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leica posted:Then her mom bought a Caravan, drove it for over ten years without any issues, then gave it to us and we drove it for a couple more years and the only thing that ever went wrong with it was a speed sensor on the transmission which I fixed for $50. It was a great roadtrip/hauling car that had more utility than an SUV and I'd own another one in a heartbeat. I need to ask my dad how many transmissions his old Xerox work Caravans went through. It was a lot.
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Dec 6, 2014 03:48
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Yeah the A604 is temperamental and not the most dependable transmission, especially if you neglect it and don't use the correct Mopar specified fluid. My guess is if it was a fleet car they were dumping the cheapest poo poo possible in it. I've heard horror stories but I never had any issues with mine besides the sensor.
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Dec 6, 2014 04:19
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Anyone who doubts whether Chryco really belongs down on the bottom of any quality comparisons needs only read DasVolk's thread about his Viper. If they can't even build their flagship good enough to keep the engine in one piece for 5000 miles, do you really want to roll the dice on their entry level models?
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Dec 6, 2014 04:47
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HotCanadianChick posted:Anyone who doubts whether Chryco really belongs down on the bottom of any quality comparisons needs only read DasVolk's thread about his Viper. If they can't even build their flagship good enough to keep the engine in one piece for 5000 miles, do you really want to roll the dice on their entry level models? If they actually come through and give him, say, a new one as a replacement, I think they're actually doing quite well. If they jack him around then gently caress 'em.
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Dec 6, 2014 04:51
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I find Chrysler vehicles to be really funny. Like our Dodges at work. We have six mid 00's Caravans each with between 139 and 301k miles. On the oldest almost everything has fallen off the engine at some point, but the engine and transmission keep going on its 200 mile a day route. All the vans are on their original transmission fluid, as the the bolts are all fused to the housing! We were in the process of replacing them with the little RAM vans. Yet every morning they start right up so they keep putting off buying the new vans.
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Dec 6, 2014 07:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Ford got murdered on IQS by MyFordTouch, which I think tells you all you need to know about its value as a survey.
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Dec 6, 2014 17:49
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El Scotch posted:If they actually come through and give him, say, a new one as a replacement, I think they're actually doing quite well. Yes but in the meantime, he's waiting to find out what will happen and also is deprived of the use of the car he's paid $80k+ for. Would you be happy if you bought a new car and ended up being stuck in a loaner/rental? He's still inconvenienced and out the use of his car for however long due to the engine failure.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:09
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HotCanadianChick posted:Yes but in the meantime, he's waiting to find out what will happen and also is deprived of the use of the car he's paid $80k+ for. Would you be happy if you bought a new car and ended up being stuck in a loaner/rental? He's still inconvenienced and out the use of his car for however long due to the engine failure. I would be happy with a loaner or rental if they make good on fixing or replacing things promptly. If they can't manage that then, as I said, gently caress 'em.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:52
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Link to that viper thread ?
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Dec 6, 2014 20:10
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Xguard86 posted:Link to that viper thread ? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3668031
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Dec 6, 2014 20:48
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Welp, looks like the Z06's status as a track monster is officially dead. Here's a report from a new owner after pitting his car against a stock Viper TA in some roll races.quote:Alright guys. Good and bad news?
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Dec 8, 2014 17:59
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Tekne posted:Welp, looks like the Z06's status as a track monster is officially dead. Here's a report from a new owner after pitting his car against a stock Viper TA in some roll races. GT500 had these kinds of problems too. The supercharged Z06 surprised me since it was announced, GM could have just dropped the engine from the Z28 in there and had lower complexity.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:11
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I was thinking that as well. Chevrolet indicated that the original idea was to go with a large NA V8 based off the new LT1, but they couldn't meet EPA requirements. The silly thing is, as you mentioned, they have the Z28's engine. Putting that into a Corvette with the new Z06's brakes, suspension, and aero would've been killer, but then the marketers wouldn't have their "650 HORSEPOWER/TORQUE!" With the regular C7s blowing their engines, there no longer appears to be a good option for people who race their vettes, which is a drat shame when you consider how well the package performs as a whole. They should have used the tried and true LS7.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:28
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Tekne posted:I was thinking that as well. Chevrolet indicated that the original idea was to go with a large NA V8 based off the new LT1, but they couldn't meet EPA requirements. The silly thing is, as you mentioned, they have the Z28's engine. Putting that into a Corvette with the new Z06's brakes, suspension, and aero would've been killer, but then the marketers wouldn't have their "650 HORSEPOWER/TORQUE!" With the regular C7s blowing their engines, there no longer appears to be a good option for people who race their vettes, which is a drat shame when you consider how well the package performs as a whole. They should have used the tried and true LS7. I dont think they could have used the LS7. People would have been mad it wasnt new. And with the power of the base vette getting so high it would have been hard to charge a premium for only 50 HP more. Also I thought the LS7 was considered to only be ok. It drops valves, and has oiling issues at high Gs with out an upgraded sump.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:44
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Yeah, you're probably right about the perception issue from buyers. The LS7 did suffer from those problems in the previous Z06, but I was under the impression that they'd been fixed for the version in the Z28. So far I haven't seen any reports of those in the Camaros.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:52
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Mange Mite posted:I'm not sure what you mean. Didn't MyFordTouch really suck for a while? Like borderline unusable levels of bad? Or is that what you mean? MFT still sucks big balls, but it's not a problem on the lines of an actual mechanical defect.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:18
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It's clunky but even my "I don't want any screens in the car" wife seems to be doing fine with it in the Flex.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:MFT still sucks big balls, but it's not a problem on the lines of an actual mechanical defect. But that survey is for initial quality (not reliability) which includes both manufacturing and design defects. Also according to that guy, when it first came out it was so unreliable it would sometimes crash while driving and make it so you can't control parts of the car. That might not be a mechanical defect but tit's a hell of a defect nonetheless even if it just breaks the radio or HVAC or whatever (I have no idea how much it's actually integrated).
