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Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
Things that are great about America.

Underwater boats http://livingstingy.blogspot.co.nz/2010/10/my-neighbors-upside-down-boat.html

Lawn mowers which look like tractors http://livingstingy.blogspot.co.nz/2010/10/do-you-need-toy-tractor.html

Gas grills worth $3000 http://livingstingy.blogspot.co.nz/2010/05/grand-turbo-2500-gas-grill.html

Keeping up with the neighbours has never been so grand.

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Scenty
Feb 8, 2008


HonorableTB posted:

but I will be firm on one thing: if I'm footing the bill for everything by myself, I and I alone will decide how money should be spent when it comes to spending on things that are non-essential. What's that dear? You want to go get $200 in art supplies? Sorry, not in the budget. Try again next month :getin:

This is pretty hosed up. Once you mutually agree to what percentages you will each pay, why should you get to dictate how she spends her money? It will end in disaster, just break up now.

grenada
Apr 20, 2013
Relax.

Devian666 posted:

Things that are great about America.

Underwater boats http://livingstingy.blogspot.co.nz/2010/10/my-neighbors-upside-down-boat.html

Lawn mowers which look like tractors http://livingstingy.blogspot.co.nz/2010/10/do-you-need-toy-tractor.html

Gas grills worth $3000 http://livingstingy.blogspot.co.nz/2010/05/grand-turbo-2500-gas-grill.html

Keeping up with the neighbours has never been so grand.

That lawn mower is clownish. You can buy sweet attachments for john deere lawn mowers which are way more functional for the typical suburban yard.

Suspicious Lump
Mar 11, 2004

spog posted:

This. The numbers all balance out the same to the bank, it's just a way of the borrower getting what he needs, within the constraints of religious rules - or at least appearing to do so.


AFAIK, Islam has a problem with interest, full stop. Not the type of interest.


Which if you follow the spirit of the law, you shouldn't be able to own anything that you can't pay cash for.

Great when a goat was an aspirational purchase. Not so good when you need a family house in the suburbs.
Nah this right, a lot of muslims would argue exactly that: All interest is wrong. But the strict definition is that usury is forbidden but for whatever reason everything is considered usury (the action or practice of lending money at unreasonably high rates of interest). The real loving problem for a lot of muslims is they are involuntary being involved in the interest system without even knowing; inflation. Similar to the reddit guy, I was once religious and refused to deal with interest. Along the way I found it was actually usury that was forbidden and that the islam scholars are loving idiots because they refuse to deal with inflation or mitigating inflation. They consider it a system of interest and therefore ignore it, when it compacts everyone. This is kinda started me off on the path of non-religionhood. Anyway, Islamic banks were doing something so close it was pretty much interest. My parents were paying 12% "rent" in the haydays when every other bank was charging about 8%. As soon as my dad told the bank he was changing they offered a massive discount, they would never pass on interest cuts because it wasn't interest!

gently caress banks and gently caress Islamic banks. 5% interest isn't usury when inflation is about 3% and an interest savings account is 3-4% (Australia).

tl;dr muslims are bad with money.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

Suspicious Lump posted:

Nah this right, a lot of muslims would argue exactly that: All interest is wrong. But the strict definition is that usury is forbidden but for whatever reason everything is considered usury (the action or practice of lending money at unreasonably high rates of interest). The real loving problem for a lot of muslims is they are involuntary being involved in the interest system without even knowing; inflation. Similar to the reddit guy, I was once religious and refused to deal with interest. Along the way I found it was actually usury that was forbidden and that the islam scholars are loving idiots because they refuse to deal with inflation or mitigating inflation. They consider it a system of interest and therefore ignore it, when it compacts everyone. This is kinda started me off on the path of non-religionhood. Anyway, Islamic banks were doing something so close it was pretty much interest. My parents were paying 12% "rent" in the haydays when every other bank was charging about 8%. As soon as my dad told the bank he was changing they offered a massive discount, they would never pass on interest cuts because it wasn't interest!

gently caress banks and gently caress Islamic banks. 5% interest isn't usury when inflation is about 3% and an interest savings account is 3-4% (Australia).

tl;dr muslims are bad with money.

There was a similar problem in the christian world 400 years ago which led to all sorts of problems. It was pretty hosed if people needed business loans to boost their business or cashflow. I've also heard how lovely muslim banks are when it comes to being deliberately inflexible so they maximise their profits.

Religion seems to involve a lot of bad financial decisions. My brother in law decided to pay off his 0% student loan early for no particular reason other than they didn't want the debt sitting there. They have more important things to do with their money but they targeted that for some reason (that was never adequately explained to me). I suppose the upside is that the portion taken out of his pay is not an issue any more.

