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Is the reason canon is lagging still because they want to recoup the cost of their own sensor tech investment? That seems to be the case from my brief attempts at googling. If so, surly there comes a point where the competition is so far in front that they just need to write that off...
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Dec 8, 2014 09:46
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I'm not sure about that strategy of theirs - what's the point of trying to recoup what's basically a sunk cost while letting your competitors run circles around you, not only costing immediate sales but associating the brand with lovely outdated tech?
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Dec 8, 2014 10:54
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They might simply be out of options, or are reasoning (correctly) that customers don't know/care enough. Mirrorless is going to eat their DSLR lunch regardless, especially now that high-end options are becoming available.
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Dec 8, 2014 11:05
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Meanwhile I've just received my EF-FE adapter. But yeah, the case appears to be Canon having wanted their own fab instead of letting a third party do it. Now it's apparently too expensive to upgrade it.
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Dec 8, 2014 12:21
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I wanted to get back into the DSLR game because I am just sick of point and shoot, and I am leaning towards cannon because, well, I dunno. I really know nothing of the various consumer models, and I have a borrowed 30d to re-learn all my old specifics. Am I being stupid to want a used 60d body for long lasting use or are there better options for the guy that is just shooting family and friends? I am going to get a couple good lenses and I am not looking to be a photography sperg. I owned a Sony waaaay back in the day, but this latest chat about mirrorless has me looking at them again, but I do hate the big, empty body look. Where am I being dumb, and how do I fix it?
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Dec 8, 2014 14:32
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Roundboy posted:I wanted to get back into the DSLR game because I am just sick of point and shoot, and I am leaning towards cannon because, well, I dunno. If you're just shooting your friends and family, maybe you can consider the Panasonic LX100 instead. It's a fixed zoom, but its a pretty good one. Otherwise just get any of the m4/3 bodies and lenses in your budget. I wouldn't really recommend getting a Canon these days unless you really want one or have lenses for it already. alkanphel fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 14:51
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The Canon Thread: Don't Buy Canon
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Dec 8, 2014 16:27
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I'm getting rid of my nex 5n and going back to a 50D. 
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Dec 8, 2014 17:18
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The canon thread, sponsored by the micro four thirds mafia
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Dec 8, 2014 17:24
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The 60D is a nice camera and plenty tough (don't let the plastic body turn you off). The sensor is going to show it's age a bit with high ISO noise and dynamic range compared to current offerings, but if you can handle using a camera that people really liked a year or two ago, and you have a good price, then go for it. There are certainly a lot of other options out there both for used or new Canon and from other manufacturers. If there are must-have features (e.g. built in wifi/gps, touch screen, good video controls, great AF, etc) then you might be better off with something else.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:12
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dpreview is confusing me. 60D is what it is, a T4i = 650D = X6i , and 700D = T5i = X7i ?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:59
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Roundboy posted:dpreview is confusing me. 60D is what it is, a T4i = 650D = X6i , and 700D = T5i = X7i ? Canon has different cute names for rebels in different markets (rebel/kiss/XXXD) - The XX models were like this for film also back in the day (Elan 7 vs EOS 30)
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Dec 8, 2014 22:11
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gotcha. so the T5i is poo poo, and a t3i, being old, is still a kick rear end camera in its own right. being a 600d, which is kind of equiv to a 60D. Im really looking at a T3i /w lens kit to "buy a nice camera, and learn poo poo" for the next few years
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Dec 8, 2014 22:33
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evil_bunnY posted:Mirrorless is going to eat their DSLR lunch regardless, especially now that high-end options are becoming available. Just curious, what makes you say this? I am still new to all this so I'm not really up on the new technology. I understand what mirrorless is, but is that style of camera going to be the new standard?
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Dec 8, 2014 22:38
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Roundboy posted:gotcha. so the T5i is poo poo, and a t3i, being old, is still a kick rear end camera in its own right. being a 600d, which is kind of equiv to a 60D. The T5i isn't poo poo, it's just not an upgrade over the T4i (Canon had a problem with the grip plastic discoloring on the T4i , so they rushed out a new model very quickly without upgrading it at all) - Everyone makes fun of it because it's got a new model number on the same camera. The T5 (no i) is the one that's hacked up poo poo. The T5i over the T3i gets you touch screen , slightly (barely) faster live view AF, video tracking AF in live view that will make you lol, and slightly higher frame rate & top end ISO setting.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:39
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Used 60D prices have fallen through the floor since the rebels have gotten most of its spec. But I would recommend getting one as a first dslr over any rebel because its super cheap now, better ergos and you get to learn using a top LCD screen and second control dial from the start.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:00
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triplexpac posted:Just curious, what makes you say this? I am still new to all this so I'm not really up on the new technology. All major mirrorless offerings have drawbacks but they're constantly and significantly improving, unlike their mirrored friends.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:17
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Are the lines described in the OP still valid? Thread is a year and a half old, and I have no idea how fast equipment is released as a general rule. I'm considering a camera purchase and will be moving to Canon. Specifically of interest to me is an entry level full frame body, and I'm wondering if the 6d is still the best Canon option.