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Dec 8, 2014 23:27
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Tekne posted:Welp, looks like the Z06's status as a track monster is officially dead. Here's a report from a new owner after pitting his car against a stock Viper TA in some roll races. I don't see anything in there that says anything about lap times; seems to be focused solely on drag racing.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:36
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drgitlin posted:I don't see anything in there that says anything about lap times; seems to be focused solely on drag racing.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:49
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At least with the GT500 the brakes gave up before the engine overheated.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:51
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I don't think the C6 ZR1 had these kinds of cooling issues? I think most tests of the Hellcat have found it to be pretty durable, but the Hellcat uses a more expensive twin screw blower that doesn't put out as much heat, an iron block, and is a much larger car with much more space under the hood for cooling. I wish Chrysler and Mazda would merge already so we can all be a big happy family instead of throwing mean red titles at each other. 
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Dec 9, 2014 01:30
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Chevrolet switched to a smaller 1.7L blower for the new Z06. The current theory is that it's working a lot harder than the ZR1 supercharger to make power, and it has to contend with inadequate cooling and/or a very conservative factory tune. I'm interested to see what GM's response will be if this proves to be a widespread problem with the cars.
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Dec 9, 2014 01:44
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Powershift posted:At least with
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Dec 9, 2014 01:44
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Holy crap that's massively disappointing about the Z06 overheating. loving Chevy. Now that the 650 HORSEPOWER/TORQUE folks have their car, bring on the C7 Grand Sport with a slightly hopped up LT1 and Z06 brakes/aero.
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Dec 9, 2014 07:30
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Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers
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Mange Mite posted:But that survey is for initial quality (not reliability) which includes both manufacturing and design defects. Also according to that guy, when it first came out it was so unreliable it would sometimes crash while driving and make it so you can't control parts of the car. That might not be a mechanical defect but tit's a hell of a defect nonetheless even if it just breaks the radio or HVAC or whatever (I have no idea how much it's actually integrated). Grouping manufacturing and design defects together is stupid. They're different problems that require different solutions and have different impacts on the end customer.
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Dec 9, 2014 13:07
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Sadi posted:I dont think they could have used the LS7. People would have been mad it wasnt new. And with the power of the base vette getting so high it would have been hard to charge a premium for only 50 HP more. Also I thought the LS7 was considered to only be ok. It drops valves, and has oiling issues at high Gs with out an upgraded sump. Does the LS7 have direct injection? If not that could squeeze out some more power right? Also, what car has Das Volk had that hasn't broke on him? He had problems with a CTS-V and a Corvette C6 too right?
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Dec 9, 2014 14:14
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Coredump posted:Also, what car has Das Volk had that hasn't broke on him? The M3.  No direct injection, no turbos, mechanical throttle bodies. 
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Dec 9, 2014 14:29
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Throatwarbler posted:The M3. Yeah he's made no bones about his prejudices against American cars, and then he keeps breaking them. I'm starting to think he treats his cars from the US with lack of mechanical empathy vs. the way he treats the German cars he oh so prefers. He also had a Porsche too at one point before the CTS-V I think?