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

I designed a unique, 100% stainless steel hulk of a charcoal grill last year that ultimately cost $8000 just in materials and labor. It had a 9" diameter screw in the sloped bottom, suspended between two external roller bearings and operated by crank, both for stirring the coals and pushing the ash out the end. On its first test run it was so hot (with the lid open) that no one could get close enough to close it. I'd put that sucker on my patio anyday.

Eugene V. Dubstep fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Dec 4, 2014

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
why so you can roast an entire cow to ash

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
It sounds safe in the way that you can't approach it to turn off the gas when it starts setting your house on fire. Water spray is a good method to approach and extinguish the fire. Water spray from the fire hose attached to the pump on a fire engine.

OneWhoKnows
Dec 6, 2006
I choo choo choooose you!

Devian666 posted:

It sounds safe in the way that you can't approach it to turn off the gas when it starts setting your house on fire. Water spray is a good method to approach and extinguish the fire. Water spray from the fire hose attached to the pump on a fire engine.

Well, that's why it's charcoal!

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
not only bad with money but bad with bbq

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

OneWhoKnows posted:

Well, that's why it's charcoal!

At least charcoal has a safe method of being extinguished. You just use a front end loader to scoop it up and then let it burn out in small piles.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you

Devian666 posted:

At least charcoal has a safe method of being extinguished. You just use a front end loader to scoop it up and then let it burn out in small piles.

That's what the minitractor is for. This is all making sense now.

Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

TFW you see Flyers goaltending.
Grimey Drawer

Old Fart posted:

Is it impossible to download music to your device from home, and/or just pretend like you're listening to music? Why does it have to be streaming? This is worth $1000/year for you?

Your office doesn't have wifi? Most people don't travel for work.

It's not a debate. Someone was asking specifically how to lower his own phone bill. Sure, some people need it, but as with the biking discussion, I think a lot more people could probably get by just fine without. Maybe that's the case for the person who specifically asked how to lower his phone bill?

I use prepaid minutes and hardly ever make calls. When I bought $100 in minutes I got a $70 dumb phone for $20. Texts are pricey, but even if I send a lot of them, it's still cheaper than a smartphone voice plan. I use my old iPhone 3G on public or work wifi, and iMessage works just great for chatting with my wife.

Somebody was asking how to lower a phone bill. This is how I do it. I have most benefits of the smartphone with none of the costs. Nobody needs to stream video on a bus. Really now. (Besides, more and more buses are starting to install wifi anyway. The "need" for data plan is diminishing in big cities.)

If you want to keep your phone, whatever. If you offer to me reasons why you need it, I can offer you alternatives. When someone specifically asks how to lower, I'm going to offer my experience, which I have not once regretted.

Funny part? I work for a cell phone company and no, the wifi at my place is fairly unusable.

I don't need to stream video on a bus. I do need to keep email working, web browser constantly connected (if anything to check the schedule, let alone sales numbers), and everything with a phone working. And I would bet most people are the Sam way, Internet is used for updates and messaging. A spartan life style on an Internet plan for a phone to save $10 a month is stupid.

Your point is valid on a high data plan versus low. A data plan of say, 1GB is cheap even on Verizon or AT&T.

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

Cultural Imperial posted:

why so you can roast an entire cow to ash

That, and I could get away with using very little charcoal. I'm not saying it's a good grill by any means, and I knew nothing about designing grills before this one, it's just badass.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013

Duckman2008 posted:

And I would bet most people are the Sam way, Internet is used for updates and messaging. A spartan life style on an Internet plan for a phone to save $10 a month is stupid.

Your point is valid on a high data plan versus low. A data plan of say, 1GB is cheap even on Verizon or AT&T.

Sigh. I was telling one person specifically how I cut my phone bill, and everybody's getting all defensive. I'm not talking about saving $10 as the choice between smartphone with or without data. I'm taking about saving $80 as the choice between smartphone and prepaid dumb phone.

I doubt most people need to be kept up to date on emails between home and the office. Proportion is likely higher on here, but we're a service economy. I see a lot of people out there with iPhone 6+s that I guarantee they don't need. I know what job a lot of them have because I'm in the same lovely industry, and they don't need email for it.

Everybody justifies that they need it. But maybe the person who specifically asked how to reduce his $180 bill can re-evaluate and decide he doesn't.

EugeneJ
Feb 5, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Old Fart posted:

Sigh. I was telling one person specifically how I cut my phone bill, and everybody's getting all defensive. I'm not talking about saving $10 as the choice between smartphone with or without data. I'm taking about saving $80 as the choice between smartphone and prepaid dumb phone.

