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They should have brought Raditz back instead.
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Dec 5, 2014 09:37
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I just realized, Frieza got chumped hard by Trunks but outside of that he's never been treated as anything less than a big deal by anything Toriyama did, right? It's all the Toei parts where he gets poo poo on? E: Even in Battle of Gods, Beerus does a double-take when he's told someone actually killed Frieza. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 09:40
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I think the Trunks chumping Freeza thing was to establish that the Androids were a HUGE threat as someone who could defeat Freeza could not defeat the Androids.
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Dec 5, 2014 09:53
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Covok posted:I think the Trunks chumping Freeza thing was to establish that the Androids were a HUGE threat as someone who could defeat Freeza could not defeat the Androids. Yeah, everyone there not named Trunks was essentially making GBS threads themselves at the thought of Frieza right on their front door, especially with Goku not around at the time. Which makes me think Toriyama might not have him get beaten down by everyone from Yamcha to Krillin in the new movie. Besides, even if Frieza was only as strong as he used to be that would still make him someone who could blow up Earth that has a serious vendetta against pretty much a quarter of the main cast. Speaking of Trunks though, I hope they have him interact with Frieza a little bit, seems like something great could come out of that.
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Dec 5, 2014 09:59
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Some Numbers posted:In case anyone's wondering, Freeza's line in that trailer is "Allow me to show you an even greater form!" freeza absorbed goku's god like powers
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Dec 5, 2014 10:00
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Covok posted:I think the Trunks chumping Freeza thing was to establish that the Androids were a HUGE threat as someone who could defeat Freeza could not defeat the Androids. That and to establish Trunks' character as a guy who didn't sit around waiting for the other guy to power up. Too bad Vegeta didn't follow his example. 
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Dec 5, 2014 10:29
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Also, I guess it should be said cyborg Freeza was not at 100% power judging by his appearance and possibly weakened as a result of his injuries.
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Dec 5, 2014 10:36
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Freeza rules. Like I said, I hope they make him a serious threat again. And why not? The heroes can get stronger, who's to say that the villains can't get stronger? Yeah, yeah, "but Freeza doesn't seem like the type to train". Says who? I can easily imagine Freeza saying to himself "If those monkeys can sense ki, then so can I!", and busting his rear end until he gets better ki control. Then he starts training in space for a couple of years. He'd at least surpass any of the androids and Cell's first two forms, just from that alone. Couple all of this with whatever mystical rear end-pulling bullshit that Toriyama can come up with, and BAM, Freeza's now clowning Mr. Boo, Gohan, Vegeta, Goku and Gotenks like it ain't no thing. Oh, and edited to add: I don't see Tenshinhan, Kuririn, or Yamcha beating Freeza at any time. There's no proof that any of them ever surpassed his first form, or even Captain Ginyu. Maybe Tenshinhan did...by the Boo Saga. And maybe then he was only in the low millions. Seriously, those guys are just Earthlings, not Saiyans or Super Saiyans. They didn't train in 100x gravity or the Room of Spirit and Time. Blue Star fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 10:40
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I always found it funny that the big threat was cyborgs, but Freeza was also a cyborg at that point and this was never even mentioned. Which means tech an old man cobbled together in a cave is somehow more advanced than what a Galaxy spanning empire controlled by the most powerful non-God in the Universe has at their disposal.
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Dec 5, 2014 10:43
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Esroc posted:I always found it funny that the big threat was cyborgs, but Freeza was also a cyborg at that point and this was never even mentioned. Which means tech an old man cobbled together in a cave is somehow more advanced than what a Galaxy spanning empire controlled by the most powerful non-God in the Universe has at their disposal. I think Frieza came back as a cyborg for this exact reason, though.
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Dec 5, 2014 10:46
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think Frieza came back as a cyborg for this exact reason, though. Yeah, but it still doesn't make any goddamn sense.
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Dec 5, 2014 10:47
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Guys this is Dragonball Z of course it doesn't make any sense
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Dec 5, 2014 10:49
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To be fair, it's not preexisting tech level so much as it was innovation and the fact Earth knew something they didn't. Earthlings know alot about ki, potentially more than any other race established in the comic. The galaxy spanning super empire knows about power levels, but doesn't really get ki. They can use ki in a very limited way and they can measure it with tech, but they don't really get it. That's why Ginyu doesn't get Goku's body at all when he tries to use it. Dr.Gero has a better body of knowledge to work off. Then, he lucks out and discovers the secret to making infinite ki (that was the andriod's thing, right?) as well as a way to drain ki. So, he can make a much more powerful cyborg than the empire since ki is such a big deal.
