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veedubfreak posted:At this point is there any reason for someone to buy a Mac instead of a Windows pc other than being an Apple fanboy? I understand in the old days there were reasons, but now, a Mac is just a PC with OSX and a giant markup on parts. The interface/aesthetics, "I don't have to worry about viruses and toolbars and startup items getting installed whenever I use the internet", and things being simpler by way of having less options are some of the biggies. (How much of that is being used to it already and/or things that've long since been hugely improved in Windows vs. it's "better" on Macs is debatable, though Win8 certainly didn't help.) Their hardware QC and easy local warranty work are awesome. Some software people like the Unix-ness of it, and it's been the go-to platform for film people - don't know why but I presume the software. I see a lot of medical folks at work that stick with Apple and for them it's definitely not caring about spending the extra money to get something they know how to use and (feel?) they don't have to gently caress with maintenance on. Oh and SO SHINY. e: Agreed on it being laptops - every single Apple person I've seen has been on a laptop and/or Ipad, I forget their all in one crap even exists. teh_Broseph fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 21:29
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Twerk from Home posted:Actually, what I've seen is that the move to commodity hardware has brought down Mac prices significantly. OSX is nice, the battery life is great, and the lower-spec Airs are cheaper than Windows-based competitors. I snagged a 13" 2014 Macbook Air for $750 at Best Buy a couple months ago, and I couldn't find a comparable Windows ultraportable under $900 at that time. The rMBPs also compete in the premium laptop space, and you won't find a Windows laptop with an SSD and screen of that resolution until you get close in price. The laptops make way more sense than the desktops. Or "desktops", 27" imac in particular. They are pretty, thats about all I can ever say about them. Its fine if you want something pretty and dont need to do anything graphically demanding and dont mind paying for that. People surely pay a lot more for pretty stuff that do far less. But the moment you need something (space, gpu power, cost efficiency) it gets poo poo real fast
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Dec 3, 2014 21:31
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cat doter posted:That's always the story though, their architectures are different enough that each game benefits the cards differently. With nvidia they seem to be going after developers hard, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, it gives nvidia a better value proposition, but it can make you feel like you're losing out if you're on AMD. When those particular games have exclusive CUDA effects AND they run worse on AMD it can feel like rubbing salt in the wound. I'm saying the opposite dude, Far Cry 4 does not like nvidia cards. 
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Dec 3, 2014 21:31
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Seems like Macs are more for casual users who want less hassle and work (and are great exactly for that and the people who need to use them) and PCs are for gamers and enthusiasts, people who enjoy building, troubleshooting and other such things. IOW, neither is really better than the other, not generally. They are both great for two different subsets of people.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:33
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Don Lapre posted:the best build quality, etc.. Yeah, I don't know about that, their track record isn't perfect, and it'd be nice if that myth wasn't always perpetuated. Pitted wrist rests, bulging caps, leaking watercooling, cracks in casing and so on, they're just using the same poo poo as everyone else at the end of the day, but they definitely like to pack things in nicely. That's not to say their build quality is generally bad, it certainly is not, but to say "best" implies nothing else is ever built better, and that isn't always true. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 21:34
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HalloKitty posted:Yeah, I don't know about that, their track record isn't perfect, and it'd be nice if that myth wasn't always perpetuated. I dont really consider that build quality. Im talking more about the fact everything is pretty solid. Yes certainly issues will crop up with any manufacturer. But typically things are assembled and built very well, They are made out of milled aluminum or plastic as apposed to being welded together and poo poo. People try to compare a plastic walmart laptop to a macbook air for example and ask where the price difference is.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:37
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Is there a way to stop coil whine with an existing video card?
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Dec 3, 2014 21:41
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Tab8715 posted:Is there a way to stop coil whine with an existing video card? In the old days, we used to put a drop of hot glue on the offending part.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:42
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Tab8715 posted:Is there a way to stop coil whine with an existing video card? Not really anymore.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:43
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Tab8715 posted:Is there a way to stop coil whine with an existing video card? Depends on the card. Tinitus works pretty well. As does a full cover waterblock.
