn't happening to "it happens to often" is not exactly at the top of the list for why Americans looked away from death and destruction in Iraq, and I really doubt the scenario you're coming up with. We're 2 high profile cases into the "no resulting punishment" and riots are being touched off. And "right wingers" gleefully acting like human garbage is no longer an excuse to disapprove of people being human garbage. They're going to do that until they die and I'd rather we show coming generations that it isn't the norm.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:28
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