I doubt most people need to be kept up to date on emails between home and the office. Proportion is likely higher on here, but we're a service economy. I see a lot of people out there with iPhone 6+s that I guarantee they don't need. I know what job a lot of them have because I'm in the same lovely industry, and they don't need email for it.

Everybody justifies that they need it. But maybe the person who specifically asked how to reduce his $180 bill can re-evaluate and decide he doesn't.

Investing $500 in a iPhone so you can use Apple Pay in its infancy is bad with money

Markovnikov
Nov 6, 2010

Devian666 posted:

There was a similar problem in the christian world 400 years ago which led to all sorts of problems. It was pretty hosed if people needed business loans to boost their business or cashflow. I've also heard how lovely muslim banks are when it comes to being deliberately inflexible so they maximise their profits.

Religion seems to involve a lot of bad financial decisions. My brother in law decided to pay off his 0% student loan early for no particular reason other than they didn't want the debt sitting there. They have more important things to do with their money but they targeted that for some reason (that was never adequately explained to me). I suppose the upside is that the portion taken out of his pay is not an issue any more.

Yeah, christians had the same anti-usury laws. (This might be my history classes being bad, but:) Jews were the only ones who didn't have problems with money lending, and that's how they came to be (negatively) associated with money and greed and hated on. Also why many western banks came from Jewish families. There's a whole situation in the Poema del Mio Cid (Cid Campeador) about a couple of greedy money-lending Jews that get hosed by the Cid.

I know it's a derail, but it's kind of interesting how different societies handle money. I would love to hear more about muslim banks/economy in general when they have to circumvent any sort of interest.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004
They don't circumvent interest, they just invent new terminology and contract structures to account for the necessary time value of money without explicitly calculating interest. For instance, a loan includes "profit" in a fixed sum, not interest, and a depositor is given periodic "gifts" instead of interest on their deposits. It's just word games.

jaymeekae
Aug 30, 2003

I sound hot when I swear my f*cking head off.
This poor kid kept his earnings from his McDonalds job in a jar at home. Now his Mum's gone and stolen $15k(AUS) from him.

http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/2o8rkh/au_parents_borrowing_money/

quote:

So im a college student. I work part time to get a lil pocket money. I make about $500 a week which isnt a lot but its enough for me to live. After about 1 month i got my job, i decided to start saving. It started with 50 bucks here and there and soon i would only take out $20 and put the rest away. The dumb thing was, following my parents 'advice' i hid it in a jar in my home. I had about 15k saved up from a year's worth of work. Routinely, i would count my money just to feel good about myself. I started to realise that 200-300 dollars would be missing at times, so i asked my parents. They said they needed it to pay bills. I figured fair enough. Then i decided to help them out paying bills. Thats where it all went wrong. I started to pay every bill at home (rent, utility etc) i still had money left over to save. I dont spend money cos, i work overnight so i sleep during the day. With the 15k i saved up, i was going to buy a car. Then one day, i took it out, the jar was empty. I freaked out. My mum told me she needed the money (all 15k). I didnt get it, i paid everything, she had he own money to spend on leisure, whyed she need mine. Soon i became a regular occurence, she says she'll pay me back, but every time i hassle her about it, she'd say things like "who raised you up and put a roof over your head" and " i spend my whole life raising you, are you gonna pay me back?". Honestly, i dont know what to do anymore. Im on the verge of quitting my job cos this seems pointless.

Tldr; im sick of working like a dog and having nothing to show for it

No news on what the mum needs the cash for...

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
The numbers there are a bit weird (not impossible, just unusual). In addition to being a college student, he must work just about 30 hours/week, which isn't really part-time. In a year he'd make $26k (before tax, not allowing any unpaid time off) but he's saved $15k.

If he's that hardcore about it, it's pretty weird he's just like "oh bummer, have it all for no reason."

Xenocides
Jan 14, 2008

This world looks very scary....


Markovnikov posted:

Yeah, christians had the same anti-usury laws. (This might be my history classes being bad, but:) Jews were the only ones who didn't have problems with money lending, and that's how they came to be (negatively) associated with money and greed and hated on. Also why many western banks came from Jewish families. There's a whole situation in the Poema del Mio Cid (Cid Campeador) about a couple of greedy money-lending Jews that get hosed by the Cid.

I know it's a derail, but it's kind of interesting how different societies handle money. I would love to hear more about muslim banks/economy in general when they have to circumvent any sort of interest.