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Dec 9, 2014 14:40
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Throatwarbler posted:The M3.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:23
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I don't know if I would agree with that. You don't drop the kind of coin he dose on cars just to treat them like poo poo. I actually think this is more of a he actually buys high performance cars and drives the poo poo out of them which I applaud. They're not middle aged men garage queens that come out once a week for cars and coffee. He's also seemed to have a string of bad luck with the American cars, which is unfortunate.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:26
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Grouping manufacturing and design defects together is stupid. They're different problems that require different solutions and have different impacts on the end customer. Eh, I'd say it's often hard to separate manufacturing and design defects, and pretty much impossible to expect a consumer in a survey to distinguish between the two. Are, for instance, big panel gaps or bad paint due to poor workmanship or bad design? Hard to say. Maybe their painters and Q/A people are lazy or maybe the paint itself is a bad formulation. If my radio keeps crashing and stops working, or if none of the menus make anysense, all I know is that I would be pissed and think "the radio in this car sucks" and that's all the survey measures. The strength of the JD Power survey is that it's big and covers a lot of people. The somewhat coercive part is the marketing thing where they publish their results to the public in a simple understandable form of a single idiot number which sort of forces automakers to pay attention to them. Also if you're an actual automaker who pays JD Power for their service you get the specific breakdown with a lot more specific information separating the things, too, since the actual survey has hundreds of questions.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:37
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donut posted:It's quite telling that enthusiast cars are quite commonly the most reliable models. The M3, the Z06, the CTS-V, the Miata are all bought by enthusiasts that take care of their cars. Hell, it even works the other way- look at Mini. The Cooper Convertible is definitely not the enthusiast choice, and look at the spread they managed between that and the otherwise mechanically identical hatchback. Well, you also have the Boxster as Porsche's most reliable, and Hyundai's 350hp pony car as their least reliable so it seems to be a combination of factors.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:40
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Twerk from Home posted:Well, you also have the Boxster as Porsche's most reliable, and Hyundai's 350hp pony car as their least reliable so it seems to be a combination of factors. I'd hazard a guess that a lot of this is down to demographics. Cars owned mostly by 18-25 males will probably have the worst outcomes (because they're idiots), those owned by older folks will probably have the best. This is probably why cheaper performance cars like the Gen Coupe and WRX have the worst outcomes.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:44
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Re: C7 Z06 being a two lap wonder, I'm chalking it up to more marketing bullshit about having the highest numbers. The Z06 is an affordable car if you really want one, but as of late there's been all of this dogshit over posting the biggest numbers ever! (unless if it's Nordschleife laptimes, then those are small) I get it that numbers are neat and engineering is great, but I really can't give any less of a poo poo about super/hyper cars and all of the SICK STATS they put down. It's just bench racing fodder, and at the end of the day, kastein can outrun most of them in his Jeep because he isn't scared to drive the dumb thing.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:16
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Mange Mite posted:Eh, I'd say it's often hard to separate manufacturing and design defects, and pretty much impossible to expect a consumer in a survey to distinguish between the two. Are, for instance, big panel gaps or bad paint due to poor workmanship or bad design? Hard to say. Maybe their painters and Q/A people are lazy or maybe the paint itself is a bad formulation. If my radio keeps crashing and stops working, or if none of the menus make anysense, all I know is that I would be pissed and think "the radio in this car sucks" and that's all the survey measures. I am very aware of how the JD Power survey works from an OEM perspective. The methodology is still not particularly useful, in my opinion. It's mostly used as a self-corrective so that senior management can chase better IQS scores that are part of their KPI package.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:44
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Phone posted:Re: C7 Z06 being a two lap wonder, I'm chalking it up to more marketing bullshit about having the highest numbers. The Z06 is an affordable car if you really want one, but as of late there's been all of this dogshit over posting the biggest numbers ever! (unless if it's Nordschleife laptimes, then those are small) So basically a grand sport.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:47
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Phone posted:Re: C7 Z06 being a two lap wonder, I'm chalking it up to more marketing bullshit about having the highest numbers. The Z06 is an affordable car if you really want one, but as of late there's been all of this dogshit over posting the biggest numbers ever! (unless if it's Nordschleife laptimes, then those are small) I have to wonder how much of their difficulties are also due to the current incompetent management at GM which is aggressively anti-performance and anti-product in general.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:53
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eyebeem posted:It's clunky but even my "I don't want any screens in the car" wife seems to be doing fine with it in the Flex. One thing that drives me crazy with newer cars are the huge distracting color screens situated right in the middle of the instrument cluster. Almost every brand seems to do it these days. The current Altima is one of the worst offenders; it makes it needlessly difficult to glance down at your speed (especially at night) when there is a huge bright LCD displaying mostly irrelevant information in the middle of your view.  Oh, and that little avatar of your car isn't a lane departure system or anything. It's just a static image.
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Dec 9, 2014 19:26
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I'm pretty sure on the Altima that I drove you could change what that screen displays. Could have been a higher trim than the base trim, though.
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Dec 9, 2014 19:40
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