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Dec 5, 2014 10:51
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Freiza's the go-to villain because he's the source of everything that happens in the whole series. He recruited the Saiyans as soldiers (hence giving them spacefaring tech) and then blew up their planet, ensuring that no one could, or would, go out to check on the planet that Kakarotto had been sent to until Raditz did years and years later, giving Goku time to grow up and form the moral connections and the 'networking contacts' that allowed him access to training methods that let him beat Vegeta and Freiza. Goku being on Earth results in Gero hating him and making Cell, and while Freiza has no connection to Buu it was his actions that started Goku and co onto the path of the godlike amounts of power and tricks that would be needed to beat something like that. Freiza's actions created the whole series. Then again, he needed to act in tandem with numerous other characters: I once read this series that theorized what would happen without a variety of characters, and they all ended up as "Buu wakes up eventually and kills everyone". But Freiza is always the source of the first turns of the gears.
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Dec 5, 2014 11:16
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Blue Star posted:I don't see Tenshinhan, Kuririn, or Yamcha beating Freeza at any time. There's no proof that any of them ever surpassed his first form, or even Captain Ginyu. Maybe Tenshinhan did...by the Boo Saga. And maybe then he was only in the low millions. Seriously, those guys are just Earthlings, not Saiyans or Super Saiyans. They didn't train in 100x gravity or the Room of Spirit and Time. Well you're wrong and actually the canon ending to DBZ is that the earthlings take Frieza's place as overlords of the universe. Even if 99% of the population, including King President Dog, is unaware. Emperor Kuililililin reigns supreme.  Even if they didn't use the Room of Spirit and Time or 100x gravity, Yamcha is the only fighter who really stops training in the many, many years after Frieza. I'd like to think if they fought again the earthlings would hold their own.
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Dec 5, 2014 11:17
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Well, the reason given as to why humans become top dogs in the universe in that MMO is because sayians mated with humans so, 10,000 years later, all humans have a little sayian in them and can achieve the level of super sayian.
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Dec 5, 2014 11:19
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Esroc posted:Which means tech an old man cobbled together in a cave is somehow more advanced than what a Galaxy spanning empire controlled by the most powerful non-God in the Universe has at their disposal. 
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Dec 5, 2014 11:39
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Esroc posted:I always found it funny that the big threat was cyborgs, but Freeza was also a cyborg at that point and this was never even mentioned. Which means tech an old man cobbled together in a cave is somehow more advanced than what a Galaxy spanning empire controlled by the most powerful non-God in the Universe has at their disposal. Well, the androids were enhanced humanoids, while Freeza was a scavanged broken pile of bodyparts left over after Namek exploded. None of the guys present on Earth ever felt Freeza at any significant power-level, so it might be fair to assume he was incredibly weaker than when he was full form when he arrived on Earth. That King Cold was stronger than a broken, on life-support, Freeza makes sort of sense then. Also why Trunks could just chump it in one plunge. The idea for destroying Earth first was to make Goku suffer so they could laugh in his face, not because they actually thought they could beat him in a fair fight.
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Dec 5, 2014 11:39
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I was just typing out something like that. Dr Gero made them in a cave, with a box a scraps. 
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Dec 5, 2014 11:45
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Is it really that impress that gero built the androids? Or maybe technology among the spacefaring races in dragon ball is really lovely because people who can destroy planets are disturbingly common. A dude as strong as frieza appears like every one thousand years if the legend of the super saiyan is actually true. And there's probably dozens of dudes in vegeta/cui's class every generation.
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Dec 5, 2014 12:23
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Mordaedil posted:Well, the androids were enhanced humanoids, while Freeza was a scavanged broken pile of bodyparts left over after Namek exploded. None of the guys present on Earth ever felt Freeza at any significant power-level, so it might be fair to assume he was incredibly weaker than when he was full form when he arrived on Earth. That King Cold was stronger than a broken, on life-support, Freeza makes sort of sense then. Also why Trunks could just chump it in one plunge. The idea for destroying Earth first was to make Goku suffer so they could laugh in his face, not because they actually thought they could beat him in a fair fight. They said Mecha Freiza was actually way stronger than he was on Namek. That always seemed really odd to me, considering Goku apparently beat him and King Cold easily, but eh.
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Dec 5, 2014 15:28
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Mordaedil posted:Well, the androids were enhanced humanoids, while Freeza was a scavanged broken pile of bodyparts left over after Namek exploded. None of the guys present on Earth ever felt Freeza at any significant power-level, so it might be fair to assume he was incredibly weaker than when he was full form when he arrived on Earth. That King Cold was stronger than a broken, on life-support, Freeza makes sort of sense then. Also why Trunks could just chump it in one plunge. The idea for destroying Earth first was to make Goku suffer so they could laugh in his face, not because they actually thought they could beat him in a fair fight. Gohan actually did know his 100% strength, since he was on Namek at the time. Yamcha freaked out (obviously) about how powerful Freeza felt, but Gohan noted that it was not his full power. Both Cold and Freeza claimed that the latter would be more powerful after all the mechanical addons, so he apparently fought Trunks powered down.