The Torah has laws forbidding interest too but it is limited to fellow Israelites. For everyone else you can charge interest as you please.

epenthesis
Jan 12, 2008

I'M TAKIN' YOU PUNKS DOWN!

Anne Whateley posted:

The numbers there are a bit weird (not impossible, just unusual). In addition to being a college student, he must work just about 30 hours/week, which isn't really part-time. In a year he'd make $26k (before tax, not allowing any unpaid time off) but he's saved $15k.

If he's that hardcore about it, it's pretty weird he's just like "oh bummer, have it all for no reason."

He probably means 1.5K. Not chump change, but little enough that he can rationalize it as something Mom can seize even though he already pays her bills.

Wickerman
Feb 26, 2007

Boom, mothafucka!
Sounds like the kid might want to move out if he can pay bills like that and save.

Or at least get a bank account in his name.

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius

Markovnikov posted:

Yeah, christians had the same anti-usury laws. (This might be my history classes being bad, but:) Jews were the only ones who didn't have problems with money lending, and that's how they came to be (negatively) associated with money and greed and hated on. Also why many western banks came from Jewish families. There's a whole situation in the Poema del Mio Cid (Cid Campeador) about a couple of greedy money-lending Jews that get hosed by the Cid.

Christians and Jews had the same anti-usury laws. As I understand, both groups interpreted certain Old Testament passages to forbid charging interest to others of the same religion. So Jew-Jew and Christian-Christian money lending was a no go, but Jew-Christian money lending was okay in either direction.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

Markovnikov posted:

I know it's a derail, but it's kind of interesting how different societies handle money. I would love to hear more about muslim banks/economy in general when they have to circumvent any sort of interest.

The Ascent of Money covers a lot of these topics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsrtB5lp60s

For Islamic banking there are a few documentaries worth searching for on youtube. I just can't remember the name of the best one that I watched.

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006
I'm doing something good with money for once: I started contributing to a 401(k) today at 4% and Amazon matches up to 2% or 50% of an arbitrary value not to exceed 2%. I also set my contributions to increase by 1% each year, so I should be building a nice beginning retirement fund. I will be contributing roughly $77 each check, so accounting for some months with three paychecks I should be contributing somewhere between $3900 and $4300 per year, with a matching of 50% of that from Amazon. That's not a bad start, and my contributions will grow each year.

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008

Anne Whateley posted:

The numbers there are a bit weird (not impossible, just unusual). In addition to being a college student, he must work just about 30 hours/week, which isn't really part-time. In a year he'd make $26k (before tax, not allowing any unpaid time off) but he's saved $15k.

If he's that hardcore about it, it's pretty weird he's just like "oh bummer, have it all for no reason."

If he's working nightshift he's probably getting a bit extra over the standard minimum casual wage, and if he was working weekends, there's more again.

It could easily be $15k, and I'll bet the mother has a gambling problem.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Earlier contributions are better than late ones so, if you can swing it in your budget, I would not do the increasing thing and just would contribute now. (Your contributions should still go up each year since your salary will presumably go up.)

e:vvv Yeah good plan, I would do an HSA before unmatched 401k dollars as well.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Dec 4, 2014

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer

HonorableTB posted:

I'm doing something good with money for once: I started contributing to a 401(k) today at 4% and Amazon matches up to 2% or 50% of an arbitrary value not to exceed 2%. I also set my contributions to increase by 1% each year, so I should be building a nice beginning retirement fund. I will be contributing roughly $77 each check, so accounting for some months with three paychecks I should be contributing somewhere between $3900 and $4300 per year, with a matching of 50% of that from Amazon. That's not a bad start, and my contributions will grow each year.

Does Amazon offer a Roth option? Contributing to your max match on a regular 401k and putting the rest in a company Roth might be good as well (I'm sure someone will promptly tell me otherwise).

And of course, remember you are retiring for two here so adjust accordingly.

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006
Can you explain the difference between a 401(k) and a Roth IRA? I'm new to this kind of thing and I don't understand it.

devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

Elektronik
Supersonik
A 401k reduces your taxable income, but you have to pay taxes when you withdraw it during retirement.

A Roth IRA is filled with post-tax income, and there are no taxes on the gains made when you withdraw. However, you are limited to a maximum amount to each year you put in.

Max 401k to company match, max Roth, then personal IRA after that is the general best practice.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you

HonorableTB posted:

Can you explain the difference between a 401(k) and a Roth IRA? I'm new to this kind of thing and I don't understand it.

Here's a simplified, directionally correct answer.