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Dec 3, 2014 21:50
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It's a brand new Zotac GT730.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:02
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Tab8715 posted:It's a brand new Zotac GT730. Use your onboard video and return it
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Dec 3, 2014 22:04
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Or exchange it for a GTX 750 or GTX 750 Ti.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:21
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veedubfreak posted:Tinitus works pretty well. You speak the truth 
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Dec 3, 2014 23:16
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Hace posted:I'm saying the opposite dude, Far Cry 4 does not like nvidia cards. Do the same benchmarks but with the NVidia graphic setting. I think you'll technically see an infinite improvement 
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Dec 4, 2014 01:16
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veedubfreak posted:At this point is there any reason for someone to buy a Mac instead of a Windows pc other than being an Apple fanboy? I understand in the old days there were reasons, but now, a Mac is just a PC with OSX and a giant markup on parts. Well, they're the best-built systems that run OSX. v  vThe workstation models are also more in line with workstation pricing than the desktops are with desktop pricing. And the Macbook Pros are great, if you like OSX. I don't think there's a single PC that matches up on every single spec and ALSO matches battery life.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:58
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I know nothing about coil whine, but saw this on some reviews of the 970 on Newegg. No idea if it's valid, but if it is, maybe it can help some people. Reviewer: Other Thoughts: In order to fix coil whine (which is the inductors switching on and off at the same rate as your psu is supplying power to them for a quick and dirty explanation) overclock and overvolt your card a few mhz till the whine goes away. You just need to change the rate at which your card requires power to eliminate the whine... ever get a buzzing from your monitor at a certain brightness? Same thing. Manufacturer Response: Dear Shinobi, Your explanation on the coil whine issue is superb. I'm glad you have an understanding with how the cards work. If you have an issue with your card that you would like to discuss please email me an place case number # N141202313 in the subject line. I'm here to help you and all others with these issues, as our customer loyalty department dedicated to bringing a resolution to all issues related to our products. _______________________________________________________________ Another response from ASUS: The coil whine noise is not specific to 900 series and can happen to any high-end GPU. Although it can be a concern to hear your fans spin and/or coil making noise at a higher level than expected, rest assured that your display card does not have a hardware defect. Moreover, if you have any questions or would like to confirm that your card is working as expected, please contact our support team and we will gladly assist you. Changing the voltage overclocking and overvolting your card a few MHz till the whine goes away, can be a way to quell the issue you face with the noise. If you wish to discuss it further please email and place case number N141202718 in the subject line. I'm here to help you and all others with these issues, as our customer loyalty department dedicated to bringing a resolution to all issues related to our products. Sincerely, Adam ASUS Customer Loyalty
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Dec 4, 2014 02:12
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So, is Asus saying that overclocking and overvolting are now covered under warranty if you have a card that makes noise? I have a 970 I'd send the full 1.312 volts to if I could get it replaced for free if anything goes wrong.
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Dec 4, 2014 02:52
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veedubfreak posted:At this point is there any reason for someone to buy a Mac instead of a Windows pc other than being an Apple fanboy? I understand in the old days there were reasons, but now, a Mac is just a PC with OSX and a giant markup on parts. I'd consider apple in the laptop space, since gpu's won't matter, and nobody else is making such high quality laptop chassis with such excellent screens, but for a desktop? Hell no. Never in a million years.
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Dec 4, 2014 03:56
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Unless you want a 5k display
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Dec 4, 2014 04:00
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We're really having the Apple debate in the GPU thread?veedubfreak posted:At this point is there any reason for someone to buy a Mac instead of a Windows pc other than being an Apple fanboy? I understand in the old days there were reasons, but now, a Mac is just a PC with OSX and a giant markup on parts.
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Dec 4, 2014 04:18
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veedubfreak posted:At this point is there any reason for someone to buy a Mac instead of a Windows pc other than being an Apple fanboy? I understand in the old days there were reasons, but now, a Mac is just a PC with OSX and a giant markup on parts. I've never owned an Apple computer of any type, but it does seem that they pair good hardware choices together, then create good software to back it up. For example, they were the first one to do Retina screens or whatever on laptops, but I'm pretty sure they prepared OS X scaling to back up that hardware. Now, all of these PC Laptop manufacturers are rushing to make laptops with huge resolutions, even higher than Retina, but Windows doesn't scale particularly well and a lot of big name softwares aren't scaling at all. I mean, I'm on a 27" 2560x1440 monitor and I think the resolution is too high and it takes too much GPU power to push it for gaming, and now PC manufacturers are pushing higher resolutions than that into 14" screens. I'm not certain that PC manufacturers are making good hardware choices when I start seeing things like this. It often seems they are playing catch-up and then try to turn that into a race, which leads to a lot of missteps. Overall, I think Apple does a lot of neat things, and then the PC market tends to follow. All-in-one PCs didn't show up until after the iMac with an LCD did, for example. And yes, all-in-ones are generally terrible, but it was really easy to sell them to old people. Ultrabooks didn't show up until after the Macbook, and every PC still had a DVD drive until Macbooks chucked theirs. I personally think the new(ish) Mac Pro has a really neat design and is probably engineered well. Of course, you're in a graphics card thread, which generally means you're a gamer like me, so Apples aren't really a good value proposition to you or me.