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Dec 9, 2014 01:03
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CrushedWill posted:Are the lines described in the OP still valid? Thread is a year and a half old, and I have no idea how fast equipment is released as a general rule. 6D is best option if you are on a budget and want full frame. If rough English doesn't bother you, this guy does some not so technical comparisons of the 6d, 5dmk3, and 7dmk2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJb5Cjdw3KA
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Dec 9, 2014 02:16
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iSheep posted:6D is best option if you are on a budget and want full frame. 
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Dec 9, 2014 02:24
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iSheep posted:6D is best option if you are on a budget and want full frame. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. Only things steering me away from a 6d at this point are the AF points and body construction. Given this is my first full frame, I'm thinking the 6d is prob a better choice with a body upgrade later, but I need to check refurb prices on both to see what the price diff is now. Last time I checked it was approx $800.
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Dec 9, 2014 07:21
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CrushedWill posted:Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. Only things steering me away from a 6d at this point are the AF points and body construction. Given this is my first full frame, I'm thinking the 6d is prob a better choice with a body upgrade later, but I need to check refurb prices on both to see what the price diff is now. Last time I checked it was approx $800. Don't worry about the construction. The 6d is extremely solid. I can't tell the difference between it and my 7d or 5d. Plus the wifi feature (which is the reason the top panel is polycarbonate) is incredibly useful.
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Dec 9, 2014 09:16
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I'm too invested in Canon glass to switch, and honestly the 5d mark 3 is still a fantastic camera for most of what I do. The d800 is better, yes I know, I've heard it a million times, but not owning one isn't crippling. Hopefully someday Canon catches up, it would be nice, but gear lust is pointless. There will always be something better.
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Dec 9, 2014 10:22
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Get an A7R if you want to switch. --ninja: Actually don't. Adapters only do CDAF.
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Dec 9, 2014 13:01
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somnambulist posted:owning one isn't crippling. New thread subtitle right here!
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Dec 9, 2014 13:26
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CrushedWill posted:Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. Only things steering me away from a 6d at this point are the AF points and body construction. Given this is my first full frame, I'm thinking the 6d is prob a better choice with a body upgrade later, but I need to check refurb prices on both to see what the price diff is now. Last time I checked it was approx $800. Lots of AF points aren't really critical unless you're shooting wildlife or sports (and even then you can still do okay, with a lower keeper rate). And the body construction doesn't matter at all. I've taken a 60D up and down mountains in the winter and slammed it into rocks and poo poo, it's still truckin'.
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Dec 9, 2014 14:58
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as a person who owns zero lenses, and has never experienced the 'quirks' of a lens needing small focus adjustments... will i really be hampered by the lack of the micro AF adjustments in 60D or will I never have even noticed if i wasnt reading in depth reviews ? I want to understand its limitations, but the video offerings are leaning me towards a general use camera and video taker for the kids. The offering in the used body market seems priced well.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:40
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Roundboy posted:as a person who owns zero lenses, and has never experienced the 'quirks' of a lens needing small focus adjustments... will i really be hampered by the lack of the micro AF adjustments in 60D or will I never have even noticed if i wasnt reading in depth reviews ? It really depends on you. If you're going to look at pictures blown up to 100% and examine for critical focus (did it hit the eyelashes vs the bridge of the nose with the eye in DOF) it will drive you nuts. If you're just going to look at the whole picture and be happy the face is in focus, you'll be fine. Anything grossly out of whack (I focused on the face and instead it focused 2 feet behind the person) is something that should be adjusted by the MFGR anyway, not done with microadjustment.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:06
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I've been pretty impressed by the jump in dynamic range and image detail going from an old XSi to a 5Dmkii, but even with an L lens and image post processing the 5D is leaving me with the impression that I could be getting better image quality, just based on what I see on Flickr and various blogs. (Not all of this is down to the camera, of course, and I would say that I am happy with the photos I've been getting) Canon seems to be the most popular dslr brand (again going by Flickr). I'm at a point where I'm going to start sinking a decent amount of money into the canon lens world pretty soon, but I'm not too invested yet that I couldn't sell all my canon gear and pivot to another brand. Is it possible that I could get set up with e.g. a Sony kit for about the cost of a 5Dmkii body plus another thousand or so and have the sensor be truly better in terms of image quality than what I've got right now? I mostly do wildlife and nature subjects. I'd also need to go with a brand that has excellent options in the 500mm+ telephoto range.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:14
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SMERSH Mouth posted:I'd also need to go with a brand that has excellent options in the 500mm+ telephoto range. I don't think you have many options there. Sony does make a 500/4 for the A mount, but it's 3-4k more than the CaNikon 500/4's, and that's as long as you get unless you go to some goofy mirror lens. Nobody else goes that long in an autofocus lens. Edit: Au contraire Timothy - you could also buy one of Sigmas DSLRs since they make their supertelephotos in their own mount.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:27
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Thanks for the info. Upthread, someone made a comment that called out Sony and Nikon specifically as manufacturers with better sensor technology than canon. Is that conventional wisdom these days? Does the disparity in quality matter especially in full-frame bodies? Do Nikon sensors excel significantly above canon equivalents in areas besides high ISO performance?