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Dec 5, 2014 15:37
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Cornwind Evil posted:I once read this series that theorized what would happen without a variety of characters, and they all ended up as "Buu wakes up eventually and kills everyone". This actually sounds kind of interesting, ending aside, do you have a link?
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Dec 5, 2014 15:44
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I am just wondering timeline wise when does this actually happen. Krillin is bald again, we don't know exactly how old Gohan is, and we haven't seen Trunks or Goten, or Pan yet. From the anime and manga ending of Z, we know that the ten year gap between the last fight with Buu and Goku meeting Uub is relatively peaceful.
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Dec 5, 2014 16:01
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Momomo posted:They said Mecha Freiza was actually way stronger than he was on Namek. That always seemed really odd to me, considering Goku apparently beat him and King Cold easily, but eh. Goku had a lot of time between fighting Freeza on Namek and the fight he would have had on earth, so it stands to reason he'd be a bit more used to the transformation and it would drain him considerably less. Its also important to remember that Goku was shitkicked and completely done when he first underwent the transformation on namek, so its unlikely that he was fighting at the top of his game, which makes his clowning of freeza that much more embarrassing. Freeza wasn't at his peak either, but Goku could barely loving stand once the Genki Dama failed.
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Dec 5, 2014 16:10
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All of this and no one mentions that Freeza apparently has minions again. The gently caress does he think he's going to do with them? Even Yamcha could wipe out those idiots.
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Dec 5, 2014 16:22
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:All of this and no one mentions that Freeza apparently has minions again. Even Yajirobe is stronger than the average Freeza Soldier. Hell at this point Puar or Oolong could tank them probably.
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Dec 5, 2014 17:03
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:All of this and no one mentions that Freeza apparently has minions again. Well, when five pure-hearted minions gather and pose, they transfer their energies into a pure-hearted frost demon. This allows them to achieve a new level...their truly, for realsies this time final form!
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Dec 5, 2014 18:30
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He joins the Guardians of the Galaxy and everyone makes fun of him of how quaint and outdated his suit is compared to alien tech.
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Dec 5, 2014 18:44
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I'd like to see "What If" of a good or heroic Doctor Gero who uses his creations to protect earth. Like, Mecha-Frieza and King Cold arrive and whilst Yamcha and Vegeta and everyone else piss their pants since GOku isn't there, the doctor sends Android 17 and 18 to defeat them and save the world.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:14
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If there is one tiny of clip of that preview that musters a glimmer of hope in my heart, it is the brief glimpse of Roshi firing a kamehameha.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:41
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Roshi kills Freeza the first time they bring him back. Then Yamcha does it. Then Yajirobe. The movie takes place over the span of decades.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:43
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Mordaedil posted:If there is one tiny of clip of that preview that musters a glimmer of hope in my heart, it is the brief glimpse of Roshi firing a kamehameha. Exactly. When was the last time we saw Roshi in a fight? The Broly DBZ movie?
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Dec 5, 2014 20:56
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Webbeh posted:Exactly. When was the last time we saw Roshi in a fight? The Broly DBZ movie? The last time he seriously fought was Movie 2. In Movie 8 he just made faces. RZApublican posted:This actually sounds kind of interesting, ending aside, do you have a link? Unfortunately, this was years and years ago and it's long vanished into the depths of the internet. I remember one setup had Goku actually replacing Kami and when Raditz showed up he went "Huh, god of a planet huh? That's actually pretty sweet." and he left Freiza to run the world with Goku. Then Buu eventually woke up and killed everyone.
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Dec 6, 2014 00:26
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I like how you guys are trying to figure out how the new DBZ movie is going to go down using logic derived from the show when you know full well it isn't going to go down like that
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Dec 6, 2014 00:30
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Spoiler alert: Goku's gonna beat Freeza, unless Vegeta does it.
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Dec 6, 2014 00:33
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It's really not that surprising that the androids ended up being stronger than cyborg Frieza; dude was missing an enormous chunk of his head and his entire lower body after Goku got done with him. Just not a huge amount to work with there. Also, it's interesting that Gohan appears to be using SSJ in combat again. Guess he's lost enough power being a MODEL FATHER that the transformation is actually useful again. There's a good lad.
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Dec 6, 2014 00:36
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Hobo Siege posted:It's really not that surprising that the androids ended up being stronger than cyborg Frieza; dude was missing an enormous chunk of his head and his entire lower body after Goku got done with him. Just not a huge amount to work with there. Interesting that Gohan appears to be using SSJ in combat again. Guess he's lost enough power being a MODEL FATHER that the transformation is actually useful again. It may be another mistake. The last film had Gohan in SSJ before fans complained and got it changed back so welp.
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Dec 6, 2014 00:37
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Any idea why Goku has a new symbol on his shirt?
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Dec 6, 2014 00:41
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Covok posted:Any idea why Goku has a new symbol on his shirt? Training under Weiss. New Master, New Symbol. Same as it always was. EDIT: Thanks phone posting. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 00:43
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