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Dec 4, 2014 04:27
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Hace posted:I'm saying the opposite dude, Far Cry 4 does not like nvidia cards. I wasn't talking about far cry 4 specifically, just generally. Lords of the Fallen is a good example of a recentish game that runs worse on AMD and has CUDA specific stuff. Plus the non CUDA nvidia effects generally perform pretty badly on AMD hardware.
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Dec 4, 2014 07:35
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That's some cool stuff about coil whine, and I totally support their positive response to it. But I can't help but wonder from a company's standpoint if its a great idea to support overclocking to eliminate coil whine. On the other hand its more or less completely expected to overclock a GPU these days, with the warranty voiding language being all but a formality of times past. Still, surprising. (and on a side note, seems like putting some glue on the coils would prevent this from the factory but thats me talking from my rear end) Star War Sex Parrot posted:We're really having the Apple debate in the GPU thread? My fault, it did just start out as a GPU deal but I kind of let my fingers keep typing about the terrible cost efficiency for the question specifically ...
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Dec 4, 2014 18:05
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What causes coil whine and how can overclocking help it? It seems like the frequency domains are so many orders of magnitude apart that there can't be any relation at all.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:28
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This is interesting. Out of nowhere, Nvidia basically built their own "next-gen" API on top of OpenGL with the giant extension NV_command_list. http://www.slideshare.net/tlorach/opengl-nvidia-commandlistapproaching-zerodriveroverhead It's not perfect as being built on legacy OpenGL means that it still suffers from nonexistent multithreading support when it comes to actually submitting commands or updating buffers, but it's probably as good as a legacy API is going to get.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:41
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craig588 posted:So, is Asus saying that overclocking and overvolting are now covered under warranty if you have a card that makes noise? I have a 970 I'd send the full 1.312 volts to if I could get it replaced for free if anything goes wrong. The nice thing about hardware these days is that it's drat near impossible to kill it by overclocking. There are so many failsafes built in now that if you push it too far, it will just crash the driver long before ever damaging the card.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:48
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evensevenone posted:What causes coil whine and how can overclocking help it? It seems like the frequency domains are so many orders of magnitude apart that there can't be any relation at all. This is me regurgitating here but its electromagnetic coils physically vibrating at their resonant frequency. When the current matches the resonant frequency (sorry vague here) it will vibrate. Then the magnetic field its creating is now also variable since its already vibrating, causing a feedback loop which makes the vibration far greater. That's when the humming happens. Like I said I'm just regurgitating and there might be obvious flaws there but thats the gist of it. Now, why the coils have a resonant frequency anywhere near what the electrical oscillation should cause is beyond me. Couldn't they just add another loop of coil to avoid this? Especially when changing a relatively small % of demand on the coil moves it out of the resonating frequency zone? I dont know. I guess the current is so hugely variable that hitting that zone might be unavoidable to start with, but the fact you can prevent it from such a small change makes me wonder.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:52
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evensevenone posted:What causes coil whine and how can overclocking help it? It seems like the frequency domains are so many orders of magnitude apart that there can't be any relation at all. Coil whine is caused by coils of wire (e.g. inductors) vibrating against themselves or their casings. If the vibration is caused by a resonating frequency in the environment, adjusting the frequencies involved can end the resonance effect pretty effectively, be that changing clocks to adjust the environmental frequency (including using spread spectrum clocking) or changing the power load (because inductors are heavily used in the voltage regulators that supply power). Because of the nature of resonance, it doesn't take much change to break the effect. As for how frequencies can interfere over orders of magnitude, frequencies that are very close but not exact can create periodic behavior at lower frequency than the source signals.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:18
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Maybe this is the appropriate thread for this. I tried out Steam in home streaming yesterday and was pretty pleased overall, however I was experiencing noticeable input lag regardless of game or settings. To a point - the input lag does get worse if I try to stream 1440p to the 1080p tv (which I only know because thats what it was trying to do first), but there is a minimum level of lag at all lower settings. I am using a kind of cheap laptop with an i5-3317U processor, which has HD4000 graphics with Quick Sync video, using HDMI to the TV. It was plugged in via ethernet on the same router as the source computer. I was used a wired xbox 360 controller. Part of me would have thought input lag would simply be unavoidable but I'm seeing people claim single millisecond response times for input and video. Could I just be bottlenecked by the igpu's capacity to decode here?