401(k) is employer sponsored, and you can put pre-tax money into them. Because it's employer sponsored, you're limited to investing in whatever funds your employer's provider has available (usually not a problem, but sometimes they suck). Typically, an employer will match your contributions to a certain percentage, but there's usually a catch called a "vesting period", where the money isn't really yours forever until you've continued employment for another 3 years or something. For example, with my 401(k), all the money I put in is mine forever, but my 2014 employer match will not truly belong to me for another 3 years, in 2017.
Eventually, when you withdraw from your 401(k) on retirement, you will pay taxes on the money withdrawn (and the earnings associated) as if they were normal earnings.

Roth IRAs are individual accounts that are totally irrelevant to your employer. You contribute to them with post-tax earnings (take home pay) and you can invest them (almost) wherever and (almost) in whatever you want. Since you funded it with post-tax money, When you retire, your withdrawals are not taxed.

Company Roth 401(k)s are a different story too. Ask in the newbie finance thread. There are some rules of thumb on how you should prioritize your retirement savings across different accounts.

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius
Krispy is talking about a Roth 401(k).

401(k) vs. IRA: 401(k) is employer sponsored, IRA is personal with lower contribution limits.
Traditional vs. Roth: With traditional, you don't pay taxes on the money you put into the account, but you pay taxes on the money you take out of the account. With Roth, you pay taxes on the money you put into the account, but you don't pay taxes on the money you take out of the account.

Whether Traditional or Roth is better is complicated, but Roth is potentially a big win for a lot of people.

Crabby Abby
Apr 26, 2006

I'm the graph in the OP

HonorableTB posted:

I will be contributing roughly $77 each check, so accounting for some months with three paychecks I should be contributing somewhere between $3900 and $4300 per year, with a matching of 50% of that from Amazon.

I think your math is off somewhere. $77 * 26 biweekly pay checks = $2,002/year, before match. Did you mean $77/week?

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you
https://www.birchbox.com/guide/article/how-much-do-you-tip-during-the-holiday-season
You should tip EVERYONE!

I went to college with a girl who shared that on facebook. She also pointed out that you should be sure to tip your doctor, because they have the most important job: saving your life.

Her father is a big time surgeon with the biggest practice of its kind in a top 10 US city. Guy is clearing 7 or 8 figures annually, easy. He can probably buy his own wine.

melon cat
Jan 21, 2010

Nap Ghost

canyoneer posted:

https://www.birchbox.com/guide/article/how-much-do-you-tip-during-the-holiday-season
You should tip EVERYONE!

I went to college with a girl who shared that on facebook. She also pointed out that you should be sure to tip your doctor, because they have the most important job: saving your life.

Her father is a big time surgeon with the biggest practice of its kind in a top 10 US city. Guy is clearing 7 or 8 figures annually, easy. He can probably buy his own wine.
So I guess I'm not the only one who has noticed this bizarre "Tip everyone during Christmas" trend. Just today I was in a high-rise condo visiting a friend. There was a notice, adorned in Christmas-themed stationary, in the lobby stating (paraphrasing):

"Dear residents: We are setting up a holiday gratuity fund for our building maintenance staff, in recognition of their hard work. All donations to this fund can be sent to the central mailbox, and each will be sent with a greeting card in your name to all of our staff. Thank you, and have a wonderful holiday!"

So, on top of the $500/mo. the residents pay in condo fees, they're also being asked to pay the condo corporation's employees. It's absurd.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009
It's just an appreciation thing. I don't think you're obligated to do it. But we can afford it, and it's to people who are less fortunate. I'm not sure I would do it in your case because it's kind of ridiculous, they should give Christmas bonuses themselves. But for our housekeeper, they're barely English speaking immigrants who are running their own small 2 person company, doing all the cleaning themselves, so I give them an extra $200 every Christmas.

Alastor_the_Stylish
Jul 25, 2006

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

I live in a building with a similar maintenance staff holiday donation fund. My response is to go into the next condo board meeting and propose we give them all a 15% raise. Guess how it went over.

OneWhoKnows
Dec 6, 2006
I choo choo choooose you!

Alastor_the_Stylish posted:

I live in a building with a similar maintenance staff holiday donation fund. My response is to go into the next condo board meeting and propose we give them all a 15% raise. Guess how it went over.

They didn't get a raise and also stopped getting extra money come the holidays?

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potee
Jul 23, 2007

Or, you know.

Not fine.
I kick my concierge a few bills around the holidays. I'd rather he just get paid a decent wage the whole year, but until then I don't think giving the guy who signs for my packages and deals with my dry cleaning a hundred bucks is especially bad with money.

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