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Dec 9, 2014 18:03
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SMERSH Mouth posted:Thanks for the info. I might be wrong but I thought high-ISO noise is no longer an issue for Canon relative to other manufacturers. Where they lag a bit is the dynamic range at low ISO.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:10
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BetterLekNextTime posted:I might be wrong but I thought high-ISO noise is no longer an issue for Canon relative to other manufacturers. Where they lag a bit is the dynamic range at low ISO. Correct - Canon FF has really good high ISO performance (And slightly better high ISO DR than the sony equivalent sensors, although only like 1/3 stop) - Sony's sensors have much more shadow DR (like 2 stops worth) than Canon's at base ISO though, due to higher noise in lifted shadow areas on Canon's sensors. Whether this matters to you depends on what your shooting & PP style is. If you like to shoot at ISO 100 and pull oodles of detail out of the shadows without doing multiple exposures, you'd be happier with a sony sensor. If you're shooting long lens wildlife at ISO 1600 all the time, it won't make a lick of difference to you.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:18
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SMERSH Mouth posted:Thanks for the info. Meh. Dynamic range.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:33
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I'm just as big a Canon hater as anyone but this is getting crazy. I was going to write a long effortpost defending Canon, but it boils down to this: Canon is used by many (most?) pros sports and wedding pros because of lenses, fast AF, CPS, and build quality. Nikon has released 7 non-top tier FF bodies since the 5D3 was announced, and like 4 of them have had recalls or manufacturing issues. I think only 3 of them are made of metal, and only one has the same frame rate as the mk3. Canon has lenses Nikon doesn't have, etc etc Image quality is more complicated, and while the Nikon's have that insane game changing DR, and the D800 has insane 36mp, Canons are not inferior when it comes to per pixel sharpness, color, and noise at high iso. So I guess it depends what your needs are. I would kill to have that DR in a Canon body though. I still believe that the 5D3 is the best all-round DSLR available today, the new D750 is close, but there are compromises there too as well as the black banding issue making the blog rounds. ah gently caress I wrote an efforpost anyways.
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Dec 9, 2014 19:46
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Hopefully this continues, makes it unpopular and then drives down prices. Hey a guy can dream.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:08
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The 5D3 is terrible, someone give me theirs and buy a Nikon you'll be much happier I swear.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:34
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Bob Mundon posted:Hopefully this continues, makes it unpopular and then drives down prices. Hey a guy can dream. Nikon already has too many full frame bodies on the market and prices for something like a new D610 are already ridiculously low.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:37
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Huh. This is all very interesting. I had read an article on some camera site, the main point of which being that canon vs Nikon was effectively a toss-up, that image quality and lens selection were at parity between the two, etc. It was a few years old, so I guess either camera technology moves fast or this author was misinformed (probably both). Either way, I suppose I'll stay with canon. The number of people I know with big lens collections whom I can swap and borrow among kind of seals it for me. Too bad that Sony doesn't have offer a range of serious telephotos, I really could be making hay with a focus-highlighting viewfinder. And sorry if this is dragging the thread off topic, I think there's a general equipment thread where this discussion would be more appropriate.
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Dec 9, 2014 23:12
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Nah it's cool, and tbh although nikon kinda has the edge right now it's not something that'll hinder anyone to a real degree in practice (speaking as a nikon user). If you have pals willing to loan you cool EF glass that already more than makes up for it.
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Dec 9, 2014 23:24
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