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Dec 4, 2014 19:42
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Network equipment and setup also factors into the problem as well. If both connections are wireless or even one is then that could really add up.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:56
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Make sure the TV has 'game mode' enabled. This turns off all/most post processing features to reduce lag to a minimum. HD4000 graphics should be good enough for hardware encoding. Also make sure you're using ethernet from your PC to router and ideally ethernet from your router to the laptop. Wireless, even at 5GHz, I find just doesn't cut it. My personal experience with all wired connections and a cheap as poo poo receiver plugged into a TV is almost buttery smooth with no noticeable lag.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:56
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Yeah for the purposes of testing it I have everything wired via ethernet to a single router. I'd greatly prefer wireless but I wanted to prevent lag sources for the time being. Its good to hear the HD4000 should handle it but now this huge list of possible things pitfalls is growing in my head. I'll try the game mode thing though, thanks! Maybe steamos will work better
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Dec 4, 2014 20:01
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1gnoirents posted:Yeah for the purposes of testing it I have everything wired via ethernet to a single router. I'd greatly prefer wireless but I wanted to prevent lag sources for the time being. Its good to hear the HD4000 should handle it but now this huge list of possible things pitfalls is growing in my head. I'll try the game mode thing though, thanks! I used it at my friend's and he was streaming Geometry Wars 3 with absolutely no lag wirelessly from all the way across his apartment to a lovely 5-6 year old laptop. He does have a brand new 802.11ac router, so I'm sure that helps. Steam has tools for diagnosing problems with in-home streaming: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3629-RIAV-1617#advancedtroubleshooting
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Dec 4, 2014 20:13
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Papercut posted:I used it at my friend's and he was streaming Geometry Wars 3 with absolutely no lag wirelessly from all the way across his apartment to a lovely 5-6 year old laptop. He does have a brand new 802.11ac router, so I'm sure that helps. Was there anything blocking the signal? What I found was that if the line of sight between the router and receiver was clear then it ran nearly well as wired? But stick just one object in the way and although the lag isn't as bad, you do begin to get enough bad packets to make the game almost unplayable (video freezing for a second or two, etc).
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Dec 4, 2014 20:16
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Yeah, router is in a fully-enclosed room with the door on the opposite side compared to where his TV is, so at least one full wall between. I've tried it with my Dell Venue 8 Pro and old a/b/g router, and even with the PC wired and the tablet sitting right next to the router, I got poo poo performance. 
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Dec 4, 2014 20:23
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I recently built a new computer and bought a heatsink that takes up a ton of space. I can't put my graphics card into the x16 slot so I put it in x8. Will this hamstring my gpus performance? I have a gtx970.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:30
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Papercut posted:Yeah, router is in a fully-enclosed room with the door on the opposite side compared to where his TV is, so at least one full wall between. I've tried it with my Dell Venue 8 Pro and old a/b/g router, and even with the PC wired and the tablet sitting right next to the router, I got poo poo performance. Well I'm assuming an old router doesn't have a 5GHz wireless mode. 2.4GHz will not cut it whatsoever
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Dec 4, 2014 20:35
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DarthBlingBling posted:Well I'm assuming an old router doesn't have a 5GHz wireless mode. 2.4GHz will not cut it whatsoever Isn't 2.4GHZ actually less affected by walls and other obstacles than 5GHZ? Sure I heard that somewhere
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Dec 4, 2014 20:37
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Yeah it has better range and can pass through more objects, that's why it's more common place. But has higher latency or something.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:39
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